A country where spouse abuse is *somewhat* tollerated

[angela146]

OK, I'm writing a story.

Does anyone know of a country in today's world (2006) where wives are not treated like slaves but yet spousal rape isn't a crime and corporal punishment is allowed?

In other words, I'm specifically *not* looking for a country that turns a blind eye to honor killings nor am I looking for a country where a man can flog his wife in the public square because her ankles were exposed.

I'm looking for a society that is more akin to the way things were in the US before the women's movement (or maybe back in the turn of the 20th century); a place where "Ricki spanking Lucy" would be viewed as a valid example of a husband exercising his authority and where a woman who refuses to have sex with her husband is perhaps breaking the law.

Sure, I could simply invent a country or take my story back in time or whatever, but I would prefer to have a dose or reality.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

OK, I'm writing a story.

Does anyone know of a country in today's world (2006) where wives are not treated like slaves but yet spousal rape isn't a crime and corporal punishment is allowed?

In other words, I'm specifically *not* looking for a country that turns a blind eye to honor killings nor am I looking for a country where a man can flog his wife in the public square because her ankles were exposed.

I'm looking for a society that is more akin to the way things were in the US before the women's movement (or maybe back in the turn of the 20th century); a place where "Ricki spanking Lucy" would be viewed as a valid example of a husband exercising his authority and where a woman who refuses to have sex with her husband is perhaps breaking the law.

Sure, I could simply invent a country or take my story back in time or whatever, but I would prefer to have a dose or reality.

Actually, I believe I have read somewhere that in some states in the USA, a man raping his wife is NOT considered rape. yet to this day... And as for the legal matters of spousal abuse, heck, you don't have to invent all that much - today, in most countries, a man who beats up his wife can get off on a technicality.

I'll never get over the case in Sweden where a woman's divorce proceedings weren't done until AFTER the trial against the man for spousal abuse, and the woman had to give back 50% of the money that the court had ordered the man to pay in fines for the abuse - because Swedish divorce law says that you have to share the financial assetts equally when you get a divorce!!!

 

[Pure]

it seems to me that England 1880-1910 would fit. similarly France.

a western society before women had much rights or the vote--but did have the 'right' not to be killed. and they could walk about, though the young maidens had chaperones.

i don't think refusing sex would break the law, but it would be grounds for divorce, and the man keeps the kids. ALSO, since the rape laws excluded wives being taken by husbands, he has the option of forceing the issue. these laws are on the books till latter 20th century.

ADDED 11-12: These remarks do not apply to the specification that the country/place exist in 2006. Sorry about mis reading.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

First of all, Oregon has a law on the books making spousal rape the same felony as any other rape. That said, I believe there are a couple of states in the south that still do not recognize spousal rape.

The only countries that fit you discription are in the middle east, although women are treated much like chattle.

In much of northern south and central america spousal rape is not even recognized.

As far as public flogging is concerned, again the only countries I can think of are again in the middle east and we know how women are treated there.

If you go back to the 17th Century, the U.S. would fit rather well, though.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I think Brazil has some pretty uneven laws for spouses. I'm pretty sure that the husband is allowed to kill his wife if he catches her cheating on him.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I think Brazil has some pretty uneven laws for spouses. I'm pretty sure that the husband is allowed to kill his wife if he catches her cheating on him.

Especially if he finds out he's been married to another guy for 5 years

 

[Misty_Morning]

it seems to me that England 1880-1910 would fit. similarly France.

a western society before women had much rights or the vote--but did have the 'right' not to be killed. and they could walk about, though the young maidens had chaperones.

i don't think refusing sex would break the law, but it would be grounds for divorce, and the man keeps the kids. ALSO, since the rape laws excluded wives being taken by husbands, he has the option of forceing the issue. these laws are on the books till latter 20th century.

There was a internet site a few years ago that had scanned and uploaded a bunch of US newspapers from the late 1700 and early 1800. It was not uncommon for husbands to post ads looking for their wives who had run away because they refused to service them and got tired of getting beaten. Some ads actually requested that whoever finds the runaways to please beat them severely prior to contacting the husband.

 

[ishtat]

Married women in UK had no legal capacity to own property prior to the Married Womens Property Act 1882. Until then all womens posessions were the property of their husbands and therefore through that provision they were inn reality the property of their husbands.

