A heartbeat away....

Edward Teach

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The pastor who clashed with Palin


Baptist minister Howard Bess, who wrote a book Palin wanted banned and who fought her on abortion and gay rights, says the country should fear her election.
By David Talbot - Salon.com

Sep. 16, 2008 | The Wasilla Assembly of God, the evangelical church where Sarah Palin came of age, was still charged with excitement on Sunday over Palin's sudden ascendance. Pastor Ed Kalnins warned his congregation not to talk with any journalists who might have been lurking in the pews ~ and directly warned this reporter not to interview any of his flock. But Kalnins and other speakers at the service reveled in Palin's rise to global stardom.

It confirmed, they said, that God was making use of Wasilla. "She will take our message to the world!" rejoiced an Assembly of God youth ministry leader, as the church band rocked the high-vaulted wooden building with its electric gospel.

That is what scares the Rev. Howard Bess. A retired American Baptist minister who pastors a small congregation in nearby Palmer, Wasilla's twin town in Alaska's Matanuska Valley, Bess has been tangling with Palin and her fellow evangelical activists ever since she was a Wasilla City Council member in the 1990s. Recently, Bess again found himself in the spotlight with Palin, when it was reported that his 1995 book, "Pastor, I Am Gay," was among those Palin tried to have removed from the Wasilla Public Library when she was mayor.

"She scares me," said Bess. "She's Jerry Falwell with a pretty face.

"At this point, people in this country don't grasp what this person is all about. The key to understanding Sarah Palin is understanding her radical theology."

Bess -- a fit-looking, 80-year-old man in a gray University of Illinois sweatshirt and blue jeans – spoke with me over coffee at the Vagabond Blues, a cafe in Palmer with a stunning view of the nearby snow-capped Chugach Mountains. The retired minister moved to the Mat-Su Valley with his wife, Darlene, in 1987, after his outspoken defense of gay rights at Baptist churches in the Santa Barbara, Calif., area and Anchorage landed him in trouble with church officials. In the Mat-Su Valley, Bess plunged into community activism, helping launch an assortment of projects, from an arts council to a shelter for the mentally disabled.

Inevitably, his work brought him into conflict with Palin and other highly politicized Christian fundamentalists in the valley. "Things got very intense around here in the '90s ~ the culture war was very hot here," Bess said. "The evangelicals were trying to take over the valley. They took over the school board, the community hospital board, even the local electric utility. And Sarah Palin was in the direct center of all these culture battles, along with the churches she belonged to."

Bess' first run-in with Palin's religious forces came when he decided to write his book, "Pastor, I Am Gay." The book was the result of a theological journey that began in the 1970s when Bess was asked for guidance by a closeted homosexual in his Santa Barbara congregation. [...]

When it was published in 1995, Bess' book caused an immediate storm in the Mat-Su Valley, an evangelical stronghold dotted with storefront churches. [...]

And after she became mayor of Wasilla, according to Bess, Sarah Palin tried to get rid of his book from the local library. Palin now denies that she wanted to censor library books, but Bess insists that his book was on a "hit list" targeted by Palin. "I'm as certain of that as I am that I'm sitting here. This is a small town, we all know each other. People in city government have confirmed to me what Sarah was trying to do."

Soon after the book controversy, Bess found himself again at odds with Palin and her fellow evangelicals. In 1996, evangelical churches mounted a vigorous campaign to take over the local hospital's community board and ban abortion from the valley. When they succeeded, Bess and Dr. Susan Lemagie, a Palmer OB-GYN, fought back, filing suit on behalf of a local woman who had been forced to travel to Seattle for an abortion. The case was finally decided by the Alaska Supreme Court, which ruled that the hospital must provide valley women with the abortion option. [...]

Another valley activist, Philip Munger, says that Palin also helped push the evangelical drive to take over the Mat-Su Borough school board. "She wanted to get people who believed in creationism on the board," said Munger, a music composer and teacher. "I bumped into her once after my band played at a graduation ceremony at the Assembly of God. I said, 'Sarah, how can you believe in creationism ~ your father's a science teacher.' And she said, 'We don't have to agree on everything.'

"I pushed her on the earth's creation, whether it was really less than 7,000 years old and whether dinosaurs and humans walked the earth at the same time. And she said yes, she'd seen images somewhere of dinosaur fossils with human footprints in them."

Munger also asked Palin if she truly believed in the End of Days, the doomsday scenario when the Messiah will return. "She looked in my eyes and said, 'Yes, I think I will see Jesus come back to earth in my lifetime.'"

