60% of women say it's acceptable for wives to hit their husbands

[cloudy]

You know, fuck you too Cloudy, you never read anything, or appear to usnderstand half of what you read, your fucking knee just jerks, so I have no idea what you're complaining about - this is not a statistical thing here, you are not all women, we are talking about individuals, not statistics or stereotypes - when it comes to the law, every case must be tried on the evidence - if you perpetuate bias, you perpetuate injustice.

She happened to be an Indian, and I know some other pretty violent Dineh women, it's a matriarchy; Ute and Pueblo women typically are not that aggressive, there is a cultural thing at work here, and that's all I'm talking about, not whether men are better than women or vice versa, which is what you seem to want to repeat, like this is a cliche that nobody's ever heard before - this all happened during that period when man hating was all the rage and on all the talk shows, and I have no doubt that has something to do with it, examples were being made.

My point is that you're gender politics has it's victims too - you can write it off as "too bad, that's what you get for being a man, hahahah" but I'm not a fucking statistic, and if I were a lesser man, there would be some clueless girl paying the price for it right about now.

So it goes.

You made my point very nicely. You just want a reason to flame, that's all, and I'm convenient. *shrug*

eta: What the fuck does being Indian have to do with anything?

 

[xssve]

And it is all about me, in this instance, bruises heal, a police record follows you the rest of your life, there are certain activities I can never choose to participate in now as a result, I can never run for political office for instance, this is the first thing the opposition would bring up - it's affected my life, and it continues to affect it, hard to get a date when half the town thinks you're abusive - there will always be the question. I doubt it will ever end, my life is fucking ruined, and in my mind, that makes you and your statistics more dangerous than she could ever be.

 

[xssve]

This is why I didn't want to talk about it, there is no winning scenario for me here, win/win or otherwise.

 

[xssve]

Thanks Sarah, Vermillion.

 

[Vermilion]

Hubby's father was subjected to an element of this himself. When he split from hubby's mother she claimed to all and sundry that he had beaten her. We still don't know why, presumably she wanted to be a victim and have everyone's attention and sympathy, but my F-i-L is the most gentle man I have ever met (gentle giant) and his second wife, who was horribly beaten by her ex, sings his praises. I can only imagine the desperation he felt when wife #1 accused him of what she did and all their friends started taking sides - he nearly lost visiting rights because of it.

Luckily no evidence came to light (because there damn well wasn't any imho)and some old neighbours testified that they'd seen her hitting him. He's never once mentioned that himself, but hubby guesses that she probably beat him. She's a big woman and could have inflicted some serious damage, but he will never say. Either too kind to try and cause difficulties for his kids by saying, or too ashamed to admit that he was beaten by his wife. Having listened to some of the things hubby has said about his childhood I have some idea of the trauma an abusive parent can inflict, no matter who they abuse, or which gender they are. I wish you all the best and thank you for sharing. It is humbling to be reminded of the things other people face in their lives.
x
V

 

[xssve]

You made my point very nicely. You just want a reason to flame, that's all, and I'm convenient. *shrug*

eta: What the fuck does being Indian have to do with anything?

It's all there, if you were reading and understanding, rather than looking for excuses to flame - which everybody knows you never do.

 

[cloudy]

It's all there, if you were reading and understanding, rather than looking for excuses to flame - which everybody knows you never do.

Whatever. Nothing I said was personal, in fact, as I recall, you were the one that started the flames. But...think of it however you wish. What you think of me makes absolutely no difference to me.

*shrug*

 

[xssve]

Whatever. Nothing I said was personal, in fact, as I recall, you were the one that started the flames. But...think of it however you wish. What you think of me makes absolutely no difference to me.

*shrug*

Good.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Hubby's father was subjected to an element of this himself. When he split from hubby's mother she claimed to all and sundry that he had beaten her. We still don't know why, presumably she wanted to be a victim and have everyone's attention and sympathy, but my F-i-L is the most gentle man I have ever met (gentle giant) and his second wife, who was horribly beaten by her ex, sings his praises. I can only imagine the desperation he felt when wife #1 accused him of what she did and all their friends started taking sides - he nearly lost visiting rights because of it.
[...]

