10-20-02 Just_John1

[KillerMuffin]

I have been such a bad moderator person. *sighs* I've been hiding from this forum among other things. Hopefull now that I've got myself back togther a little bit I'll stop doing that.

Anyway, next up!

Just_John1. I'll be emailing him since it's been forever.

I am a lit bulletin board virgin but would like to put up Mental Telepathy chapters 1 & 2 for consideration, critique and general abuse if necessary. Just wanted to get some feedback from fellow authors if possible.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=49635

He has no questions for you, just a feedback request.

 

[the_bragis]

Hello Just John,

Please understand this is my first effort in this forum, (I'm a virgin here too) and so I am feeling a tad intimidated posting here with the big wig authors. I am not an expert or an editor, but I am happy to give my thoughts and opinions.

I read heaps of Literotica stories, but I've only ever read one other mind control tale. It was a very extreme variety,and I really didn't enjoy it that much. This one is different, it's light and almost a little bit humorous.

You are right, wouldn't this just be every mans' dream? Hey, and wouldn't this just be the ultimate form of 'safe' sex too?

Ok, this is what I noted as I read:

The spelling and grammar all looked fine to me, however, I did note couple of words that seemed a little out of place to me. A couple of example : faceless legs... several moans snuck from between John's lips... silky voice ... air slowly trickle from her lungs These sounded odd to me.

You know what? This is just me again, but I would have liked to see your story begin with John being woken up by the rain straight after his car had crashed. Or perhaps just before his car crashed as he was thinking about Nancy, would have been a good opener? I think there maybe just too much back story here.

As John was driving home from his over 30 league baseball game, after putting in four 16 hour days at the office, it began to rain. His fuse had blown on his radio and he was thinking of how to get the bastards at the Mercedes dealership to fix the thing for real this time. Four times to the dealership for the same problem was really pissing him off now. Better to think of something pleasant, like Nancy at the office. God was she beautiful. He wanted her to notice him but always seemed to stand in the elevator with her in total silence.

To me, this was more information than was really needed.

Something like this perhaps?

As John drove home in silence it began to rain. The fuse had blown on his car radio. How can I get the bastards at the Mercedes dealership to fix the thing for real this time, he thought. Better to think of something pleasant, like Nancy at the office. God is she beautiful. I want her to notice me but even when we are alone in the elevator she never speaks. (It's ok to switch to present tense in thought.)


The reader really isn't interested, and simply doesn't need to know, where he's been, or how hard he's been working, or how many times he's tried to get the fuse fixed. Unless it's relating to your story in some way it's just not necessary, and details like this will simply clog up a good read. Your story is three pages long, it could easily have been cut back to two without losing anything of the story line, impact, or interest. This isn't my wisdom, check out the more experienced authors, they really know how to trim the fat, and put out a lean mean story.

It took him a couple of days to get his shit together enough to leave the hospital, the Dr telling him had been lucky when he had been thrown from the car.

Slang doesn't't always work in story telling. Unless it's written in the first person, or it's part of dialog. Also, don't use abbreviations, type 'doctor'. Type numbers as words.

John snuck quietly down the hall back to his office. He quietly put his things away, turned off his light and snuck to the stair well, thinking it would be best if he went down a flight or two before getting on the elevator.

Try to avoid repeating words too close together, if you can. Two snucks and two quietlys is just too much in this short passage. I noticed this occured a number of times in your story. It's not a big deal, but it's something you may want to watch out for. Also, 'snuck quietly' sounded like a tautology to me.

John did pretty good at concentrate..

Sure I know people say 'good' instead of 'well' all the time, but it's still not correct English. Again it's not a big deal, but it will really bug the life out of some readers.

Now I can't see the point of extra letters in a word. God, that's goooood... Ohh you do that, ohhh, so good... To me 'good' is just as good as 'gooood'. Do the extra vowels really add impact? I don't think so, but then again, others may disagree with me here.

Could he get to a woman that wasn't already thinking of sex? Sounded like another experiment was on the way.

