26·Oct·2005 · "Near Nigh Now" · Rybka

[The Poets]

Near Nigh Now

Near nigh
to now
and not by my view
one equal share
of the truth shall they seek
or will relive
that of what is quiet

Time past
long past
life noise fades
behind all memories
sown and reaped by men
they forget
what life repeats
In times
Of now yet​

What's your take and do you see any influences?
All comments welcome.

 

[darkmaas]

Olives and Beer.

-------


I have taken Eve's admonition to heart and ignored all previous critiques of this poem.

Let me start by commending "The POETS" for juxtaposing this poem with the previous offering. One is all sweat and pubic hair; the other so crystalline, so germ free as to make one afraid to touch it. Those who know me well will know that my predilection is for the former so perhaps I should quit while I'm ahead.

There is no point in discussing stylistic points since this poem eschews the conventional trappings of poetic style (meter rhyme metaphor ...). It is like a Modern (which is to say 1950's) skyscraper that refuses the normal vocabulary of previous architectural "styles". What we are left with is a word puzzle that we struggle to wrestle meaning from.

It begs the question, "Is this poetry?" Personally, I will drop my vote on the "yes" side in the same sense that Mondrian's work is art. It is trying to express something and it does so by attempting to squeeze meaning into/out of a very thin vocabulary. For no other reason than this, it is extremely attractive.

So we are left with meaning. What exactly does it mean? Well, it doesn't appear to be about dentistry, so how badly can it hurt? I suspect that a dozen readers will drag a dozen meanings out of the text and this is a weakness that it shares with abstract painting. However that same dozen readers may derive a sense of satisfaction from seeing a personal vision in the words and that, paradoxically, is it's strength.

I personally interpreted it as a warning about our messing with life's larger forces but others will disagree.

On a personal note, Rybka, this is a long way from olives floating in a pitcher of warm beer. However, I enjoyed the exercise almost as much.

Thanks.

 

[WickedEve]

-------


I have taken Eve's admonition to heart and ignored all previous critiques of this poem.

Let me start by commending "The POETS" for juxtaposing this poem with the previous offering. One is all sweat and pubic hair; the other so crystalline, so germ free as to make one afraid to touch it.

I read yours anyway! I've been waiting for someone to comment on this poem. It is an attractive poem, but it's not clinging to me like sweat or--taffy.

 

[bogusbrig]

Near Nigh Now

Near nigh
to now
and not by my view
one equal share
of the truth shall they seek
or will relive
that of what is quiet

Time past
long past
life noise fades
behind all memories
sown and reaped by men
they forget
what life repeats
In times
Of now yet​

What's your take and do you see any influences?
All comments welcome.

I think it impossible to say what such poems as this are about, there is not enough info so I tend to judge them on whether they rattle in my head and leave a mark.

'Near nigh' doesn't make a lot of sense since nigh means near in time, almost, close, etc. Though it seems to read as if it makes sense in an equation type of way. Got to think about it a little.

'sown and reaped by men' On this line I would get rid of 'by men'. For some reason it bothers me as it seems surplus.

 

[The_Fool]

First Strophe verse Second Strophe. Future versus past?

Near nigh…to now to me is a restatement of “In the not too distant future.”

and not by my view The narrator is either blind to what is being sought or is not seeking it.

one equal share…of the truth shall they seek My first cynical impression is that mankind is always seeking “equality,” always seeking the “truth” as long as what they get is more “equal” than any others and the “truth” fits their perception. Add this to the previous line and I think that it is an observation of my cynical position.

or will relive….that of what is quiet Reading ahead to life noise fades, I see this as a statement on selective memory.

Life noise fades…behind all memories Time filters memories leaving only what was most memorable.

Sown and reaped by men…they forget…what life repeats I see this as a restatement of “Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.”

In times…of now yet And those in control are repeating those mistakes today.


I see this poem as an obelisk that changes colors depending on what light hits it. By that I mean that it is concrete and cryptic. No changing in form, but changing with the viewing. The interpretation I’ve developed is what I see today. Tomorrow may show me a different shade, a different shadow.


Just my foolish thoughts...

 

[twelveoone]

Near Nigh Now

Near nigh
to now
and not by my view
one equal share
of the truth shall they seek
or will relive
that of what is quiet

Time past
long past
life noise fades
behind all memories
sown and reaped by men
they forget
what life repeats
In times
Of now yet​

What's your take and do you see any influences?
All comments welcome.

Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future,
And time future contained in time past.
If all time is eternally present
All time is unredeemable.
What might have been is an abstraction
Remaining a perpetual possibility
Only in a world of speculation.
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.
BUIRNT NORTON --T.S. Eliot

Reminds me of...
also reminds me of Nietzsche, but I didn't see the dwarf

 

[bogusbrig]

Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future,
And time future contained in time past.
If all time is eternally present
All time is unredeemable.
What might have been is an abstraction
Remaining a perpetual possibility
Only in a world of speculation.
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.
BUIRNT NORTON --T.S. Eliot

Reminds me of...
also reminds me of Nietzsche, but I didn't see the dwarf

Your post made me realise when I read Rybka's poem, that I had a sense of a Caspar David Frederich painting. Wilful romanticism. You get the surface detail but like nature, the substrata keeps moving. That's why I found I couldn't pin the poem down to give a decent critique (and my lack of talent for critiquing).

I'm not particularly a fan of romanticism but that has nothing to do with the quality of the poem which pretty well does what it sets out to do.

 

[twelveoone]

Near Nigh Now

Near nigh
to now
and not by my view
one equal share
of the truth shall they seek
or will relive
that of what is quiet

Time past
long past
life noise fades
behind all memories
sown and reaped by men
they forget
what life repeats
In times
Of now yet​

What's your take and do you see any influences?
All comments welcome.

Rybka,
First I would change the title, insert "to" , sounds too much like a tongue twister.
Flat out, I enjoyed it, it challenges the reader and it seems to fly in the face of "show not tell" - it is about abstract thought, but does not tell you what to think.
For the above reasons this limits your readership to maybe a few philosophy hacks.
Two things it lacks, either a powerful phrase, sentence or an arresting image. Why I left the previous post: this seems to collapse to the word 'memories". I would rule out something powerful here, it would desturb the quiet. In "norton" Eliot ruminates, he gives us the images. As it is that may be one of Eliot's more difficult poems. Here you ruminate on thought alone.
Best
1201

 

[Guest]

Near Nigh Now

Near nigh
to now
and not by my view
one equal share
of the truth shall they seek
or will relive
that of what is quiet

Time past
long past
life noise fades
behind all memories
sown and reaped by men
they forget
what life repeats
In times
Of now yet​

First, I have not read the other comments in detail.

I am a fan of short poems with a punch. This one delivers the punch in slow motion. It has a regretful flavour, one of sorrow and resignation.

It is not easy to read both because of the chosen words and their placement.

The punctuation is odd but Rybka doesn't do things with no purpose therefore it made me really read it to see if I could fathom out that purpose. I haven't.

I find it interesting in its mystery but not beautiful. As for influences I'm not well read enough to know but I would like to - know, that is.

Lastly, I'd like to say how marvellously varied the poems offered for discussion have been, thanks to all.

 

[Guest]

Your post made me realise when I read Rybka's poem, that I had a sense of a Caspar David Frederich painting. Wilful romanticism. You get the surface detail but like nature, the substrata keeps moving. That's why I found I couldn't pin the poem down to give a decent critique (and my lack of talent for critiquing).

I'm not particularly a fan of romanticism but that has nothing to do with the quality of the poem which pretty well does what it sets out to do.

Blatant subliminalism?

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/4782/RockyGorge1823.jpg

 

[Rybka]

Near Nigh Now

Near nigh
to now
and not by my view
one equal share
of the truth shall they seek
or will relive
that of what is quiet

Time past
long past
life noise fades
behind all memories
sown and reaped by men
they forget
what life repeats
In times
Of now yet​

What's your take and do you see any influences?
All comments welcome.

My thanks to everyone who has or will comment.

Would it help at all for me to mention that I purposefully left out the "to" in the title, and a "not" in the final line, and also all punctuation (I don't mean to influence anyone's interpretation; just a hint to what I was thinking when I wrote it.) - As always, "What you see is what you see is what you get." Once a poem is loosed upon the world, anything a reader gets from it is as valid as what the writer meant. (Acknowledgment to R. Frost)

I will respond to all the comments when/after another poem is posted.
So far I am somewhat surprised/disappointed that no one has seen the major influence in this poem. (One that continues to be an influence in almost all of my writing.)

Further hint on what I meant, the two strophes are meant to be reflections, or at least variations of each other.

 

[bogusbrig]

I will respond to all the comments when/after another poem is posted.
So far I am somewhat surprised/disappointed that no one has seen the major influence in this poem. (One that continues to be an influence in almost all of my writing.)
QUOTE]

A shot in the dark. E.E Cummings?

 

[Guest]

My head hurts.

 

[twelveoone]

My thanks to everyone who has or will comment.

