A different POV question (writerly)

[Guest]

There have been a couple threads lately discussing Point of view and they have me a bit confused. It has come to my attention that I have my points of view all screwed up. What I have always understood them to mean is this:


1st Person: My name is Sherlock Holmes and this is the story of how I, with the assistance of my friend Dr. Watson, solved The Case of the Purloined Panties.My actions will be the primary focus of the story, but Dr. Watson does follow me around and ask annoying questions from time to time. He is also a fairly good shot with a pistol and enjoys my fine violin playing.

2nd Person: My name is Dr. Watson and this is the story ofmy friend Sherlock Holmes and how he solved The Case of the Purloined Panties. I was there and saw everything and asked some pertinant questions but the story is primarily about Holmes, who is a brilliant deductive thinker, but a rather poor violinist.

3rd Person Hi. I'm Joe Schmoe. This is the story of Sherlock Holmes and how he and his friend Dr. Watson solved The Case of the Purloined Panties. Mr. Holmes, whom I like to call Sherl, is the main focus of the story, but Dr. Watson does follow him around and ask simple questions, though I don't know how he tolerates Holmes screeching violin. I, on the other hand had nothing to do with the story, I'm just relating it to you.

Am I completely screwed in the head or what?

Just trying to straighten myself out here.

 

[Liar]

Am I completely screwed in the head or what?

I think it takes more than a POV confusion for that.



1st: I, Sherlock Holmes, solve crimes.
2nd: You, Sherlock Holmes, solve crimes.
3rd: Sherlock Holmes solves crimes.

#L

 

[minsue]

Try checking here, Dran.

Your 2nd person is way off, but creative. I can see how you'd come up with it.

 

[brightlyiburn]

Point of view can be confusing. Like most other things in the literature portion of English class, the definitions and examples given in the textbook generally suck.

 

[Liar]

I think that all three of his examples, if actually written like that, are 1st perspective. Or am I way off?

 

[minsue]

I think that all three of his examples, if actually written like that, are 1st perspective. Or am I way off?

Nope, you're correct.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: A different POV question (writerly)

I think it takes more than a POV confusion for that.

1st: I'm Sherlock Holmes...

2nd: You're Sherlock Holmes...

3rd: He's Sherlock Holmes...

#L

Ok, now I'm even more confused. It's the 2nd person that has me baffled. I pretty much understand 1st and third.

What you are saying is 2nd person would be:

You are Sherlock Holmes. You are on your way to pick up Dr. Watson and investigate a the purloiniing of a case of panties. You arrive at Dr. Watson's home to find him locked in the bedroom, sniffing fresh panties. You arest him and go home to practice playing the violin.

 

[Liar]

Nope, you're correct.

If so, can a narrator in a 3rd POV story have a personality (but just refrain from ever talking about him/herself), or must it be an objective observer?

 

[Guest]

Try checking here, Dran.

Your 2nd person is way off, but creative. I can see how you'd come up with it.

That's the way the Sherlock Holmes stories were written.

 

[Liar]

Re: Re: Re: A different POV question (writerly)

Ok, now I'm even more confused. It's the 2nd person that has me baffled. I pretty much understand 1st and third.

What you are saying is 2nd person would be:

You are Sherlock Holmes. You are on your way to pick up Dr. Watson and investigate a the purloiniing of a case of panties. You arrive at Dr. Watson's home to find him locked in the bedroom, sniffing fresh panties. You arest him and go home to practice playing the violin.

Exactly. It's a pretty weird form, and rarely used. Almost never done very well.

 

[EarthquakeMan]

In third person omni, the Purloined Panties get to do the scream of the wild clitoris (interior monologue)

*cue jungle sounds*

 

[Guest]

If so, can a narrator in a 3rd POV story have a personality (but just refrain from ever talking about him/herself), or must it be an objective observer?

That was what I was getting at with the 3rd person example.

 

[Liar]

If so, can a narrator in a 3rd POV story have a personality (but just refrain from ever talking about him/herself), or must it be an objective observer?

I just decided this deserves a thread of it's own.


EDIT: ...or not. Thiought I was straying from the subject, but apparently not.

 

[yui]

If so, can a narrator in a 3rd POV story have a personality (but just refrain from ever talking about him/herself), or must it be an objective observer?

That would be the difference in the narrator and the protagonist, wouldn't it?

 

[oggbashan]

There have been a couple threads lately discussing Point of view and they have me a bit confused. It has come to my attention that I have my points of view all screwed up. What I have always understood them to mean is this:


1st Person: My name is Sherlock Holmes and this is the story of how I, with the assistance of my friend Dr. Watson, solved The Case of the Purloined Panties.My actions will be the primary focus of the story, but Dr. Watson does follow me around and ask annoying questions from time to time. He is also a fairly good shot with a pistol and enjoys my fine violin playing.