Cute! This, like much of your story, made me smile.

Ok, overall, this is a good little read. I may even read more mind control stories now.

I wish you well with your future writing.

Have a great day now,

Alex (fem).

 

[TheEarl]

Evening Just John. I'm going to put in quotes of where I found any problems with the story as I read through, so apologies if the points seem a bit tangential.

"Although reasonably attractive, at slightly over 6 feet, trim at 190 pounds and athletic with dark brown hair and eyes, his shyness held him back from being defined as a "ladies' man." He had a good sense of humor, was laid back and could deal with most stressful events without getting unreasonably angry, but wasn't a pushover and could hold his own in an argument. His work kept him pretty busy but he still had time to wish he could attract several of the ladies at the office and add some quality playtime to his schedule. He still looked younger than his years at age 40."

This paragraph is a bit overlong. Description IMHO should involve picking out three or four main details, the first things you see when you view the character in your mind's eye. Anything else you need should be worked into the story. Also some of the sentences are v. simplistic and formulaic. You use "He" or "his" as the start of a sentence or phrase 5 times here and it tends to jar on the eye. Readers may not know why they don't like it, but it'll distract from the story. I would suggest:

"He looked younger than his years at 40 and his tall, athletic body should have attracted many admirers, but his shyness held him back from being defined as a "ladies' man." His work kept him pretty busy but he still had time to wish he could attract several of the ladies at the office and add some quality playtime to his schedule."

Although not perfect, it's more concise and easier to read. The stuff about his sense of humour and argument ability should be cut unless they have a big part to play in the story, in which case they should be worked into the plot, rather than hand-fed (maybe by showing him argue, rather than telling us).


"He did notice that she had no rings, but an awesome body."

I don't understand why the first part of the sentence relates to the second. "He noticed that she had no rings and had an awesome body" is better. Still not perfect, but it removes the "but" which suggests a connection.


"Long legs that appeared from under her normally, just slightly shorter than appropriate skirts, with trim, muscular in that feminine sort of way calves, long thighs with the muscle ridge that told him they were firm, under skin that appeared so soft."

V. good sentence. I would have replaced "that" with "a", but this is excellent description, giving a fantastic picture of her.


"A knothole in a tree looked good at certain times, of course there was the splinter thing, everything had its downside, but he wasn't sure if he would really go through with it if given the chance."

Lol. Might be an idea to split into two sentences, as this has a lot of comma separated phrases. Also not sure if "go through with it" is referring to the nurse or the knothole.


Scenes with the nurses are hot. V. well described. "Her face was filled with conflicting emotions that John determined were a mixture of curiosity and frustration. She seemed like she was on the edge of orgasm but she seemed mad at John at the same time. And she had a look on her face that begged the question... "What the fuck is going on here?" Good description, really lets you get into what's happening. Had to skip back to find an example, because I'd got so engrossed in the story I'd forgotten to critique it.


"The expression similar to what one would expect from a deer caught in the headlights on a cold winter day during hunting season." Good use of metaphor to describe your participants. Description on the librarian was perfect, I have a picture of her in my head, but I don't remember reading it.


"Her short dark blue skirt highlighted the fact that she had a flat stomach, a nice tight ass, with no panty lines."

This sentence would be better without the "highlighted the fact." it's needless words and it'll bother the reader subliminally. Try "Her short dark blue skirt showed her flat stomach and a nice tight ass with no panty lines."


"Had she smiled as she turned thinking John had actually touched her ass. Was the instant disappearance of her smile due to the feeling of having her ass felt by a relative stranger, or because she had realized that she had only imagined his touch."

Question marks. May seem petty to bring up a grammar point, but it's two in a row here. Admittedly I missed this on the first read, but it's still important.


"Well, I was kind of hoping to get a start on it and then wanted to try to get out here almost on time, its 4:00 and I was hoping to get out of here by at least 5:30."

