A delicate question.

[brunette1989]

I'm not sure if this will come off as insensitve or not, but I certainly don't intend it to be. As a straight person I have difficulty sometimes in understanding the terms in the GLBT, particulary the term transgendered.
Just wondering if some people who describe themselves as transgender could answer these questions for me:

How do you know you actually want to BE the opposite sex? As opposed to being quite masculine for a girl or feminine for a boy

Before you transition are you interested in the same sex or opposite sex, and the same for after transitioning?

And does the term transgender mean you have undergone medical procedures or you appear to be your chosen sex?

Thank you in advance, hope I haven't offended anyone, just curious as it's an area that I have very little knowledge about.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Hmm. I started to answer this, and realised that the answers to your first question simply mad me feel sad, angry and frustrated. To answer that question would be a recital of my life-- there are times when I KNOW I am in the wrong body (female in my case) and times when I am perfectly okay with being "unusually masculine for a woman." I've had a lot of practice though, for most of my life there has been no medical procedure for female-to-male transition. I had to learn to live with it.

Your other questions are easier to answer.

Sexual preference is not part of gender identity. Whatever sex a person prefers in their birth body, they will continue to prefer after transition. Some transpeople prefer same sex, some are heterosexual, some are bisexual.

Transgender means that your inner identity is different than your body. There are hundreds of nuances, which can be a point of dissention with other transfolk. The medical procedures are risky and very very expensive, and not all of us are so lucky as to find ways to accomplish that. So we call those fortunate ones "Post-op" transfolk. Or even better, we simply call them "men" or "women."

 

[brunette1989]

Thanks for answering! It's one thing to read about this stuff on wikipedia but another thing to actually hear it from someone who has actually lived the life

 

[Etoile]

Sexual preference is not part of gender identity. Whatever sex a person prefers in their birth body, they will continue to prefer after transition. Some transpeople prefer same sex, some are heterosexual, some are bisexual.

I would like to add that sometimes people do change their preferences after transition. A friend of mine was a dyke as a young adult, and now he is a gay man. For some reason he just prefers cock to pussy now. He has never been bisexual to my knowledge. He describes this phenomenon as a "same-sex attraction" - that he is wired to like those who are the same gender he is, rather than being wired to prefer women or men in particular. I dunno if this is scientifically recognized or not, but that's how he describes it.

But for the most part, sexual orientation and gender identity are completely separate.

 

[sfla]

As someone who has started transitioning, I have not found my sexual preferences changing (still attracted to women and men to the same degree), but what has changed is how others perceive my sexuality. What was once queer is not so queer anymore, and vice versa.

While I can say "that is their problem, not mine" and be correct, it still has an effect on who I end up sleeping with.

 

[none2_none2]

I'm not sure if this will come off as insensitve or not, but I certainly don't intend it to be. As a straight person I have difficulty sometimes in understanding the terms in the GLBT, particulary the term transgendered.
...

Thank you in advance, hope I haven't offended anyone, just curious as it's an area that I have very little knowledge about.

I think it is commendable that you want to know about other areas that you do not understand. realize that there are plenty of us in certain segments of the LBGT that don't understand the other segments of the alphabet soup that makes up the all encompassing non-straight community.

I probably will never truly understand the trans segment myself. I love being a male even if I'm not the butchest thing one could meet. However, if tomorrow I woke up being a female I would simply take advantage of it. Now, as a top, I would have no interest in having a penis or anything stuck up my ass or a vagina if I had one. So I'm not talking about some sexual masturbatory fantasy of being the opposite sex for a day. I also dont' have any secret desire to have breasts, to have less muscle mass, to look "pretty", to have to deal with monthly cycles, or to live in a society where women are still not equals in various areas of life. In other words, I don't secretly hide the desire to be or pass as a female in any way, shape, or form.

However, as an infertile male, if I were to wake up as a fertile female tomorrow, I'd be very tempted to go visit a sperm bank and have a child. I'm not trying to make light of the life-endangering nature of pregnancy, nor parental responsibilty after birth. Rather I think people forget that just like sexual preference/orientation is distinct from gender identity, so is the desire to reproduce. There are straights who have no desire to procreate nor adopt. There are gay/lesbian people who may wish to procreate. Many people assume that being gay means you never wanted to sire kids. That just isn't true for all gay people. Having known I was infertile since the age of about 25 (long story), I have always felt inferior and defective. I wanted to sire children since I was a pre-teen. So if femaleness would have included fertility, I would have accept it.

