A frustrating situation that indirectly involves me

[tigerjen]

Okay here goes:

Back in December '03, my grandmother (my dad's mom) wanted to
come to the family business to help out, as she has done many
times before. My dad said okay but to wait until the traffic from
commuting was clear. However, somehow, she did not end up
at the store (my dad and uncle own and run a jewelry store) and
somehow ended up two towns away, and managed to get into
a minor fender-bender. Ever since then she has not been allowed
to drive.

Right after she had an angioplasty (which went wrong, and she
ended up getting congestive heart failure!) back in Sept '01 she
was not able to drive for quite a while, esp. because she still had
to have surgery to correct glaucoma in one eye. Plus from the
congestive heart failure, she had fluid build-up in one of her
legs, unfortunately the right leg. The following summer of '02
I had to help out by bringing her to the beach on Sundays (my dad
would meet me out front, and he would help her, and later on,
he would bring her home) when the weather was good.

Somewhere in '03 she was able to drive again, but only during
the daytime----such as to go shopping, to help out at the store,
to go out w/ friends, etc. I do have to backtrack because
on Christmas Eve '02 we were going to pick her up at her house
so we all could go to my uncle's for Christmas eve party. The
strange thing was that it was around 6:30pm AND she was not
home! My dad started to freak out----but then I recogized my
grandmother's car and yelled at my dad to follow......my dad
honked the horn, yelled out his window, and we drove following
her--PAST her house---for at least a half mile when she finally
stopped. My dad was not happy----apparently she had become
disoriented, esp. since it got dark so early too. So my dad got
into her car and drove her back to the house, and my mom drove
our car back. Boy that was a nightmare...very scary!

Anyhow......things were okay in '03 up until the December
accident as I had mentioned above. So ONCE AGAIN this summer
I've been helping out when I could to bring her to the beach
(same routine as I mentioned before), etc.

My parents are away until early next week so on my dad's orders
*I* have to call my grandmother EVERY day to make sure things
are fine----fuck, why should I have to? She's fine--and actually
she called me this morning to see if my parents out to their
destination okay. I know its just my uncle at the store but I
hope that he's doing his part and helping out too.

Why am I so frustrated? It's because my dad seems to keep
denying the fact that his mom is getting older, and keeps
putting off stuff such as looking into a retirement type of
community setting for her----understand my grandmother is
independent type, but w/ her mind starting to go and her
health (she's on god knows how many meds!), it would be best
to see her in a facility where she can be independent, get rides
to the grocery store and other errands, etc. My dad has to take
time out from work during the day just to bring her to Dr.'s
appointments. My mom has been nagging my dad for over a year
to figure out something. My grandmother does NOT want to be
in a nursing home. I don't know how she will feel about being
in a independent-living facility. My dad claims he's been looking
for somebody to come into her home and help her out and such,
but he said that last year too. I love my grandmother very
much, and yes, she is family, but I feel the time has come where
she has to be in a setting where there's structure (i.e. proper
med-taking times) but yet still be as independent as possible.
Another thing, both my uncle and my dad both check on her to make
sure she's taken her meds----I know my dad goes over there
every week to set up her pillboxes for the week.

Here's another background.....my grandmother's oldest sister
(my great-aunt, who passed away in '92) was in an senior apt
setting for several years, and when she passed on, she was in
the very beginning of Alzheimer's disease. I'm wondering if its
just age or another factor, but I think my grandmother might be
showing signs: I'l give an example----she'll refer to her hubby
(my grandfather---who passed away in '85) as "Uncle"....and
I remember one morning a few months ago she called my house,
and my mom picking up the phone, and my grandmother asked
where her husband was? Now THAT's scary!

Anyhow, I don't' know if any of you have had a situation like
this, or similar, but any advice would help a great deal. Thank
you......


tigerjen

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Okay here goes:

Back in December '03, my grandmother (my dad's mom) wanted to
come to the family business to help out, as she has done many
times before. My dad said okay but to wait until the traffic from
commuting was clear. However, somehow, she did not end up
at the store (my dad and uncle own and run a jewelry store) and
somehow ended up two towns away, and managed to get into
a minor fender-bender. Ever since then she has not been allowed
to drive.

