A Message From Britain

[Lee Chambers]

The problem in this case is that the girl apparently did not say no, or any variation thereof, meaning that this is 'merely' a case of consitutional rape, as it involves a child under 13. The comments about 'provocative' dressing were apparently more to do with whether the men were justified in thinking she was over 16 (the age of consent in the UK) than in whether the girl was 'asking' to be violently raped.

Please note my use of the word 'apparently'... all I know is from what I've read online and I'm trying to take a balanced view, rather than the emotive one I'm inclined to which goes something like "castrate the bastards with a blunt spoon"...

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If that's the case, I still find it hard to believe that this judge would only hand out a four month sentence. Even in cases where sex between an adult and a minor is "consensual", the courts have generally handed out harsh penalties for it.

 

[Vermilion]

If that's the case, I still find it hard to believe that this judge would only hand out a four month sentence. Even in cases where sex between an adult and a minor is "consensual", the courts have generally handed out harsh penalties for it.

I believe that 4 months is only part of the sentence... I think time served has been deducted from the final sentencing... This page seems to have a bit more info about the case, if you're interested.

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ETA: having read that again myself it appears he only received a 9 month sentence in total, which I still feel is too little, though I shouldn't imagine the other inmates would make it an easy sentence for him, however long...

 

[Lisa Denton]

I believe that 4 months is only part of the sentence... I think time served has been deducted from the final sentencing... This page seems to have a bit more info about the case, if you're interested.

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ETA: having read that again myself it appears he only received a 9 month sentence in total, which I still feel is too little, though I shouldn't imagine the other inmates would make it an easy sentence for him, however long...

Yes, the feelings of other inmates towards those accused of child sexual assault are well known, but that is why we taxpayers pay extra to provide them with extra security and solitary recreation and shower rooms (in case they drop the soap and bend over to pick it up)

And my feelings mirror yours about the blunt spoon castration rehabilitation.

That judge surely knows more than I about this case, but cannot be excused because the defence of "she wanted it" or the defence of "she looked older" has never been used in a child sexual assault.

And there are other questions, like if she is cared for by the state was she on a regularly schelduled "go get fucked in the park" outing. I mean, shouldn't an outing like that be supervised by an adult?

Those people responsible for putting the right judge in the right place over there need to realize that after his last sentence of buying a sexual assault victim a bicycle and now this, they will need to answer for thier inaction when he orders a child who has been raped to be stoned to death.

Judging the victim to be guilty just doesn't work with a 10 year old, you and I know it, this judge needs to be asked "if this girl had asked these men to kill her would they be innocent of murder as well?"

JMO

See ya, Lisa

 

[R. Richard]

Judging the victim to be guilty just doesn't work with a 10 year old, you and I know it, this judge needs to be asked "if this girl had asked these men to kill her would they be innocent of murder as well?"

JMO

You have hit upon the key point in this matter. The 10-year-old girl obviously has problems. She can't run her life by herself. The law does provide for adult supervision of such minor children.

The adults who are responsible for supervising the child have failed, badly. They need to be disciplined. I suspect that the entired system is broken and needs to be fixed, now!

It has been stated, in the article posted, that it was not a case of violent rape. Really? You are a 10-year-old girl. You are in the company of adult men. You get lured to their residence. You, the 10-year-old girl are solicited for sex. You, the 10-year-old girl, now can decide to have sex with the adult men or you can refuse and possibly be beaten and raped, maybe killed. What do you, the 10-year-old girl do? [What, you decide to have 'consensual sex?' How could you, you filthy cow!"]

I have no idea how they handle the matter in Britain. Here, amongst the colonials young men have inculcated the phrase, "15 will get you 20!" [Sex with a 15-year-old will get you 20 years in the slammer.]

Yes, I have seen underage girls who looked 'old enough.' However, if you talk to one of them for ten minutes, you can quickly determine that she is underage. Ten minutes or 20 years, the choice is yours.

JMHO.

 

[Vermilion]

You have hit upon the key point in this matter. The 10-year-old girl obviously has problems. She can't run her life by herself. The law does provide for adult supervision of such minor children.

The adults who are responsible for supervising the child have failed, badly. They need to be disciplined. I suspect that the entired system is broken and needs to be fixed, now!

