A not very novel question about writing them

[Rumple Foreskin]

Colly's thread about how best to post her novel, got me to wondering. If and when you write a novel or novella, what sort of system do you use for saving your peerless prose?

Most of my chapters run about 3-5 thousand words. I store each one in its own file. This seems to make the writing, and especially the rewriting, easier. On the downside, the always tedious task of printing a hard copy is even slower when doing it chapter-by-chapter than when the entire ms has been saved on a one doc file.

Anyone use a different system or have any suggestions?

Rumple Foreskin

 

[R. Richard]

Rumple:
I write my novels in chapter form, one chapter to a file. When I have the chapters in shape, I collect the chapters, in order of course, in a single file. I then check for continuity in the single file.

As you point out, dealing with a single file makes printing easier. Also, at least most of the publishers want just a single file.

JMHO.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

This is a highly unqualified response, but the two novels I've written came about sort of fast and furious. Thus, I didn't spend much time assigning chapters to things unless it seemed a very obvious shift in the story/setting/mood/time. I rather like it better to have one giant word document that is continuous than to have twenty or thirty seperate folders for chapters. My biggest reason for not fussing with chapters is that the flow throughout both stories is damn-near seamless. I never ran into problems with confusing timelines or character histories, etc. Anyway, that's how I do it. Later on I read through for a first edit and put temporary red-tag chapters where they seem natural and continually readdress it through the editing process. Some chapters wind up really short, while others are much longer, but the sense in how the separation got to be there is solid and hasn't thrown anyone yet, so I'm sticking to it.

~lucky

 

[Alex756]

I'm a one document type myself. For a bit I had my latest novel in 2 files and it annoyed me to no end. With the bigger files, I am paranoid and do have a backup seperate from the working copy though.

The one file has made things easier when I decide to change something or use a placeholder, like XXX YYY is easy to replace with Bob Smith when its all one document.

~Alex

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I wrote mine as one long story. No discernable breaks. Although it does lend itself to breaks, I'm afraid i did not try to correlate the logical character breaks with the even more logical locational breaks.

 

[oggbashan]

I keep a set of chapters in a folder together with a cumulative file.

If a chapter gets edited, I delete that part from the cumulative file and replace completely.

I use version controls - very simple Chap01ver01, 02, 03 and fnl (final) followed by 'edit01, 02 etc. for each chapter and then Cumul01, 02, 03 and fnl followed by edit01...

Each Chapter starts with the version title and date and ends with what has been changed.

When ready to be posted I strip the version details off and save as 'Chap01lit' etc.

Hope that helps.

Og

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

One big long Word doc, spit it out fast, then go back after and clean up, reshuffle, subdivide, make parts, chapters and sections, whatever. All still in one doc.

I tend to keep all my correspondance and professional work in big giant word docs, too - they get to be hundreds of pages. If I am looking for a letter I wrote three years ago I can always remember some keyword, then just use the "find and replace" tool to go right to it. If there are 100 letters in 100 files it's a lot harder.

 

[NoJo]

Here's my way: Make a single document (back it up often to another hard drive or machine -- emailing it to yourself is good).

Now, use Word's outlining feature! This is so invaluable I couldn't work without it any more, and helps you dart back and forth as you structure the story.

Use Heading 1 for the title, Heading 2 for the chapters, and -- here's the trick, use Heading 3 for the breaks in the story or key plot points, which may occur within chapters, or they may coincide with chapter boundaries. Then when you view the outline of the document in the Document Outline panel in word, you're actually looking at the structure, as a nice neat indented list.

 

[impressive]

Here's my way: Make a single document (back it up often to another hard drive or machine -- emailing it to yourself is good).

Now, use Word's outlining feature! This is so invaluable I couldn't work without it any more, and helps you dart back and forth as you structure the story.

Use Heading 1 for the title, Heading 2 for the chapters, and -- here's the trick, use Heading 3 for the breaks in the story or key plot points, which may occur within chapters, or they may coincide with chapter boundaries. Then when you view the outline of the document in the Document Outline panel in word, you're actually looking at the structure, as a nice neat indented list.

You ARE the FlyLady, aren't you?