Ungainly sentence. Say it aloud to yourself, or to a willing volunteer and see what sounds unnatural. This isn't something someone would say; people are lazy, they'll use the fewest words and the most concatenations (yes I am aware I've just contradicted myself by saying concatenations, when abbreviations would have done ). "Well, I was kinda hoping to get a start on it so I could get out of here on time, it's 4:00 and I was hoping to get out of here by about 5:30."

Quick note on the last sentence: I didn't notice it till I was typing it myself, but "It is" should always be "it's" (Same with "it has"). "Its" is used for a possessive, eg. "Its balloon."


"...she flashed him a smile that played at the corners of her eyes, flashed her bright white teeth, a few creases giving her face character and endearing her to him just a little more."

IMHO this sentence should have an "and" in between "eyes" and "flashed" as it's a bit to convoluted as it stands.


"It smelled sensuous, womanly, with a touch of sex thrown in."

Same thing happens here, I think an "and" should go between "sensuous" and "womanly." The problem is you are not distinguishing between the commas you are using. The first comma in the sentence is part of a list, but the second is not part of the list, it denotes a new phrase. If you just have "It smelled sensuous, womanly." then it isn't grammatically correct. You need an "and" as the list is only two items. Tip: If you have a sperate part of the sentence separated by commas, then removing it should still leave you with a viable sentence. "...she flashed him a smile that played at the corners of her eyes and flashed her bright white teeth." is still grammatically correct, because there is now an "and" there.

Rant over. On with the story.


"The hours passed and he slowly but surely finished his project. He finally rose from his desk and glanced at the clock, 11:13." To me these two sentences could be compacted into "When he finally rose from his desk it was 11:13." "Slowly and surely" is a bit of a cliche and most of the rest of the information is unecessary to the story. However that is just a matter of opinion.


"No way John, that's really too far out to be real." Her curiosity overriding her sense of anger."

The dialogue her is slightly stilted (I don't agree with the really, but again that is a MOI), but the tag is the main problem. The dialogue tag is either in the wrong tense, or you are missing some words. The story is past tense, but "overriding" is present. You either need "overrode" or "she said, her curiosity overriding..."


"Her breasts hanging pendulously as she leaned over the table almost begged to be touched."

This is a present tense verb again. Keep an eyes out for changes of tense. I don't like pendulously either, it smacks of drooping, but again that's a MOI.


"John's face turned beet red as he said "I'm really sorry, I just can't seem to control it yet, I'm trying not to"

Nancy looked John in the eye, and said "I don't want you to stop. It feels good."

Another MOI coming up, but this is my pet peeve, so I have to mention it. I hate "said." To me, it is Satan's dialogue tag and there are so many more things you can have. I try to avoid using said at all in my stories unless absolutely necessary. IMO these two sentences would be better like:

"John's face turned beet red. "I'm really sorry, I just can't seem to control it yet, I'm trying not to"

Nancy looked John in the eye. "I don't want you to stop. It feels good."

Rant over.


"God, that's goooood... don't stop, I'm getting close.... Ohh you do that, ohhh, so good... I'm going to... ohh you're going make me... ohhh please please make me cum..."

This is known technical circles as the Neverending Orgasm. Most people don't like it. It's a lazy way to show pleasure and you can do a lot better to show what she's feeling. You have in fact done a lot better earlier in the story.


"That was wonderful, thank you" and she laughed. That is absolutely amazing, you never touched me and I never touched myself but that was one of the best orgasms I've ever had." And then she asked, "can you do that to everyone?"

Stilted dialogue again. This would be how I'd rewrite this passage:

"Thank you, that was wonderful" she laughed. "That's amazing. You didn't touch me and I didn't touch myself, but that was one of the best orgasms I've ever had." She paused for a second to catch her breath. "Can you do that to everyone?" she asked.

Most of that is your own words. I don't like wonderful and amazing, but it's your dialogue, so if you see your character saying that, then go for it. "You never touched" isn't correct English; I'm not entirely sure why, but it's wrong. "You didn't touch" is correct English and gives the same effect.

