1-3-03 Rumple Foreskin

[KillerMuffin]

I've posted a new story "Mix & Match" in the Erotic Couplings section. It includes some interracial, lesbian, incest, group, anal and, oh yeah, heterosexual scenes plus a touch of romance. (I wonder if that's some sort of record?)

It and when things pick up around here, I'd be interested in a little sage advice and critique.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=65739

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Greetings,

IMHO, one of the great things about Lit is how it lets you take chances and experiment with your writing. "Mix and Match" is an example. I wanted to see how many categories I could fit comfortably into a short story which I hoped would be hot and entertaining, but also decently written with a believable premise and some character developement.

I've been picking on the writing of many of you for awhile, now it's your turn. How did my experiment work? Give me your best shot. Come on, I can take it-just remember, I'm a bleeder.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I found the sex scenes peculiarly flat and unexciting, maybe 'dispassionate' is a better word. I get the feeling that you weren't really that into them yourself. Maybe this comes from writing scenes that don't really appeal to you that much, but I had a sense that you were kind of hurrying past the sex scenes. In any case, you don't give us the kind of detail and description that tell me that you'd really enjoyed thinking about the sex scenes and imagining them in detail,

There's a good deal of telling-not-showing in the sex. The scenes seem to invariably end with a "she had an incredible climax" or some brief description of how great someone's orgasm was, but I didn't see any screaming, any scratching, any curling toes, none of the images I associate with an orgasm.

The first sex scene seemed really gratuitous and I could almost see you thinking, "Hmm. I'd better start this off with a sex scene right away." I also thought there was a odd attention to the character's needs to urinate at the start. Yeah, I know everyone has to pee when they get up, but usually I just tend to ignore it in the interest of maintaining the rerotic illusion.

Another part that caught my eye unpleasantly was the description of Jessie's cock. All I could think of was some weird deformed mushroom shaped thing, and it stuck with me through the rest of the story.

I personally don't like incest. Maybe I'm just hung-up, or maybe it's some sort of vestige of morality, but at best it always makes me feel sleazy for hanging around with these people. Like: what losers that the only way they can get laid is with someone who has to like them. But apparently a lot of people do like it.
That being said, it seems to me that a lot of the attraction comes from knowing that the act is forbidden and 'wrong'. In most of the incest that I have had the stomach to look at, it's treated very casually, as if, "Oh, by the way: they're brother and sister." There must be some thoughts or feelings that run through the characters' heads that could make the idea of the wrongness or forbidden thrill of incest more more apparent. Actually, you've done better than most of what I've seen in that, but I still don't see a big difference between this scene and a run-of-the-mill sex scene.

The same is true of the inter-racial sex. What is it that makes inter-racial sex different & distinct from plain same-race sex? It's more than the fact that you tell us one of the characters is black. Jessie comes off as a regular guy who happens to be black. This may be the truth, but in porn it misses the thing that makes inter-racial exciting.

I also had trouble with the dialogue. It read very unnaturally to me. And, just like the dialogue, I found the behavior of the characters very artificial and contrived, and preictable. these aren't people; they're characters. Neither they nor their actions nor their feelings seemed real to me.

I wonder if all these criticisms are a result of your setting yourself the 'task' of cramming in all these sex acts. It's as if you went into the kitchen and decided to see how could a cakje you could bake using as many ingredients as possible. You know that putting mustard in the cake won't help the end product, but you put it in anyhow. The result is not a good cake.

I can tell you can write. The structure and mechanics are fine. I just wonder how good an idea it is to use your ability in stunts like this. I think everyone's better off when they write what they love and know.

All the best,

---dr.M.

 

[TheEarl]

I'm here, what did I miss?

What, no questions? Is this genuinely an experimental, or a proper story?

As always, I'm gonna write comments as I read through, so expect this post to be disjointed, strange and have no apparent thread from one comment to another. Advantage of this is if there's a big gap in the commentary, you can tell where my attention's been distracted by the story.



I don't like flashbacks. I've got a woman and her brother in the first paragraph and all I know is that they've been making love and she doesn't feel guilty. If you're going for an in media reas effect, then you need to divulge some more about the characters and definitely more about the motive in the flashback paragraph. Cause at the moment, I've just got two people in bed for a very skimpy reason and I'm reaching for the back button. However this effect will vary depending on who's reading so feel free to ignore me.


