A little help please

[Colleen Thomas]

I am working on a new story idea set in Ancient greece. I am fully conversant with the legend I am working with, but my knowledge of actual greek life is scanty. I am also at a loss for conversations.

I hate to just have the characters converse in plain english, but I don't know how to inject some of the local flavor.

If anyone has any ideas of suggestions I would really appreciate it.

-Colly

 

[raphy]

I know when I'm outta my league =)

G'luck, Colly

 

[cookiejar]

I am working on a new story idea set in Ancient greece. I am fully conversant with the legend I am working with, but my knowledge of actual greek life is scanty. I am also at a loss for conversations.

I hate to just have the characters converse in plain english, but I don't know how to inject some of the local flavor.

If anyone has any ideas of suggestions I would really appreciate it.

-Colly

Colly, I'm really not sure what you want but Slick lives in Cyprus and speaks Greek...PM him...if he can help he will...

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Thanks cookie Love your monster

I don't know slick and would hate to be that presumptuous. I was hoping for some details on early greek life and maybe an idea on how to work the conversations so they don't sound like modern day, but aren't unintelligible. I am working with the story of Odesseus.

-Colly

 

[cookiejar]

Thanks cookie Love your monster

I don't know slick and would hate to be that presumptuous. I was hoping for some details on early greek life and maybe an idea on how to work the conversations so they don't sound like modern day, but aren't unintelligible. I am working with the story of Odesseus.

-Colly

He's a pretty nice guy...It's not presumptuous at all...just say Cookie sent you...lol


Thanks...guess who the monster is...

 

[destinie21]

Wouldn't the everyday life depend on the century and the goings on at time. Also the birth and education of the family as well as their jobs would lend to the topics of conversation.

I know that The Athenians of the fifth century should have been torn between the value system of their heritage and those new and perhaps revolutionary concepts of equality in law and decision making, of sharing without discrimination the power and glamor of the official functions. Cleisthenes' reforms in 507 B.C. cultivated the concept of participation, involvement and interest in the city affairs, to everyone and not just to the great families. This democratic equality was easily accepted by the powerful class, as they were still in charge of the government by providing most of the generals and archons. With the death of Pericles we witness the first reactions as people from lower classes start to occupy positions in control. Wealth always remains a valuable commodity. But the wealthy contribute to the state, not only through the taxes (a percentage analogous to their capital is paid to the state) but also by becoming sponsors of public events, theatrical performances, even by supporting the maintenance and manning of the triremes. Although in previous centries the focus had been different ect and blah blah blah

 

[Guest]

Hi Colly. I've had 'classics studies' friends and studied a bit on my own when I read the Greek tragedies and comedies. First of all, ancient Greek is not the same as modern Greek, the language spoken today, so I don't think finding a Greek speaker is going to help you much.

I don't think you need to flavor your story with ancient Greek bits as long as you have the setting and cultural parts. For that you might simply search online or at the library. I'm sure there are books on 'daily life in ancient Greece'; I don't think you need get that historically explicit, just so you don't make big goofs like naming a place or an emporer/god incorrectly. You'll need some refs. to the gods and mythology; even children's books could help there.

Odysseus is a pretty big topic/character. You've read Homer?

best to you, Perdita

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Hey Perdita

I've read the Illiad, Oddesy, Aneid, some Virgil, Eruipedes, Demostacles, a good helping of Herodotus and what little I could find of Sappho. The story idea is from a fanmail, asking if I could do something with togas and other classic garb. I was wondering how Penelope managed to go ten years waiting on Odesseus to return. I don't get laid very often, but I think fourteen years without would probably be insufferable.

I thought a cute little story about her taking solace with her handmaiden would be fun to write, but I didn't count on trying to keep the feel of the story without some genuine knowledge of day to day existence. I find my vocabulary is not quite adequate to keep the (20th century) feel from the sentences.

-Colly

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Thanks cookie, I will see if he has any hints for me


Thank you for the short history lesson destinie, I at least have some places to start looking online now It's much appreciated.

-Colly

 

[Pure]

Well, you could break down and get your hands on

Everyday life in ancient Greece,

no less than four books of that title, but I think C E Robinson's is best known.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Oo...3TQEJZM&title=everyday+life+in+ancient+greece

 

[oggbashan]

The Play's The Thing

I suggest that you don't try to write in an Ancient Greek style because it wouldn't work with modern readers.

If you read some of the Greek Plays, such as Sophocles, in a modern translation you should pick up enough to give a flavour of the time.

Og

PS. Greeks didn't wear togas. For illustration of fanciful Ancient Greeks look at pictures by Frederick Leighton, G F Watts and Alma-Tadema (and some of the Pre-Raphaelites)

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Thanks Og,

I'll see what I can find. I used the term toga pretty loosely, in leiu of a better word in my somewhat limited vocabulary

Thanks Pure,

I have been dgging through my own library and have found a few books. Hopefully I won't have to buy anything, money is kinda tight

Thanks to everyone, I appreciate the responses, suggestions and ideas

-Colly

 

[Weird Harold]

I hate to just have the characters converse in plain english, but I don't know how to inject some of the local flavor.

It is a common and accepted practice to use "plain english" no matter what language the characters are actually speaking. It's presumed by most readers that the author has already done any translation that is needed so the reader doesn't have to.

I don't think you have to worry about the "original" language except for those few terms that don't translate or are commonly recognised as being "Greek" -- letters of the alphabet, Amphora, Haetera (sp), etc.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: A little help please

I don't think you have to worry about the "original" language except for those few terms that don't translate or are commonly recognised as being "Greek"

Yes, like sheep. Greeks are very partial to sheep. Good Zeus! I'm reading too many of MG's posts.

sorry, Colly.