2nd Person: My name is Dr. Watson and this is the story ofmy friend Sherlock Holmes and how he solved The Case of the Purloined Panties. I was there and saw everything and asked some pertinant questions but the story is primarily about Holmes, who is a brilliant deductive thinker, but a rather poor violinist.

3rd Person Hi. I'm Joe Schmoe. This is the story of Sherlock Holmes and how he and his friend Dr. Watson solved The Case of the Purloined Panties. Mr. Holmes, whom I like to call Sherl, is the main focus of the story, but Dr. Watson does follow him around and ask simple questions, though I don't know how he tolerates Holmes screeching violin. I, on the other hand had nothing to do with the story, I'm just relating it to you.

Am I completely screwed in the head or what?

Just trying to straighten myself out here.

2nd Person: You are Sherlock Holmes and this is how you solved The Case of the Purloined Panties. You were there and you saw everything and answered some pertinant questions from that idiot Dr Watson but the story is primarily yours, you who is a brilliant deductive thinker, but you are a rather poor violinist.

3rd Person This is the story of Sherlock Holmes and how he and his friend Dr. Watson solved The Case of the Purloined Panties. Mr. Holmes is the main focus of the story, but Dr. Watson does follow him around and ask simple questions, and he tolerates Holmes screeching violin.

The scene opens in Holmes' flat at 22b Baker Street, London. The smog is swirling around the streets dimly visible through the smoke-begrimed windows. The sound of horses' hooves is strangely muffled as Holmes stands leaning against the mantelpiece puffing at his meerschaum. Watson is sitting in a leather chair scribbling notes on one of Holmes' previous cases when Holmes' announces:

"We have a client, Watson. Show him in."

"How did you know, Holmes?"

...



Og

 

[Liar]

That was what I was getting at with the 3rd person example.

Except you say "I, Joe Shmoe, is a person, and I'm telling you a story."

 

[Guest]

 

[minsue]

Except you say "I, Joe Shmoe, is a person, and I'm telling you a story."

Exactly. Still a first person narrative.

 

[Liar]

In scientific journals, no narator personality is present. Things are or are not.

But in stories involving human emotion (as most of the good stories here do), I distrust the notion of a dispassionate narator - the very choice of words used to describe a character passes a certain judgment.

I agree, I don't think any writer can do a narration that isn't have at least colored by that authors personality. But if I go out of my way to really shape the narrator, do things like toss in irony and non sequitir remarks in the text, reflections and musings, but still without ever mentioning an "I"... Is it still 3rd person?

 

[Guest]

Except you say "I, Joe Shmoe, is a person, and I'm telling you a story."

Ok, let me lear up my explanations and understand this is what I remeber from my english lit classes in high school.

1st person is the story told from the persective of the primary character in the story.

2nd Person is the story told from the perspective of a supporting character in the story but focused on the primary character. (as in Dr. Watson telling the story of Holmes)

3rd person is the story being told by an outside narrater who plays no part in the story itself.

Did that make sense?

 

[yui]

Ok, let me lear up my explanations and understand this is what I remeber from my english lit classes in high school.

1st person is the story told from the persective of the primary character in the story.

2nd Person is the story told from the perspective of a supporting character in the story but focused on the primary character. (as in Dr. Watson telling the story of Holmes)

3rd person is the story being told by an outside narrater who plays no part in the story itself.

Did that make sense?

Third person can be told from the perspective of the primary character.

First person is always told, "I went to the store. I was hit by a bus. I died."

Second person would be, "You went to the store. You were hit by a bus. You died."

Third person would be, "Yui went to the store. She was hit by a bus. She died."

 

[Liar]

That would be the difference in the narrator and the protagonist, wouldn't it?

Depends. I think a 1st person narrator-kinda figure can be completely separated from the protagonist ("Gather around, folks, and let me tell you a story. Come closer, don't be shy. Now, if I recall correctly, this happened in the year of 1517, the Year Of The Beaver...")

 

[tolyk]

Ok, let me lear up my explanations and understand this is what I remeber from my english lit classes in high school.

1st person is the story told from the persective of the primary character in the story.

2nd Person is the story told from the perspective of a supporting character in the story but focused on the primary character. (as in Dr. Watson telling the story of Holmes)

3rd person is the story being told by an outside narrater who plays no part in the story itself.

Did that make sense?

Makes sense, and sound right except the 2nd person part isn't very specific. The person who is narating in the 2nd person can never refer to self by I, else it is a first person story.

Lucifer wrote an amazing short story in 2nd. It was from the viewpoint of a stalker, felt kind of like a letter but got the point of the stalker across without ever mentioning him.

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

OK, let me ask this; Is it possible that I am confusing Point of View and Persctive? Is there a difference or are they the same thing?