"She paused for a second to catch her breath." is entirely my fabrication, but I needed to put a non-dialogue gap between the wonder and the question, as I think the dialogue is all too sudden otherwise. Sentences should rarely start with And, especially not if the next word is Then, so I put the "she asked" to the end of the sentence and added the gap.


"Besides..." John continued lamely, "We're going to be late getting back to work."

"We're not going back to work today."

"Now slide your fingers along the sides of her breasts, don't actually touch them just run your hands gently up and down the sides."

The second and third pieces of dialogue are connected and by the same person and so should be in the same paragraph. It's clear at second glance who is speaking, but reader's don't want to have to make a second glance, they should be happy with their first. The first two pieces of dialogue are v.good and natural, but I feel the second one needs a full stop before "don't" and a comma before "just."


"Look at her nipples, she feels it!" Nancy said excitedly.

"Let your fingers caress her nipples, roll them gently between your fingers" she said as her fingers traced the length of John's erection. The tingles made John shudder slightly.

"Does that help or make it more difficult?" Nancy asked John."

Again, the same person is speaking across three paragraphs. Confusing to the reader. It doesn't matter that John is the last person mentioned in paragraph 2, Nancy is still the last to speak so it should be the same paragraph. The dialogue tag of "Nancy asked John" is a little stilted; "Nancy asked" would suffice.


"White shots of cum shooting between Nancy's fingers" Tense switch again. Check your story through for these.


"She slid her panties to the floor to fall like a puddle at her feet and she grabbed his wrist with her hand forcing his fingers to her moist cleft."

I know what you mean, but puddles don't tend to fall. Make sure your metaphors make sense. Also IMHO, the second "she" is superfluous.


"John began to thrust up and into her, forcing her back against the wall. He moans were slowly changing to grunts as the pleasure in her body built. Nancy could feel the pleasure coursing through her body. She could feel his thrusts, she felt so full as the length of his cock spread her inner walls and traced over her engorged clit with each thrust. Her other leg gave as the pleasure overtook her ability to stand and they slid down the wall as John continued to thrust into her deeply"

You have used "thrust" 4 times here and "pleasure" 3 times. Make sure you check for repeated words.


"As the tingles continued to race from her nipples and Nancy felt John's hands rhythmically separating the cheeks of her ass, she also felt her nipples being pulled by John's imaginary fingers."

Confused here; too many clauses. "As" suggests there is going to be another, separate, phrase separated by a comma after the first phrase. Instead there is an "and" which is then followed by a comma and the separate phrase. I'm only vaguely sure of what you were thinking at the time and I'm poring over the story, readers will get confused and it'll distract them from the story. Some writers suggest using a dictaphone to speak your stories into and then play them back so you can hear what things sound like. I find that the playback is unecessary as I find a lot of errors when I speak it and think "Hey, this isn't right."


"She lost what we know as consciousness as she felt his fingers trace her ass"

What we know as consciousness? Sounds a little pretentious.


"John's world had reduced only to his cock and the soft sheath into which he thrust."

Very good sentence. Good description.


"When Nancy had finally recovered enough to speak again she said; "ya know... you're going to have to learn to control that... and I'm just the one to help you learn..."

Apart from the use of the devil-word, this doesn't seem right. Pauses like this should be signified by ellipses. Ellipses should be used for breaks or interruptions in thought or speech, not normal pauses. Also the semi-colon is misused here. If the tag is before the speech, all you need is a comma.

"When Nancy had finally recovered enough to speak again she said, "ya know, you're going to have to learn to control that." She grinned wickedly. "And I'm just the one to help you learn..."

The one occasion when you can use "And" at the start of a sentence without feeling guilty is in dialogue. Cause people are lazy and don't follow grammar rules.