Right after she had an angioplasty (which went wrong, and she
ended up getting congestive heart failure!) back in Sept '01 she
was not able to drive for quite a while, esp. because she still had
to have surgery to correct glaucoma in one eye. Plus from the
congestive heart failure, she had fluid build-up in one of her
legs, unfortunately the right leg. The following summer of '02
I had to help out by bringing her to the beach on Sundays (my dad
would meet me out front, and he would help her, and later on,
he would bring her home) when the weather was good.

Somewhere in '03 she was able to drive again, but only during
the daytime----such as to go shopping, to help out at the store,
to go out w/ friends, etc. I do have to backtrack because
on Christmas Eve '02 we were going to pick her up at her house
so we all could go to my uncle's for Christmas eve party. The
strange thing was that it was around 6:30pm AND she was not
home! My dad started to freak out----but then I recogized my
grandmother's car and yelled at my dad to follow......my dad
honked the horn, yelled out his window, and we drove following
her--PAST her house---for at least a half mile when she finally
stopped. My dad was not happy----apparently she had become
disoriented, esp. since it got dark so early too. So my dad got
into her car and drove her back to the house, and my mom drove
our car back. Boy that was a nightmare...very scary!

Anyhow......things were okay in '03 up until the December
accident as I had mentioned above. So ONCE AGAIN this summer
I've been helping out when I could to bring her to the beach
(same routine as I mentioned before), etc.

My parents are away until early next week so on my dad's orders
*I* have to call my grandmother EVERY day to make sure things
are fine----fuck, why should I have to? She's fine--and actually
she called me this morning to see if my parents out to their
destination okay. I know its just my uncle at the store but I
hope that he's doing his part and helping out too.

Why am I so frustrated? It's because my dad seems to keep
denying the fact that his mom is getting older, and keeps
putting off stuff such as looking into a retirement type of
community setting for her----understand my grandmother is
independent type, but w/ her mind starting to go and her
health (she's on god knows how many meds!), it would be best
to see her in a facility where she can be independent, get rides
to the grocery store and other errands, etc. My dad has to take
time out from work during the day just to bring her to Dr.'s
appointments. My mom has been nagging my dad for over a year
to figure out something. My grandmother does NOT want to be
in a nursing home. I don't know how she will feel about being
in a independent-living facility. My dad claims he's been looking
for somebody to come into her home and help her out and such,
but he said that last year too. I love my grandmother very
much, and yes, she is family, but I feel the time has come where
she has to be in a setting where there's structure (i.e. proper
med-taking times) but yet still be as independent as possible.
Another thing, both my uncle and my dad both check on her to make
sure she's taken her meds----I know my dad goes over there
every week to set up her pillboxes for the week.

Here's another background.....my grandmother's oldest sister
(my great-aunt, who passed away in '92) was in an senior apt
setting for several years, and when she passed on, she was in
the very beginning of Alzheimer's disease. I'm wondering if its
just age or another factor, but I think my grandmother might be
showing signs: I'l give an example----she'll refer to her hubby
(my grandfather---who passed away in '85) as "Uncle"....and
I remember one morning a few months ago she called my house,
and my mom picking up the phone, and my grandmother asked
where her husband was? Now THAT's scary!

Anyhow, I don't' know if any of you have had a situation like
this, or similar, but any advice would help a great deal. Thank
you......


tigerjen

Yes Jen It does sound like the beginnings of Alzheimers.
She shouldn't be allowed to drive anymore, at all! Someone could get killed because of it.
And someone has to get off their butt and find some assisted living for her!!
Waiting will soon not even be an option anymore. And no one wants her to harm herself by accident.
My two cents worth

 

[tonitits]

I have had family members that have had Alzheimer's and also an aunt that sounds alot like your grandmother, but she did not have Alzheimer's she had a form of depression and sometimes she would be very lucid and sometimes not recognize her own grandkids, my mom (her neice), me, etc...but she ALWAYS knew my son! Some ppl get dimentia. She died 5 yrs ago. She lived with her grandson and his wife and they had a nurse come in every day. Until about a month or two before she died and they finally put her in a nursing home to recoupe from some illness. She died there. A friend at work mom has dimentia. She is in an assisted living home. And it is much better. She is still able to do some things, but not having ppl take advantage of her and her situation and it is close to his home so he goes and visits her, etc..I will say that he had a hard time getting her in. Because the places for Alzheimer's didn't want to take her, because she can still do things and she required more care than most of those patients. She would walk off, etc.. But he finally was able to find one and what her pension does not cover Medicare does. Either way your dad, uncle someone has to get this taken care of and assisted living seems the best alternative. IMHO

 

[Mysty61]

Jen, I don't want to alarm you too much but I think you are on the right track. Care of the elderly can be difficult for both the family and individual involved. So many times the doctors will not insist on or even recommend a move when it is so very obviously in the best interest of all.

