A Hateful Sentence

[dr_mabeuse]

A sentence in a story I posted in the Story Discussion Circle stirred up some real concern and dislike. I'm curious as to what people think.

Here's the scene: Lia, a very ambitious and predatory career woman, is in the Ladies' room at an awards dinner, plotting to put the moves on some guy who can help her career. Her friend comes in, and here's the sentence:

Candy had a weight problem and so was no competition for Lia, therefore they were friends, or close enough.

That's all I'm going to say. I'm not even going to tell you what the objections were. I'd like to hear people's reactions.

---dr.M.

 

[Blackie Malone]

What's the big deal? Women are catty.

 

[logophile]

A sentence in a story I posted in the Story Discussion Circle stirred up some real concern and dislike. I'm curious as to what people think.

Here's the scene: Lia, a very ambitious and predatory career woman, is in the Ladies' room at an awards dinner, plotting to put the moves on some guy who can help her career. Her friend comes in, and here's the sentence:

Candy had a weight problem and so was no competition for Lia, therefore they were friends, or close enough.

That's all I'm going to say. I'm not even going to tell you what the objections were. I'd like to hear people's reactions.

---dr.M.

Works for me.
It clearly illustrates Lia's priorities and furthers the development of her as " a very ambitious and predatory career woman."

The sad truth is that some people really only do surround themselves with people who are no threat, or no challenge.

Well written, Doc.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I take it to mean that larger women cannot hope to compete with their smaller counterparts, which is a bunch of bull.

It doesn't come across clearly "who" thinks she's no competition. Candy? Lia? The author?

Of course, I react to stuff like that because I'm a larger woman. Clarifying the sentence to state whose thought it was would help.

 

[cantdog]

Crim, that clarification may have been there, in the context. I take it pretty clearly to mean the perception was Lia's, and I suppose it could have been otherwise, but there's nothing in what we have to impute it to the author. I think not. I think the author is pointing out the flaw, because "therefore they were friends." It's distasteful, but the author wishes to convey that Lia's attitudes are just that.

 

[ElizabethWest]

I agree with Logo, Doc. It does characterize her ambition. And well written in a succinct manner. It gives you all you need to know about Lia. I hope Candy gets picked for the promotion though. As a BBW who holds a work position shared only by two others in this state, I like to think there are employers out there who pick the most qualified applicant.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

It seems to me, the statement is all about Lia's personality, not about anything else. Driven people, who rely on one means or another to obtain thier ends, generally befriend people who are no challenge to them in that arena. thus, the really glib man will generally have more quiet freinds. A woman who is very vain, will have few beautiful freinds, but will be more approachable & less hostile to people she sees as no competition.

Within the bounds of the story, it seems incouous to me. You could have given Candy a hair lip or some other disfigurment, but that would be so hideously contrived.

Within the sphere of my own writing, I often get males who accuse me of being a man-hater. I think most people who know me know I am not. But stories need crisis to drive them and in many of my tales, a jerk husband/boyfreind is the most believeable villan.

With an eye to establishing the shallowness of the character, being overweight is a common enough occurance to have believability and in the bussines world, as lawsuits attest, it's a common reason people are passed over for promotion.

I would suggest you meet people's objections with a question. Simply ask what affliction they would suggest you give candy to render her no threat in the shallow character's mind?

 

[davidwatts]

A sentence in a story I posted in the Story Discussion Circle stirred up some real concern and dislike. I'm curious as to what people think.

Here's the scene: Lia, a very ambitious and predatory career woman, is in the Ladies' room at an awards dinner, plotting to put the moves on some guy who can help her career. Her friend comes in, and here's the sentence:

Candy had a weight problem and so was no competition for Lia, therefore they were friends, or close enough.

That's all I'm going to say. I'm not even going to tell you what the objections were. I'd like to hear people's reactions.

---dr.M.

Oh, I'm sure that I can guess the objections. Problem is, people do pair up like that. I've never had the pleasure of being the guy that was the "cuter" one when I used to go out with another guy or guys to bars and the like, but I'm sure that was in the mind of the other guy(s), at least subconsciously. My presence made them look better. Is it any different with women?

It's human nature for most people to want to be the more desirable one in a group, and to not feel threatened when being in the company of one they see as less attractive. The thing is, sometimes other people will fool them, and not go for the superficial things like looks or weight, and find more admirable qualities in the "other" person. Not often enough, but it does happen.

 

[English Lady]

I'm what you'd class as BBW and that doesn't offend me in anyway. Just makes me see that Lia is a bit of a bitch really *L* In fact I was the fat friend for a fair few people back in my school days..so I recognise it does happen. It is a sentance that makes me react but I react to dislike Lia, not the author.