"Before leaving, she automatically inspected herself in the mirror. Nature, she knew, had been kind to her. Granted, Kirk had gotten the blonde hair and blue eyes of their German father, along with his tall, muscular body. But while she might have preferred being a blue eyed, blonde, she'd done okay, getting their Italian mother's dark, thick hair, big, brown eyes, and full figure. Maybe a little too full, she thought, looking at herself sideways in the mirror and studying her belly. But she'd been so depressed and eaten so little since breaking-up with her boyfriend, make that ex-boyfriend, her waist looked almost tiny, especially in comparison to her full hips and matching boobs."

Good descriptive passage. Not sure about the use of the word boobs, sounds kinda childish to me, but that's a Matter Of Opinion. One word of warning: Description after sex is risky. The sex scene on so little physical description has forced the reader to construct their own images of Sue and Kirk and if you contradict them, you risk losing your reader.


"I just couldn't believe I'd spent the night making love to my kid sister. I mean a brother and sister, that's incest, a max no-no, and I told myself I should have known better...I know you're my sister, but you're so in-fucking-credibly sexy. And that got me to thinking about how great last night was and how right it had felt, and I decided that whether it was a sin or not, the really perverted thing would have been saying no when you suggested this."

This seems a bit of a weak reason. Incest is a huge taboo and I don't believe in this reason. I believed in hers, but alcohol and seeing how beautiful she was didn't work for me.


"gently pushed his swelling cock between the soft cheeks of her perfect ass.

Once again the sex was great, and when it ended, she felt energized instead of tired and mellowed-out."

What? Sex scene? Where? Blink and you'll miss it - was it worth the effort?


"Nervous, excited, and bare naked she went over and unlocked the dead bolt, then released the safety chain."

The comma god is angry! I know this is a very pedantic pet peeve, but IMHO this should have gone "Nervous, excited and bare naked, she went over and unlocked the dead bolt, then released the safety chain." Think about where you'd pause if you were speaking this sentence.

Also this seems like too many clauses here. I count 4 and this is unwieldy. Try: "Nervous, excited and bare naked, she went over and unlocked the dead bolt. She released the safety chain and, taking a deep breath..."


The sex scene seems very rushed. I agree with Dr M, you don't seem to be putting anything of yourself into it. To use Weird Harold's phrase, it's just Tab A into Slot B, there's nothing fresh there to make it interesting.

Unfortunately the gaps in this narrative don't show me getting into the story, but me getting slightly bored and skimming bits. It's weird because you have written much better than this, writing that kept me interested all the way, but I'm struggling here. IMHO it's because you're inconsistent. One minute you're realistic with the noises and excess fluids, while still having the woman cumming once every twenty seconds and the man lasting for ages. Some parts are detailed and some parts you skip over, almost as though you're getting bored with writing it. It feels like you didn't really care about the story: Not so much your lovechild, but your unfortunate failure to withdraw in time.


...slam your old Roscoe home...

Interesting. Presuming this is another word for cock, but very esoteric.


"But when the huge cockhead was almost in, Sue groaned softly. He pulled back to ease the pain and then made one hard thrust sending the wide head surging past her stretched anus."

AFAIK, responding to anal resistance with 'one hard thrust' is a very good way to get castrated. But then again, I'm not that experienced in this area.


"Jessie's big, flared cockhead pushing deeper and deeper into her bowels."

Something about the word 'bowels' that destroys the mood for me. Again a MOO, so feel free to ignore mine.



Sorry, I'm tired and I'm finding my attention drifting from reviewing your story. Reading this back over I sound really harsh, which I don't mean to be. This is a technically well written story, I'm just not finding anything that captures me in it. The sex scenes aren't getting me excited and the story isn't working my mind. The blood is at neither end of the body and I think I'd have hit back by now if I was just reading. I'll try and finish reviewing at a later date (can you contain your apathy?).

The Earl

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

To dr_mabeus and TheEarl,

I appreciate you guys plowing through my poor, pitiful prose and then giving me your frank opinions. I'm just sorry it didn't appeal to either one of you.

