70% of American own homes, 65% are invested in stocks and bonds!

[amicus]

Just heard that on Fox Biz news and it somewhat startled me...as the numbers back in the 1970's were much smaller, 15% in the market...(Pure, get your own stats, just heard this)

For all the social democracies in Europe and all the critics of America and a free market economy, swallow those facts!

It is not the upper class three to five percent wealthy, that benefit from the market place or own their own homes, it is almost the entire middle class of America.

In other words, the system not only works well, it is superb and all the nation benefits from that nasty ole capitalist system.

How about them apples! Eat your heart out all you wimpy social democrats, maybe you can immigrate or is it emigrate....dunno....don't care...


amicus...

 

[CharleyH]

Just heard that on Fox Biz news and it somewhat startled me...as the numbers back in the 1970's were much smaller, 15% in the market...(Pure, get your own stats, just heard this)

For all the social democracies in Europe and all the critics of America and a free market economy, swallow those facts!

It is not the upper class three to five percent wealthy, that benefit from the market place or own their own homes, it is almost the entire middle class of America.

In other words, the system not only works well, it is superb and all the nation benefits from that nasty ole capitalist system.

How about them apples! Eat your heart out all you wimpy social democrats, maybe you can immigrate or is it emigrate....dunno....don't care...


amicus...

Every stat has an alternate interpretation.

Can I ask you? Have you even taken a trip into the real heart of America? I am not talking downtown condos or suburbia, but the real HEART of America?

With such a low standard of living? Such a piss ass minimum wage? Your system sucks for more that %. There are more people poor and starving in your country than, well - any supposed 1st world county. How terrific is that? Be proud of it, you have a nice looking house.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Can I ask you? Have you even taken a trip into the real heart of America? I am not talking downtown condos or suburbia, but the real HEART of America?

Just curious, what is the real heart of America?

 

[CharleyH]

Just curious, what is the real heart of America?

The country side slums and trailer parks outside of all of your inner cities and small apple pie towns, the farmers and the workers in factories or workers with double jobs or shifts to support the nuclear family. The heart of America is how poor it really is against the lost American Dream, and how wonderful all those who can't reach it and attain it or try. The heart of America is the poor.

Edit to add - too bad the dream remains in many minds, but the reality of it is long ago lost.

 

[amicus]

CharleyH....somewhat sad that you have such a distorted imagination about my upbringing...I was raised dirt poor on a farm, right in the middle of the 'heart' of America...minimum wage?I worked for 50 cents an hour in the agricultural fields and my first radio job paid a whole dollar an hour.

You may wish to rethink your belief about 'minimum wage'...you seem to present the aura that everyone knows that government should use force to make employers pay X amount of dollars for labor.

That is not consistent with individual freedom or human dignity. The market place decides what labor is needed and what compensation is proper, not some F'ing bureaucrats somewhere.

You sound like most socialists, who want a free ride on someone elses coattails, freedom doesn't work that way, only a slave society does...you cannot guarantee anyone a 'fair wage' the have to earn it by acquiring skills and competing with the next guy in line.

Grow up.


amicus...

 

[TheEarl]

Amicus, may I ask you a question?

Has it occurred to you that your 'triumphs' may come off as a bit biased when you trumpet every small success that's happened while the Republicans have been in power and dismiss every failure as 'Liberal spin-doctoring'? Nothing's perfect you know.

Actually, better question. If the Democrats win power in the next election, will you celebrate any successes that occur during their term as proof that their system is superior too?

The Earl

 

[kendo1]

The UK figure is currently at 72%

What's the big deal?

 

[Liar]

I assume that 70% of all Americans does not own a home each, but that 70% of the households are owned by one or more of it's residents. I mean, a family of 5 has one home, not 5. Right?


Then those are matching statistics from the (mostly) social democratic (is that a curseword or something in the amico vocabulary?) Sweden:

Owns their own home: 66% (typed that wrong, edited now)

Owns stocks and/or bonds: 67%
Or 82% of all adults if we also includes stock ownage via private pension funds.

Yeah, we're really fucking lagging.

 

[kendo1]

Source: Economic and Social Research council.
Table 1: Percentage of owner-occupied dwellings in different European countries, 2000
Country Percentage
Germany 43
Netherlands 53
Austria 54
Sweden 60
France 63
Portugal 65
Denmark 65
Finland 68
United Kingdom 71
Luxembourg 71
Belgium 73
Italy 75
Ireland 82
Greece 84
Spain 85
EU average 630

The figure is now at 71.4% for the UK, as of 2005.