 

[rgraham666]

I don't see the problem. I think the sentence outlines Lia's personality very nicely. Very insecure, and hiding it by being viciously ambitious and she doesn't allow anyone who she believes will be competition around her.

I dislike her already.

Also note, the weight problem is strictly from Lia's point of view. By her standards anybody outside 'the norm' promoted by modern media is likely to have a weight problem.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Candy had a weight problem and so was no competition for Lia, therefore they were friends, or close enough.

I'm sorry Dr. M. It's inexcusable. Absolutely wrong and terribly offensive.

That comma splice has got to go.

On the other hand, the characterization is superb and I think gives us ideal insight into Lia's thought processes. If that's what they're yammering about, fuck 'em.

Shanglan

 

[sophia jane]

No problems with the thought behind the sentence. Gets the point of the character across. Not thrilled with the wording, though I don't know why. Guess that isn't much use.

SJ

 

[neonlyte]

Didn't bother me when I did the SDC crit and doesn't bother me now - as a stand alone sentence. What does bother me is this readerships interpretation of Lia based upon the single sentence. You might want to consider that.

The sentence describes a flaw in Lia's character; it's a common flaw.

 

[cantdog]

The sentence describes a flaw in Lia's character, it's a common flaw.

Candy had a weight problem and so was no competition for Lia, therefore they were friends, or close enough.

Both sentences have a common punctation flaw. Fix it; put in the semicolon or split the sentences.

 

[CharleyH]

A sentence in a story I posted in the Story Discussion Circle stirred up some real concern and dislike. I'm curious as to what people think.

Candy had a weight problem and so was no competition for Lia, therefore they were friends, or close enough.

No offence, but it sounds like a sentance from my LSATs, not very poetic.

 

[sophia jane]

Both sentences have a common punctation flaw. Fix it; put in the semicolon or split the sentences.

Semicolon would help. Also don't like the word "therefore" but that's just me being bitchy.

SJ

 

[BlackShanglan]

Both sentences have a common punctation flaw. Fix it; put in the semicolon or split the sentences.

*takes the duck behind the hedges and rogers it senseless*

It's so sexy to talk punctuation.

Shanglan

 

[neonlyte]

The sentence describes a flaw in Lia's character; it's a common flaw.

Fixed.

 

[impressive]

I agree with what Logo and Blackie said.

Without further context, I'd say that it could certainly be reworded to make it clearer that Lia's idea of a "weight problem" might not be society's or even Candy's idea of one (making Lia seem even MORE shallow).

You've packed an awful lot about Lia's character in just that sentence. Well done.

 

[Guest]

I don't see the problem. I think the sentence outlines Lia's personality very nicely. Very insecure, and hiding it by being viciously ambitious and she doesn't allow anyone who she believes will be competition around her.

I dislike her already.

Also note, the weight problem is strictly from Lia's point of view. By her standards anybody outside 'the norm' promoted by modern media is likely to have a weight problem.

I agree.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Honestly, Doc, I think we'd need to read more of the story you posted to know for certain. If a lot of the prose is based within the characters, meaning things stated outside of dialogue or thought that are directed from the characters POV (or I guess I mean thoughts represented by the prose, outside of the basic "he thought, she thought"), then it makes sense and works, but if the majority of the story isn't told from her POV, and that sentence stands out as such, then you may have a problem. If the latter's the case, then the sentence reads more as a statement of fact from the author instead of a characterizing statement from the viewpoint of the stuck-up bitch (ahem... ).

You get my point.

Q_C

 

[msboy8]

I'm sorry Dr. M. It's inexcusable. Absolutely wrong and terribly offensive.

That comma splice has got to go.

On the other hand, the characterization is superb and I think gives us ideal insight into Lia's thought processes. If that's what they're yammering about, fuck 'em.

Shanglan

I agree. True Word Grammer Check doesn't catch everything, but it's good with semicolons vs commas. Maybe write more about how Lia fels and thinks.

 

[cantdog]

Okay, Zoot. You've had your fun. Is that really all you're gonna say, or do we get some idea if this went as you imagined it would?

 

[Guest]

the stuck-up bitch (ahem... ).

You get my point.

Q_C

I don't get women.

They don't even have a point for peeing standing up.

 

[CharleyH]

Okay, Zoot. You've had your fun. Is that really all you're gonna say, or do we get some idea if this went as you imagined it would?

Personally, I think this is Doc's very subtle promotional way of saying get your ass over to the SDC and comment on my story, god dammitt!

Of course, lately I'm thinking everyone has an agenda