2 people in one body fighting for sexual recognition

[Anne_Prospere]

I've decided I'm torn. I figure, the only way to get some peace of mind is to address my bipolar sexuality.
I yearn to be dominated, I want a strong older man/woman who is intense, charming, commanding. A hunter. I've read alot of threads about slow introduction of your mate into a BDSM life, and herein lies my problem. My other half, my stubborn, wont be pushed around, fighting bullheaded child throwing a tantrum.
A normal conversation between these 2 people would go something like this

Sub: I need to be taken, I want to be absolutely hijacked. To fulfill my potential and become a prized posession of a Fierce warrior. I want to feel justified submission, completely overpowered.

Brat: Don't tell me what to do, if you back me into a corner I'll fight my way out. If you persist, I'll run away, that'll show you. I'll manipulate you into quiet adoration and have you under my feet before you even remember
you've challenged me, underestimated me.

So then, how do I merge these 2 people so I can finally be at peace with my sexuality? I've already confused my husband intoa flurry, asking him to pleasse just rape me, and continuously turning him down when I feel things are not on my terms..all the while being slightly disgusted at how ready he is to just pander to my every need..

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Are we twins seperated at birth perhaps?

I hear and understand your delima fully.

I've decided I'm torn. I figure, the only way to get some peace of mind is to address my bipolar sexuality.
I yearn to be dominated, I want a strong older man/woman who is intense, charming, commanding. A hunter. I've read alot of threads about slow introduction of your mate into a BDSM life, and herein lies my problem. My other half, my stubborn, wont be pushed around, fighting bullheaded child throwing a tantrum.
A normal conversation between these 2 people would go something like this

Sub: I need to be taken, I want to be absolutely hijacked. To fulfill my potential and become a prized posession of a Fierce warrior. I want to feel justified submission, completely overpowered.

Brat: Don't tell me what to do, if you back me into a corner I'll fight my way out. If you persist, I'll run away, that'll show you. I'll manipulate you into quiet adoration and have you under my feet before you even remember
you've challenged me, underestimated me.

So then, how do I merge these 2 people so I can finally be at peace with my sexuality? I've already confused my husband intoa flurry, asking him to pleasse just rape me, and continuously turning him down when I feel things are not on my terms..all the while being slightly disgusted at how ready he is to just pander to my every need..

 

[pandoravampire]

I can only answer this from my own perspective.

Once i went into a relationship, in real life, and agreed to be someone's submissive. Then and only then, was the way through this dilema clear.

On the one hand, i didnt want to kneel, i wanted to be pushed to the floor. So that i could feel dropped into my lovely jubbly subbie space 'i' desired. But guess what? this fella only wanted me dropped when he wanted me dropped. He would not pander to my tricks, brattiness, i learnt slowly over time, that i can get all the bloody candy in the store my fat mouth can eat, and all i have to do to get it, is submit, his way, not my way, but his.

By rewarding my efforts to do things "his" way, and playing all the nasty little games i wanted to when i was being 'good', and ignoring me, when i was calling the shots, i soon learned how to obey easier.
My 'games' i played, no longer worked, i had to play things his way, or i got no opportunity for the rewards. Simple. Its not rocket science, its positive re-inforcement. And there is not a human on the planet (Dom's included) that are not open to this force.

Once im played with, the effects upon my submission are remarkable for me. Im all gooey, and subbie, im happy, im sooo relaxed, im just the best sub he's had around. So he plays with me some more! Such a neat catch 22 this D/s milarky!

Prior to being in a D/s relationship, when i was only wanting play partners. I was none too submissive at all. And as for subbing outside of play? get lost! It was all me, me, me, me, me. Just as it was for the Dom. Each serving their own purposes, and not really serving each others. That was what helped me make the transition. Changing from play partners, to a regular, day in day out, every day in and out, relationship. Where what id been taught on monday evening, was going to be applied on tuesday morning and so on.

And a pissed off Dom, is not something that puts out a lot of goodies i can tell ya. So, its not in my interests to piss him off in the first place.
Others can get to place, where its, 'his' needs, and 'his' wishes that mean the world. For me, not so far. I love him, and wanting him happy is the same as the for vanilla, but that's not my personal motivating factor. Having 'our' needs met is though, and this is best achieved by keeping him toot sweet

ps. being able to manipulate someone? if you can do this, then this person is not for you and you are not for them.
It is not a honest form of communication, manipulation, it shows poor communication between the two of you. And there is a loss of respect when you do this to another, for them, for being so easily manipulated, and for you, for being so manipulative. Manipulation is a lose/lose situation i think. Just like faking a orgasm is.