At last count, the negatives included: plot, characters, sex scenes, dialogue, vocabulary, subject, and organization. While that's a pretty long list, the good news is y'all apparently didn't mind the title.

Here are a few individual notes:

dr_mabeus: In light of your characterization of the dialogue as reading, "unnaturally," I'm going to give it some careful study.

dr_mabeus: For what it's worth, I disagree with your description of the first sex scene as being, " really gratuitous" which Webster's defines as, "2. being w/o apparent reason, cause or justification". IMHO, it's a logical, opening hook. But different strokes for different folks.

TheEarl: When it comes to commas, you're RIGHT if the Associate Press Stylebook is the authority but WRONG it it's Strunk & White or the Chicago Manual of Style. You pays your money, you takes your pick (unless the editor has a preference).

TheEarl: Thanks for pointing out the vocabulary usage. Brit and US slang is often so different. "Boob" was/is a fairly common term among "liberated" young female types beginning in the late '60's while, as you guessed, "Roscoe" is one of the many terms for penis.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Rumple,

Let's take a minute to talk to the author of this story and get his opinions of it. That's something we usually don't do here, but I'd really like to know what you think about it, what you're proud of and what you weren't so happy with, and how well you feel you achieved your goals, whatever they were.

Let me also bow down to the Comma God but disagree with Earl on his interpretation of scripture. I learned that, in a list, every item is separated by a comma. This is to avoid confusion between, say:
...onions, peas, and carrots.
and
...onions, peas and carrots.

So the question is, was she
Nervous, excited, and bare naked
or
Nervous, excited and bare naked

It seems a ngeligible point and I often deliberately violate this convention for the very reason Earl mentioned: for the way you pause when you read it. But my textx say commas between every item.

---dr.M.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Doc,

As I wrote TheEarl, there are conflicting "rules" on the use of commas in a list. The Chicago Manual of Style and the venerable Strunk & White Elements of Style call for the form you and I use in a series of items, which is to have a comma precede conjunctions such as, "and."

"He wanted orange juice, toast, and bacon and eggs."

The Associated Press Stylebook is just the opposite-probably to achieve a cleaner look in printed text. I'm proud of TheEarl for bringing up the point, but unless an editor tells me otherwise, I'm going to stick with Chicago and Strunk.

--

You wrote:
"I'd really like to know what you think about it (my story), what you're proud of and what you weren't so happy with, and how well you feel you achieved your goals, whatever they were.

This is what I wrote in my intro blurb:
"IMHO, one of the great things about Lit is how it lets you take chances and experiment with your writing. "Mix and Match" is an example. I wanted to see how many categories I could fit comfortably into a short story which I hoped would be hot and entertaining, but also decently written with a believable premise and some character developement."

It was an interesting write-and while neither "War and Peace" nor classy erotica, I hoped casual readers would find it a quick, entertaining read. (the figures show about 10000 hits, 35 votes, and a 4.51 rating after nearly two months)

I wish the sex scenes had been "hotter" but I wanted it to be a short story, not a mini-novella with long sections for every category and an elaborate sex scene for each one.

Thanks again for your time, interest, and input.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Well see: so you were successful at reaching your goals, there's no doubt about that. And isn't that the only real test of an artist's success: Did you achieve what you set out to achieve?

It brings up a lot of question about criticism. If you tell us that you weren't out to write "War and Peace", is is fair to judge it against "War and Peace"?

But when and if I have a story here under the knife, I'll probably choose the story I like best. That's what I was really asking you about. Why did you choose this story to be critiqued?

---dr.M.

 

[Singularity]

Mixed and Unmatched

Hello Rumple,

This is my first attempt at serious (no smiles, no fun, erectile behavior, no jokes) criticism here in the SDC. Oh well, maybe a few jokes, along the way.

I bumped over the first two sentences.

A gentle kiss woke Sue. Opening her eyes, she looked up into the handsome, smiling face of her big brother. She grinned and returned his wake-up kiss then wrapped her arms around him and pulled his naked body down on top of hers.

First, a niggly point. I would use “awakened” instead of “woke”. It just sounds better, to me. And there is a desperate need for a comma after “kiss”.