It has been stated, in the article posted, that it was not a case of violent rape. Really? You are a 10-year-old girl. You are in the company of adult men. You get lured to their residence. You, the 10-year-old girl are solicited for sex. You, the 10-year-old girl, now can decide to have sex with the adult men or you can refuse and possibly be beaten and raped, maybe killed. What do you, the 10-year-old girl do? [What, you decide to have 'consensual sex?' How could you, you filthy cow!"]

I have no idea how they handle the matter in Britain. Here, amongst the colonials young men have inculcated the phrase, "15 will get you 20!" [Sex with a 15-year-old will get you 20 years in the slammer.]

Yes, I have seen underage girls who looked 'old enough.' However, if you talk to one of them for ten minutes, you can quickly determine that she is underage. Ten minutes or 20 years, the choice is yours.

JMHO.

a) apparently *she* propositioned *them* in the park, not when in a vulnerable position trapped in their house, but

b) I totally agree with you, 2 minutes of chat would easily have revealed she was very much younger than 16, no matter how she looked.

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[TheeGoatPig]

I turned down a girl who was "around 15" when I was 24. The moment I found out that she was under 18 my mind just shut off to her. I still got her number, and still have it somewhere, but I would never call it.

 

[Lisa Denton]

I turned down a girl who was "around 15" when I was 24. The moment I found out that she was under 18 my mind just shut off to her. I still got her number, and still have it somewhere, but I would never call it.

Well, if you keep it long enough then its ok to call.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Well, if you keep it long enough then its ok to call.

yeah... And what are the chances of her even remembering me?

 

[elsol]

Maybe it's me... but exactly how much makeup does a 10 year old need to be wearing to look 16?

I've seen a lot of 10 year old girls and 16 year old girls... and hmmm, noooo, makeup doesn't quite get them there.

 

[angela146]

Maybe it's me... but exactly how much makeup does a 10 year old need to be wearing to look 16?

Actually, it is not easy to tell in some cases. *However* that's no excuse (as I will discuss at the end of the post).

It isn't just a matter of makeup. It's a matter of physical maturity and emotional history. In fact, girls (and boys) who have been abused or who are from broken homes often tend to be more "worldly" because they have had to cope with abusive adults. They learn adult ways early as a matter of self-defense.

Physically, it isn't difficult to imagine. I was one of those girls who looked like a woman at an early age. When I was 10, I was tall, busty and curvy (34C on top). However, I was awkward in my body and extremely self-conscious with all of the attention focused on me. *And* I was still quite innocent.

A girl who has been molested repeatedly from an early age and/or who has no effective parents to guide/protect her can easily have enough experience to be able to pull it off. If the only positive attention she has ever had is from being fucked (by a father/brother/step-father/uncle perhaps), she may crave it and she may have plenty of practise.

I've seen a lot of 10 year old girls and 16 year old girls... and hmmm, noooo, makeup doesn't quite get them there.

Ah, and there is part of the problem. If you have seen "plenty" of ten year old and sixteen year old girls, then you know what they look like. You have a reference point.

A man who doesn't spend much time around people younger than himself has only his (faded) memories to guide him, memories that are colored by his perceptions from his younger self. Just as some ten-year-olds can look and act much older than their ages, many twentyfour-year-olds can be very inexperienced.

Having said all of this, I agree that it was *still* the men's responsibility to determine her age (i.e. "card" her). An adult (man or woman) *cannot* rely on physical appearance *nor* can he/she rely on "ten minutes of conversation" to know the difference. The kids who are most vulnerable are also the ones who are best at faking it.

 

[Lee Chambers]

That judge surely knows more than I about this case, but cannot be excused because the defence of "she wanted it" or the defence of "she looked older" has never been used in a child sexual assault.

Just as a side note, I found the information I was looking for about that rape case in the U.S. that happened back in 1983. In '87 they made a movie about it called The Accused. Here's a link to the basic run down of what took place.

The Accused - Nostalgia Central

The main point was that the rapists in this case were charged with "reckless endangerment" rather than rape. The reason for this was that the victim had a questionable background, had been drinking and flirting, and the concern and general view was that she got what she deserved for acting the way she did. It's terrible and disgusting that there are parallels in the case of this ten year old girl with the case featured in the movie.

 

[Lee Chambers]

That judge surely knows more than I about this case, but cannot be excused because the defence of "she wanted it" or the defence of "she looked older" has never been used in a child sexual assault.