 

[NoJo]

You ARE the FlyLady, aren't you?

It was the "nice neat indented list" that gave it away, wasn't it?

 

[CowboyPride]

A piece of advice.

If you are using Microsoft Winblows (I hate microsoft) you can use the ctrl key to highlight multiple documents and then right-click on any of them and choose print and it will print all the documents. Just a quick little Lesson in the world of computers.

On that note, I have to say that I like story multiple different chapters in different word docs, this makes it easier to jump to particular chapter and start writing or editing.

By the way. The box said windows 95 or better... So I installed Linux... (LOL, LMAO) a little geek humor there.

 

[sophia jane]

If you are using Microsoft Winblows (I hate microsoft) you can use the ctrl key to highlight multiple documents and then right-click on any of them and choose print and it will print all the documents. Just a quick little Lesson in the world of computers.

On that note, I have to say that I like story multiple different chapters in different word docs, this makes it easier to jump to particular chapter and start writing or editing.

By the way. The box said windows 95 or better... So I installed Linux... (LOL, LMAO) a little geek humor there.

I didn't know you could do that, and even though I feel really dumb for not knowing, I'm very glad you mentioned it!

 

[Weird Harold]

Here's my way: Make a single document (back it up often to another hard drive or machine -- emailing it to yourself is good).

Now, use Word's outlining feature! This is so invaluable I couldn't work without it any more, and helps you dart back and forth as you structure the story.

I haven't really explored it much, but Word and WordPerfect both have a "Master Document" feature that keeps Chapters in separate files, but threats them as a single coherent document.

What little I've experimented with the Master Document in Word suggests that any global operation in the Master document -- like a global find & replace to change a character's name or choosing "Replace all" in the spell check -- works on all the separate chapters at once.

The navigation and organization of chapters within the master document is much like the Outline function.

That said, my one true attempt at a novel length story (100k+ words) is one single huge file because I didn't appreciate the benefit of using a master document or chapter breaks when I wrote it -- it wasn't even intended as a novel length story when I started it, which is why it is an uneditible piece of garbage that will never see the light of publication.

 

[NoJo]

The "Master Document" feature is useful when more than one author is collaborating on a document (I used it for user manuals). This makes the main document into a sort of ring-binder, into which the sections are linked.

I have a problem with structure -- I usually have too many ideas that I want to put into the story, so that it gets too full and cluttered. So I rely on document structuring tools a lot when I write. I think a writer who had less of a problem with story structure wouldn't require, or even know about, many of Word's structuring tools.

When writing screenplays, I use the industry standard program, "Final Draft". It's not really much good for anything except screenplays. After having used Final Draft for years, I appreciate the flexibility and reliability of MS Word!

My most plotted story for Literotica, "A Woman of Edo", is just nine thousand words long. It breaks naturally into six sections. I submitted it in three chapters, two sections to a chapter. "A Woman of Edo" is constructed along the lines of a thriller, through progressive revelation -- this means that the chronological events of the story are not the same as the tale as it unfolds.

I really like well-plotted stories, but I don't really think they have much place in erotica.

 

[NoJo]

...I like story multiple different chapters in different word docs, this makes it easier to jump to particular chapter and start writing or editing.

This is fine if the chapters are reasonably self-contained. But for some types of story it becomes inconvenient because changes to one chapter can mean rewrites in other chapters.

Most multi-chapter stories here are like a TV series (e.g. Friends, LA Law), where each chapter is a standalone episode which can be read more or less in isolation.

A few stories here are like a TV serial, where a somewhat aimless storyline is continued, with the writer more or less making it up as he goes along. Nothing wrong with that, Dickens did it to great effect.

Both of these story types are well suited to Literotica.

 

[elsol]

Single chapter plain text files...

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Weird Harold]

Single chapter plain text files...

That reminds me that a clear distinction should be made in how stories are written and edited and how they're prepared for submission.

I use as many of MS Word's capabilitie as I can for composing and editing stories, but the final step is always conversion to Text format with HTML tags for italics, bold, and formatting and with special characters stripped out to minimize the potential problems in converting the submission to Lit's standard formatting

Since I seldom write anything that isn't eventually going to wind up at Lit, I have MS Word's "NORMAL.DOT" template configured to minimize the number of changes I have to make to get a clean conversion to Text format.