I would add a dollop of commas to the second paragraph, too, in a few places (starting with after ‘he’ in the first sentence). My other thought about the second paragraph is that there is a huge amount of information packed into these few sentences. It is too dense and too rushed, I think. The Vietnam thing and the wreck on the freeway and the needing each other, and the skiing. There is probably a short paragraph of context that the reader needs for each of these topics. I just realized that this info-packed paragraph is only two sentences, too. Too much in too few, without enough meat for any of them. The reader is starting to get overwhelmed now.

On to paragraph three:

Once the flared head was securely in place, he took over and began slowly impaling his little sister, gently sliding the full length of his long, thick shaft in deeper and deeper until it was completely encased inside her hot, tight pussy.

I am sorry, but when I read “encased” here, I think of sausages in sausage casings. Not the idea you want to convey, I know. “Inside” all by itself seems fine.

As I read through the next several paragraphs, I keep getting distracted by punctuation and spelling and phrasing. It is hard to put into words, but the sentences tend to sound “pasted together” rather than flowing together. Dr. Mabeuse also said something similar. It sounds more “flat” rather than arousing and doesn’t really help me create the mental picture I want to see.

The anal sex lasts all of part of one sentence. He pushed into her, and then “Once again the sex was great…” Was it her first time getting fucked in the ass? Had he fantasized about her? Did he come inside her? Did she open up easily for him or was it a struggle? Inquiring (and deviant) minds want to know.

Here is an example of where I see “I need some context and backstory” getting inserted in the middle of something that should be flowing together.

The next few hours would be better than Sue ever dreamed possible. It began with her hurrying to get into bed, and then having to wait impatiently while Jessie gave Kirk the bag, filled with beer, sodas, and whiskey, and then began getting undressed.

He and Kirk had become friends in Viet Nam and they'd stayed in touch since coming back. She'd only met him a few times, but had always been intrigued by his looks, laid-back style, and sense of humor.

By now Sue was so turned on staying in bed was impossible. Getting up, she walked over to where Jessie, having just taken off his jeans, was laying them over the back of a chair.

The references to Vietnam in between Jessie getting undressed and Sue approaching Jessie interrupts what you are trying to build. The refernces to how Kirk knows Jessie should have come a few paragraphs earlier, prior to his knocking on the door.

Now then, there is a big consistency problem with regard to Sue’s ass.

In their excitement, they'd all forgotten that Sue's ass, while admittedly marvelous and inviting, had not been touched that day and was totally unprepared for anal activity of any sort. But with Jessie's first push against her tight butt-hole, Sue remembered.

Kirk had reamed her ass only a few pages earlier.

I read (all right, I’ll be honest – I scanned) the rest of the story. I think the idea of trying to include so many categories of stuff in one story doesn’t work. There isn’t a unifying theme that pulls it together. The intangible thing that literally pulls the reader forward to want to finish the story RIGHT NOW, before I have to do the dishes or take a leak or go out to dinner, isn’t present.

There isn’t much “why” to what happens, or “what happens next” (it ALL happens next), I’m afraid.

I think a tighter focus on one topic or theme is generally better.


Singularity

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Doc,

Why did you choose this story to be critiqued?

In 25 words or less, I picked this story because it had just shown up on the "NEW" list.

"Mix & Match" is my seventh Lit story and I think every one of them has been worked over here on the SDC. I've just had a new one posted, "Nurse Maid," under Loving Wives. I'll sign it up for some assault and battery right after this poor sucker has been beaten to a pulp and replaced by a new story.

--

It brings up a lot of question about criticism. If you tell us that you weren't out to write "War and Peace", is it fair to judge it against "War and Peace"?

IMHO, it's not a question of fairness but one of whether it makes the critique less useful. I don't mean to get into a philosophy of writing, but I'd probably re-word your thought about writing slightly to read: "The biggest test of an artists success is whether he reaches his goals."

When it came to my goal of entertaining readers, I failed with you and TheEarl. When it came to showing some some skill at producing a technically competent piece of prose however, you two said I was a success. I wish I'd managed both, but if I keep getting helping critiques, maybe next time.

RF

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Singularity,

For a newbie, you ain't bad, kid, even if you're another comma freak. I've gotta figure out how to get you and TheEarl together in a duel to the death using sharpened commas at ten paces.

