3 weeks ago, Indian Farmers scored a huge win against Corporations

[GothTalk]

No supermarket egg tastes as good as the ones my chickens lay.

They're even better if I let them free-range,

but, they attract predators...

In the summer, nearly everything I eat is grown or raised within 25 miles of my house. It's not practical for fruit and veggies in the winter though. For protein in the winter, I switch from local cows to local deer, squirrel and rabbits.

I eat the eggs because they keep piling up.

I do a lot of leftover and cheese omelettes.

All of this ^^

 

[oggbashan]

We have several local farm shops and a fortnightly farmers' market.

The prices are usually slightly lower than the supermarkets but the farmers make much more money than they are paid by the supermarkets.

One of our friends produces apple juice and cider. The quality is good. The prices are slightly higher than processed apple juice but the taste is far better. It doesn't last more than a week. The cider? Strong, best drunk soon and cheaper if you bring your own container or drink it at the stall. I usually have to push through the crowd of drinkers.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Monsanto is a particularly evil corporation.

 

[astuffedshirt_perv]

One reason for Zambia refusing the GM corn was the possibility of gene transfer from the GM corn to human cells or gut flora.

OMG IKR? Better to let our people starve to death, or better yet suffer malnutrition as a child, no problem there! So weird how some clowns are like 'believe the science' and then you bring up GMOs.

 

[GothTalk]

Bayer, formerly known as Monsanto, are corrupt and morally reprehensible.

It doesn’t matter if the RR canola gets into a farmer’s field by wind or insects, seed blown from passing trucks, or dropping from farm equipment, or swaths blown from neighbors’ fields. Any plant containing traces of a patented technology belongs to the owner of that patent. Therefore, all of that farmer’s crops, seeds, and profits from them belong to the patent holder.

In south-central Africa, Zambia is experiencing extreme food shortages. Three million people could starve because of a food shortage caused by drought. As food aid, the United States shipped more than 62,000 tons of corn to Zambia, which they refused after finding detectable levels of GM pollution.

One reason for Zambia refusing the GM corn was the possibility of gene transfer from the GM corn to human cells or gut flora. Depending upon what type of genetic modification the corn received, it’s likely to be encoded for antibiotic resistance. At the time, the US. would not tell Zambian officials what type it was, nor would they help transport non-GM grains that were readily accessible if given the proper support.

Monsanto has a long track record or lies, deception, and extortion. It has been a part of many notable environmental disasters, including Agent Orange and PCBs, research on uranium for the Manhattan Project that led to the construction of nuclear bombs, styrene monomer, an endless line of pesticides and herbicides, rBGH (recombinant bovine growth hormone), GM crops (corn, potatoes, tomatoes, soy beans, cotton), and its most significant product to date-Lies, Factual Distortions, and Omissions.[9]

https://anthropogenic.world/percy-schmeiser-vs-monsanto/

Not taking Monsantos side, but Zambia rejecting GMO's?? Really??

LOL

 

[pecksniff]

Yes, this. Smaller farmers are inefficient. That translates into the crops from small farms being more expensive than crops from big farms that use better seeds and technology to maximize yields. The question is, should small farms be supported and protected?

The question is, is an agrarian "way of life" worth preserving at the cost of economic efficiency?

 

[pecksniff]

If we suddenly didn't have all the ag subsidies and big ag companies to produce lots of super cheap foods it would send massive waves throughout the entire food related economy totally fucking TRAUMATIZE most suburban/urban dwellers who've hardly ever given a though to where their food comes from . . .

Food grows in supermarket bins, like nature intended.

I don't hold with all this newfangled nonsense about growing plants outdoors!

 

[pecksniff]

One reason for Zambia refusing the GM corn was the possibility of gene transfer from the GM corn to human cells or gut flora.

Can that actually happen?

 

[GothTalk]

Food grows in supermarket bins, like nature intended.

I don't hold with all this newfangled nonsense about growing plants outdoors!

Many city dwellers are literally this fucking stupid.

