A lie… (political)

[rgraham666]

can make it halfway around the world before the truth puts on its shoes.

I got this message over at MySpace.

In Memoriam

Recently this week, the UK removed The Holocaust from its
school curriculum because it "offended" the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. This is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it.
It is now more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe ended. This e-mail is being sent as a memorial chain, in memory of the six million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians and 1,900 Catholic priests who were murdered, massacred, raped, burned, starved and humiliated with the German and Russian people looking the other way!
Now, more than ever, with Iran, among others, claiming the Holocaust to be "a myth", it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets.
This e-mail is intended to reach 40 million people worldwide!
Join us and be a link in the memorial chain and help
us distribute it around the world.
Please send this e-mail to 10 people you know and ask them to continue the memorial chain.

Please don't just delete it. It will only take you a
minute to pass this along - Thanks!

Sigh.

First, the UK did not remove teaching about The Holocaust from its curriculum. A single school board did.

And it didn't do it because Muslims were offended, they did it because they thought Muslims would be offended. A different thing altogether.

Sigh. Humans.

 

[Seamus123]

Even one school board removing it is a bit shocking. It's history, it happened, however regrettable. It still needs to be taught so people can understand it and learn from past mistakers, surely? Hiding it away isn't going to do anything beyond turning it into playground rumours - 'did you hear what they're not teaching us?' - and making it worse through everyone because of the wild stories that'll be spreading around instead of proper education.

 

[rgraham666]

Even one school board removing it is a bit shocking. It's history, it happened, however regrettable. It still needs to be taught so people can understand it and learn from past mistakers, surely? Hiding it away isn't going to do anything beyond turning it into playground rumours - 'did you hear what they're not teaching us?' - and making it worse through everyone because of the wild stories that'll be spreading around instead of proper education.

Oh this I quite agree.

But still, people are conflating a rather minor incident into an example of 'all that is wrong with the world.'

Sigh. Too tired to be very verbal about this.

 

[Seamus123]

I don't blame you. It's just an example of the attitude around here lately.

Related: I saw a piece on This Morning, of all places, last year, about Christmas Cards being banned and everywhere having to say 'Season's Greeting's' insteads of Happy/Merry Christmas. On the show, they contacted the leaders of all the major religions in the UK to ask if they minded Christmas actually taking place, and people saying Merry Christmas etc. And not one of them minded. Most of them enjoyed Christmas because of the festive atmosphere.

P.C. gone mad.

 

[oggbashan]

I don't blame you. It's just an example of the attitude around here lately.

Related: I saw a piece on This Morning, of all places, last year, about Christmas Cards being banned and everywhere having to say 'Season's Greeting's' insteads of Happy/Merry Christmas. On the show, they contacted the leaders of all the major religions in the UK to ask if they minded Christmas actually taking place, and people saying Merry Christmas etc. And not one of them minded. Most of them enjoyed Christmas because of the festive atmosphere.

P.C. gone mad.

Last year, some of our town's Christmas lights had to be replaced because they had been damaged in strong wnds the previous Christmas. Our "Happy Christmas" sign was replaced by "Season's Greetings". Our local councillors had a fit. They hadn't been consulted about the change. The manufacturers claimed that "Season's Greetings" was more popular and that there wasn't a demand for "Happy Christmas". The councillors' response: "We're demanding "Happy Christmas" and if you won't make it we'll buy all our Christmas lights from someone else." We had "Happy Christmas" AND "Season's Greetings".

Our local mosque had a poster wishing "Happy Christmas to our neighbours".

Og

 

[Seamus123]

Last year, some of our town's Christmas lights had to be replaced because they had been damaged in strong wnds the previous Christmas. Our "Happy Christmas" sign was replaced by "Season's Greetings". Our local councillors had a fit. They hadn't been consulted about the change. The manufacturers claimed that "Season's Greetings" was more popular and that there wasn't a demand for "Happy Christmas". The councillors' response: "We're demanding "Happy Christmas" and if you won't make it we'll buy all our Christmas lights from someone else." We had "Happy Christmas" AND "Season's Greetings".