In my experience, women who become abusive use projection as a way to justify their behavior to themselves. It's like they place you in a position where you become the focus of their self-hate, and they accuse you of the very things they do, and thus you deserve the abuse. As a person with Depression, it's very easy to join in on the psychological beating up of you, you know?

 

[christabelll]

After over 10 years apart from her, I've only in the last year begun to recognize my marriage as psychologically abusive. Even as therapists have characterized it that way to me, I always told myself that "It wasn't that bad."

The difficult thing to deal with, for me, has been the realization of my own participation in the abuse, in connection with a life-long clinical depression. I not only seem to be a victim of abuse, I seem to invite it, some of the behavior is so deeply ingrained.

At last, I'm beginning to recognize it all. I have glimpses through the fog in my mind.

vis a vis me with my ex -

its never easy and slogging through all the doublestandards and the courts (read authorities) inability to look at the issues squarely only make it worse.

I rarely reach out and bap my SO... usually only when he is trying to sneak pieces of dinner before they're ready and thats just a smacking of fingers across the back of his hand. I did, last fall, punch him in the arm. It really hurt! ME! He was being an ass, truly an absolute ass, and kept on even though I asked him repeatedly to stop I got it okay? and lord help me I punched him in the shoulder saying "shut the fuck up would you?" He looked at me as if I had gone freakazoid on him. As I was nursing my bruised hand I apologized profusely for making him shut up that way - but then - we had to have it out about why I did in the first place. I hadn't done it before or after. The point is - playful tagging and finger smacks are a different category than hitting with intent to harm.

I may be a big strong woman- and I do hit like a girl LOL.... most men don't know their own strength so its easy to go from fun to ow.

98% of the time I refuse to get physical.... the other 2 % is for the bedroom

 

[Guest]

I was slapped by my boyfriend once - someone I'd been dating for a few months.

We were at his home, in front of his family, and I was joking about something he'd done, which apparently he did not want anyone else to know. (Something about buying a new bow?)

Anyway, he tried to shush me and wound up slapping me hard across the face.

I was shocked and humiliated, and looking back now, I remember that his family was not at all surprised. Apparently it was commonplace to slap the little woman around a bit.

I remained calm, we stayed a bit longer, then he took me home. I called him that night to break up and to tell him to stay the hell away from me. I didn't want to talk to him in person.

I didn't tell my father or my brother.

I'm still angry about it, about my lack of response. I should have thrown a major fit in front of everyone, demanded an apology, become outraged that he felt the need to physically harm me just because he didn't like something I said.

There is no reason to hit someone you are supposed to love. Once begun, where does it end? It's okay to slap, but a punch is out? Or a punch is okay, but a shove across the room is bad? Or it's fine if it doesn't leave marks?

Male or female, if physical violence, unwanted and unsexual physical violence is part of the relationship something is seriously fucked up.

My opinion.

 

[Liar]

I don't believe any person should hit another person with intent to cause harm.

That said, however....while I understand, sort of, trying to level the playing field by being "outraged" over women hitting men, you just can't level it. The field is absolutely tilted over to the side of men being violent with women.

Just looking at homicide statistics, 31 percent of female victims were killed by an intimate partner. Only 4 percent of male victims were killed by an intimate partner.

It's just not possible to make it level, because it isn't level.

Aren't we talking about two different playing fields here?

One 'playing field' is actual abuse. More women are being abused by men than men by women.

The other 'playing field' is culture, and public perception of those two different scenarios. And of course, most sensible people say "nodoby should abuse anybody". But there are prevailing attitudes in our society and culture that makes it not so. Just like there are racist structures in our society and culture, although most people agree that all races are equal.

Those attitudes goes both ways, by the way. Why are there still much fewer women in corporate leadership roles and high public office? Not because there aren't enough competent women, or even because more than a few actually think, consciously, that women are inferior. But because there's a prevailing cultural imbalance, a pattern that isn't questioned enough.

Another such imbalance has to do with violence, and prevailing attitudes towards it, that gives men and women different thresholds, before they are considered to be Victims.

The playing field of the actual hitting is indeed the more dire and serious one. But they're both there.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Aren't we talking about two different playing fields here?

One 'playing field' is actual abuse. More women are being abused by men than men by women.