 

[GothTalk]

And with good reason. From the same article:

Worried about the possibility of rapidly spreading disease caused by people gaining antibiotic resistance from the corn, Dr. Lewanika said, “The people of Zambia are in poor health. Many are immune-compromised. If the health concerns are true, they are more likely to affect those in Zambia.”[19]

The US. media has portrayed these people as foolish and ignorant. They also accused international NGOs of colluding to starve these people to death with their scare tactics. But it’s easy to see why the US. donated the corn without mentioning it was GM. It has a great surplus of GM corn that’s swelling. If they could ditch it in Zambia, it is likely that some would find its way to being planted. It would then overtake the indigenous varieties.[20]

And at that point, Zambia would never be able to sell its corn crops because wholesale suppliers are refusing to buy it, or offering very reduced rates.

The GM industry hopes and prays for the quick and complete GM contamination of the world so they can start racing about charging a technology use fee. Don Westfall, senior VP at Promar International, told the Toronto Star that GM crops may soon be so prevalent that there may no turning back, despite the cost. “The hope of the industry is that over time the market is so flooded that there’s nothing you can do about it,” he said. “You just sort of surrender.”[21]

Sure they had good reason but it's fucking Zambia.

It's a backwater shit hole nobody gives a fuck about.

 

[GothTalk]

Can that actually happen?

I would have to see some pretty extensive studies to buy into that.

BUT what can happen is some of the seed gets planted and it contaminates the wild/local populations with patented genetics.

Bio-tech companies been doing that for years to take over shit.

 

[pecksniff]

I would have to see some pretty extensive studies to buy into that.

BUT what can happen is some of the seed gets planted and it contaminates the wild/local populations with patented genetics.

Bio-tech companies been doing that for years to take over shit.

Fortunately there is, so far as I know, no such thing as GMO marijuana.

But there will be, if the holy hempweed is ever generally legalized in this country. New rules might be required for the Cannabis Cup competition.

 

[GothTalk]

Fortunately there is, so far as I know, no such thing as GMO marijuana.

Oh there is. It's just not patented yet so you can't go beat people to death in court over it.

But there will be, if the holy hempweed is ever generally legalized in this country.

Never happening. At most it will become "legal" for the elites/rich/well connected. It will never be legal for just anyone who complies with safety/environmental rules like carrots or apples or ornamental trees/bulbs/flowers.

New rules might be required for the Cannabis Cup competition.

Oh noes an industry insider circle jerk "competition" might have to adjust themselves!!!

https://media3.giphy.com/media/RkDZxOBNWiZUa8Uy8n/giphy.gif

 

[LupusDei]

Can that actually happen?

Nope, that would be very surprising. You may sometimes contract genes from things like viruses, but directly from food, nope, shouldn't happen. (The very nature of digesting something involves unfolding their structure, and that's just the start...) Direct human consumption of GMOs should be of little to no concern, at least as long unexpected toxins are ruled out.

What can happen, and is a basis for real concern are:

1) a GM organism may escape and spread into wild as new invasive species displacing native varieties and/or otherwise wrecking havoc in the ecosystem (as simple as creating thick monoculture growth where previously great diversity used to be);

2) the GM organism may hybridize with native relatives with unknown outcomes, the resulting hybrids may spread and wreck havoc in the ecosystem;

3) the intended use of said GMO wreck havoc in the ecosystem around, including indirectly affecting human consumption. This not so much GMO than more general industrial agriculture problem, but a major direction of GMOs is to service and enable increasingly extreme industrial agriculture methods.

Like the already mentioned Monsanto Roundup technology, where a food crop is made to withstand a poison that kills all other plants and thus can be indiscriminately used in ever increasing amounts for weeding (and amounts have to be increased, because, yes, the weeds select and evolve naturally in direction of resistance, with unknown consequences). As one can imagine, trace amounts of that shit may at least in theory make it's way to one's dish, sometimes in unexpected ways.

Bonus points if the target chemicals are insecticides that are sprayed at daytime on or near blooming weeds killing or poisoning bees and other pollinators as a collateral damage.

