A Personally Controversial Decision
- Thread starter TigerClaw
- Start date
i know this may be a simplistic viewpoint, but i wouldn't stay with someone i could not trust. if i felt i needed to spy on them, then the relationship is over anyway, imo.
i wouldn't spy on a "prospective" partner neither because trust is an intergral part of any relationship and to be quite honest, i wouldn't stay with someone who spied on me when i had given them no reason to do so. what if the person finds out? can you really look them in the eye while spying on them? i think if a person feels they need to spy, then they should deal with their own insecuraties before entering any new relationships.
just my opinions.
- kittyinbondage
i wouldn't spy on a "prospective" partner neither because trust is an intergral part of any relationship and to be quite honest, i wouldn't stay with someone who spied on me when i had given them no reason to do so. what if the person finds out? can you really look them in the eye while spying on them? i think if a person feels they need to spy, then they should deal with their own insecuraties before entering any new relationships.
just my opinions.
- kittyinbondage
well, on the flip side of this is guarding your heart. if a person thinks they need to spy for a while to reinforce the idea that not every partner is going to take you for a ride, then go for it. also maybe it's an issue of learning to trust yourself to find compatible partners.
i confess that i have toyed with the idea in the past. i have never done it, but it has been tempting.
i confess that i have toyed with the idea in the past. i have never done it, but it has been tempting.
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oh, in the case of monitoring your kids i am 100% for it. so many crazy people on the internet now that it's best to know who your kids are talking with.
the monitering partners thing is a sticky issue, i think because there isn't one right answer. a person must weight the pros and cons and make a decision based on their own values. to be clear, i don't think those who spy on their partners are bad or anything like that. i am just one doesn't see morals as a black and white issue but a shade of gray.
.... unless we are talking murder. sorry, i hope i made *some* sense.
the monitering partners thing is a sticky issue, i think because there isn't one right answer. a person must weight the pros and cons and make a decision based on their own values. to be clear, i don't think those who spy on their partners are bad or anything like that. i am just one doesn't see morals as a black and white issue but a shade of gray.
.... unless we are talking murder. sorry, i hope i made *some* sense.
RJMasters
workaholic
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Well I will throw this out there TC.
First of all its your network. Its your property. In a very real sense you have the right to maintain control over such property as you see fit.
Just like the TV. I monitor what my kids can and can't watch, I see this as a way to also monitor what or how people are using the system.
I would take a different stance on it, and just make it known openly that this is your house, your network and you will control how it is being used. This way you let all persons know in advance that anything they do on the network or system can and will be monitored.
The problem seems to be in the secretive use of it. "The Spying" on a SO to see if they are cyber cheating or something.
By making it known that the monitoring is being done, you kill the whole spying mentallity, and you also lay out prevention of anyone using it in that way.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
First of all its your network. Its your property. In a very real sense you have the right to maintain control over such property as you see fit.
Just like the TV. I monitor what my kids can and can't watch, I see this as a way to also monitor what or how people are using the system.
I would take a different stance on it, and just make it known openly that this is your house, your network and you will control how it is being used. This way you let all persons know in advance that anything they do on the network or system can and will be monitored.
The problem seems to be in the secretive use of it. "The Spying" on a SO to see if they are cyber cheating or something.
By making it known that the monitoring is being done, you kill the whole spying mentallity, and you also lay out prevention of anyone using it in that way.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I think RJ has a good, solid point. As long as you make it known that the software is there, then it's no longer secret. Also, you're talking about what could be potentially a few to several thousands of dollars of property of yours that you are protecting.
A Desert Rose
Simply Charming Elsewhere
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Add water and egg and stir...
I most definately have mixed feelings about this.
I hate not trusting and not being trusted.
Although, on occassion, I should not be trusted...
aaaaahahahahahhaha.
Okay, that was mostly a joke.
I really don't like the violation of trust in this issue. I do understand the reasons for doing this, however.
I most definately have mixed feelings about this.
I hate not trusting and not being trusted.
Although, on occassion, I should not be trusted...
aaaaahahahahahhaha.
Okay, that was mostly a joke.
I really don't like the violation of trust in this issue. I do understand the reasons for doing this, however.
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catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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I'm with RJ.....it is your right as not only owner of the equipment and resources, but being a Dominant, you are entitled to know what your pyl is doing and where they are going in cyberspace. This does not have to have anything to do with a trust issue but moreso an issue of dominance and interest/protection of the pyl. For us it is not really an issue as he can find things on computers long after they have been deleted, formatted and written over just with his own expertise. He also has the passwords to my PC and all my email accounts as well as sites and forums......to my knowledge he has not used them or checked on me, but if he did I would not have an issue with it, partly because I have nothing to hide, but largely because not only do I see it as his right if he feels the need (and also understand he has been betrayed this way in the past when he didn't suspect anything so didn't check until after it was over), but also because I would love him to check on me, know where and what I was doing.
Catalina
Catalina
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Right or wrong, anyone who has a relationship with you will be impacted by your past experience to some degree. From my perspective, as long as you're open about the software, I see no problem with it being there or being used. As RJ said, it's your network, your property. Just be open about it.