Just as a side note, I found the information I was looking for about that rape case in the U.S. that happened back in 1983. In '87 they made a movie about it called The Accused. Here's a link to the basic run down of what took place.

The Accused - Nostalgia Central

The main point was that the rapists in this case were charged with "reckless endangerment" rather than rape. The reason for this was that the victim had a questionable background, had been drinking and flirting, and the concern and general view was that she got what she deserved for acting the way she did. It's terrible and disgusting that there are parallels in the case of this ten year old girl with the case featured in the movie.

 

[ishtat]

One interesting obsevation that can be made with respect to this case is the enormous difference in the attitude to punishment between the USA and Britain. Statistics illustrate the point:-

Britain population 60 Million - prisoners doing time 81,000

USA population 300 Million - prisoners doing time 2,000,000

Ok, I know that their are numerous other factors,levels of crime etc but there can be now doubt that American society routinely accepts levels and lenghts of incarceration that historically have only occurred before in totalitarian regimes.
Britain, incidentally has far more prisoners in jail than any other European country whether calculated as a % of population or in absolute terms. About double the French and German rates for examples

So far as this particular case is concerned I think that Vermillion has put the point of view from the UK superbly, but overall I am much more interested in why an advanced nation like the USA has retained a punishment regime of mediaeval savagery and that the society seems happy with it.

 

[kendo1]

The percentage of rape cases ending in conviction are interesting.

In Scotland the average figure is 1%. In Edinburgh, !.5% of the reported 200 cases ended in conviction - three men.

I find it surprising that the other 197 cases of alleged rape were decided to be fabricated or consensual.

And then, of course, there is the rest of the country.

 

[TheEarl]

Maybe it's me... but exactly how much makeup does a 10 year old need to be wearing to look 16?

I've seen a lot of 10 year old girls and 16 year old girls... and hmmm, noooo, makeup doesn't quite get them there.

I used to work as a lifeguard at a holiday park a few years ago and it was a common occurence for us to be chatted up by teenage girls. They were bored, we were there, it happened. One of my coworkers prided himself on pulling girls and taking them back to his caravan for a bit of fun and had racked up a fair count before meeting a particular girl.

She said she was 19, but quite blatantly wasn't. She looked like an adult woman (very well developed), but we all thought she was 16-17 or so and lying to make herself seem older. My friend got talking to her, one thing led to another and she led him back to her caravan. After the deed, she told him that she was 12. Then showed him her passport when he didn't believe her.

He came back to work absolutely ashen.

Sometimes, young girls are sexually and personally precocious. I'm not excusing these people and I won't take an opinion either way without knowing more, but I know for a fact that it is possible to honestly believe a 12 y/o is 17, even after conversation and friendship. I wouldn't say it was impossible to have a 10 y/o who could convincingly act as though she was 16.

The Earl

 

[R. Richard]

One interesting obsevation that can be made with respect to this case is the enormous difference in the attitude to punishment between the USA and Britain. Statistics illustrate the point:-

Britain population 60 Million - prisoners doing time 81,000

USA population 300 Million - prisoners doing time 2,000,000

Ok, I know that their are numerous other factors,levels of crime etc but there can be now doubt that American society routinely accepts levels and lenghts of incarceration that historically have only occurred before in totalitarian regimes.
Britain, incidentally has far more prisoners in jail than any other European country whether calculated as a % of population or in absolute terms. About double the French and German rates for examples

So far as this particular case is concerned I think that Vermillion has put the point of view from the UK superbly, but overall I am much more interested in why an advanced nation like the USA has retained a punishment regime of mediaeval savagery and that the society seems happy with it.

You live in the Isle of Man. I would presume that you don't have a lot of teenage gangs in the Isle of Man. We do in the US. Said teenage gangs routinely do things like drive by shootings. [One gang will drive a shooter by members of another gang and shoot them down.] This is usually not too bad, because they are only killing each other and a few unlucky bystanders. However, the same teenagers get older and they are used to murder as a routine event. In order to support the quasi-military lifestyle, the gang people deal drugs. Deal drugs, go to prison. [The shooters are alnost always 15-year-olds. A 15-year-old normally gets about 90 days in juvie for what would be an adult murder.

 

[BlackShanglan]

So far as this particular case is concerned I think that Vermillion has put the point of view from the UK superbly, but overall I am much more interested in why an advanced nation like the USA has retained a punishment regime of mediaeval savagery and that the society seems happy with it.