 

[Guest]

After I finish a chapter on a novel, I edit it then save it in chapter form. I then copy paste it to one big file with the rest of the chapters. This way, I can use both copies if I need to rewrite or fix something. And when it comes time for submitting, I have both chapter form if they only want three chapters or I can do the entire thing...

 

[Boota]

When I start a novel I title a folder with the working title. Inside that I make about 20 chapter folders. Inside each chapter folder I write in sections. Most of my chapters are broken into 3-7 sections, depending on how long the "idea" of the scene is. When I'm finished I put all the sections into one chapter file, then copy and paste the chapter file to a complete file. I back up each individual chapter on it's own disc.

As far as planning and keeping track of what I've done, I still use paper. I have a notebook beside my writing computer with all the important character notes. I have a giant sketch pad with a flow chart for the direction the story is supposed to take. I leave a lot of holes in the chart so that I can be spontaneous and not totally disrupt the plan. The last chapter I wrote wasn't in the plan, but I needed it there and it fits within the plan. Knowing where I am going is of major importance to me. If I need some foreshadowing to highlight an event, it's in the chart.

That said, I have relatively few notes compared to a lot of authors I've spoken with. I still hang by my toes quite a bit.

 

[Liar]

Here's my way: Make a single document (back it up often to another hard drive or machine -- emailing it to yourself is good).

Now, use Word's outlining feature! This is so invaluable I couldn't work without it any more, and helps you dart back and forth as you structure the story.

Use Heading 1 for the title, Heading 2 for the chapters, and -- here's the trick, use Heading 3 for the breaks in the story or key plot points, which may occur within chapters, or they may coincide with chapter boundaries. Then when you view the outline of the document in the Document Outline panel in word, you're actually looking at the structure, as a nice neat indented list.

You da man, Joe.

I've used the outlining, but only to make a good index for chapter navigation. I'll definitely look into sub-headers now.

That one file, plus two more is what I usually work with. One dump file for snippets and scenes that I have taken out or not yet decided where to put, and one meta file, with notes, character descriptions, synopsis and so on.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

The "Master Document" feature is useful when more than one author is collaborating on a document (I used it for user manuals). This makes the main document into a sort of ring-binder, into which the sections are linked.

I have a problem with structure -- I usually have too many ideas that I want to put into the story, so that it gets too full and cluttered. So I rely on document structuring tools a lot when I write. I think a writer who had less of a problem with story structure wouldn't require, or even know about, many of Word's structuring tools.

I know zero about Word's structuring tools, and haven't run into many problems as far as keeping things organized. That said, I'm about to dive into one of my novels and attempt to edit it into something that could be published. It's been said that the master document feature is good for breaking things down during writing but how is it for organizing a mammoth piece of work that already exists?

Also, does anyone know off hand what the standard word count (max & min) is for a novel? I thought it was between 100K & 150K. Is this true?

Thanks.

~lucky

 

[Boota]

I've heard 80,000 words is a novel. Above 150,000 is considered an epic.

I accidentally wrote an epic comedy if those standards are correct.

 

[NoJo]

I know zero about Word's structuring tools, and haven't run into many problems as far as keeping things organized. That said, I'm about to dive into one of my novels and attempt to edit it into something that could be published. It's been said that the master document feature is good for breaking things down during writing but how is it for organizing a mammoth piece of work that already exists?

Also, does anyone know off hand what the standard word count (max & min) is for a novel? I thought it was between 100K & 150K. Is this true?

Thanks.

~lucky

I use the BBC's guidelines:

Here's their publishing guidelines for a novel, which, if you follow them, should satisfy most publishers: (but you'll have to use US Letter paper rather than A4)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/scriptsmart/novel.pdf

A novel is between 200 and 400 pages, which at 250 words per page is between 50,000 and 100,000 words approx.

EDIT: For printing, I recommend getting hold of the "Courier Final Draft" font, which prints very black and makes the manuscript more readable.