I have the original of a will of my Gt Gt Gt Gt Gt Grandfather (a farmer in Somerset) dated 1720 in which he referred to "all my goods chattels livestock and wife "

A modern society in which women have very few rights is Japan.Until a year or two ago it was illegal for a Japanese woman to obtain the contraceptive pill.They also have limited rights on divorce unless they marry a foreignor resident in Japan in which case they have a lot more especiallly with respect to child custody.

 

[AngelofDarkLust]

You might check Spain and Italy. While I don't believe it is morally tolerated I do not believe it is illegall to rape one's spouse.

 

[Weird Harold]

OK, I'm writing a story.

Does anyone know of a country in today's world (2006) where wives are not treated like slaves but yet spousal rape isn't a crime and corporal punishment is allowed?

Argentina? It think I recall an article from about two or three years ago about them finally legalizing divorce under very limited reasons, not including spousal abuse -- about two decades after they gave women the right to vote.

Amost any heavily Catholic country tends to have laws that reflect Church doctrine with respect to women's rights.

ETA: Idon't mean to imply that Catholic countries are the only places where you'll find that a heavy religious influence correlates to minimal women's rights, but most of the other religions that influence women's rights are much more restrictive than you're looking for than Roman Catholicism.

 

[Liar]

I think Brazil has some pretty uneven laws for spouses. I'm pretty sure that the husband is allowed to kill his wife if he catches her cheating on him.

Recently repealed and reformed, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Try Eastern Europe...the nations that make up the former Soviet Union.

 

[keyala]

Try South Korea. Yes, I said South, not North. At least if you're looking for a psuedo-modern situation. (Though interesting point: North Korea has recently implemented a law where WOMEN can file for a divorce. Doesn't mean they get it, but hey. North Korea + rights for women = Big Step.) You said you didn't want anything overly extreme. So try South Korea, where a woman slapped in public across the face is allowed if she was yelling at her spouse OR long-term boyfriend in said public forum. Where an abused woman and child's cigarette burned and scarred arms are politely ignored in public. And, of course, where it is part of a man's job to drink, smoke, and fight in public every night, occasionally be so drunk as to sleep in his car all night and wear the same suit to the office, and where women are subject to community censure for smoking in public, revealing midriff, cleavage, and shoulders (media figures mysteriously don't count), and if you need anything done, you better bring a man because women are incapable of independent thought or comprehension.

There are good things about the country; this isn't meant as slander in any way. There are groups working to change things. And some of the laws are changing. But law and tradition are two different things. The latter in a community prevents the actibility of the prior.

Long and short? Try South Korea.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Angela

Spousal rape only started to be a crime in parts of the US and Europe in the 1970s. Still today, there are very few convictions, penalties are less than for date or stranger rape and proof - without signs of physical abuse - is very difficult. Under European Union legislation, all members countries must treat spousal rape and domestic abuse as crimes.

Without really 'going back in time', you could go for the US in the 70s.

'Spousal rape' is a very new (and welcome) concept -even though few people have considered the effect on the philosophy of marriage. Until fairly recently, women were 'owned' - that is, a father transferred ownership of his daughter to a husband, and the wedding band was a physical symbol of the change of ownership. How could a wife be raped - her body was the 'property' of her husband? He had conjugal rights and she must accept - consent was implied. 'Lie back and think of England', as one UK cliche of conjugal submission puts it.

Similarly, physical abuse has long been illegal, but appropriate chastisement of one's wife and servants was acceptable. A bare-bottom spanking in front of the servants would be perfectly all right. Fathers spanking girls and husbands spanking wives - without consent - was legal until very recently.

Even today, in some very fundamental US states and Catholic parts of Southern Europe, it is considered the wife's duty to 'accommodate' the physical needs of her husband.

You don't, like the demure and reticent Jenny Jackson, have to look at the Midd le East for this problem.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Try Eastern Europe...the nations that make up the former Soviet Union.

Kazakhstan?

Sorry, we just went to see Borat last night.

"You mean woman has right to choose who she have sexy time with?"

 

[angela146]

Without really 'going back in time', you could go for the US in the 70s.

I guess the problem for me is that I don't remember enough about the 1970's to be able to place myself back there. I was born in 1975.

For me, 1974 is just as historical as 1954. Writing a story in that time frame is pure fantasy. I have never been there, I can't ever go there.

On the other hand, if I write about some current-day place, it adds an edge to it. It gives me (and the reader) something to be afraid of.

In real life, my husband is a high-school teacher and I am a consultant. During the summer, when he has time off, I often take him along on my business trips.

