A cause worth fighting for:Boy's violent poetry isn't criminal, court rules

[BlackSnake]

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Suggesting school officials overreacted, the California Supreme Court on Thursday unanimously overturned the conviction of a 15-year-old boy for writing a poem that suggested he might kill fellow students.

"What is readily apparent is that much of the poem plainly does not constitute a threat," Justice Carlos Moreno wrote for the seven-member court in a dispute that pitted free speech rights against the government's responsibility to provide safe schools.

The San Jose boy, identified only as George T. in court records, was expelled from his high school and served 100 days in juvenile hall after passing the poem around in English class in 2001.

At issue in the case was a law that is usually invoked in domestic violence cases and carries up to year in prison. It says a person can be prosecuted only if the threat conveys the "immediate prospect" of being carried out. Lower courts found that the poem met that definition.

One passage read: "For I can be the next kid to bring guns to kill students at school" and "For I am Dark, Destructive & Dangerous."

The justices noted the poem said the boy "can" be the next kid to bring guns to school -- not that he would.

The case had been closely watched by groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union, which argued that the boy should be free to "write about disturbing subject matter without fear that he will be punished should his work be misinterpreted."

The boy, now 18, argued that he had no violent intentions and that he regarded poetry as an artistic means of describing emotions "instead of acting them out." Prosecutors had contended the First Amendment does not protect criminal threats, even when they are tucked into a poem.

Prosecutor Jeffrey Laurence noted that the boy circulated the poem 11 days after a student another California high school killed two classmates and wounded 13 others in a shooting rampage.

But defense attorney Michael Kresser told the justices that the boy's prosecution was an overreaction.
(CNN.COM)


Are you afraid to write fiction?

 

[jeanne_d_artois]

Are you afraid to write fiction?

No. Because I don't live in the US.

(Actually I don't exist at all except as the figment of another nom-de-plume's imagination.)

Jeanne

 

[Liar]

One passage read: "For I can be the next kid to bring guns to kill students at school" and "For I am Dark, Destructive & Dangerous."

Are you afraid to write fiction?

In high school I took a creative writings course. One of our assignments (yes, the idea came from our teacher) was to write a bomb threat against the school in poetry form. If those lines were typical for that kids poem, I must say that he's got nothing on us. Compared to what some of us came up with, "I am Dark, Destructive & Dangerous." sounds pretty damn meek. The headmaster saw our poems. He was not amused by the message. But he was pretty inpressed by the quality of our demonic writings.


No, I am not afraid to write fiction, or anything else for that matter.

#L

 

[BlackSnake]

I'm being to wonder if we really do have free speech in this country.

 

[shereads]

Under the Patriot Act, you have free speech provided you are willing to risk someone in power misunderstanding something you say or write, interpreting it as support of terrorism, and using their unprecedented power to lock you up, indefinitely, as a federal witness under "protective custody." By not charging you with a crime, they avoid the constitutional requirement that you be allowed to appear before a judge to plead your case, or talk to an attorney.

As for violent speech in high schools, the subject is a gray area for me. I can imagine that, since the Columbine massacre, school administrators are hyper-aware of anything that might later be pointed to as a warning sign of real violence. In the case you posted, that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm not condoning the over-reaction, just saying that it's probably a response to the feeling that adults' jobs and reputations are on the line if they show any tolerance for "Columbine language."

Edited to add: translate this situation into the adult world of monitored communications that used to be private, and substitute an overreacting Homeland Security Dept. employee for an overreacting school administration, and the repercussions could be jail time for somebody who still believed in free expression.

 

[oggbashan]

During World War II, a local man was writing pro-Nazi leaflets and distributing them, as he had done for several years before the war.

He had even written a book in 1940 explaining that the war was a mistake and Herr Hitler would leave Britain alone if we sued for peace. He was an officer in the British Armed Forces.

His works proposed sterilisation of the Jews and other non-Aryan races and that Britain should do this unilaterally.