The other 'playing field' is culture, and public perception of those two different scenarios. And of course, most sensible people say "nodoby should abuse anybody". But there are prevailing attitudes in our society and culture that makes it not so. Just like there are racist structures in our society and culture, although most people agree that all races are equal.

Those attitudes goes both ways, by the way. Why are there still much fewer women in corporate leadership roles and high public office? Not because there aren't enough competent women, or even because more than a few actually think, consciously, that women are inferior. But because there's a prevailing cultural imbalance, a pattern that isn't questioned enough.

Another such imbalance has to do with violence, and prevailing attitudes towards it, that gives men and women different thresholds, before they are considered to be Victims.

The playing field of the actual hitting is indeed the more dire and serious one. But they're both there.

I think we also have to define "abuse" here. I believe there are more women who verbally abuse the men in their lives than vice-versa, by nagging, scolding, reviling, cursing, etc. I have no statistics, just a strong belief, based on personal observation.

As for physical abuse, if I were to strike my wife in anger, which I have never done, and never will do, that would be abuse. If she were to strike me in anger, it probably wouldn't be regarded as abuse, unless she used a club or frying pan or some other object. I don't expect that to ever happen either. What I am saying is that the threshold of abuse is lower when it's a man committing it than when it's a woman.

Generally speaking, I think it's much more common for a woman to strike a man in anger than vice-versa. You see it regularly on soap operas and sit-coms and other TV shows, or even in person, although I don't believe it's that common in real life.

 

[cloudy]

The playing field of the actual hitting is indeed the more dire and serious one. But they're both there.

So, let's get outraged about all violence between intimate partners, not just one or the other.

Generally speaking, I think it's much more common for a woman to strike a man in anger than vice-versa. You see it regularly on soap operas and sit-coms and other TV shows, or even in person, although I don't believe it's that common in real life.

You do realize, don't you, that you just contradicted yourself? And all in the same paragraph.

 

[Boxlicker101]

So, let's get outraged about all violence between intimate partners, not just one or the other.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Generally speaking, I think it's much more common for a woman to strike a man in anger than vice-versa. You see it regularly on soap operas and sit-coms and other TV shows, or even in person, although I don't believe it's that common in real life.


You do realize, don't you, that you just contradicted yourself? And all in the same paragraph.

What I said was that I believed it was more common for a woman to strike a man than vice versa. Then I went on to mention that it happens regularly on TV, but is less common in real life than it is on the TV screen.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

You want a larger sample that hits closer to home? Let's see - how many women get offended by scenes of women slapping guys on comedy shows just for saying shit they didn't like? How many women get offended by scenes of guys slapping women just for saying shit they didn't like? I mention comedy shows because this effectively says domestic violence is funny as long as men are the victims.

Want examples? I can go back in time and point out a few scenes from Married with Children, or even when a guy got shoved onto his ass by a woman on Seinfeld. Ally McBeal, etc., the beat just goes on. Now how many comedies do you ever even see with a guy slapping a woman? Hmmm?

Just looking to see who's gonna come up and say I'm factually wrong about this...

 

[Liar]

So, let's get outraged about all violence between intimate partners, not just one or the other.

I'm game for that. Let's throw in violence between casual aquaintances and between complete strangers too, and then we're starting to get somewhere.

 

[Guest]

I'm game for that. Let's throw in violence between casual aquaintances and between complete strangers too, and then we're starting to get somewhere.

And squirrels.

Don't forget the squirrels.

 

[Boxlicker101]

And squirrels.

Don't forget the squirrels.

Right. Why should anybody be violent toward a squirrel? Or a rabbit or a chipmunk? Against rats it's okay.

 

[Safe_Bet]

And squirrels.

Don't forget the squirrels.

Nuhuh! They have those little beady eyes. I'm bitch slapping the next squirrel I see! I just might kick some bunny ass too, if they want some a me!

 

[Guest]

Nuhuh! They have those little beady eyes. I'm bitch slapping the next squirrel I see! I just might kick some bunny ass too, if they want some a me!

We feed 'em.

We're so silly.

 

[Liar]

And squirrels.

Violence between squirrels?

 

[Guest]

Violence between squirrels?

They're so naughty.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Nuhuh! They have those little beady eyes. I'm bitch slapping the next squirrel I see! I just might kick some bunny ass too, if they want some a me!

At least don't be mean to the chipmunks.