First of all, I appreciate your comments. A lot of them sound similar to those of Doc and TheEarl so you three may be on to something and I will consider what each of you has written.

Just for what it's worth, here are a couple of thoughts.

You said, "First, a niggly point. I would use “awakened” instead of “woke”. It just sounds better, to me. And there is a desperate need for a comma after “kiss”."

I disagree. It's not a case of right or wrong, of course, just a great example of different taste. While you believe "awakened" sounds better, I think it sounds affected. But while I disagree with this particular thought, it's still been helpful because it forced me to re-evaluate my choice of words.

--

Now, about that second paragraph. The gospel of writing according to St. Rumple is as follows, "The only unbreakable rule of commercial writing (that done for profit not a grade) is, THOU SHALT NOT BORE THE READER, and there is only one standard, IS IT EFFECTIVE?"

That said, let me defend that paragraph. IMHO, that it contains only two sentences isn't really important. Whether it was one huge sentence or many small ones, what is important is that the paragraph quickly (and effectively) communicate the backstory. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't-but that had little to do with the lenght of the sentences.

I grant that, as a rule of thumb, shorter sentences are usually prefered to longer ones which can wander and slow the pace. Since I wanted to keep the story short, my challenge was to communicate the information in the backstory AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. I dont' think I did that bad a job. You and Doc and TheEarl think I blew it. Win some. Lose some.

For the benefit of innocent bystanders, here's the paragraph in question.

"They had needed one another: he after coming back from Viet Nam physically sound but emotionally ravaged, she after a devastating break-up with her boyfriend. God, but she was so glad that big wreck on the freeway had kept them from getting through town and that Kirk convinced her they should stop for an early dinner which turned into a long, slightly drunken, sharing of feelings that lead to the realizing they needed one another, not just as sister and brother, but also as man and woman, and their decision to check into this hotel and forget about skiing that weekend."

Singularity, I do thank you for all your time and trouble. I also challenge you to post a story of your own for some SDC third degree. You know the drill, no pain, no gain.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[TheEarl]

RF: I believe it is a difference between English and American grammar. In England it is anathema to the soul to write a comma before an 'and' at the end of a list. So each to their own.

My major problem with your commas was hte lack of one at "bare naked she went over." IMHO there should have been one between naked and she.

Singularity: I am the one true Comma God/Freak. Thou shalt not challenge my authority! .

I think you went for your goals at the expense of the story. The story seemed to revolve around sex, yet there was nothing there. A two line sex scene seems very bare.

Just MO

The Earl

 

[the_bragis]

So the question is, was she
Nervous, excited, and bare naked
or

Nervous, excited and bare naked

Well I would have said, nervous, excited and naked, or nervous, excited, and bare.

Now would you say, carrots, onions, fish and chips; carrots, onions, fish and chips; or carrots, onioins, and fish and chips?

I think it may depends on weather or not you consider excited and bare naked to be 'joined'. There's probably a techinal term for it, but I don't know what it is. Oh, and I could quite possibly be totally wrong too.

Alex

 

[Xodus]

Hiya Rumple
I am rather new to Lit and only have one story up so far, so take this with a grain of salt, please
I tend to agree with most of the others. While the prose was good, I really didn't get into the sex scenes very much.
I think if you had been more descriptive and had more dialog during the sex scenes, I would have liked it a lot more.

 

[Pure]

Hi Rumple,

It was a good read. Generally up to your standards. I can't believe the discussion of commas!

What's good? The characters aren't bad. They have a human side. The friendships have some substance. There's a little unpredictability (in an overall predictable sequence).

The sex seems a little disconnected to the character's feelings; somewhat, as other said, "first we do man on top, then man on botton, then doggy, then double." Kinda like what we call 'pub crawling', trying to hit six places.

It's a bit hard with this complex of characters, but the story could have 'built' more, so that there's peaks for each of the main pairs.

The simplest area for improvements is the few dozen cases where I feel you got lazy:

1) Some examples:

big, powerful body
long, thick shaft
hot, tight pussy.
hot, juicy cunt
eager pussy
massive, powerful climax
tidal waves of passion
wet, soapy skin,
incredible sensations
throbbing pussy

2) Also, why does the woman always seem to come first?