I suppose it's a matter of deciding what you'd like to be unhappy with.

I'd be equally unhappy with having the highest rate of assault in industrialized countries (Scotland, with England and Wales lumped together coming a close runner-up).

I'd be unhappy being burglarized by three men who between them had over 60 convictions but were still not in prison (England - notoriously shot by a farmer who lay in wait for them).

I'd be unhappy if the police had a videotape of the man who stole my entire Christmas shopping run, knew him by sight, and knew exactly where he lived, but begged off because they were unable even to approach the encampment without body armor despite knowing that its inhabitants were responsible for dozens of crimes (England - a relative was the victim).

I'd be unhappy being told that my local judiciary system had decided to stop imprisoning people for the crime of burglary, despite it occuring at record rates (England).

I'd be unhappy if my country's foremost criminal unit (Scotland Yard) produced a report indicating that drugs or alcohol were closely involved in 80% of crime, and that for each such crime detected and solved, the perpetrator had committed an average of eleven other crimes, but decided that controlling the flow of those substances wasn't a strong priority for law enforcement.

On the whole, I'm willing to be unhappy that so many people choose to commit crimes and suffer the penalty. It's balanced by my sense of comfort in knowing that the local police seem to be doing well at catching them.

Shanglan

 

[R. Richard]

I suppose it's a matter of deciding what you'd like to be unhappy with.

I'd be equally unhappy with having the highest rate of assault in industrialized countries (Scotland, with England and Wales lumped together coming a close runner-up).

I'd be unhappy being burglarized by three men who between them had over 60 convictions but were still not in prison (England - notoriously shot by a farmer who lay in wait for them).

I'd be unhappy if the police had a videotape of the man who stole my entire Christmas shopping run, knew him by sight, and knew exactly where he lived, but begged off because they were unable even to approach the encampment without body armor despite knowing that its inhabitants were responsible for dozens of crimes (England - a relative was the victim).

I'd be unhappy being told that my local judiciary system had decided to stop imprisoning people for the crime of burglary, despite it occuring at record rates (England).

I'd be unhappy if my country's foremost criminal unit (Scotland Yard) produced a report indicating that drugs or alcohol were closely involved in 80% of crime, and that for each such crime detected and solved, the perpetrator had committed an average of eleven other crimes, but decided that controlling the flow of those substances wasn't a strong priority for law enforcement.

On the whole, I'm willing to be unhappy that so many people choose to commit crimes and suffer the penalty. It's balanced by my sense of comfort in knowing that the local police seem to be doing well at catching them.

Shanglan

You pay your money and the fuzz make your choice for you.

 

[Lisa Denton]

One interesting obsevation that can be made with respect to this case is the enormous difference in the attitude to punishment between the USA and Britain. Statistics illustrate the point:-

Britain population 60 Million - prisoners doing time 81,000

USA population 300 Million - prisoners doing time 2,000,000

Ok, I know that their are numerous other factors,levels of crime etc but there can be now doubt that American society routinely accepts levels and lenghts of incarceration that historically have only occurred before in totalitarian regimes.
Britain, incidentally has far more prisoners in jail than any other European country whether calculated as a % of population or in absolute terms. About double the French and German rates for examples

So far as this particular case is concerned I think that Vermillion has put the point of view from the UK superbly, but overall I am much more interested in why an advanced nation like the USA has retained a punishment regime of mediaeval savagery and that the society seems happy with it.

The US (as always JMO) has and continues to work to improve its justice system. Everyone here is concerned about crime, and punihment, not just the death penalty but all punishment. We attempt to give suspects fair trials, and decent care if and when they are in jails and prisons. The system we have often sucks and society knows it, and cares.

We live in a society so concered with the suspects rights that a man can chop off his ex-wife's head and get off free and write a book about it. Where those convicted and imprisoned often have better food, recreation and medical care than the honest society they preyed upon.

I find it odd that you chose this thread to make that remark, but you are simply stating your opinion and I respect that. I personally feel that the lenient sentence given the suspect in this case is savagery.

The society in the US is not happy with the large number of people incarcerated and is continually saying to people who live here and express concerns similar to yours:

Please, please, show us something better

and the discussion ends at that point. We could open the prison gates, but I think that is mediaeval savagery.