He was arrested after Dunkirk and interned with 'enemy aliens'. He was given a medical discharge and a pension from the services. He was given a typewriter and materials during his internment and he continued to write, and allowed to correspond with others who thought as he did. Those he wrote to were watched but not arrested because they did not express their views publicly. Thinking was not a crime even in wartime.

After the war he continued to write claiming that Hitler was misunderstood, the 'final solution' was carried out by over-enthusiatic underlings, and that the war was a mistake that had allowed Communism to occupy much of Europe. He couldn't find a publisher. He wrote books on popular history, some of which became school text books, but wisely his history stopped short at 1914.

He survived until the 1990s. When he died his unpublished books of hatred were found in a suitcase. They were destroyed by his relations, not because of their message, but because they were unreadable. They sold the letters he had received from Hitler, Goebbels and other members of the Nazi regime and gave the proceeds to a cancer charity. (He had died of cancer)

He didn't have important connections. He wasn't rich. He was just a middle-class nut-case. The British Security Services treated him as mad, not bad.

Contrast that with the McCarthy era in the US.

Og

PS. Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' was available in the UK either in the original German or in a good unexpurgated translation throughout WWII.

 

[BlackSnake]

I can understand making parents of the child and teachers aware of harsh/violent language in writting, but I think it goes too far to expell a child for expressing himself.

Think: Is it a cry for help? Is it creative expression? Are they creating an atmosphere where children hide their feelings, so that acts really come as a surprise? Will trouble kids hide the emotions from even their closest friends?

 

[trendyredhead]

I'd also wonder if it was a way for him to try to understand these other children and what they might have been feeling or what could drive them to do such horrible things. Or a coping mechanism, perhaps? Some kids might act out when disturbed by something, others write, still others bottle it up and go crazy later. Writing doesn't seem like such a bad outlet for emotions.

But then again, I can still remember getting in trouble in 4th grade when my teacher caught me writing "I HATE SCHOOL" in big bold red letters on a piece of paper. There was no discussion - no "what's going on, why do you feel that way" conversation - just take the paper away and act like it never happened.

 

[snooper]

I'm being to wonder if we really do have free speech in this country.

In short, no you don't. You have to pay a lot in taxes for your freedom, and then the government uses a proportion of those taxes to limit what you can say.

If you doubt this, try standing on a box in Times Square and proclaiming (in English) that the 9/11 terrorists are now enjoying their 76 virgins each in paradise (self repairing, presumably) because they did the will of God.

Or try advocating the lowering of the age of consent for sex to nil on this forum.

 

[Clare Quilty]

Re: Re: A cause worth fighting for:Boy's violent poetry isn't criminal, court rules

No. Because I don't live in the US.

Lucky you.

 

[Clare Quilty]

During World War II, a local man was writing pro-Nazi leaflets and distributing them, as he had done for several years before the war.

We had a guy like this too. His name was Henry Ford. He was an auto worker and raving anti-semite.

 

[oggbashan]

In short, no you don't. You have to pay a lot in taxes for your freedom, and then the government uses a proportion of those taxes to limit what you can say.

If you doubt this, try standing on a box in Times Square and proclaiming (in English) that the 9/11 terrorists are now enjoying their 76 virgins each in paradise (self repairing, presumably) because they did the will of God.

Or try advocating the lowering of the age of consent for sex to nil on this forum.

You can say all those things and more at Speakers' Corner near the Marble Arch in London.

You can insult anyone or everyone including the policemen who stop drunks in the crowd from beating you up.

You should not incite racial hatred but you probably will - and get away with it.

Speakers Corner has been used by priests, philosophers and many cranks. All that is needed is a box or ladder to stand on, a loud voice and a technique for dealing with hecklers.

You can do this in almost every town and city in the UK. Will anyone listen? There's the rub.

Og

 

[cantdog]

Expel!? He was incarcerated, for godsake

I can understand making parents of the child and teachers aware of harsh/violent language in writting, but I think it goes too far to expell a child for expressing himself.