Our local mosque had a poster wishing "Happy Christmas to our neighbours".

Og

Exactly. I think the reality that we exist in is a long way from the 'reality' that people who dream these things up live in.

 

[CharleyH]

can make it halfway around the world before the truth puts on its shoes.

I got this message over at MySpace.



Sigh.

First, the UK did not remove teaching about The Holocaust from its curriculum. A single school board did.

And it didn't do it because Muslims were offended, they did it because they thought Muslims would be offended. A different thing altogether.

Sigh. Humans.

Yes ... I am all for sexy Cylons.

 

[CharleyH]

Even one school board removing it is a bit shocking. It's history, it happened, however regrettable. It still needs to be taught so people can understand it and learn from past mistakers, surely? Hiding it away isn't going to do anything beyond turning it into playground rumours - 'did you hear what they're not teaching us?' - and making it worse through everyone because of the wild stories that'll be spreading around instead of proper education.

While I do not in any way deny the holocaust (I certainly know it happened even if I was not there), what interests me is the one-minded nature of history (around the globe). Genocide is awful whichever way you cut it ... but interesting to me,
especially in WW2.

What needs to be taught in school is objectivity ... two sides because people never learn from the winners of wars alone. People learn from mistakes and it boggles my mind why we are not taught history from both sides. Mein Kampf would probably be a great read in high school history, if only to understand better HOW a people can be manipulated. It is one example. History will always be repeated - but only because history never teaches us mistakes.

 

[Seamus123]

While I do not in any way deny the holocaust (I certainly know it happened even if I was not there), what interests me is the one-minded nature of history (around the globe). Genocide is awful whichever way you cut it ... but interesting to me,
especially in WW2.

What needs to be taught in school is objectivity ... two sides because people never learn from the winners of wars alone. People learn from mistakes and it boggles my mind why we are not taught history from both sides. Mein Kampf would probably be a great read in high school history, if only to understand better HOW a people can be manipulated. It is one example. History will always be repeated - but only because history never teaches us mistakes.

Yeah, very true. I guess the educational system needs to be reformed - but not in such a way that the kids don't actually get taught anything

 

[rgraham666]

Yeah, very true. I guess the educational system needs to be reformed - but not in such a way that the kids don't actually get taught anything

Our education system is a manufacturing line. Its purpose is to turn out human resources suitable for employment.

So actual education has little to do with it.

 

[scriptordelecto]

Our education system is a manufacturing line. Its purpose is to turn out human resources suitable for employment.

So actual education has little to do with it.

Well said.

 

[matriarch]

Our education system is a manufacturing line. Its purpose is to turn out human resources suitable for employment.

So actual education has little to do with it.

Exactly.

As part of my degree studies, I did a module on curriculum and learning. Some of the video footage we saw of Conservative Education Ministers, talking quite openly about educating our children to fill their places in the work force of the future, making them 'productive members of society' (which means something very different to me), scared me. But its been part of our education psyche for generations now, not only in the UK, but apparently everywhere. Which is why I was delighted, when I was given an assignment to write: Education is for Life, not Work. I really went to town on that one.

 

[FatDino]

There is no way the UK as an entire country would remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum. They are the ones whose military intelligence has released several pictures of Jews lining up in front of large concealed buildings with smoke coming out of them. There are also pictures of piles of glasses and human bones around the camps.

Humans exaggerate things, that's our nature, in one way or another . Plus, emails like this are sent as a purpose of slowing down the line speed of websites. It was probably made by someone who wishes to see MySpace freeze

 

[CharleyH]

Yeah, very true. I guess the educational system needs to be reformed - but not in such a way that the kids don't actually get taught anything

What do you see as a "good" history lesson?

 

[CharleyH]

Our education system is a manufacturing line. Its purpose is to turn out human resources suitable for employment.

So actual education has little to do with it.

School teaches basics (who has never known it?) ... and teachers may hate someone like me churning the pot in a class ... but in the end learning is about asking MORE questions and teachers LOVE THAT! They also respond to it ... good or bad, yet mostly good.

 

[rgraham666]

Exactly.