There is a direction of GMOs that are explicitly targeted at either decreasing chemical use, or increasing drought resistance, etc. Not all GMOs are born equal or uniformly bad.

 

[pecksniff]

The question is, is an agrarian "way of life" worth preserving at the cost of economic efficiency?

A question that should get more attention than it does. Jefferson's vision of a nation of farmers was based on the assumption that only small farmers are truly independent citizens -- they have no employer to depend on, and they can even live, to some limited extent, independently of the market. My mother's family was poor, but in the worst of the Depression they never went hungry, because they could grow their own food.

 

[oggbashan]

A question that should get more attention than it does. Jefferson's vision of a nation of farmers was based on the assumption that only small farmers are truly independent citizens -- they have no employer to depend on, and they can even live, to some limited extent, independently of the market. My mother's family was poor, but in the worst of the Depression they never went hungry, because they could grow their own food.

During the worst rationing in WW2 (and the years after which were worst) UK farmers could keep some of their own eggs and milk (and of course sold some on the black market!).

 

[pecksniff]

During the worst rationing in WW2 (and the years after which were worst) UK farmers could keep some of their own eggs and milk (and of course sold some on the black market!).

OTOH, agribiz is more efficient, isn't it? 10,000 acres farmed by a corporation using industrial methods and hired hands can grow crops at less cost than the same acreage farmed by a bunch of family farmers working for themselves.

 

[pecksniff]

Also class action lawsuits they lost on the harmful effects of Round Up.

That's an herbicide, not a GMO.

 

[oggbashan]

OTOH, agribiz is more efficient, isn't it? 10,000 acres farmed by a corporation using industrial methods and hired hands can grow crops at less cost than the same acreage farmed by a bunch of family farmers working for themselves.

Except in the wartime USSR. Their collective farms were so inefficient they had to import grain from the USA and Canada - and the Germans sunk a lot of it.

The peasant farmers' plots were (and are in today's Russia) more productive per hectare of land than the large farms even now.

In my bookshop, I once had a 1920s book on how to use a tractor on a collective farm. It was in Russian and published by the government. I lent it to my only Russian fluent customer. She brought it back within a week and said:

"The author had obvosuly NEVER seen a tractor. It is all about communist slogans and jargon but as a manual? Absolutely useless!"

Of course, if a collective farm had a tractor in the 1920s it would have been a Ford, with a capitalist manual translated into Russian - much more useful.

 

[pecksniff]

Except in the wartime USSR. Their collective farms were so inefficient they had to import grain from the USA and Canada - and the Germans sunk a lot of it.

But, they were making it all up on the fly, and guided by ideology more than engineering or scientific agronomy. I'm sure modern agribiz methods are more efficient.

Not necessarily more sustainable. A family farmer wants to leave his farm to his descendants in workable order. A corporation has no reason not to work the land to exhaustion and then go buy some more.

 

[LupusDei]

That's an herbicide, not a GMO.

It's used in concert with GMO, the crop is made to withstand it specifically, so you can spray over whenever.

 

[oggbashan]

But, they were making it all up on the fly, and guided by ideology more than engineering. I'm sure modern agribiz methods are more efficient.

They are still. The post of agricultural minister in the Kremlin is the kiss of death because Russian agriculture will always fail to meet its targets.

 

[pecksniff]

They are still. The post of agricultural minister in the Kremlin is the kiss of death because Russian agriculture will always fail to meet its targets.

Is it still collectivized? Or did the fall of Communism involve breaking up and distributing the collective farms?

 

[oggbashan]

Is it still collectivized? Or did the fall of Communism involve breaking up and distributing the collective farms?

No. They are still state-run but sometimes the profits (if any) are diverted to oligarchs and Putin's friends. Other industries such as mining and oil (using western technology) are much more efficient and profitable.

 

[pecksniff]

It is interesting to speculate how things might have gone in Russia, if, instead of the Bolsheviks, the peasant-based Socialist Revolutionaries had come to power.