 

[Anne_Prospere]

I agree. I dont intentionally manipulate my husband, at least I hope Im not.. I just grew up using manipulation as a defense mechanism. Im at peace with that and I do my best to be blunt and honest as much as possible thanks for the advice chere*

another question, I wonder if its ok to just give up dreams of D/s for love of my husband? This looks like the road I'll end up taking.

 

[Anne_Prospere]

Are we twins seperated at birth perhaps?

I hear and understand your delima fully.

if that is you in your avatar chere, I could only hope we'd be twins

 

[Mr. Mann]

I think I am facing similar issues, but on the other side of the coin...

My wife wants to be taken, ravished, and dominated... yet she can be bratty. She doesn't want to willingly submit... she wants to please and serve, but she also wants to play coy and to resist. She "brats" because she wants me to pay attention to her and take control. Part of it is that she enjoys seeing the effect that she can have on me.

But OTOH I don't want to reward her bratty behavior. I want her to submit to me, not constantly resist and fight.

Yet she also wants things to match up with what is in her head... but what is in her head is me taking control and just doing what I want to do.

Catch-22 is right. It is confusing with all the different levels.

I'm getting closer to allowing myself to keep pushing her unless she actually uses the safeword.

Then again... the whole thing is based on trust and I feel a very huge responsibility in this thing.

I don't have any answers. We are still feeling our way through things.

 

[Netzach]

I wanted

to be dominated by the ideal Dominant who would do everything I wanted exactly the way I would do it, who would use me hard, but in the ways I wanted, who would make me feel the way I fantasized about feeling

then it occured to me. I'm really not submissive.

 

[brioche]

to be dominated by the ideal Dominant who would do everything I wanted exactly the way I would do it, who would use me hard, but in the ways I wanted, who would make me feel the way I fantasized about feeling

then it occured to me. I'm really not submissive.

Somehow, that makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Purple Sage]

There's BDSM that's about a person's core sexuality, and there's BDSM that's about 'issues'. For instance- trust issues. A person with serious trust issues can be strongly attracted to the IDEA of submission- recognizing on a deep level that to submit is to trust. And yet, those very issues interfere with the PRACTICE of submitting. From what little you've said, it sounds like this might be where you're coming from. You have a partner who is not so very aggressive/dominant to begin with- you can 'instruct' him in what you want. Such a partner can be attractive to someone with trust/fear issues, as they seem safe. Yet, when this partner does as you ask, you reject him. Partly, I would guess, you fear what you desire; partly you just have trouble trusting; and partly the fact that you can both tell him to 'dominate you' and also not let him falsifies the whole scenario, making even it's actualization unsatisfying. I'd suggest you address the sources of your fear/trust issues before driving your partner insane.

 

[Anne_Prospere]

There's BDSM that's about a person's core sexuality, and there's BDSM that's about 'issues'. For instance- trust issues. A person with serious trust issues can be strongly attracted to the IDEA of submission- recognizing on a deep level that to submit is to trust. And yet, those very issues interfere with the PRACTICE of submitting. From what little you've said, it sounds like this might be where you're coming from. You have a partner who is not so very aggressive/dominant to begin with- you can 'instruct' him in what you want. Such a partner can be attractive to someone with trust/fear issues, as they seem safe. Yet, when this partner does as you ask, you reject him. Partly, I would guess, you fear what you desire; partly you just have trouble trusting; and partly the fact that you can both tell him to 'dominate you' and also not let him falsifies the whole scenario, making even it's actualization unsatisfying. I'd suggest you address the sources of your fear/trust issues before driving your partner insane.

I'm not quite sure how to respond to that.
Thanks for your insight, I like your perspective, very rational and without illusion.

 

[FurryFury]

I had a conversation with my husband the other night. He made the unfortunate remark that in order to really Dom him, someone would have to physically overpower him.

Is this a brat thing or what?

Seriously, he's like 180 pounds and strong as fuck.

I'm 120 and as strong you might expect, in fact I can surprise in that area but damn!

When I mentioned the saran wrap and the tying him down though he admitted those two things had done the Dom thing for him.

How demanding these dudes are. Is it just me? Or is this sort of more demanding than most chicks? Well, that's what I was thinking until I read this thread.

I was thinking chicks don't have to be pushed physically by male Doms because they know the male can over power them but males need to feel pushed because they don't know that. I thought that's why they want to have it so fucking rough. Now, I'm not so sure.