3) Here are a couple of the apparent mistakes/typos:

*a ridged image
*laying on their sides
*and said they're toll for entering

If you do, or have done, a rigorous editing, the thing would end up quite good. I enjoyed it, though I do prefer things a bit kinkier and more unpredictable.


Best regards,

and do not take the other criticisms too hard; there are good points in them to which you should listen, but they are, in many instances, in my opinion, picky, pointless, and incorrect --- or is it picky, pointless and incorrect? Damn I must figure that out!

The Earl, for instance said,
"In England it is anathema to the soul to write a comma before an 'and' at the end of a list. So each to their own. "

Hyperbolic bilge to my soul! Notwithstanding his general competence, in this instance he's far over-reached himelf. Here is the position of R. W. Burchfield in, _The New Fowler's Modern English Usage_; he is the former chief editor of the Oxford English dictionaries (1971-1984), Senior Research Fellow at St Peter's College, Oxford (1979-1990), etc.

"Where more than two words or phrases or groupings ocur together in a sequence, a comma should precede the _and_....this is the so called 'Oxford comma'. Examples:
'an index of social, economic, and religious diversity; ....

The 'Oxford comma' is frequently, but in my view unwisely, omitted by many other publishers." (Burchfield, 1998, p. 162).

Now, see, I'm as caught up in the commanonsense as others!


J.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Pure & Xodus,

Thanks to both of you for the feedback.

Xodus, don't let inexperience or a perceived lack of knowledge keep you from sharing your opinions. If knowledge and experience were required to post, some of us would be professional lurkers.

Pure, some of your itemized points are painful to read but still appreciated. I now turn you over to our self-annointed Comma God, TheEarl.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[TheEarl]

WHO DARES TO CHALLENGE THE COMMA GOD?

That is a slightly out of date account though. Since 1980 or so, the 'Oxford Comma' has not been considered good English. Don't know why it changed. It is of course still good American as they don't really care what we say.

Never seen that quote before though. First time anyone's actually bothered to challenge my authority .

The Earl

Xodus: Experience and wisdom you don't need. That's what we keep Weird Harold around for.

 

[Pure]

Hi Earl,

Well, I'll give you chutzpah!



The Earl said,


WHO DARES TO CHALLENGE THE COMMA GOD?

That is a slightly out of date account though. Since 1980 or so, the 'Oxford Comma' has not been considered good English. Don't know why it changed. It is of course still good American as they don't really care what we say.

Never seen that quote before though. First time anyone's actually bothered to challenge my authority .

You cite no authority for your pronouncement about post 1980.
I don't know of what authority you, in your own person, have, but I'd like to know of books written, or edited, articles or other written published material edited, academic degrees post BA, academic posts, teaching assignments, etc.

I cite the qualifications of my source, in further detail, below. I myself have two master's degrees, and have edited two books, with a further one in process of being published.

I cited the latest [rev. 3rd] ed. of New Fowler's..., 1998, also updated 1996, which has garnered excellent reviews.


"Robert Burchfield, 1923-.. ... was awarded the Rhodes scholarship in 1949. He went on to hold a number of academic posts at Oxford University before becoming chief editor of the Oxford English dictionaries (1971-1984). He was a Senior Research Fellow of St Peter's College Oxford form 1979 to 1990, and is now an Emeritus Fellow of the College. His distinguished lexicographical career has included a number of key publications The Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology, 1996.., A Supplement to the OED 1972-1986; The spoken Word: A BBC Guide, 1981, The English Language, 1985, The New Zealand Pocket Oxford Dictionary, 1986, and Unlocking the English Language, 1989 . He also edited the Cambridge History of the English Language , 1994. ... " from the back flyleaf of The New Fowler's Modern English Usage

Comparing the Harper Dictionary of Contemporary Usage, 1985, by William and Mary Morris,

"There is a convention among careful text and reference book copyeditors called the series or serial comma. These editors feel that the colors of our national flag are red, white, and blue"-- not 'red, white and blue.' If the distinction eludes you, rest assured that you have plenty of company. The comma before the "and" in such a series of adjective modifiers has long been abandoned by newspaper copyeditors, but is still retained by many editors of textbooks and reference books. That's why, when the Morrises [the authors of this book] are writing for newspaper publication, their column is called 'Words, Wit and Wisdom' --without the comma before 'and' But when the are writing for dictionaries or other reference books, they put it in." (p. 123).