Would it help at all for me to mention that I purposefully left out the "to" in the title, and a "not" in the final line, and also all punctuation (I don't mean to influence anyone's interpretation; just a hint to what I was thinking when I wrote it.) - As always, "What you see is what you see is what you get." Once a poem is loosed upon the world, anything a reader gets from it is as valid as what the writer meant. (Acknowledgment to R. Frost)

I will respond to all the comments when/after another poem is posted.
So far I am somewhat surprised/disappointed that no one has seen the major influence in this poem. (One that continues to be an influence in almost all of my writing.)

Further hint on what I meant, the two strophes are meant to be reflections, or at least variations of each other.

I give up, Senna Jawa?
Mr. Ed? - Naayyy
Red Pine?
Emily Dickenson.

 

[twelveoone]

I will respond to all the comments when/after another poem is posted.
So far I am somewhat surprised/disappointed that no one has seen the major influence in this poem. (One that continues to be an influence in almost all of my writing.)

Further hint on what I meant, the two strophes are meant to be reflections, or at least variations of each other.

Yo, I'm still waiting, who?

 

[Rybka]

Cummings was my major influence at the time I wrote this.

The poem is merely meant to be two takes on the old saw that if you don't learn from history/mistakes they/you are bound to repeat it/them.

 

[twelveoone]

Cummings was my major influence at the time I wrote this.

The poem is merely meant to be two takes on the old saw that if you don't learn from history/mistakes they/you are bound to repeat it/them.

thank you, hey, bogus was right

 

[Angeline]

Near Nigh Now

Near nigh
to now
and not by my view
one equal share
of the truth shall they seek
or will relive
that of what is quiet

Time past
long past
life noise fades
behind all memories
sown and reaped by men
they forget
what life repeats
In times
Of now yet​

What's your take and do you see any influences?
All comments welcome.

Fishy friend, I'll come back and comment on this one after I revive myself with some dinner. I just wore myself out on my last crtique.

 

[Angeline]

Near Nigh Now

Near nigh
to now
and not by my view
one equal share
of the truth shall they seek
or will relive
that of what is quiet

Time past
long past
life noise fades
behind all memories
sown and reaped by men
they forget
what life repeats
In times
Of now yet​

What's your take and do you see any influences?
All comments welcome.

Overall: It's hard to make such an abstract combination of theme and word choice work, but I think this one just about nails it. I agree with Tess that this is a short poem that doesn't pack a punch in an expected way. There's nothing in it that grabs the reader and shakes her, but that's what is good about it, imo. It has a studied, thoughtful tentativeness that conveys the poet's ambivalence (regret?)about the message that we're bound to repeat mistakes. It has an odd poignent remove that is (and this will sound weird given its abstract quality) almost tangible.

I get the sense, Rybka, that you constructed this very carefully and there's a reason for every word you chose. I do get an ee cummings feel from it, but it's not obtrusive. There are a few words I question though.

When I first looked at it, I thought it should be centered (which Tess did), but seeing it thus, well, it seemed too perfect. I still feel like you could play with the spacing to underscore its questioning quality.

Specifically:

I like the title. The alliteration doesn't seem cloying at all to me.

Near nigh
to now
and not by my view
one equal share
of the truth shall they seek

"the" before "truth" seems unnecessary to me. You might have meant "the truth" as some unshakeable ideal, but that seems to go against the ambiguous feel of the rest the poem. Maybe just an extra word you can lose?

or will relive
that of what is quiet

Time past
long past

these two lines "Time past/long past" feel like the heart of the poem to me. They carry a sense of longing.

life noise fades
behind all memories

I prefer "memory." I think of it more as a singular mass noun that carries more weight that the busier "memories."

sown and reaped by men

I agree with whoever (Bogus?) said you don't need "by men." The "they" that starts the next line is strong enough to convey men or mankind or humankind, and balances nicely with the "they" in the fifth line.

they forget
what life repeats
In times

I wonder do you have a reason for capping "In"? If you wanted to emphasize something with it, I'm not getting it. It's not like "Time," which begins the second strophe and a new thought/sentence and seems like a natural place to cap.

Of now yet

***************************

And these are basically nitpicks. The poem has a terrific understated power.

 

[Rybka]

Overall: It's hard to make such an abstract combination of theme and word choice work, but I think this one just about nails it. I agree with Tess that this is a short poem that doesn't pack a punch in an expected way. There's nothing in it that grabs the reader and shakes her, but that's what is good about it, imo. It has a studied, thoughtful tentativeness that conveys the poet's ambivalence (regret?)about the message that we're bound to repeat mistakes. It has an odd poignent remove that is (and this will sound weird given its abstract quality) almost tangible.