A's Sweet Baby
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Exactly what she said!!catalina_francisco said:I'm with RJ.....it is your right as not only owner of the equipment and resources, but being a Dominant, you are entitled to know what your pyl is doing and where they are going in cyberspace. This does not have to have anything to do with a trust issue but moreso an issue of dominance and interest/protection of the pyl. For us it is not really an issue as he can find things on computers long after they have been deleted, formatted and written over just with his own expertise. He also has the passwords to my PC and all my email accounts as well as sites and forums......to my knowledge he has not used them or checked on me, but if he did I would not have an issue with it, partly because I have nothing to hide, but largely because not only do I see it as his right if he feels the need (and also understand he has been betrayed this way in the past when he didn't suspect anything so didn't check until after it was over), but also because I would love him to check on me, know where and what I was doing.
Catalina
Catalina, i am not trying to stalk you, but i keep coming into threads to post something but you have already said it!!
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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A's Sweet Baby said:Exactly what she said!!
Catalina, i am not trying to stalk you, but i keep coming into threads to post something but you have already said it!!
Sorry.Catalina
snowy ciara
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One of the things that bugged me in this was the "spying" attitude. Keeping it a secret is what would make it wrong to me. If you're going to do this, tell her. Keeping it a secret is just as deceitful as what she may potentially do behind your back. That way, if she has a problem with it, you can discuss it and possibly negotiate. Think of it as a hard limit for you, if you must. If the potential of being followed about the Internet is going to bother her, than she'll say no. I realize this may blow the relationship out of the water, but if you can't agree about this, and you're both willing to let it be a deal breaker, you've no-one to blame but yourselves. If she, like Catalina, is okay with it and sees it as another way to express a D/s relationship, for for it!
And what do you do if someone in your network needs to have some personal info protected? Complete openness is a lovely ideal but some people (especially those who work at home) may have what's known as "proprietary information" on their system. You don't have a need or a right to that info. I know of a writer who's computer is networked so she can research the net as she works. This is personal propriety information that could get out if her husband had the same security protocols as you. I"m sure he wouldn't need to look into this, but if he did and something slipped, getting it out into the public before it needed to be revealed could have repercussions her work and livelihood. I know one person who works in personal security and works from home. A security "net" on his system could get anyone with access to that info fired, or sued or charged with a crime. Obviously, if none of these scenarios apply to you and your relationship, you don't have to worry about it.
I do have a lot of "proprietary info" on my system. A novel that I'd prefer no one sees 'til I'm ready. Several papers for various classes. I'd not mind a PYL seeing them after they're turned in and the danger of plagiarism has passed, but until then, it's my eyes only, please! (Yes, the evil ex did this with one paper. The only thing that saved my ass was that he didn't re-write and change a few personal examples. It was an article on pain management and the instructor questioned how a pain killer for a muscle tear would effect a male's PMS issues...)
Now then, I would have a problem with what you're thinking of doing. If you're not going to trust me to act like a grownup then you don't need me. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's the way I feel. I have never fucked around cyber or otherwise when I was dating someone and I'm not going to start now. This leads me to my next point.
The other thing that really bugs is that if you do this, you'll be letting your last relationship affect this one. Don't punish the next person because the last one hurt you. They're not the same people and it's not fair to your next pyl. I know that life's not fair and sometimes you just have to deal with it, but imho, we have a moral responsibility to try to clean things up a little. It's not fair that you got hurt, especially since you're a nice guy and didn't deserve it. But when life screws a person over, is it necessary to mess with the next one. I know you have a personal responsibility to protect your heart and soul, but do you need to do it at the expense of another person? I guess you just need to sit down and see what sort of protection your heart needs.
Hee. Upon re-reading I realized something funny. You're thinking of utilizing the software to protect yourself because you got burned and I'm saying no way in hell will I let anyone that deep into my computer because I got burned. Looks like it all boils down to an honest negotiation of limits.
And what do you do if someone in your network needs to have some personal info protected? Complete openness is a lovely ideal but some people (especially those who work at home) may have what's known as "proprietary information" on their system. You don't have a need or a right to that info. I know of a writer who's computer is networked so she can research the net as she works. This is personal propriety information that could get out if her husband had the same security protocols as you. I"m sure he wouldn't need to look into this, but if he did and something slipped, getting it out into the public before it needed to be revealed could have repercussions her work and livelihood. I know one person who works in personal security and works from home. A security "net" on his system could get anyone with access to that info fired, or sued or charged with a crime. Obviously, if none of these scenarios apply to you and your relationship, you don't have to worry about it.
I do have a lot of "proprietary info" on my system. A novel that I'd prefer no one sees 'til I'm ready. Several papers for various classes. I'd not mind a PYL seeing them after they're turned in and the danger of plagiarism has passed, but until then, it's my eyes only, please! (Yes, the evil ex did this with one paper. The only thing that saved my ass was that he didn't re-write and change a few personal examples. It was an article on pain management and the instructor questioned how a pain killer for a muscle tear would effect a male's PMS issues...)
Now then, I would have a problem with what you're thinking of doing. If you're not going to trust me to act like a grownup then you don't need me. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's the way I feel. I have never fucked around cyber or otherwise when I was dating someone and I'm not going to start now. This leads me to my next point.