JMO

 

[ishtat]

The US (as always JMO) has and continues to work to improve its justice system. Everyone here is concerned about crime, and punihment, not just the death penalty but all punishment. We attempt to give suspects fair trials, and decent care if and when they are in jails and prisons. The system we have often sucks and society knows it, and cares.

We live in a society so concered with the suspects rights that a man can chop off his ex-wife's head and get off free and write a book about it. Where those convicted and imprisoned often have better food, recreation and medical care than the honest society they preyed upon.

I find it odd that you chose this thread to make that remark, but you are simply stating your opinion and I respect that. I personally feel that the lenient sentence given the suspect in this case is savagery.

The society in the US is not happy with the large number of people incarcerated and is continually saying to people who live here and express concerns similar to yours:

Please, please, show us something better

and the discussion ends at that point. We could open the prison gates, but I think that is mediaeval savagery.

JMO

When R Richard started this thread he was questioning whether the severity of a particular punishment was appropriate ie severe enough. It seems to me that it is therefore quite reasonable to look at the USA which clearly hands out by far the most severe punishments in the western world and incarcerates huge numbers of people and ask "Does that strategy work"? So no , I don't think it's odd to make the comment in this thread..

Most of the response vith the exception of Vermillion has reflected a populist "hang 'em high " mentality which hasn't been supported by a scrap of research on the particular case. There is a routine sentence review procedure which will look at the case (and I suspect increase the sentences)

 

[Vermilion]

When R Richard started this thread he was questioning whether the severity of a particular punishment was appropriate ie severe enough. It seems to me that it is therefore quite reasonable to look at the USA which clearly hands out by far the most severe punishments in the western world and incarcerates huge numbers of people and ask "Does that strategy work"? So no , I don't think it's odd to make the comment in this thread..

Most of the response vith the exception of Vermillion has reflected a populist "hang 'em high " mentality which hasn't been supported by a scrap of research on the particular case. There is a routine sentence review procedure which will look at the case (and I suspect increase the sentences)

It will, possibly, raise the sentencing. If it does, though, I hope it is entirely on the merits of the case and not because of media and popualr pressure which is being brought to bear on the case.

To remind myself to be balanced I try and think what if I was one of the men, or I knew one of the men and they *are* telling the truth, having made a genuine mistake - would I think an instant life sentencing (or whatever) fair then? <shrugs>

Just because she's a 10 year old girl doesn't mean she's an angel... I used to be one and, whilst sexually innocent compared to this child, was by no means innocent in other ways - children can be very manipulative and that should be considered perhaps?

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[ishtat]

??

You live in the Isle of Man. I would presume that you don't have a lot of teenage gangs in the Isle of Man. We do in the US. Said teenage gangs routinely do things like drive by shootings. [One gang will drive a shooter by members of another gang and shoot them down.] This is usually not too bad, because they are only killing each other and a few unlucky bystanders. However, the same teenagers get older and they are used to murder as a routine event. In order to support the quasi-military lifestyle, the gang people deal drugs. Deal drugs, go to prison. [The shooters are alnost always 15-year-olds. A 15-year-old normally gets about 90 days in juvie for what would be an adult murder.

I do indeed live in the Isle of Man. You live in the USA. However, you thought that it was reasonable to raise and discuss the apparent iniquity of a sentence and a judges comments in an English court. I am pleased that you have exercised your right to have your say from your place in the world but equally if Americans like you want to pass judgements on other peoples it is surely reasonable to accept that the foreignor has some entitlement to respond in kind.

Finally, as research of an argument doesn't seem to appeal to you I'll tell you that I was born in the UK and have lived about 10% of my life here, 40% in the USA and the remainder equally split between Australia, Italy and Japan . Now, what are your qualifications as an internationally experienced commenter.??

 

[ishtat]

It will, possibly, raise the sentencing. If it does, though, I hope it is entirely on the merits of the case and not because of media and popualr pressure which is being brought to bear on the case.

To remind myself to be balanced I try and think what if I was one of the men, or I knew one of the men and they *are* telling the truth, having made a genuine mistake - would I think an instant life sentencing (or whatever) fair then? <shrugs>

Just because she's a 10 year old girl doesn't mean she's an angel... I used to be one and, whilst sexually innocent compared to this child, was by no means innocent in other ways - children can be very manipulative and that should be considered perhaps?

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I agree totally with your comments in the first paragraph . However, is it reasonable for mistake to be put forward as an excuse after the event. Surely men have to accept that they have an absolute responsibility to ensure beforehand .