 

[Guest]

Hi Colly,

This looks set to be quite a long post, so please bear with me. I studied 'Classics' while at school, and saw many adaptations of the Greek plays. As Og has already said, these are a great way to get a feel for life in Ancient Greece. I have in my dirty little mitts a copy of Robert Fagles' translations of Sophocles' Three Theban Plays, published by Penguin Classics. It has a very comprehensive foreward, titled 'Greece and the Theatre'. There seems to be a lot here about life in Ancient Greece, I'll do my best to pick out any relative points. Here goes...


In the 5th and 6th centuries before the birth of Christ the ancient civilization of Greece reached great heights in intellectual and artistic achievment. Architects designed and had built impressive structures, still standing today. Despite all this Greece was (and still is) a poor country. Plato (in the 4th century B.C.) spoke of it being a barron and desolate land, with barely any trees, and bare rock was predominant in the landscape.

Greece was a no-man's-land, where unwanted children, like Oedipus, were left to die (but were saved by shepherds). Where hunted men found refuge, and reunited their scattered gangs and then descended like avenging furies on the plains below. The plains were small, each separated by mountain ridges, cut off from easy contact with each other. Each one was a world apart, with, in ancient times, its own customs, dialect and seperate government - the city-state. An ancient Greek joke goes like this, told by a son to his father: "Do they have a moon like that in other cities?"

These city-states were, more often than not, at war with their neighbours- over grazing land, borderlines or cattle raids. The Greeks, who gave us philosophy, history and politics could never settle their own political differences. This permanent insecurity in interstate relations re-inforced the bond between citizen and citizen and at the same time directed their energies inward, to feed the competeative spirit that so marked a feature of Greek life: competition in sports, in art, in politics.

Sometimes this competition was fiercer for means of substinence, for life itself. The plains, although fertile, never produced enough grain, the basic Greek staple, to feed the growing population. There was always a struggle between the haves and have-nots. There were always men who had to leave home, either as exiles or colonists.

Olive trees were very important; they gave more than food. The oil produced from them was used to make a sort of soap, rubbed into the pores and scraped off with a bronze tool. It was also used as oils for lamps.

The Greeks loved to indulge in festivals, and seemed to party as the slightest excuse. One such festival being Dionysia, the celebration of the God Dionysus, which took place every spring. The God was honoured by performances in the theatres.

To summarize: Life in Ancient Greece was harsh, but they lived as very close-knit communities. They loved to party, but the lack of available men often caused problems.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I sure hope some of this helps, if nothing else it gives an idea of the kind of conditions they lived in.

Lou

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

You can't get use the real language, 'cause modern readers
couldn't get it. (To say nothing of modern, monoligual,
English-speaking, readers.) I haven't done preclassical
Greece, but I've done the middle ages once or twice.
What I did was use sort of antiquated English with the
first-person singular (thee and thou, etc.). My rule for
dialogue -- even modern English dialogue -- is that what
people really say doesn't sound realistic.
One thing to get your mind around is clothes and housing.
There are books out there which show pictures of the
clothes people wore in almost any era. There are probably
Web resources as well.
Ancient Greeks didn't wear all that much, and trousers
didn't enter the wardrobe until late in the Roman Empire.
Rich people's houses were courtyards surrounded by rooms
doors but few, if any, windows.

 

[R. Richard]

The greeks lived in city states. Two of the main city states were Athens and Sparta.

I suspect that you want Athens as a background for your story. The society of Athens had literature, drama, etc. Sparta had soldiers.

I would suggest that you web search for material for each city to get a real perspective.

JMHO.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Thanks everyone. I found a good site with examples of traditional Greek attire in the period I am writing in.

Thanks to Lou for the history lesson, it was spot on and just what I needed. Most of the story takes place in a villa, but of neccessity a small portion has to go on in the nearby town.

Thanks to both Harlod and Uther for the language advice. I am going to keep it plain english, maybe using only a few words that are well known. My trouble is keeping my 20th centuryisms out of the dialoguue and narration.

Thanks to everyone for the help. It is appreciated

-Colly

 

[Sabledrake]

Whenever I'm writing a tale with a historical setting, and want enough information for flavor without having to do really heavy research, I go first to my shelf of game books (mostly GURPS, by Steve Jackson Games).

I've also got a shelf of kids' books on knights and castles, ancient Greece/Rome/Egypt, pirates, caveman days, etc., which have lots of cool pictures

Sabledrake

 

[dee1124]

Just to put my oar in, Colly, you'll need to be a little careful using everyday life details from Classical Greece (5th century BC) in a story about Odysseus. He's Bronze Age, a good 500 years or more earlier. Weapons and armor should be bronze, not steel (there's a reference in Homer to iron being more valuable than gold). Chariots are available, though, which they weren't later on. Temples were probably wooden, not so much gleaming marble. Oh, and paint the statues of the gods and goddesses, the Greeks did. Call them Achaians or Danaians (I think that's right, something like it, anyway). All I can summon at the moment.

Dee

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Thanks Dee & Sabledrake. For my purposes no character actually makes it to the town so I don't have to describe it in any detail. The story stays mostly in the villa, with only an excursion by one character to a local witch. For this I may set her hvel outside of town and avoid the actual city descriptions.

For all practical intents I need not even describe that, if I feel uncomfortable with the situation outside the villa. I have 4 different versions written and will cull down to the one I can work the best with the most assurity that the descriptions are faithful to the time period

-Colly

 

[dr_mabeuse]

It just so happens that I just did a story set in ancient Greece as well:

http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=108964

I had them talk like human beings are prone to do, even had them swear, I just avoided as much slang and idiom as possible.

My sources said that the Dionysia was held every three years.

---dr.M.