Think: Is it a cry for help? Is it creative expression? Are they creating an atmosphere where children hide their feelings, so that acts really come as a surprise? Will trouble kids hide the emotions from even their closest friends?

Nonsense. Cry for help, my ass. And in the current United States climate of fear, yes! He or anyone ought to be VERY careful who they talk to, because finks abound and the fascists are in power.

The boy should be a warning to all of us. How much more of this garbage are we going to put up with? Prosecutor Jeffrey Lawrence is an ass!

Inexcusable! Throwing the kid in jail.


cantdog

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Yeah, that shit. One of three million four hundred and fifty-six thousand nine-hundred and forty-two reasons I despised high school. And it got worse after the shootings. After Columbine, freaks were persecuted against, policemen roamed campus to protect the smiling blonde-daddy's little angels as they bashed the skulls of the gay kids into pillars and watched them bleed. One of my friends was brought before the principal for talking about Final Fantasy 7 because he mentioned how cool a cinematic was and it was assumed to be a bomb threat because the cinematic happened to have an explosion in it. Anyone wearing black or was inclined to depression was treated as a potential threat. The bullies got an infusion of power. They could enrage to their hearts content and if we did as much as "look at them in a threatening manner" we got shipped off to Il Principal lie about how well-fucking-adjusted and conformist we really were. It was actually the straw that got one of my friends to try and swallow pills.

Given all this, this tale is not surprising. Life in high school is A Keseyian nightmare and has gotten a lot fucking worse since Columbine. I'm glad that almost all of my old group of friends are out of it.

 

[BlackSnake]

Yeah, that shit. One of three million four hundred and fifty-six thousand nine-hundred and forty-two reasons I despised high school. And it got worse after the shootings. After Columbine, freaks were persecuted against, policemen roamed campus to protect the smiling blonde-daddy's little angels as they bashed the skulls of the gay kids into pillars and watched them bleed. One of my friends was brought before the principal for talking about Final Fantasy 7 because he mentioned how cool a cinematic was and it was assumed to be a bomb threat because the cinematic happened to have an explosion in it. Anyone wearing black or was inclined to depression was treated as a potential threat. The bullies got an infusion of power. They could enrage to their hearts content and if we did as much as "look at them in a threatening manner" we got shipped off to Il Principal lie about how well-fucking-adjusted and conformist we really were. It was actually the straw that got one of my friends to try and swallow pills.

Given all this, this tale is not surprising. Life in high school is A Keseyian nightmare and has gotten a lot fucking worse since Columbine. I'm glad that almost all of my old group of friends are out of it.

I have two sister in-laws graduating high school. They are apart of their own crowd. They haven't been apart of so called jockey in crowd, nor did they go all goth. They have only been little more than polite to their peers. No kid parties, sporting events. They have treated high school like a job, not a real part of their lives. They have stuck together and giggle at their peers for trying to include them. They say that all they see is fear among all the clicks. They are far from being sweet little girls, they feel sorry for them all.

I think its really sad...kids suppose to feel safe in schools.

 

[Clare Quilty]

Re: Expel!? He was incarcerated, for godsake

Nonsense. Cry for help, my ass. And in the current United States climate of fear, yes! He or anyone ought to be VERY careful who they talk to, because finks abound and the fascists are in power.

The boy should be a warning to all of us. How much more of this garbage are we going to put up with? Prosecutor Jeffrey Lawrence is an ass!

Inexcusable! Throwing the kid in jail.


cantdog

You know, it's novels and poetry that make people unhappy. Such claptrap doesn't reflect real life. On the contrary the seditious rantings of so called artists are the very cause people's unhappiness with their lot and the impetus for impertinent questioning of the beneficent authority of the state. Hopefully, when all of this election nonsense is over, our great leader will issue a decree that books--all unregulated media for that matter--will be burned to the last.

 

[BlackSnake]

Hopefully, come January the most powerful man in the world will not misuse the Constitution of the United States.