The story I am thinking of writing is, "Suppose we travel to wherever for a couple of weeks. While I'm at my client during the day, Hubby learns about the laws/culture of the place and decides to take advantage of the situation."

If this is about a real place, the story has an extra edge to it. What happens if my husband (or the reader's husband) reads the story? Could this really happen to me?

You may remember the movie "Not Without My Daughter" staring Sally Field. That's a much more drastic case of what I'm describing and, at least for me, it's too scary to be erotic. I wouldn't set foot in that country no matter how much they paid me.

But, if there were a place that was more like the US was in the 1950's - and if I knew that I could come back - I might be tempted to spend a week there with my husband.

 

[angela146]

Try South Korea. Yes, I said South, not North. At least if you're looking for a psuedo-modern situation. (Though interesting point: North Korea has recently implemented a law where WOMEN can file for a divorce. Doesn't mean they get it, but hey. North Korea + rights for women = Big Step.) You said you didn't want anything overly extreme. So try South Korea, where a woman slapped in public across the face is allowed if she was yelling at her spouse OR long-term boyfriend in said public forum. Where an abused woman and child's cigarette burned and scarred arms are politely ignored in public. And, of course, where it is part of a man's job to drink, smoke, and fight in public every night, occasionally be so drunk as to sleep in his car all night and wear the same suit to the office, and where women are subject to community censure for smoking in public, revealing midriff, cleavage, and shoulders (media figures mysteriously don't count), and if you need anything done, you better bring a man because women are incapable of independent thought or comprehension.

There are good things about the country; this isn't meant as slander in any way. There are groups working to change things. And some of the laws are changing. But law and tradition are two different things. The latter in a community prevents the actibility of the prior.

Long and short? Try South Korea.

Interesting... I'll do some research. Thanks for the lead!

 

[Pure]

in line with Keyala's lead, i'd suggest Taiwan. i've talked to a number of persons from there and it's extremely conservative.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Angela

Got it! Try Italy 2006 - south, educated but very family-orientated. Despite the legislation and education, a Napolitan, even a Roman wife just accepts that hubbie is the power at home.

The US female exec meets with female world-reknowned Italian immunologist. In conversations outside the power talks, older Italian woman explains why submitting sexually and for discipline to her husband is part of the culture.

US exec suddenly understands that bringing her NOW-stance back home has emasculated her stay-at-home hubbie and she realizes that she craves...

I know the setting is right for Italian wives. Ask Aurora about Greek wives, but I think it is the same.

PM me if you think I can help in any way.

Elle

 

[Pure]

Does this sound like what you're looking for?

http://www.cheesedip.com/2004/05/17/check_out_the_vatican_being_all_ironic_and_shit.php


I'm Philippine-born, but I haven't lived their in such a long, long time and mainly know what's happening presently there through relatives, friends, short trips (which I rarely go nowadays...), and of course the internet. I just want to know how did you manage to survive living in The Philippines? Especially with the dominant power the Catholic Church has on Philippine society and government. Committing adultery is considered a crime? Even though, divorce is illegal? I mean how conflicted is that?

Don't even get me started on contraceptives (You see how the Church gave a lot of flack to Arroyo for her past use of contraceptive pills? Ugh! Then they wonder why they have problems with overpopulation - 12 kids and parents have no jobs.)...and you know how hard it is to find tampons in The Philippines?! Supposedly, it's EVIL to use tampons. I didn't use the tampons, a friend ran out during a vacation trip, and we staked out EVERY store (exxagerating...) in the Pangasinan province...WE DIDN'T FIND ANY!

I would love to move back to The Philippines one day, but considering that the only Progressives that I know of are close knit of friends, my relatives, and a few aquaintances...it's kind of hard thinking of living in a country which social views conflict with mine.
Also...what's with this employment discrimination...like every job ad in Philippine newspapers have it listed as a MUST that you have to be at least 5'3" to work there (also pretty, since beauty rules over brains there...). God forbid, you're 5' 1" and with a brain.

[quote removed per request of author]

 

[Pure]

i think you want a kind of 'time warp' place.

Considering some of the above postings, and looking around at countries in terms of women's status, health, fertility.

Here are some possibilities, some mentioned by other posters, above:

Ireland
*Rep. of Moldova
*Romania

*Guatemala
*Bolivia
Peru

Kenya {i'm not considering most of the poor African countries}

[*?]Philippines,
Republic of Korea
Taiwan

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Some of the countries above are simply desperately poor, which generally does NOT help women's situation; I have asterisked them.
The remaining ones are of interest in terms of persistence of tradition.