 

[3113]

Now, don't go letting it get to you head, Ami. Let's remember two things: first that home ownership includes condos. So those stats go very well with the fact that there have been a ton of condos built and coverted.

In my neck of the woods, for example, every other apartment building including some pretty small and rundown ones, has been converted to condos. I live in a one-bedroom "apartment"--but I own it. So I'm a homeowner. There are a lot of "apartment" dwellers who are "home owners" thanks to conversions.

In other words, I think you're making a mountain over a molehill. That 70% do not, as the 50's dream would have it, live in beautiful suburban houses on nice clean streets. By the way...do trailers count also?

Second, one should remember that few Americans own their homes outright. Most of those Americans are paying huge loans. And many, many, many of them will lose those homes when they can't pay off those loans.

Really, it's the banks that own those homes. Americans just rent them...unless they can manage to pay off a 15-30 year loan, which, alas, many can't.

Don't trust statistics, Ami. And learn a little humility. Those who crow too much and boast about their accomplishments--especially if those are misleading and exaggerated accomplishments--don't get to play with others during recess.

 

[amicus]

I must admit that those numbers, which I do not doubt, concerning European nations, does somewhat lift my eyebrows...I did not suspect it and am a little surprised.

As I mentioned at the outset...I had just heard the numbers on the news and since they are such a quantum increase in the past thirty years, I felt it an important aspect in defending the system against the continual criticism it gets from almost all points of the compass.

I shall think on this some more...


amicus...

 

[Liar]

Second, one should remember that few Americans own their homes outright. Most of those Americans are paying huge loans. And many, many, many of them will lose those homes when they can't pay off those loans.

Really, it's the banks that own those homes. Americans just rent them...unless they can manage to pay off a 15-30 year loan, which, alas, many can't.

Pretty much the case over here too. And nobody expects to actually ever pay off a loan. Estate is merely a very stable volume investment for banks as well as homeowners.

I rent my digs now, but my latest home was "mine" (the banks). When I moved, the increased market value was bigger than the total amount of the inflation and the interrest I'd payed for the loan for four years. Walked away with a decent sum.

 

[amicus]

Amicus, may I ask you a question?

Has it occurred to you that your 'triumphs' may come off as a bit biased when you trumpet every small success that's happened while the Republicans have been in power and dismiss every failure as 'Liberal spin-doctoring'? Nothing's perfect you know.

Actually, better question. If the Democrats win power in the next election, will you celebrate any successes that occur during their term as proof that their system is superior too?

The Earl

I read that, Earl and then went on to other posts but that kinda stuck in my mind.

I am not avoiding or begging the question, but I am not a Republican, I belong to no political party and do not by choice even vote.

Some of my not so radical ideas any more as they have been discussed in Congress, such as abolishing social security and letting the free market provide pension insurance....and being totally opposed to forcing property owners to support public schools as just two of them...I am seldom happy with the efforts of either party.

The Republicans do, in my opinion, attempt to 'conserve' some of the primary values in our founding documents and they do seem to be more apt to actively and pre emptively defend that nation and the rights of people everywhere somewhat more than democrats.

My interest in politics in more a philosophical one than a practical or pragmatic one, while we may never achieve perfect, I think one must strive to understand just how essential human freedom is and speak for it when the opportunity arises.

thanks for your comment...


amicus...

 

[kendo1]

Only a couple of years to go until we pay off the mortgage.

I noticed when I was reading the article that at the turn of the previous century the figure for the UK was 1.5%.

The only parties in existence were the Conservatives and the Liberals. The Labour Party was formed in 1894, the first Labour (socialist) Prime Minister came to power in 1923 for one year- Ramsay MacDonald.

 

[CharleyH]

CharleyH....somewhat sad that you have such a distorted imagination about my upbringing...I was raised dirt poor on a farm, right in the middle of the 'heart' of America...minimum wage?I worked for 50 cents an hour in the agricultural fields and my first radio job paid a whole dollar an hour.

You may wish to rethink your belief about 'minimum wage'...you seem to present the aura that everyone knows that government should use force to make employers pay X amount of dollars for labor.

That is not consistent with individual freedom or human dignity. The market place decides what labor is needed and what compensation is proper, not some F'ing bureaucrats somewhere.