Overall this was an excellent story. I know I picked a lot of holes, but I found it incredibly arousing and on the whole well written. Most of the things I have picked up on are simple errors that should be picked up in an edit. I'd suggest asking someone nicely to edit for you, or reading it aloud to yourself. Alternatively you can write it in longhand, then rewrite on computer or vice-versa. That always works for me. The sex scenes were v.hot and entertaining, it was just the interims that I spotted the errors. Be reassured by the fact that I had to check over several times, before I was calm enough to objectively read the sex scenes for mistakes.

Sorry if I'm a little harsh, but do remember to consider the source. You are a much better writer than I am, so feel free to say "Ah, what does he know" and ignore me.

The Earl

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Just John1,

Alex and The Earl have given you a pretty complete going over, so I'll stick to a few basics. You've got a unique "voice" but sometimes this involves using unorthodox structure and grammar which might knock some readers out of the story.

For instance:

"As John was driving home from his over 30 league baseball game, after putting in four 16 hour days at the office, it began to rain."
--This was a real hitch in the get-along for me and it took two or three readings before I could figured it out. While some grammar work is needed, the main problem is you've put way too much info into one sentence. 1. He's driving home. 2. He's just finished playing a baseball game in the "Over 30" league. 3. He's put in four 16 hour days at the office, and 4. It's raining.

"Nice firm breasts, with nipples that always seemed to be at attention."
--This is an incomplete sentence-a sentence fragment.

"How he had wanted to raise his hand and say "ooh me ooh me" when she was lamenting about the fact that there isn't a decent guy out there anywhere, to her friends."
--IMHO, your sentence organization is sometimes confusing. In this example, if that last phrase had been placed after "lamenting" the sentence would have read smoother and been less confusing.
--Using that same sentence, the quotation, even though it's his thought, should be treated like a spoken quote. "...and say, "Ooh, me! Ooh, me!" when she..."
--By the way, notice those three little dots. Ellipsis/ellipses may be the most mis-used punctuation marks in the English language. They denote an omission, not a break, most often in a quotation. To indicate a break, use a dash.

Okay, after what Alex and The Earl did, that's more than enough nit-picky stuff from me.

You've got a good imagination and this story has a lot of potential. However, IMHO, it takes way too much time to get going. This isn't a value judgement, it's a problem we all face in the modern writing world. Agents, editors, and readers simply won't hang around to find out what the story is about. If you don't "hook" the reader quickly, they'll move on to someone else's story.

Good luck.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Impetus]

Stuff!

Greets, Jonny.

So let's discuss this little puppy. I'll start at the beginning and we'll see how far I go.

Ch1

If you want to include the first paragraph as some sort of 'setup' or intro to the series, try to offset it somehow. Put it in italics, put a line break below. It doesn't really belong with the actual story.

First few paragraphs.
Call me short-attention spanned if you will, but I really like stories that offer something to draw me in and intrigue me immediately. The first three or four paragraphs are just exposition, which, while important, doesn't make the reader really want to keep reading. Try getting some sort of hook into the story immediately so that the reader will be immediately drawn in and excited to find out what the story is all about, then when you get to the relatively unexciting exposition, the reader has some literary momentum going and won't feel like their trudging through stuff.

Edit:
Light brown straight hair that looked like silk that flowed over her shoulders to the middle of her back.

Straight, Light brown hair that looked like silk and flowed over her shoulders to the middle of her back.

Edit:
Long legs that appeared from under her normally, just slightly shorter than appropriate skirts, with trim, muscular in that feminine sort of way calves, long thighs with the muscle ridge that told him they were firm, under skin that appeared so soft.

Long legs that appeared from from under her just-slightly-shorter-than-appropratie skirts. Trim calves, muscular in a feminine sort of way. Long thighs with a ridge of muscle that hinted at a firmness beneath her soft skin.

I include these as examples. Generally try to watch for sentences that run on too long or that jump awkwardly from idea to idea.

I like the description of Nancy, enough to start me forming an image in my mind, but not so much to staple me into a corner. I also like that the first thing you mention were her breasts. Shows where the main character's mind is.

Ooooh...nice sudden transition with the car wreck there. Very appropriately jolting. Out of left field. Neato.