*shrugs*

Fury

 

[Mr. Mann]

Purple Sage,

Thanks for your insight. Those are the kind of deeper and more fundamental perspectives that I am personally searching for. If you have the time and inclination, I'd certainly be interested in hearing more from you, or being directed to other threads, sources, right questions to ask, search terms to use, etc.

I sense the trust issues at play in this.

It seems as if part of it the attraction, or the manner that it satisfies a need, is that the desire is for

[strength, dominance, physical protection] + [emotional intimacy]

as opposed to

[strength, dominance, physical protection] - [emotional intimacy]

Does a woman (in this case a woman with particular needs and desires for dominance) go through a process where they are attracted to a dominant male, seek to achive emotional intimacy thus making them less dominant in their relationship? And then still have a need for dominance and seek that dominance without giving up the emotional intimacy that has been achieved?

Perhaps the woman is both attracted to, yet also bristles at the dominance prior to emotional intimacy being established. Then as emotional intimacy and trust are well founded, the dominance subsides into something more akin to mutuality, trust, vulnerability, and respect. In seeking to regain the dominance as a factor, the spector of losing the emotional intimacy looms large.

The "bratting" (I love that term) is a test, a control tactic, and a communication. Bratting is both a way to express stress and tensions and like waving a flag shouting - "hey, I need to feel the safety of your control and attention. I need the validation of seeing that only I can have that effect on you. I am able to control this by sending you this signal."

I don't pretedn to have answers. I'm not sure there really area any. I'm just trying to gain enough insight to be able to coninue asking the right questions.

 

[Netzach]

I had a conversation with my husband the other night. He made the unfortunate remark that in order to really Dom him, someone would have to physically overpower him.

Is this a brat thing or what?

Seriously, he's like 180 pounds and strong as fuck.

I'm 120 and as strong you might expect, in fact I can surprise in that area but damn!

When I mentioned the saran wrap and the tying him down though he admitted those two things had done the Dom thing for him.

How demanding this dudes are. Is it just me? Or is this sort of more demanding than most chicks? Well, that's what I was thinking until I read this thread.

I was thinking chicks don't have to be pushed physically by male Doms because they know the male can over power them but males need to feel pushed because they don't know that. I thought that's why they want to have it so fucking rough. Now, I'm not so sure.

*shrugs*

Fury

*chuckle*

I think guys just operate more from a place of entitlement and attachment to fantasies, whereas women are more open to compromising with reality in an effort to connect.

I've gotten "you're too small, too, cute, I need to be TOTALLY OVERPOWERED Mistress" blah blah blah" My life is filled with such neeeeeeds as must be fulfilled.

If you really want to fulfill his need for helplessness, get a cage, or get an *external* catheter for your next saran adventure and tell him he's not going anywhere till you are damn well done with him and it could be days. Overpowering is in the attitude, and he's fucking with you by making you question your own.

 

[FurryFury]

*chuckle*

I think guys just operate more from a place of entitlement and attachment to fantasies, whereas women are more open to compromising with reality in an effort to connect.

I've gotten "you're too small, too, cute, I need to be TOTALLY OVERPOWERED Mistress" blah blah blah" My life is filled with such neeeeeeds as must be fulfilled.

If you really want to fulfill his need for helplessness, get a cage, or get an *external* catheter for your next saran adventure and tell him he's not going anywhere till you are damn well done with him and it could be days. Overpowering is in the attitude, and he's fucking with you by making you question your own.

Those are some good ideas. The problem is, and he should know this by now, you do not want to challenge me unless you are truly ready for what I will do. I will bring it.

I was married before. He took total sexual control over me and it wasn't consensual but I loved him and anytime he wanted something I made damned sure he got it. I will move heaven and earth for those I care about. The problem was, once he had it, it was shit to him. Gold turned to shit once he had it in his grasp.

This one communicates much better and he usually actually wants what he tells me he does. We will see how this particular need voiced progresses.

*chuckles*

I don't know what I will end up doing but there will be something. I'm taking your ideas and contemplating.

Now back to this original thread thoughts.

I think that if I were the Dom in question or the spouse being pushed into being a Dom by the needs of my partner and that partner said to me, I want XYZ. I'd try to give it to them. They wouldn't know when or who but one day/night I'd be like NOW. If they said, "No, not now, or I have a headache or it just doesn't feel right, I'd get damned frustrated.

I would start to think I had failed. That is never a good thing in a relationship. S/he wants someone one else is another thought I might have which could be destructive.

I would insist on communication. Perhaps this person needs to be tied down and even gagged. This push pull thing can't go on in any case. Either you want it and you want it with me or you don't. Make up your mind Missy, lets work this out or lets drop it. That's how I would feel.