As part of my degree studies, I did a module on curriculum and learning. Some of the video footage we saw of Conservative Education Ministers, talking quite openly about educating our children to fill their places in the work force of the future, making them 'productive members of society' (which means something very different to me), scared me. But its been part of our education psyche for generations now, not only in the UK, but apparently everywhere. Which is why I was delighted, when I was given an assignment to write: Education is for Life, not Work. I really went to town on that one.

It has to do with our religion, mat. And that religion is economics. Everything in our society is secondary to and shaped by that.

And like most religions, being human is not a major consideration.

 

[Just-Legal]

What do you see as a "good" history lesson?

I went to a mixed faith school - it was C of E controlled with a large sub-mix of Muslim, Hindu and Seikh (which, if nothing else, meant not only christmas dinner but special stuff for other holy days - the teachers learnt to dread the "End of Ramadan" - 30+ kids eating curry for lunch *g*). One of our History GCSE modules was the Middle East conflict - you'd expect it to be slightly Palestine-centric due to the school population but it was surprisingly balanced, with the major criticsm going to bipartisan handling of things.

That, to me, was a good history lesson.

 

[Emperor_Nero]

What do you see as a "good" history lesson?

The problem is, there aren't very many "good" history lessons out there. History has always been manipulated by those in power to further their own goals. Egyptian hieroglyphs have blank spots where one pharoh chisled out all mention of a previous pharoh they didn't like -- and that was far from the start. History has always been written by the winners and powerful, who sweep their own transgressions under the rug. The allies weren't angels in their conduct during WWII either (although nothing as largely attrocious as the Holocaust that I am aware of), still they are portrayed in history as the ideal saviors. Another case of history of the winner.

 

[kendo1]

There are always two sides to a story, apart from history - it is always written by the victors (in war terms anyway). Understandable from the victor's viewpoint.

Only after considerable time has passed does a balanced perspective come into play.

 

[Sherry Hawk]

Only after considerable time has passed does a balanced perspective come into play.

And sometimes, it never does, unfortunately.

 

[kendo1]

And sometimes, it never does, unfortunately.

Hi, Sherry.
To be fair, I think more of the original peoples stories/history is available now than back then, Aanakwan.

 

[Sherry Hawk]

Hi, Sherry.
To be fair, I think more of the original peoples stories/history is available now than back then, Aanakwan.

True, but I wasn't just talking about that. I was referring to more ancient people - for instance, the Celts/the Druids. There was no writing system (that we know of) and the only written history we have of those times is the Roman/Greek one, which will, naturally, be biased in their favor.

 

[kendo1]

True, but I wasn't just talking about that. I was referring to more ancient people - for instance, the Celts/the Druids. There was no writing system (that we know of) and the only written history we have of those times is the Roman/Greek one, which will, naturally, be biased in their favor.

I had thought of that, that the further back you go the less is known, But remember The Iliad and other stories/accounts handed down over the ages - written by the victors.

Archeology, too, has a part in understanding history from an unbiased perspective (mainly - I can think of a few exceptions)

 

[Emperor_Nero]

I had thought of that, that the further back you go the less is known, But remember The Iliad and other stories/accounts handed down over the ages - written by the victors.

Archeology, too, has a part in understanding history from an unbiased perspective (mainly - I can think of a few exceptions)

Even archaology is limited in what it can find. The losers (and/or their records) were often either obliterated by the victors or assimilated into the majority. From day one, those with the greatest power and those who are victorious in battle have determined what history is and left behind only bits and pieces of any alternate viewpoints that did not concern them. That is the history of the world and objectivity and balance have never been a realistically serious concern.

 

[FatDino]

Even archaology is limited in what it can find. The losers (and/or their records) were often either obliterated by the victors or assimilated into the majority. From day one, those with the greatest power and those who are victorious in battle have determined what history is and left behind only bits and pieces of any alternate viewpoints that did not concern them. That is the history of the world and objectivity and balance have never been a realistically serious concern.

And don't forget the destruction of the library of Alexandria. Just imagine how many questions could have been answered if that library hadn't been burned down.