Bess is unnerved by the prospect of Palin ~ a woman whose mind is given to dogmatic certitude ~ standing one step away from the Oval Office. "It's truly frightening that someone like Sarah has risen to the national level," Bess said. "Like all religious fundamentalists ~ Christian, Jewish, Muslim ~ she is a dualist. They view life as an ongoing struggle to the finish between good and evil. Their mind-set is that you do not do business with evil ~ you destroy it. Talking with the enemy is not part of their plan. That puts someone like Obama on the side of evil.

"Forget all this chatter about whether or not she knows what the Bush doctrine is. That's trivial. The real disturbing thing about Sarah is her mind-set. It's her underlying belief system that will influence how she responds in an international crisis, if she's ever in that position, and has the full might of the U.S. military in her hands. She gave some indication of that thinking in her ABC interview, when she suggested how willing she would be to go to war with Russia. [...]

"But," Bess adds, "this person's election would be a disaster for the country and the world."
 
*sigh* Yet another one founded in the false "banned books" rumor, a bunch of "guilt by association" that a few months ago the same website was lambasting with regards to Rev. Wright, and unsubstantiated scare tactics that Palin is a young earth creationist.

Sleaze is sleaze, whether it's completely out of context spin-doctored accusations that Obama wants to teach kindergarteners sex-ed and bash failed abortion babies in the head, or this.
 
Dark - how many people who were actually involved in the book-banning episode would you have to talk to before you'd believe it? Granted, she didn't succeed in banning any books, mainly because the public wouldn't allow it to happen, but she considered it. This is the point. She's a theocrat. She's dangerous. If she makes it to the Whitehouse and packs the Supreme Court with Bible-thumping conservatives, the existence of this very forum could be in jeopardy.
 
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How many people actually "involved" in the "book banning" incident have come forward? What are the books in question?

This guy is looking for national face time because his book was on a false list of supposed banned books lifted from a completely unrelated website containing books that weren't even published at the time Palin was in office.

There's absolutely nothing in the quoted article that even remotely points to Palin as a "dangerous theocrat" It's a slime piece full of crapflap, six degrees of separation, and a preacher with dollar signs in his eyes.
 
Dark - how many people who were actually involved in the book-banning episode would you have to talk to before you'd believe it? Granted, she didn't succeed in banning any books, mainly because the public wouldn't allow it to happen, but she considered it. This is the point. She's a theocrat. She's dangerous. If she makes it to the Whitehouse and packs the Supreme Court with Bible-thumping conservatives, the existence of this very forum could be in jeopardy.

Exactly.

Ask yourself. Why would she make the inquiry to begin with? What is the purpose behind it? It's not mudslinging to examine motivations.

Sure, it's up to you to decide if she really was dealing in "hypotheticals." I mean, that's America. That is one of the great things about America.

Personally, I believe that the only reason no books were banned in Wasilla is because one brave librarian stood up to her and when she fired the librarian (she did, and then re-hired her after public outcry) she was forced to back down.

The real hero here is the librarian.
 
*sigh* Yet another one founded in the false "banned books" rumor, a bunch of "guilt by association" that a few months ago the same website was lambasting with regards to Rev. Wright, and unsubstantiated scare tactics that Palin is a young earth creationist.

Sleaze is sleaze, whether it's completely out of context spin-doctored accusations that Obama wants to teach kindergarteners sex-ed and bash failed abortion babies in the head, or this.

*sigh* Maybe you should read the article before you declare it false.
 
How many people actually "involved" in the "book banning" incident have come forward?

Quoted from FactCheck.org

It’s true that Palin did raise the issue with Mary Ellen Emmons, Wasilla’s librarian, on at least two occasions, three in some versions. Emmons flatly stated her opposition each time. But, as the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman (Wasilla’s local paper) reported at the time, Palin asked general questions about what Emmons would say if Palin requested that a book be banned. According to Emmons, Palin "was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library." Emmons reported that Palin pressed the issue, asking whether Emmons' position would change if residents were picketing the library. Wasilla resident Anne Kilkenny, who was at the meeting, corroborates Emmons' story, telling the Chicago Tribune that "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?' "
 
Sorry but most Baptists scare me worse.

My sisters are Baptist, and they have the same beliefs as Sarah Palin. They're delighted at the thought of her possibly being president. They didn't like McCain as a choice - he was too liberal for them. But Palin? Perfect! They are THRILLED beyond words.
 
My sisters are Baptist, and they have the same beliefs as Sarah Palin. They're delighted at the thought of her possibly being president. They didn't like McCain as a choice - he was too liberal for them. But Palin? Perfect! They are THRILLED beyond words.