I have a neighbor who lost her husband last winter after he was in a home for about six months. Her family suggested she also move to the home. She refused and they dropped it. However, they did take the battery out of her car to prevent her from driving. She was very disoriented, had little idea if any of what was going on, did not know names, and so forth. The family backed off and said ok stay in your house if you think you can handle it. Well, about 6 weeks ago she fell in the shower and broke her hip. She was on the floor from sometime Monday until Thursday morning when someone came to check on her because she had not answered the phone. She is a very tiny lady (about 80#), but somehow managed to stay alive. After going to the hospital she ended up in an assisted living home. Today she weighs about 100#, knows people and events, and is doing well. It turns out when she was at home by herself she was not eating, and was slowly starving, which was causing a lot of problems including memory loss.

It is very difficult for us to face the fact our parents are unable to function on their own, and it is also very difficult for our parents to face this fact. However, as difficult as it is someone has to face up to the facts, and do something. In this case it may be you. No doubt there will be arguments and fights, and emotions will run high. However, in the long run you grandmother will have a better life, and I am sure a longer life. That will be your reward.

 

[playfullyinsane]

Jen, first of all, my heart goes out to you along with thoughts and prayers. I don't believe any of us are ever totally prepared to deal with the difficulty of aging when it comes to our own parents or grandparents. In the case of your Dad, it seems as if it is hard for him to separate his emotions and look at the situation as objectively as possible. After all, it is his Mom. Yet, it sounds as if he wants what is best for her and is willing to care for her, as you want what is best and care for her also. How then does everybody get on the same page in caring for her? And, how do you convince your grandmother that any decisions you (the whole family being you) and she (your grandmother) make together, are in her best interests? From what I read of your story it seems like this is what you are asking?

Your grandma appears to be still full of life with a willingness to enjoy that life still in front of her. Her recent physical problems are setbacks yet not the end of her story for sure. She may be sufering the onset of alzheimers or a dementia or it may also be a physical problem. A good physician would help in that diagnosis. The concern about her living on her own is a valid one and needs to be addressed. The problem seems to be that your Dad is a stumbling block here and is not listening to what the family is saying. Is there anyone else he might listen to outside of family members? It has been my experience that we, men, will listen to someone outside of the family when it comes to situations such as this. A doctor perhaps or a clergy member that your Dad would trust? I may be wrong here but I get the feeling your Dad believes taking care of his Mom is his obligation/responsibility and, by God, come hell or highwater, he is going to do it on his own. He needs to realize that it is okay to share that caretaking with others outside of the family and an assisted living facility would be a great fit for your grandma.

There are some really wonderful places and, if you research them, he might go along and check them out with you. Perhaps if he sees it, not as a "have to" at first, but as something that may be a possibility he would be more agreeable. If that does not work, live in help can also work depending on all the factors involved.

Hope some of this helps and if you want to talk further I will try and help. It is scary stuff having been there with my mother in law and helping other folks through some of this, but it can also be good scary and a relief for all involved.

Of course, if I really want 'good scary' a tigerjen in my pants might be the way to go! Hopefully, that gives you a small smile! It does me!

Peace in all this, jen.

 

[1sexylady]

Caring for an older person is hard. Sounds like she has this....

***senile dementia

a mental disorder of old age especially of the degenerative type associated with Alzheimer's disease***

I take care of someone who has this and it is not easy at all. She doesn't drive, thank god. She did fall once before she came to live here and layed there for 18 hours and then thought my son was there and ignored her calling to him. He was not there and just a child then and was home with me. (This is my older son and to this day he thinks she hates him because she still thinks he was there and ignored her.)