Anyway back to transgendered... I explained my feelings on fertility to put in perspective where I'm coming from in terms of not understanding transgenderhood. I think the difficulty of understanding them is for those who have never had kids, but want to remove their sexual organs. Obviously, just as I stated earlier not all str8's, bi's, gays want kids, but it is always an option if they change their mind. However, it isn't an option at all, if you have your parts surgically removed. That is the main part, I've always struggled to understand.

Now plenty of transgendered people have had kids. I'm sure they have to deal with the emotional trauma they fear they might inflict on their children and spouses if they then surgically change gender. Taking aside that fear of hurting loved ones, I guess I could related to wanting to change once you have had children. They have had the experience of reproducing. So if they do remove their parts at that time, there is nothing that they have not experienced in their former gender. They have taken their gender parts to their complete potential so to speak.

Anyway, I know it is a weird perspective, but it is an honest one. I simply cannot fathom anybody not wanting to permanently removing the option to "ever" be a bioloical parent. That doesn't mean I think laws should be enacted to prevent it. I simply do not "get it".

I will say that I have not known any transgendered people that well. There was one who I would see quite frequently when I used to go to a gay-friendly church. She did share a story that was very touching... As a very young boy child she once tried on her mother's shoes. Her mother spanked her severly for that "transgression". So in her mind, she spent the next few decades trying to be the "man" that her mother and father expected her to be.

She felt that love from others was only possible if she followed THEIR expectations. After all (in her mind) her mother was willing to stop loving her for something as simple as wearing the wrong shoes. Unconditional love was not something she felt that she had ever experienced. I'm probably not doing a very good job of telling the story, but the point was she couldn't live for other's expectations for the rest of her life. She just couldn't keep that up. Luckily, I think her parents did finally come around when she finally did undergo the change in her 40's.

 

[Stella_Omega]

As his words show, none2-none2 is not transgendered. Bless his little heart.

Not everyone should have kids. Not everyone needs to have kids, not everyone wants to have kids. Some of us have other more pressing concerns.

The procreative urge has nothing to do with my gender dysphoria. it existed for me, yes, but put me at odds with my selfhood in very uncomfortable ways. I have borne two children, and breast fed them for three years each-- all the while dealing with the knowledge that I am a man inside. Although I loved being their mother, I can tell you that I have dealt with some very serious depression and sensory dysfunction as a result--i don't always feel like I'm in my body.

I am quite sure that I would have been healthier in mind if I had know that the transition would become more possible if only I held out and resisted my bodies biological urges-- which, let's face it, have very little to do with my own soul's needs.

 

[Etoile]

Some people want/have kids when they are cisgendered.
Some people want/have kids when they are transgendered.

Some people don't want/have kids when they are cisgendered.
Some people don't want/have kids when they are transgendered.

I have known MTF women who have frozen their sperm for later procreation, and FTM men who have ceased hormones and given birth, then recontinued their hormones. Personally, I am cisgendered and do not have or want kids. Everybody's different.

 

[Stella_Omega]

OP wanted personal narrative.
I'm willing to offer that.

 

[Etoile]

OP wanted personal narrative.
I'm willing to offer that.

Was this directed at me? I was just responding to none2. I don't think being cis precludes anyone from participating in the thread, does it? I clearly stated that I'm cisgendered.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Was this directed at me? I was just responding to none2. I don't think being cis precludes anyone from participating in the thread, does it? I clearly stated that I'm cisgendered.

Ah, sorry! I'm feeling a bit uneven these days-- taking shit personally when I shouldn't.

 

[Etoile]

Ah, sorry! I'm feeling a bit uneven these days-- taking shit personally when I shouldn't.

No worries at all - I have days like that all the time. Maybe even most of the time.
*hugs*

 

[infinity706]

Honestly, I'd like to be a woman. I just wouldn't want to be full time. I'd prefer the power to switch between male and female, depending on which one would be more useful at the moment. Now, as for the orientation, I like men and women, both.

