A BDsM Classic Koan: Sado + Maso, or no?

[Technodivinitas]

It's a classic topic, but I'd love to hear what folks here at the Lit think.

If a Sadist enjoys causing suffering, and a Masochist enjoys suffering, then aren't they an unmatched pair, in the end?

In the case of my Master & I, it seems so. He's a true sadist, and I am not a masochist, at least, not in the physical sense. I don't dig pain of any sort just for it's own sake.

What I do dig is the power/control of someone strong enough and smart enough to make me willing to suffer it anyway. I enjoy that he can do these things to me even though I hate them. I enjoy nowdays that I will even desperately beg for him to hurt me, because I'm operantly conditioned to associate pain at his hands with affection & love. I'm all about the psychology of it.

And of course, he gets a huge kick out of knowing that I willingly endure so much for his amusement alone.

Other viewpoints on the Sado-maso combo?

 

[Netzach]

What do you call someone who gets a kick out of slapping, poking holes in, whacking, and bruising someone who does enjoy it, though?

I don't think I'm after suffering. I'm not always after pleasure either, I just enjoy the hell out of that process and I find I get to do more of it with someone who likes it than someone who hates it.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

... Other viewpoints on the Sado-maso combo?

The sadist can do absolutely nothing to the masochist, and drive the maso nuts.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I dont think masochists like suffering i think they get pleasure from what their suffering brings them. I cant find a way in my head to explain it, so ill give a very simple probably not so good example. I dont like banging my head against the wall just because....but i would if it pleased the person who controlled me. Someone sent me this on alt once, it explains alot of things, better then i can i think.

Pain for Pleasure

I am often asked why anyone would enjoy being hit just for the sake of being hit. Many people have told me they think because I am a masochist I must be self-destructive. They also are worried that since I'm into S&M, I'm probably a victim of violence and/or grave psychological damage. After all, how could any normal, sane, healthy person enjoy experiencing pain?

Is all pain good?

Well, first off, there is a vast difference between pain and erotic pain. And while masochists actually love certain types of pain, they are very particular about the pain they enjoy. Even a heavy-duty masochist is going to hate falling off a motorcycle. Slamming my finger in a car door does not turn me on. Neither does stubbing my toe or getting stung by a bee. If all it took were pain for the sake of pain to turn me on—I’d just sit around all day hitting my thumb with a hammer or banging my head into a wall.

Now, there are several theories floating around which try to explain why a masochist enjoys any kind of pain. One popular theory is that masochists may actually have a different type of nervous system than other people. Many seem to believe that the reason we can interpret pain as erotic involves the interaction of endorphins, enkephalins and the release of serotonin.

Perception of Pain

Others say the masochist enters a mental state where the pain is actually felt as anything but unpleasant. The pain is still painful, but that painful sensation creates such ecstasy that the masochist enters almost an altered state of consciousness. What most people don’t understand though is that the perception of pain does not diminish as the masochists system ‘adjusts’ to it. No matter how ecstatic or aroused they might be, most masochists are always aware that they are experiencing pain. It is just that the sensation of pain can bring on such an intensely erotic and blissful consciousness, they don’t want the pain to stop.. When I say I hate pain—I’m not lying or confused. I hate pain---but I absolutely love the way it makes me feel.

Another myth about pain is that people vary in their pain threshold. Research has proven that is not the case. Fact is most people begin to feel pain at almost exactly the same degree of stimulation. What is different though, is how each person reacts the pain. And each masochist reacts differently to different types of pain. What turns me on—might be a complete turnoff to someone else. Certain types of pain that might traumatize me can send another masochist into erotic orbit.

Also, it depends greatly on who is administering the pain. Should a friend of mine decide for some strange reason to slap me in the face, I’d be livid. That would be a completely non-erotic event for me. Chances are good I’d probably slap them right back. Yet, when my Mistress does it, I get so very hot. The relationship the masochist has with the sadist greatly affects their reaction to the pain. Instead of being something someone does to another…it becomes instead a profound journey of exploration they take with each other.

Athletes are masochists?