You sound like most socialists, who want a free ride on someone elses coattails, freedom doesn't work that way, only a slave society does...you cannot guarantee anyone a 'fair wage' the have to earn it by acquiring skills and competing with the next guy in line.

Grow up.


amicus...

LOL - I know you aspire to the American Dream (facade really), and want to get back to the Roman way. You are silly babe. Look at your answers? You make my points for me - lol.

Grow up? ROFLOL - LOL - LOL -lol -

CH

 

[sophia jane]

Just heard that on Fox Biz news and it somewhat startled me...as the numbers back in the 1970's were much smaller, 15% in the market...(Pure, get your own stats, just heard this)

For all the social democracies in Europe and all the critics of America and a free market economy, swallow those facts!

It is not the upper class three to five percent wealthy, that benefit from the market place or own their own homes, it is almost the entire middle class of America.

In other words, the system not only works well, it is superb and all the nation benefits from that nasty ole capitalist system.

How about them apples! Eat your heart out all you wimpy social democrats, maybe you can immigrate or is it emigrate....dunno....don't care...


amicus...

Very curious about these figures because they seem high to me. Do you have a link for this information?

 

[ChilledVodkaIV]

... and 70% of children the world over are made of water.

 

[CharleyH]

... and 70% of children the world over are made of water.

I thought it greater!

 

[Trinique_Fire]

No one I know any longer owns a home. That is, no one I know in person. I went from upper/middle class to rock bottom lower in less than a year. I'm sure I've adopted the mentality of a lot of people around here: I don't consort with the stuck up rich home owning fucks in my area. I live in a not so great part of the neighborhood, but I'm quite happy.

In a way, Charley's right. This pretty little 70% doesn't make the real dirt and grit of America. I know that now.

ETA: I don't hate homeowners on HERE lol...just the ones where I live. Very stuck up and all that.

 

[SeaCat]

Strange how this argument keeps cropping up.

Even stranger how I find myself on the end of being a home owner. (Something I never thought would happen.)

Yep, I own my own home. A Mobile Home. (Yes I do pay Lot Rental.) The only reason I could afford it was because it was damaged during the hurricanes and abandoned by it's previous owners. I picked it up for $1000.00, less than a normal months rental here in South Florida.

Yes there is work I have to and am doing on it. I have fixed the damage to the roof and have started on some of the damage inside. (I have to wait for the winter to do the walls and windows.)

I am one of the lucky ones who know how to do this kind of work, and I am even more lucky in that I am willing to do this kind of work.

Now as for the pay scales dear Ami. Think about this. I am a C.N.A., I take care of people when they are in the hospital. I am one of those who take care of your family members or even you when you visit the hospitals. I deal with things you wouldn't even care to think about, including being attacked and/or exposed to illnesses that can kill me. I have to maintain my education to keep my liscence. Now for the fun part, I am paid less than many of the Housekeepers and all of the Kitchen Staff. That's right, I could get paid more for mopping floors or passing out trays. (I won't even say how my pay compares to those in the front office, like the Telephone Operator.)


Cat

 

[Guest]

 

[Boxlicker101]

Just heard that on Fox Biz news and it somewhat startled me...as the numbers back in the 1970's were much smaller, 15% in the market...(Pure, get your own stats, just heard this)

For all the social democracies in Europe and all the critics of America and a free market economy, swallow those facts!

It is not the upper class three to five percent wealthy, that benefit from the market place or own their own homes, it is almost the entire middle class of America.

In other words, the system not only works well, it is superb and all the nation benefits from that nasty ole capitalist system.

How about them apples! Eat your heart out all you wimpy social democrats, maybe you can immigrate or is it emigrate....dunno....don't care...


amicus...

I can't help but think those figures are somewhat inflated. That home ownership figure includes owners of dinky condos and trailers. Furthermore, I would bet that the "owners" also include the offspring of home owners. That is, if children, even adult offspring, live in a home that is owned by their parents, those children are counted as being among the home owners, even though they don't actually own anything.

I also doubt if that many people actually own securities. They probably include those persons who have 401 accounts or other retirement accounts. The managers of retirement accounts take money that is paid in by employers and employees and invest it it securities. The individual account holders have little or nothing to say about what happens to the money that is invested but they are being counted as the owners of securities.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharleyH

Can I ask you? Have you even taken a trip into the real heart of America? I am not talking downtown condos or suburbia, but the real HEART of America?