I get the sense, Rybka, that you constructed this very carefully and there's a reason for every word you chose. I do get an ee cummings feel from it, but it's not obtrusive. . .

The Cummings poem whose words and style inspired me is this one. (My favorite)

one's not half two. It's two are halves of one:
by E.E. Cummings

one's not half two. It's two are halves of one:
which halves reintegrating,shall occur
no death and any quantity;but than
all numerable mosts the actual more

minds ignorant of stern miraculous
this every truth-beware of heartless them
(given the scalpel,they dissect a kiss;
or,sold the reason,they undream a dream)

one is the song which fiends and angels sing:
all murdering lies by mortals told make two.
Let liars wilt,repaying life they're loaned;
we(by a gift called dying born)must grow

deep in dark least ourselves remembering
love only rides his year.
All lose,whole find

***(Note that the spacing and lack there of are not mistakes. - The two lines in parentheses are perhaps my all time favorites, or close to them.)
As with this poem, I was also trying to get multiple meanings/emotions/pictures by arranging words and using line breaks, but no punctuation in mine and capitals for a start of a possible/potential new sentence/thought.

. . .
There are a few words I question though.

When I first looked at it, I thought it should be centered (which Tess did), but seeing it thus, well, it seemed too perfect. I still feel like you could play with the spacing to underscore its questioning quality. . .

Knowing me, you must know that I tried several different formatting styles and word placement on the page.

. . . Specifically:

I like the title. The alliteration doesn't seem cloying at all to me.

Near nigh
to now
and not by my view
one equal share
of the truth shall they seek

"the" before "truth" seems unnecessary to me. You might have meant "the truth" as some unshakeable ideal, but that seems to go against the ambiguous feel of the rest the poem. Maybe just an extra word you can lose? . . .

I will think about it, but I actually did mean "the truth" as in historical accuracy.

or will relive
that of what is quiet

Time past
long past

these two lines "Time past/long past" feel like the heart of the poem to me. They carry a sense of longing. This opening lines of the second stanza/variation were meant to be the mirrored reflection of the two lead lines of the first stanza/POV.

life noise fades
behind all memories

I prefer "memory." I think of it more as a singular mass noun that carries more weight that the busier "memories." . . .

I debated that, but I wanted to leave the ability of flowing into the next line, and I thought "memories sown" sounded "memory sown".

sown and reaped by men

I agree with whoever (Bogus?) said you don't need "by men." The "they" that starts the next line is strong enough to convey men or mankind or humankind, and balances nicely with the "they" in the fifth line. . .

The only reason for "the men" is to balance the length of the fifth line in the first stanza. - I will think about this too.

they forget
what life repeats
In times

I wonder do you have a reason for capping "In"? If you wanted to emphasize something with it, I'm not getting it. It's not like "Time," which begins the second strophe and a new thought/sentence and seems like a natural place to cap.

Of now yet

***************************

And these are basically nitpicks. The poem has a terrific understated power.

I considered putting the last two lines as their own separated couplet. I don't remember now why I decided not to, but I did mean them to be able to stand alone.

Thank you for your insightful comments!

 

[Angeline]

The Cummings poem whose words and style inspired me is this one. (My favorite)

one's not half two. It's two are halves of one:
by E.E. Cummings

one's not half two. It's two are halves of one:
which halves reintegrating,shall occur
no death and any quantity;but than
all numerable mosts the actual more

minds ignorant of stern miraculous
this every truth-beware of heartless them
(given the scalpel,they dissect a kiss;
or,sold the reason,they undream a dream)

one is the song which fiends and angels sing:
all murdering lies by mortals told make two.
Let liars wilt,repaying life they're loaned;
we(by a gift called dying born)must grow

deep in dark least ourselves remembering
love only rides his year.
All lose,whole find

***(Note that the spacing and lack there of are not mistakes. - The two lines in parentheses are perhaps my all time favorites, or close to them.)
As with this poem, I was also trying to get multiple meanings/emotions/pictures by arranging words and using line breaks, but no punctuation in mine and capitals for a start of a possible/potential new sentence/thought.

Knowing me, you must know that I tried several different formatting styles and word placement on the page.

I will think about it, but I actually did mean "the truth" as in historical accuracy.

I debated that, but I wanted to leave the ability of flowing into the next line, and I thought "memories sown" sounded "memory sown".

The only reason for "the men" is to balance the length of the fifth line in the first stanza. - I will think about this too.

I considered putting the last two lines as their own separated couplet. I don't remember now why I decided not to, but I did mean them to be able to stand alone.

Thank you for your insightful comments!

You're welcome you grumpy grouper. It was a pleasure to read and think hard on (don't tell RainMan I ended on a preposition).