This idea of pain and arousal is not peculiar to S&M either. People have been known to endure many things, which carry an element of significant pain – certain religious practices or strenuous sports such as boxing, mountain climbing, and football for example. There may be a grave element of risk involved with some of these activities as well. So, why do people engage in these painful sports and activities? Because human beings, by their nature, constantly seek new challenges and discoveries. Why do masochists feel the need to challenge themselves, to push past their pain limits? For the same reasons as the athlete---for the challenge, the thrill and the emotional fulfillment. Actually, it could be said that most athletes are truly accomplished masochists. As a masochist, I want to be pushed and tested, to see how much pain I can take. But for me this is not much different then how I need to be pushed when I’m lifting weights. Left to my own devices I’d stop my incline presses at 75 lbs. Frankly that’s about all the pain I want to endure. But my trainer would be negligent (and I would develop) if he didn’t push me past that limit. In the case of S&M, it is my Master who guides me along further than I "know" I can go. He also knows when to slow down or when it’s important to try for more rep.

Proud of it

You see, way beyond the physiological effects, way beyond the endorphin/seratonon production, past all the elements of arousal and orgasmic delight, there is also a deeper psychological satisfaction that comes from enduring a rigorous session of pain. For me, it enhances my self-confidence and provides me with a marvelous sense of accomplishment. Masochism, for the self-assured masochist, is the knowledge that you can suffer through anything—be it a marathon bike race, a tough workout at the gym or a heavy duty S&M session-- enjoy it immensely and learn something about yourself in the process.

I am a submissive man and a masochist and I am proud to call myself that. I find sexual pleasure, emotional satisfaction, and joyous fulfillment from being submissive to my Mistress and enduring all the pain she gives me. I am not weak, or stupid. I am a strong man, with firm views and clear concepts of what I want out of life. I do not submit out of shame or weakness, but rather out of pride and strength.



So, am I ‘sick’? Well, I don’t happen to think so, but if I am—I don’t want the cure.

 

[Technodivinitas]

Masochist vs. Pain Slut

So, then I'm a Masochist after all? I always considered myself an "Emotional/Psychological" masochist, since I have definitely known more than a few painsluts who really seem to get off on the actual pain, whereas for me, begging for more/harder etc... spoils it, unless of course I'm being made to beg. Similarly, when I'm smut-surfing, it always ruins it for me when the bottom/victim/subject giggles, or sports a cheerleader grin. Hey- I think I need to start a new thread for this- "Different Types of Masochists" (And maybe one for Sadists, too!)

Right- I'm off to post that. Please don't stop the chatter on my account!

 

[Technodivinitas]

Distractable Me...

Here I let myself get distracted from the assorted responses I had to your post, KC! I'm such a flake sometimes. *L*

I have to say that while I agree with a lot of what the author you quoted was saying, (or rather, I experience similarly,) I have known many others whose experience with pain disagrees with it.

"...the perception of pain does not diminish as the masochists system ‘adjusts’ to it. No matter how ecstatic or aroused they might be, most masochists are always aware that they are experiencing pain."

Again, I disagree. Often I've found that relatively little pain can affect me very strongly early on in a scene, as things progress, it takes considerably more to get me to even recognize a pain-stimulus through all the pleasure. Emotional/psychological pain is the same way. And that escalation seems pretty wide-spread among bottoms, hence the "Harder, Harder" syndrome. Putting me on my knees and given me a stern look might work for a scene opener, but once the ball's rolling, my top will need to drag me through considerably deeper, darker mud.

"Another myth about pain is that people vary in their pain threshold. Research has proven that is not the case. Fact is most people begin to feel pain at almost exactly the same degree of stimulation."

Now here, I have to disagree much more strenuously- Pain threshold isn't about where pain begins, it's about the other end of the spectrum, I'd say- the place where it surpasses tolerance, and the points at which a given brain will emit pain-killers. At least, that's how I've always understood it.

It's a well-written piece on a masochist's PoV, although I think the author is a little too certain that what he feels is what
everyone or at least every masochist, feels.

 

[Kajira Callista]

here is how i explain it to people most of th time. Pain only "hurts" because someone told you it did.

That is how i see things when it comes to discussing pain thresholds. LOL i can tolerate alot of pain during play, but if i get a paper cut i whine for days about it... if the same paper cut was recieved by or wanted by the person i play with...i would be aroused everytime i looked at it. I probably confused you more now

This thread might be something of interest to you https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=245959

 

[Technodivinitas]

Not really-

I have a strange little fetish which I refer to as "Spontanious Auto-Sanguiphilia". Explained: I get totally fascinated, (not really turned on, but somewhat entranced) by my own blood. BUT- it only works when it's shed by someone else, and usually by accident. Most frequently, my feral cat. *L*