As me I want what I want and I am usually able to communicate it then follow through. Sometimes that means I just want to make him happy. Sometimes that means I want to be figged or fucked with ice or spanked. Lately he has been taking so much yummy control I'm content to not have ideas. I think his little "slip" is telling me it's time to step back up though!

Okay so my thoughts meandered. I'm sick still, nearly well but sick enough to use that as an excuse. Everything in the whole wide world is connected anyway, at least in my lil mind.

Fury

 

[Quint]

Another sympathetic ear here. It occurs to me, having just watched another Dog Whisperer episode, that maybe I have this "bipolar submission" because it gets reinforced at the wrong times. When I want to be dominated, I put on the wiles and, T being a fan of the cunt, steps up. That reinforces the idea that I'm calling the shots, which is totally detrimental to submitting when I DON'T want to be dominated. It's kind of a mind-over-matter thing, and in retrospect, I think that T and I would have sidestepped this issue much more successfully if we weren't so young and impatient. Neither of us have learned much about self-restraint and so we aren't nearly as consistent as we'd like to be. Damn that was a good thought! Must go chat it out.

Anyway, if I come to a good conclusion, I'll be sure to share it. In the meantime, you have my sympathy.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

While I have a certain sympathy about the dilemna posed in the OP (original post), as a Dominant, an Owner, I have my own take on the issue. The following is an exerpt from an essay I wrote a while back:

My Dominance comes from My heart. Just as My love does. Do not confuse tenderness with weakness, and strictness with Dominance. I can be as soft and tender as a teddy bear and Dominate you. It is who I am. You follow Me because it is your heart's path to do so. It is, perhaps, your thought that a Dominant somehow needs to maintain their position, that they must "make" their submissives... submit. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I don't have to _do_ anything to make you submit. If I have to make you do it, whether by use of coercion, pain, strength, blackmail, you are not submitting, you are not consenting. I am forcing.

There is a huge difference between a scene such as a mock rape or kidnapping, and living in a power exchange. Within the context of a scene I may threaten, cajole, use force, whatever... But in My relationship, I will not _make_ you do anything. I will not punish with anything more than disappointment and something to make you regard your error, perhaps a writing assignment or an unpleasant household chore. You submit to My will and My direction. I do not force you to follow.

Consent. You consent to our relationship. You submit to My will. If you do not, then perhaps it is best for you to seek someone who will play the game you seek. I don't play emotional games in My relationship. I expect submission. Submission does not mean blind obedience. Submission does not mean becoming a doormat. Submission means that you turn your will over to Me. My decisions are your law. That doesn't mean you can't argue, because I have charged you with looking after My best interests. You are charged with taking care of Me, meeting My needs. If I do something that you feel is against My best interest, it is your duty to ME to point that out. And My duty to you to listen. And then decide what to do. And once I make that decision it is your duty to try to make it come out right.

There is more to the essay but I think that the above bit hits the proper points. Communicate your needs, your desires. Then get your ego and pride out of the way and submit.

 

[raven2]

While I have a certain sympathy about the dilemna posed in the OP (original post), as a Dominant, an Owner, I have my own take on the issue. The following is an exerpt from an essay I wrote a while back:



There is more to the essay but I think that the above bit hits the proper points. Communicate your needs, your desires. Then get your ego and pride out of the way and submit.

Very nice essay and well thought out.

 

[O'Mac]

So then, how do I merge these 2 people so I can finally be at peace with my sexuality? I've already confused my husband into a flurry, asking him to pleasse just rape me, and continuously turning him down when I feel things are not on my terms..all the while being slightly disgusted at how ready he is to just pander to my every need..

I've definitely been there with regards to your husband's point of view. It's incredibly frustrating to want to play a role all the time, but have your partner in and out of certain moods in a more random fashion.

I think I'd agree with quite a few points out there so far, and would doubly emphasis the remark about Domination through consent. Agreeing to your role as submissive, slave, or servant shouldn't be turned on or off on a whim. I believe the Dom/sub relationship should be taken into consideration at all times during intimacy and the role of each respected as such. As a sub, you're role is to please your Master, and he/she has been given the responsibility of deciding what should be done with you.

Good remarks by the way, Evil_Geoff

 

[FurryFury]

While I have a certain sympathy about the dilemna posed in the OP (original post), as a Dominant, an Owner, I have my own take on the issue. The following is an exerpt from an essay I wrote a while back:



There is more to the essay but I think that the above bit hits the proper points. Communicate your needs, your desires. Then get your ego and pride out of the way and submit.

Evil_Geoff,

Your words are wise and brilliant as usual.

Fury