Sounds like your father is in denial but someone has to wake him up before something happens to her and then he will feel worse.

 

[Nikkitta]

Hi Jen , i will say that i agree to most of what the others have said so far , it seems there is something going on but nobody should jump to conclusions till someone really looks at the whole situation ,it needs to be diagnosed to make any kind of decision and the nursing home is one of the last resorts for anyone to consider as long as the person is still able and wanting to live on their own ,there is home health care as well as assisted living that come way before the nursing home ,but till then it is deff not a bad idea to keep the family strong by sticking together and caring for your grandmother by checking up on her ,most people automaticly think Alzheimers when there is so many forms of Dementia some can be very well controlled by meds and an extra hand at home may it be family or HH .
Many Familymembers for their own reasons always want their mom ,dad ,sister brother to remain as they have been all their life and its very hard to watch someone grow old and admit something is not right .But its also very important for the Family to discuss this including the person involved and see what they have to say and how they feel about it .Believe me when i say i feel for you since im hurting right now because i was told way to late about whats going on about 4445 miles away from me .

 

[tigerjen]

Thank you guys......

I've read all you said thus far, and will reread it again
as time goes on.......thank you so far for your advice.

It is going to be very difficult, believe me...my dad has a
temper at times when emotions run high, and though
I have talked to my mom about this whole situation, she
agrees with me that he should do something.

One possibility is also the amount and type of meds that
she is on. Yes, she still is witty and sharp at times
around family but at times she will tell a story and refer
to my grandfather (her hubby) as "Uncle".

And yes, safety is an issue. She does not drive anymore
thank goodness...and she is well aware of that.

She is actually scared of going into a nursing home type
setting, but I don't know how she will feel about going
into an independent living setting w/ caregiving.

The scary thing is that w/ her heart problems and all now,
my grandmother has always been a very healthy
person, she never smoked a day in her life, and she
has an occasional drink (such as wine on Passover, for example).

I will keep checking back here to read.....thank you guys!

 

[Cathleen]

{{{{ Jenn }}}} first of all.

I know it is a difficult situation. There aren't clear answers but perhaps you can sit with your father, in a quiet and at a time that the situation isn't emergent. Have your notes ready, tell him your concerns, your experiences regarding the matter.

Perhaps you can ask other relatives help as well. It is an emotional matter and that makes it more difficult but it is serious as well.

I wonder if you did some homework on places in the area and then bring that with you when you speak with your father. I know you have a background in the social services and are more than competent to handle this problem.

 

[tigerjen]

bump

 

[showuoff]

Caring for an older person is hard. Sounds like she has this....

***senile dementia

a mental disorder of old age especially of the degenerative type associated with Alzheimer's disease***

I take care of someone who has this and it is not easy at all. She doesn't drive, thank god. She did fall once before she came to live here and layed there for 18 hours and then thought my son was there and ignored her calling to him. He was not there and just a child then and was home with me. (This is my older son and to this day he thinks she hates him because she still thinks he was there and ignored her.)

Sounds like your father is in denial but someone has to wake him up before something happens to her and then he will feel worse.

The inability to differentiate dreams from reality in many of the mental problems affecting old people is common. It is very upsetting to the people who are mistreated because of some delusion. Trying to talk the old person out of the delusion by demonstrating the reality will sometimes help. But not always. If it doesn't work, they assure your son that the delusion usually fades from memory like a dream within a week and it becomes as if it never happened.

 

[showuoff]

Jen,

Before assuming your grandmother has Alzheimers or some other form of dementia or mental illness, check her blood oxygen readings. The type of manifestations you describe are often caused by insufficient oxygen to the brain as a result of congestive heart failure. A doctor should check her lungs, but the fluid cannot always be heard. An actual blood oxygen level test should be performed.

For some reason, the doctors don't think of the blood oxygen problem, and if it goes undetected too long permanent brain damage can result. It's a simple and easy test.

If the blood oxygen levels are OK, check the meds. Go over them with the doctor. There are many blood pressure and other medications given to old people that have very disorienting side effects in some people. The doctor doesn't know the patient is experiencing the side effect unless it is reported. Of course, they should warn the family to look for it, but doctors are often less than ideal in the way they practice. They are too interested in making the most they can in the shortest period ot time to be bothered with the niceties of being a doctor like informing the family and patient of potential problems.