The other thing that really bugs is that if you do this, you'll be letting your last relationship affect this one. Don't punish the next person because the last one hurt you. They're not the same people and it's not fair to your next pyl. I know that life's not fair and sometimes you just have to deal with it, but imho, we have a moral responsibility to try to clean things up a little. It's not fair that you got hurt, especially since you're a nice guy and didn't deserve it. But when life screws a person over, is it necessary to mess with the next one. I know you have a personal responsibility to protect your heart and soul, but do you need to do it at the expense of another person? I guess you just need to sit down and see what sort of protection your heart needs.
Hee. Upon re-reading I realized something funny. You're thinking of utilizing the software to protect yourself because you got burned and I'm saying no way in hell will I let anyone that deep into my computer because I got burned. Looks like it all boils down to an honest negotiation of limits.
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TigerClaw
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snowy ciara said:One of the things that bugged me in this was the "spying" attitude. Keeping it a secret is what would make it wrong to me. If you're going to do this, tell her. Keeping it a secret is just as deceitful as what she may potentially do behind your back. That way, if she has a problem with it, you can discuss it and possibly negotiate. Think of it as a hard limit for you, if you must. If the potential of being followed about the Internet is going to bother her, than she'll say no. I realize this may blow the relationship out of the water, but if you can't agree about this, and you're both willing to let it be a deal breaker, you've no-one to blame but yourselves. If she, like Catalina, is okay with it and sees it as another way to express a D/s relationship, for for it!
Dont worry about blowing a relationship out of the water for me. That was destroyed long ago and means nothing to me now. I have no intention of using this with out making it known I have it. If a friend, new acquaintance, who does not have permission to be on my network accesses it while I am out of the room, I feel it whatever I find out is their problem. They should not have been on it in the first place.
I do agree with most everyone here that if I keep it and dont make it known to my SO it is underhanded.
And what do you do if someone in your network needs to have some personal info protected? Complete openness is a lovely ideal but some people (especially those who work at home) may have what's known as "proprietary information" on their system. You don't have a need or a right to that info. I know of a writer who's computer is networked so she can research the net as she works. This is personal propriety information that could get out if her husband had the same security protocols as you. I"m sure he wouldn't need to look into this, but if he did and something slipped, getting it out into the public before it needed to be revealed could have repercussions her work and livelihood. I know one person who works in personal security and works from home. A security "net" on his system could get anyone with access to that info fired, or sued or charged with a crime. Obviously, if none of these scenarios apply to you and your relationship, you don't have to worry about it.
Good Point here. If I was married and I could not trust my Wife with work information on our personal network I would wonder why I am married to her. If the relationship is crumbling I would make sure it stayed on a work computer or protection be put on it. Once it gets to this point is the relationship saveable though?
I can not imagine security, government info being allowed at home or on a personal environment. Even my job tries to keep information on company equipment.
Your example would have to be discussed in a relationship. I would be hard pressed to get involved with someone that needed that kind of privacy now.
I do have a lot of "proprietary info" on my system. A novel that I'd prefer no one sees 'til I'm ready. Several papers for various classes. I'd not mind a PYL seeing them after they're turned in and the danger of plagiarism has passed, but until then, it's my eyes only, please! (Yes, the evil ex did this with one paper. The only thing that saved my ass was that he didn't re-write and change a few personal examples. It was an article on pain management and the instructor questioned how a pain killer for a muscle tear would effect a male's PMS issues...)
Im sorry. You have a very good point here. This is why discussion is great. It makes you (me) question what is right, wrong, needs to be reevaluated.
Now then, I would have a problem with what you're thinking of doing. If you're not going to trust me to act like a grownup then you don't need me. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's the way I feel. I have never fucked around cyber or otherwise when I was dating someone and I'm not going to start now. This leads me to my next point.No it is not harsh. In any relationship there are limits. What I get out of this is integrity. What is the integrity or fiber of the person?
The other thing that really bugs is that if you do this, you'll be letting your last relationship affect this one. Don't punish the next person because the last one hurt you. They're not the same people and it's not fair to your next pyl. I know that life's not fair and sometimes you just have to deal with it, but imho, we have a moral responsibility to try to clean things up a little. It's not fair that you got hurt, especially since you're a nice guy and didn't deserve it. But when life screws a person over, is it necessary to mess with the next one. I know you have a personal responsibility to protect your heart and soul, but do you need to do it at the expense of another person? I guess you just need to sit down and see what sort of protection your heart needs.
Hee. Upon re-reading I realized something funny. You're thinking of utilizing the software to protect yourself because you got burned and I'm saying no way in hell will I let anyone that deep into my computer because I got burned. Looks like it all boils down to an honest negotiation of limits.
It boils down to really getting to know the person. I am taking the route of becoming good friends first. When do you turn a friendship into a romantic adventure? Well, I thought I had done that. I am being more cautious now because of it. (hopefully this is a good thing from that experience.) As much as I dont want to get hurt I dont want the new woman to get hurt either. If she is in my life, she is someone very special to me. I want to be sure she understands that this time.