Just curious, what is the real heart of America?

I had to wonder about that too. Later, you gave some answer to the effect that it was impoverished inner cities. I can't believe that. Why should a ghetto be "the heart" of America any more than a wealthy suburb is? Why is San Francisco "the heart of America" any more than Fresno is? There is no "heart", meaning central core, of America. It is too big and diverse for any one place or kind of place to be "the heart". When it comes to compassion and generosity, America has a very big heart, but that is not the topic here.

Edited to add: Both my brothers own their own homes clear, and my parents did too. I probably never will, but that is my own fault.

 

[Pure]

Some stats for our European Friends.

Gathering 'evidence' from Fox News, while sitting on one's butt is all very fine, and certainly a bit better than just listening to Rush Limbaugh. But Amicus' monumental laziness is once more in evidence.

Here are some stats on the state of the US, esp. in housing. Let it be said, the 'home ownership" includes mobile homes, now known as 'manufactured homes' by the makers. I have supplied data for the US, for Ariz and for South Carolina, for comparison (see the latter three section of the data below). Note deaths in hurricanes etc. disproportionately affect those in mobile homes, and the poor areas of the South have a greater percent of mobile homes, in excess of 20%.


http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/hvs/qtr206/q206prss.pdf

homeownership rates by race and ethnicity

US 2006
68.7 Second quarter
68.5 First quarter

White
75.9 Second
75.5 First

Black
47.2
47.3

All other races
59.3
59.6

Hispanic, any race
50.0
49.4
…..
============
http://www.pbs.org/peoplelikeus/resources/stats.html



U.S. median household income: $ 40,816
(U.S. Census Bureau, 1999)

Average household net worth of the top 1% of wage earners: $10,204,000

Average net worth of the bottom 40% of wage earners: $1900
(Edward N. Wolff, "Recent Trends in Wealth Ownership, 1983-1998," April 2000)

Definition of middle class in terms of income: $ 32,653 to $ 48,979
(Economy.Com’s The Dismal Scientist, 1999)

Percentage of U.S. children who live in poverty: 20
(U.S. Census Bureau, 2000)

Percentage of U.S. adults who live in poverty: 12
(U.S. Census Bureau, 2000)

Percentage of single mothers who live in poverty: 37.4%
(U.S. Census Bureau, 1999)

Rank of the U.S. among the seventeen leading industrial nations with the largest percentage of their populations in poverty: 1
(United Nations Human Development Report 1998, N.Y.C.)

Portion of U.S. stock owned by the wealthiest 10 % of Americans: 9/10
(Economic Policy Institute, Washington D.C., 1999)

Median hourly wage of a former welfare recipient: $6.61
(Urban Institute, 2000)

Percentage of former welfare recipients who have no access to a car: 90%
(Surface Transportation Policy Project, 2001)

Bill Gates hourly wage: $650,000/hr
(Bill Gates Net Worth Page, average since 1986)


In October 1996, 48.6 % of 16-24 year old high school completers in lower income families were enrolled in college, compared with 62.7 % from middle income families and 78 % from higher income families.
(U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, Current Population Survey)

Median household income for those less than a 9th grade education: $17,261
Median household income for those with a 9th - 12th grade education (no diploma): $ 21,737
Median household income for high school graduates: $ 35,744
Median household income for college graduates, B.A.: $ 64,406
Median household income for college graduates, M.A.: $ 74,476
Median household income for professional degree holders: $ 100,000
(U.S. Census Bureau, 1999)


Median net worth of a White American: $81,700
Median net worth of an African-American: $10,000
(Edward N. Wolff, "Recent Trends in Wealth Ownership, 1983-1998," April 2000)

Number of White people living in poverty: 21,922,000
Number of Black people living in poverty: 8,360,000
(U.S. Census Bureau, 1999)

Percentage of men earning poverty level hourly wage: 19.5%
Percentage of women earning poverty level hourly wage: 31.1%
(Economic Policy Institute, 2000)

Males:
White collar: 47% (of workforce), avg hourly wage = $22.20
Service: 10.4%, avg hourly wage = $10.92
Blue collar: 40.1%, avg hourly wage = $13.71