Whatever you do, take the car away. If you need to store it at grandmas house, take all copies of the keys away. While she is in this condition there is a serious likelihood that she will injure herself or someone else in the vehicle.

Just having your grandma say she won't drive anymore may not work. I have a friend whose mother promised not to drive, and couldn't see at night. She forgot she couldn't drive and she forgot she couldn't see at night. She got into the car late at night to go who knows where, and had a serious accident.

My father had a stroke and was paralyzed on one side. He was seriously injured when he got out of bed on his own because he forgot he couldn't walk.

 

[biggbear8]

bump

my dad went through the same thing there are more problems then you think I lived with my dad till he died theres always the thought of him going out for a walk and forgetting where he lived and not remembering whop is friends were, than there cooking he would put things on the stove and forget them , or he would fall asleep after taking his meds and than wake up and take them all again not a good thing. An assisted living apt is a good idea they still have the freedom but have people to watch over them also to cook clean and make sure they get there meds. Im living in an assisted living community right now and all of the ladies here are very nice and well do anything for their clients. you should check into them take a look around ans see what they offer for them to do.

I know its a hard thing to do but for her safety it could be the best thing. and yes you can come pick her up anf take her to the beach on a vacation with you or even just to your uncles store.
and they will take her on outing like to go shopping, sometimes to movies and when they do things like that there is always a couple aids with them to help.

 

[tigerjen]

thanks guys so far for your advice again...and comments......

She is very aware that she cannot drive.

Blood oxygen readings? I never heard such a thing
but that could be looked into. Thanks for mentioning it,
showuoff......

I think what's happening at this time is that my dad
wants her to be in her own house until its absolutely
necessary for her to go into another setting such as
an assisted living community. I think another problem
w/ that is the money factor as those places cost a lot
per month as far as I know.

 

[Missingmeds]

Tigerjen, we actually have some here that aren't as expensive as you think. I would think that being in her own home is a good thing but not at the expense of her health.

Yes you probably do need to make sure that the doctor is monitoring her blood oxygen level and that her potassium levels are also being checked on a regular basis.

 

[tigerjen]

Tigerjen, we actually have some here that aren't as
expensive as you think. I would think that being in her
own home is a good thing but not at the expense of
her health.

Yes you probably do need to make sure that the doctor
is monitoring her blood oxygen level and that her
potassium levels are also being checked on a regular
basis.

Well if I start bringing all this med stuff up now, my dad will
probably think I'm nuts and wonder where I've been doing
my research! But seriously, items such as blood
oxygen levels and potassium checks are important.

What about a home health aide that comes in daily, twice
a day? Any thoughts?

 

[tonitits]

First of all from what I have heard from friends,etc.. is that alot of the assisted living homes it goes by your income. So if she has some retirement, etc..they will consider that and medicare may pick up the rest. Something to look into.

As I said before my mom's aunt lived with her grandson and his family until right before she died. And they had a nurse that came in every day, checked on her, gave her her meds, fixed her something to eat. She would not eat alot of times. The only thing she wanted was ice cream. Sometimes my mom would go over to check on her and visit with her and bring her a shake, she loved that and then my mom would try to get her to eat something more. When she died she was only about 78 lbs.

 

[tigerjen]

First of all from what I have heard from friends,etc.. is that alot
of the assisted living homes it goes by your income. So if she has
some retirement, etc..they will consider that and medicare may
pick up the rest. Something to look into.

As I said before my mom's aunt lived with her grandson and his
family until right before she died. And they had a nurse that came
in every day, checked on her, gave her her meds, fixed her
something to eat. She would not eat alot of times. The only
thing she wanted was ice cream. Sometimes my mom would
go over to check on her and visit with her and bring her a shake,
she loved that and then my mom would try to get her to eat
something more. When she died she was only about 78 lbs.

Oh gosh Toni......that is very tough. *huggies* Now in regards
to the eating part, my grandma is very fussy and on top of that,
she keeps Kosher as she is Jewish and was brought up Orthodox.
I can just imagine the craziness she might cause a home health
aide or whoever!

I'm not sure about her financial situation....my dad would surely
know about that that's for sure.

 

[tigerjen]

bump