 

[ishtat]

I suppose it's a matter of deciding what you'd like to be unhappy with.

I'd be equally unhappy with having the highest rate of assault in industrialized countries (Scotland, with England and Wales lumped together coming a close runner-up).

I'd be unhappy being burglarized by three men who between them had over 60 convictions but were still not in prison (England - notoriously shot by a farmer who lay in wait for them).

I'd be unhappy if the police had a videotape of the man who stole my entire Christmas shopping run, knew him by sight, and knew exactly where he lived, but begged off because they were unable even to approach the encampment without body armor despite knowing that its inhabitants were responsible for dozens of crimes (England - a relative was the victim).

I'd be unhappy being told that my local judiciary system had decided to stop imprisoning people for the crime of burglary, despite it occuring at record rates (England).

I'd be unhappy if my country's foremost criminal unit (Scotland Yard) produced a report indicating that drugs or alcohol were closely involved in 80% of crime, and that for each such crime detected and solved, the perpetrator had committed an average of eleven other crimes, but decided that controlling the flow of those substances wasn't a strong priority for law enforcement.

On the whole, I'm willing to be unhappy that so many people choose to commit crimes and suffer the penalty. It's balanced by my sense of comfort in knowing that the local police seem to be doing well at catching them.

Shanglan

I suspect that you are responding more to the coloufulness of my expression rather than the substance of my comment which may be summarised in the question "Does Severe Punishment work for our societies"?

 

[Lisa Denton]

When R Richard started this thread he was questioning whether the severity of a particular punishment was appropriate ie severe enough. It seems to me that it is therefore quite reasonable to look at the USA which clearly hands out by far the most severe punishments in the western world and incarcerates huge numbers of people and ask "Does that strategy work"? So no , I don't think it's odd to make the comment in this thread..

Most of the response vith the exception of Vermillion has reflected a populist "hang 'em high " mentality which hasn't been supported by a scrap of research on the particular case. There is a routine sentence review procedure which will look at the case (and I suspect increase the sentences)

Huh?

You yourself pointed oout the huge population of the US, and hinted at the numerous other factors involved, one of which may be they catch more criminals.

As for the US handing out the most severe punishments in the western world I have no idea where you get your information, but I am willing to accept it due to the bizarre lunacy of the sentence this thread is discussing, which wasn't handed out in the US.

Yea, I thought it was odd that in thiis thread you referred to harsher sentences in the US as "mediaeval savagery", but if what you meant was "does this strategy work" then of course its a little less like defending that light sentence.

My opinion is that the strategy of harsh sentences in child rape cases works extremely well. Since it is one of the crimes which is usually repeated by an offender after he is released, and rehabilitation doesn't seem to work well, keeping the child rapist in prison away from children not only works, its a freakin brilliant solution.

And odd or not, I still respect your opinion.

But what I really found odd researching this case yesterday and today is that when peole began defending the judges decision, it becomes lost as its repeated that it was the defendants lawyers who said the sex was concesual and the girl looked older than a ten year old child, and the judge who labeled the victim as sexually precocious.

I would say that if the defendants lawyers hadn't said that they would be incompetant, and the judge is incompetant for slandering a ten year old rape victim by saying that if you rip her clothes off you will see she is wearing frilly undergarments, which in his mind means she is sexually precocious.

She's a ten year old child judge, you're not supposed to be looking at her underwear.

I think he should be thrown out as a judge, but it will probably be impossible, since I am sure he is recieving donations from every child molester, who want a fair honest judge who understands thier woes.

Here is a quote from this judges last fustercluck, where he allowed a convicted sex offender who was walking around free when he molested a six year old child (it didn't say if the six year old was wearing frilly underwear) to walk out of court and go looking for his next victim.

********************************************************

"A paedophile who sexually abused a six-year-old girl has been set free by a judge who suggested he give his victim money to "buy a nice new bicycle".

Eric Cole, who had already served jail terms for sex attacks, admitted putting his hand down the girl's trousers as she stood in her garden.

Judge Julian Hall told him: "In criminal terms, what you did was quite mild", before giving the 71-year-old a suspended sentence.

Cole was already a convicted paedophile when he attacked the girl last July.

Despite this, Judge Hall allowed Cole to walk from the court."

*********************************************************

Oh well, at least the judge didn't say she was sexually precocious.