The motion from the 'car accident' zone to the 'hot nurse' zone was a bit quick. Try sliding into it so that we don't feel like we're just suddenly admiring a nurse.

More good descriptors with the nurses. Makes them feel like real people. I also like the way the way you described the nurses reactions, especially her running from the room. Really funny.

I like the story proposition too. It's just enough of a twist on the standard mind-control genre that it's fun to read.

See if you can find a better way to start sentenses than 'he imagined.' It gets repetative.

"...sensible cotton panties, but the dichotomy was lost on John." Wah! What a great line!

The scene with the 'bookish' woman was darned solid overall. Good writing. I also kind of like the 'scientific approach' that the guy is taking, but perhaps that's because I'm an engineer.

"He was afraid to think." Ooooh...another neat line. Thinking of baseball. Funny!

Nice, natural dialog between nancy and John. Good stuff. I also liked the 'scene' between them at night in the office. It's just a neat idea. Having sex with someone in another room without them knowing. He he!

"I've really enjoyed working with someone who is pushing the edges of the system. You're ideas have been great, I've ummm really enjoyed working with you" -- This is just an awkward thing to say. 'Really enjoyed' twice, and all. If that's what you were aiming for, kudos. If not, consider revision.

Dropping this whole thing on her the first time they have lunch together? I don't think that should work as well as it did.

I like the idea of Nancy guiding his fantasy. Hot and clever. Two at once? Also hot and clever.

Nice ending to the first chapter too. Hot, clever, and intriguing.

Generally I'd say that you had some pretty solid descriptions of people and events, and some pretty clever ideas. Your writing suffers a bit from run-on sentences and the run-on ideas that go with them. But overall, a nice story to read. Kudos.

-I

 

[Just_John1]

Finally clued in!

First an apology to Killer Muffin, I didn't know I had come up for review. I apologize for the delay in response.

Bragis, You shouldn't be so intimidated, your review has been pretty right on. I have recently developed a friendhsip with an editor and she says the same thing. I guess I write the way I think, god what a scary concept. I also have had some really painful conversations with my editor regarding the use of extra letters. I really appreciate your feedback and will try to adjust my style in the future. Thank you so much for taking the time to read through and offer your insight.

The Earl, First a question... What does IMHO mean? I think you are right on with the don't go on so long thing. I apprecaite the advice.

You're absolutely correct on the ungainly sentence. I do need to work on that in general. I think differently than I speak and perhaps it would be a good exercise to read these things aloud. I will always fear, from now on Satan's tag line... LOL now THAT will stick with me forever. Thankyou!

I never really understood the paragraph in dialog thing. I'll work on that. As I read through your review I have come to the conclusion that your mastery of the english language dwarfs mine! My only hope is an editor. I completely disagree with you on the better writer thing. I really appreciate your time and advice I think I have alot to learn thanks.

Rumple, Your opinion is as always appreciated (I know repetitive words but I just can't help it). You're right I do struggle to get into the story line a bit, particularly in this story but I think my writing as a whole I struggle with this. The general impression that I'm getting here is to write what I have to say and then go back and cut the extra words. Thank you

Impetus, Thank you as well for your time. I do have a tendency to run on don't I? Never noticed it as much as now. thank you for the positive but thank you more for the constructive.

To all, including Killer, I'm really sorry for the delay in response, I know I should;'ve been checking everyday but I didn't. I'm so sorry. Thank you.

Just_John1

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

JJ1,

IMHO = In My Humble Opinion

I don't know what The Earl's excuse is, but I use it a lot when doing critiques to remind both the writer and myself that what I'm giving isn't a chiseled in stone version of the gospel of writing, but simply my thoughts and ideas.

Remember, there is only one absolute rule in writing, thou shalt not bore the reader. If doing that takes breaking every rule of grammar in Stunk and White, go for it. As you suggested, worry about the story first, then go back and make it look pretty. As old E Hemingway said, "First drafts are crap."

Rumple Foreskin