Females:
White collar: 73.4%, avg hourly wage = $14.90
Service: 15.2%, avg hourly wage = $8.17
Blue collar: 9.6%, avg hourly wage = $9.94
(The State of Working America 2000-2001, Economic Policy Institute, statistics are for 2000)

Median Income by type of household:
Family households (all): $49,940
Married couple families: $56,827
Female householder, no husband present: $26,164
Male householder, no wife present: $41,838
(U.S. Census Bureau, 1999)



Percentage of 5000 American adults polled who cited "lack of effort as a reason people are poor: 43 %
Percentage who cited "strong effort" as a reason some people are rich: 53%
(Gallup Poll Social Audit, 1998)


Number of American households that spend more than 50% of income on housing: 14 million
(Habitat for Humanity, 1999)

Number of families or primary individuals who live in mobile homes or trailers: 6.8 million
(U.S. Census Bureau, American Housing Survey, 1999)

Percentage change in the number of rural Americans living in mobile homes between 1980 and 1990: + 52
(Housing Assistance Council, Washington D.C.)

Number of U.S. households earning less than $10,000/year: 7.6 million
Number of affordable housing units available: 4.4 million
(Low Income Housing Information Service, 1995)

Number of gated communities in America: approx. 20,000 (housing approximately 8.4 million people)

(Fortress America: Gated Communities in America, Edward J. Blakely and Mary Gail Snyder, Brookings Institution Press, 1997)Number of gated communities in 1950: 2,500
(Fortress America, 1997)

Interesting fact: In 1995, homeowners earning more than $100,000 a year received a total of $28.9 billion dollars in federal income tax deductions on mortgage interest payments. The entire 1996 budget of the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development was only $19 billion.
("The New Politics of Housing," Peter Dreier, Journal of the American Planning Association, Vol. 63, No. 1, Winter 1997)
=====
MOBILE ['manufactured'] HOME DATA

United States: Percentage of U.S.

Percentage of US
Residents Living In Specified Type of Home

http://phoenix.about.com/cs/living/a/AZhomes01.htm

66%
1-unit housing, either unattached or attached
----
9%
2 to 4-unit housing
-----
10%
5 to 19-unit housing
-----
8%
20 or more unit housing
----
7%
Mobile Homes
---
Less than 1%
Boat, RV, van

====
From the 'manufactured housing' industry:

http://www.propanecouncil.org/trade/manufHousing/the_manufactured_housing_industry.htm

The manufactured housing industry has grown significantly over the past decade. Statistics show manufactured homes growing in

popularity.
· About 20 million people (about 8 percent of the U.S. population) now live full-time in over 10 million manufactured homes.

· In 2001, one out of 7.5 new single-family housing starts were manufactured homes.

· Eight-eight percent of manufactured homeowners report satisfaction with the manufactured housing lifestyle.

· In 2001, the industry shipped about 190,000 homes from 275 manufacturing facilities.

· Multi-section shipments in 2001 outpaced single-section shipments, commanding 74.7 percent of total shipments. In 2000, multi-section shipments accounted for 70.1 percent of the total.

· Manufactured housing retail sales were estimated at $9.5 billion in 2001.

· According to the Census Bureau, 2001 figures show that 67 percent of new manufactured homes were located on private property, and 33 percent of new manufactured homes were located in communities.

· The average sales price of a manufactured home was about $50,000 in 2001.

· Single-section homes average about $30,000, while multi-section homes average about $55,000.

· The most popular way to buy a home is new from a dealer-41 percent of people surveyed bought their home that way.
· 49 percent of surveyed homeowners have their homes on their own private property. 33 percent are in a park and do not own their lot.

Sources: Manufactured Housing Institute, 2004
"The Market Facts" by The Foremost Insurance Group of Companies, 2002.
===

The Changing Face of Manufactured Homes

1-unit, detached
South Carolina
#
1,078,678
--
%
61.5
====
US
#
69,865,957
--
%
60.3

Mobile home
South Carolina
#
355,499

%
20.3
=====
US #
8,779,228
--
%
7.6
------
Units in structure for all housing units, 2000
http://www.sccommunityprofiles.org/scpages/sc_structures.asp

====

 

[Boxlicker101]

The use of the word "poverty" tends to bug me because it is a relative thing. X% of the people with the lowest net worth are considered to be poor, or in poverty. Never mind that those people would be considered quite well off in most parts of the world, and never mind that those same people, with their current net worth, would have been considered quite well off 60 years ago.