 

[brunette1989]

In response to none2, I have never considered wanting to have children a reason for changing your sexual idenity. I knew a few gay and lesbian couples when I was little and they had children from previous marriages and I thought they were great parents. As for me well I've always wanted children more than anything and I don't believe that would change if I were another sexual orientation other than straight. I believe that no matter a persons sexual idenity they would still have the same basic wants and needs.

 

[Stella_Omega]

He describes this phenomenon as a "same-sex attraction" - that he is wired to like those who are the same gender he is, rather than being wired to prefer women or men in particular.

That makes sense to me, what a good way to put it!

 

[Sara_Unknown]

What I would like to add about being trans...is the fact that our brains ARE physical, and "feeling" the opposite gender to what we are designated at birth is not a passing mood or emotion (sexual whim or fancy or fetish). It is a fundamental, biological fact of how we were shaped in the womb...with all the emotional, spiritual and psychological consequences one could expect as we grow up into society as individuals trying to live and understand ourselves.

The changes we make...are not from "male" to "female", or "female" to "male", except in a totally surface way. I have always been female.

It wasn't about sex or clothes or any role I wanted to play....I'm a terrible actor and poor liar....estrogen and testosterone suppressants made me think clearer; I felt calmer, more coherent and organized in my thoughts...I could feel and express in a way that had once been so frustrated and numb. The light that went off when I first went through puberty began to come back on.

It can only be understood as a physical and biological fact that exists in a wide and varying way across the spectrum of gender and sexuality and individual experience.

 

[brunette1989]

What I would like to add about being trans...is the fact that our brains ARE physical, and "feeling" the opposite gender to what we are designated at birth is not a passing mood or emotion (sexual whim or fancy or fetish). It is a fundamental, biological fact of how we were shaped in the womb...with all the emotional, spiritual and psychological consequences one could expect as we grow up into society as individuals trying to live and understand ourselves.

The changes we make...are not from "male" to "female", or "female" to "male", except in a totally surface way. I have always been female.

It wasn't about sex or clothes or any role I wanted to play....I'm a terrible actor and poor liar....estrogen and testosterone suppressants made me think clearer; I felt calmer, more coherent and organized in my thoughts...I could feel and express in a way that had once been so frustrated and numb. The light that went off when I first went through puberty began to come back on.

It can only be understood as a physical and biological fact that exists in a wide and varying way across the spectrum of gender and sexuality and individual experience.

SO do you think that for transgender people that something has gone wrong during the creating process and for some reason the wrong chromosome (male or female) was put into the DNA?
lol that's not very scientific but the best way I could try and explain my thoughts.

 

[CandiCame]

Some people want/have kids when they are cisgendered.
Some people want/have kids when they are transgendered.

Some people don't want/have kids when they are cisgendered.
Some people don't want/have kids when they are transgendered.

I have known MTF women who have frozen their sperm for later procreation, and FTM men who have ceased hormones and given birth, then recontinued their hormones. Personally, I am cisgendered and do not have or want kids. Everybody's different.

What's cisgendered? •feels stupid•

 

[Safe_Bet]

What's cisgendered? •feels stupid•

FGI, dude! **THINKS you're stupid!**

 

[brunette1989]

What does cisgendered and FGI mean?

 

[Etoile]

Cisgendered means being happy with the gender you were given at birth. If you're a girl, you're happy being a girl; if you're a boy, you're happy being a boy.

I believe FGI means Fucking Google It.

 

[infinity706]

SO do you think that for transgender people that something has gone wrong during the creating process and for some reason the wrong chromosome (male or female) was put into the DNA?
lol that's not very scientific but the best way I could try and explain my thoughts.

I guess it could have something to do with critical period hormones. There's a period in early pregnancy where biological sex appearance happens. If someone that was supposed to be female is exposed to an unusually high amount of testosterone then, she'll have male genitals. If someone that was supposed to be male isn't exposed to enough testosterone, he'll be born with female genitals. That doesn't apply to the sperm transport tubes, the uterus, uterine tubes, or the vagina, though. The female ones are destroyed by the Y chromosome (the only other thing it ever does is cause testosterone spikes). The male ones are destroyed if there isn't a testosterone spike. If you end up somewhere in the middle, that's where hermaphrodites come from.