"They didn't like McCain as a choice - he was too liberal for them. But Palin? Perfect!" *chills*
 
"They didn't like McCain as a choice - he was too liberal for them. But Palin? Perfect!" *chills*

Exactly, the fact that this woman is just a footstep away from being president should McCain be elected -let's face it, McCain is 72 years old........absolutely terrifying not only for those American citizens who's lives could be affected by this woman's beliefs, but for the rest of the world who could be affected by her decisions.
 
I've heard over and over the "heartbeat away" mantra, but face it, peeps, 72 isn't nearly as old as it used to be.
 
I've heard over and over the "heartbeat away" mantra, but face it, peeps, 72 isn't nearly as old as it used to be.

You're right, but this is a guy who's been diagnosed with cancer at least a half dozen times.
 
You're right, but this is a guy who's been diagnosed with cancer at least a half dozen times.

Yeah, and he's beaten it at least a half dozen times. We've all known people who seemed to be at death's door and yet somehow hung on for years, and he's out doing a campaign, which is fairly exhausting work.

My mother's 80, and in pretty good health, although she no longer gets up at dawn and power-walks through the neighborhood, and she's finally accepted that she's going to buy a hearing aid. I wouldn't vote for anybody who was that age now, but if she'd been elected at 72, she would be old enough to have served two terms.
 
It would appear it's not just sled dogs getting muzzled in Alaska.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:


AG says state employees won't honor subpoenas
By STEVE QUINN, Associated Press Writer

JUNEAU, Alaska - Alaska's investigation into whether Gov. Sarah Palin abused her power, a potentially damaging distraction for John McCain's presidential campaign, ran into intensified resistance Tuesday when the attorney general said state employees would refuse to honor subpoenas in the case.

In a letter to state Sen. Hollis French, the Democrat overseeing the investigation, Republican Attorney General Talis Colberg asked that the subpoenas be withdrawn. He also said the employees would refuse to appear unless either the full state Senate or the entire Legislature votes to compel their testimony.

Colberg, who was appointed by Palin, said the employees are caught between their respect for the Legislature and their loyalty to the governor, who initially agreed to cooperate with the inquiry but has increasingly opposed it since McCain chose her as his running mate.


Full text of article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/palin_troopergate
 
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Exactly.

Ask yourself. Why would she make the inquiry to begin with? What is the purpose behind it? It's not mudslinging to examine motivations.

Sure, it's up to you to decide if she really was dealing in "hypotheticals." I mean, that's America. That is one of the great things about America.

Personally, I believe that the only reason no books were banned in Wasilla is because one brave librarian stood up to her and when she fired the librarian (she did, and then re-hired her after public outcry) she was forced to back down.

The real hero here is the librarian.
Librarians are heroes. They are uncompromising and principled, and they yield not. They have defended themselves against NSL's, more or less effectively.

I stand in awe, myself, of United States Librarians.

I heard Amy Goodman express the same sentiments. Librarians are the shit.

Word.
 
Fact is, Palin is a wack job. Good thing the Repug ticket has zero ass chance of being elected.
 
First, congrats to those who post links to original sources.

On the other hand, those 'originals' are simply assertions by others, so not, in themselves, any real proof of anything.

On the other hand, if SP were to come out and deny these rumours, I bet that would be reported widely.


I'm an outsider, concerned about the undeniable leadership that the US President gives to the whole world. Compared to a US school-kid, I'm ignorant about the US Constitution (as amended), but I thought one of the founding principles was to keep religious domination of others right out of government (I understand that the many of the US' founders were fleeing from religious prejudice).

If that's correct, how come that bringing religious matters into politics - to force others to comply - isn't seen as the ultimate un-American activity and denounced as such? For that proposition, the evidence is readily available, the aforesaid Constitution.
 
Today's paper makes Palin's experience a serious issue. But this strategy cannot work because Obama has less experience than Palin does, and it contrasts and compares a Presidential candidate with a Vice Presidential candidate. The REAL comparison is between Obama and McCain. I assure you people will make the connection.

The local paper paints voters as closet racists. This isnt good, either. It makes Obama seem weak and impotent.
 
Fact is, Palin is a wack job. Good thing the Repug ticket has zero ass chance of being elected.
On the contrary, cant. I think their chances are very good.

They're better at getting the vote out, that is the vote of the people who support them.

And they're better at gaming the system, that is making sure that it is difficult for people opposed to them to vote.
 
Stick a fork in Obama because he's done.

The poor chump cant get around Palin and his current plan is little more than painting white voters as racists.

It's over.
 
SELENA

Its not the McCain camp thats whining about the treachery of racist white voters.

Obama was in a position to dominate this election, and he's done virtually nothing. Palin knocked him off tv the day after his confirmation, and he hasnt recovered. I cant name anyone important who's campaigning for him.

Unless he catches fire with some stunning proposals, its over.
 
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