Of course, it would be unethical to actually study it in humans, but I'd assume transgendered would happen if there was enough of a disturbance in the proper hormones to fool the brain, but not enough to physically change someone's sex.

The exact nature vs nurture is hard to determine, though. Sexual orientation and gender aren't perfectly aligned even in identical twins. That definately does make the shit storm over cloning kind of pointless other than as a lab experiment, though. Even if someone cloned 100,000 of the same person, all you'd accomplish is having a bunch of people that look the same and are likely to have somewhat similar medical histories.

It does fuck with the homophobia thing, though. Even if you only had sex with one person, there's a small chance you just fucked a same sex person.

 

[Sara_Unknown]

SO do you think that for transgender people that something has gone wrong during the creating process and for some reason the wrong chromosome (male or female) was put into the DNA?
lol that's not very scientific but the best way I could try and explain my thoughts.

Details schmetails! But yes..that is my assertion, more or less. Something happened to make me like me...and I am pretty sure I am me...but if I'm not, well it's pretty good right now so I'll take it anyways.

About the only thing I can speak to is my own experience....that my brain took to estrogen like a fish in water....

Had someone asked me directly when I was young...and explained that people could actually be a different gender than the one they appeared to be...I imagine it would have clicked pretty quickly. I mean I wasn't all about dolls and dresses, that was never my story...but the confusion and wants and desires were all there...I just didn't know what they meant (being of a creative mind, I could pretty much rationalize anything I thought or felt).

As for nature vs nurture...well the nurture part is just all the things I have had to deal with in my life and relationships, through therapy and growing pains and changes...just like anybody else in this world. My "nature" went through many experiences that affected who I was growing up, and as an adult...but it did not make me transgendered.

The many, many sessions with my psychologist would have hopefully and likely have weeded out any severe issues that would have me grasping at such a radical step as transition to solve them. There is just so much that you have to go through...so many obstacles and difficulties and embarrassing situations. And a quiet introvert who hates attention like I do (hates needing help, hates being noticed, hates being different....being singled out for any reason, good or bad) would have run in horror.

The only way to go through transition is to find an understanding of who you are and what YOU want...what YOU feel. I have not gone through a process of trying to BE anything...it's more a step by step of relaxing INTO the person I am and can be.

It takes a lot of work to sort out what is truth and what is not. It's really the same for every single person in this world, one way or another.

And I have been blessed in many ways...and frankly, being who I am forces a lot of growth and self-work that I am quite grateful for. I am also thankful to be alive now and not 30 or 40 years ago. It's not all acceptance but I am certainly part of a generation (and country... Canada) that is much more open to issues of sexuality and gender...though there is a long, long way to go.

 

[infinity706]

Hmm. I started to answer this, and realised that the answers to your first question simply mad me feel sad, angry and frustrated. To answer that question would be a recital of my life-- there are times when I KNOW I am in the wrong body (female in my case) and times when I am perfectly okay with being "unusually masculine for a woman." I've had a lot of practice though, for most of my life there has been no medical procedure for female-to-male transition. I had to learn to live with it.

Your other questions are easier to answer.

Sexual preference is not part of gender identity. Whatever sex a person prefers in their birth body, they will continue to prefer after transition. Some transpeople prefer same sex, some are heterosexual, some are bisexual.

Transgender means that your inner identity is different than your body. There are hundreds of nuances, which can be a point of dissention with other transfolk. The medical procedures are risky and very very expensive, and not all of us are so lucky as to find ways to accomplish that. So we call those fortunate ones "Post-op" transfolk. Or even better, we simply call them "men" or "women."

So, what medical procedure would you go for now, though? Would it be better to get a dick transplant or have one grown in a laboratory (possible, but not done in humans yet)? They're both within the realm of possibility nowdays, although, I still like the chicks with dicks and men with cunts.

 

[Etoile]

So, what medical procedure would you go for now, though? Would it be better to get a dick transplant or have one grown in a laboratory (possible, but not done in humans yet)? They're both within the realm of possibility nowdays, although, I still like the chicks with dicks and men with cunts.

They're not exactly possible. Penis transplantation from human cadavers has only been done a couple of times and it was barely successful. Lab-grown has not been done in humans yet. More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_transplantation