In sum, there does not appear to be an 'anathema' in respect of the Brits and the Oxford [series] comma, which indeed would render the label highly odd. Newspaper editors on both sides of the Atlantic do have a clear, strong preference. Books probably fall somewhere in between newspaper and reference books, on the spectrum.

Best regards, salutations, and felicitations,

J.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Okay you two, play nice.

I'm in the (un)enviable position of agreeing with you both. For some reason I cannot begin to fathom, US and UK educators both appear to have gone on an anti-third comma tear after WWII.

The only justification I've ever heard for dropping the third comma is because newstype looks prettier that way. (which probably explains the AP Stylebook's generally anti-comma attitude). However, IMHO, pruning that poor, pilloried, part of punctuation risks non-comma confusion, and since looks have never been my strong suit, I'm onboard the good ship Clarity. toot-toot

RF

 

[the_bragis]

Rumple,

I read this story a while back, and commented on it.

NowI've been thinking about you and your writing ever since this latest posting of yours.

I've read a number of your stories now, and I enjoy them all. You write well. I think possibly where you could improve, and gain a wider appeal, is simply not to try so hard.

You said yourself, this story was 'a challenge'. Rumple, don't set yourself a challenge when you write. Sit down, relax and think about the best sex you have ever had. Think about why it was so damned good, and how it felt, then write. (Oops.....should that have been Sit down, relax, and think...? )

One of my favorite authors on this site can't spell, can't type, can't do much of anything really when it comes to writing, except create some of the hottest steamiest stories around. It's as if he just sits down and bangs away at the keyboard, and doesn't stop until he given you every juicy little detail in his head. I'm not going to embarrass him, by mention his name.

He writes from the heart, almost like he's telling you face to face all about his wild and wicked fantasies. Oh yes, and that's the other thing, he writes about things that he would love to have happen to him in real life. I think perhaps that is his secret, because regardless of his poor editing skills, his stories always rate well.

I wish you well with you future writing.

Have a great a day,

Alex.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Pure,

Please if you must itemize every single little mistake like that, use the private message service next time. While pubic feedback on a story can certainly be very helpful to others, lists like those only serve to embarrass the author.

Especially if you ever happen to be critiquing one of my stories, please don't do it.

Have a great day,

Alex.

 

[Pure]

The_bragis said


Pure,

Please if you must itemize every single little mistake like that,

I did not itemize every single mistake; I listed a little sample, esp. in the first category. There have been far longer lists or sets of corrections posted by others in the past. WSO posted dozens on one story. I'm not sure your wishes are other than your own.


use the private message service next time. While pubic feedback


Keep your eye on the ball.



on a story can certainly be very helpful to others, lists like those only serve to embarrass the author.

I would personally be happy to see typos identified. I hope Rumple is a mature guy, but if he's really uncomfortable I apologize.



Especially if you ever happen to be critiquing one of my stories, please don't do it.

You guys are discussing commas, and tell *me not to be picky??
;-)

I will not seek to embarrass you, Alex. But we are all adults, I think.

Best,

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

But we are all adults, I think.

Speak for yourself, Pure. I may be old (I claimed to be older than dirt in TheEarl's post about age) but I'm neither adult nor do I act mature. So there.

--

Alex, thanks for the advice, but if I write about the best sex I ever had, it'd be eligible for KM's "flash fiction" competition.

RF

 

[the_bragis]

While pubic feedback...

Oops, I guess this one was a real clanger!!

Alex.

 

[TheEarl]

Okay Pure, I'll back down. I have no real evidence, only word from my English teachers. I've been taught by 6 different teachers and all have insisted on no comma.

'Anathema to the soul.' Hyperbole? Well, yes, but I think I'm allowed it. I'm a writer, I'm allowed author's license to exaggerate .

I am only the comma god, because I am usually the only one who notices these kind of things and is pedantic enough to comment on them. You've surpassed me so I now crown you the new Comma God/Geek.

Happy pedantism

The Earl

 

[wildsweetone]

i apologise

please excuse me with a message to Pure,

WSO posted dozens on one story

sorry about that... it was more of an editing than a general feedback basically because i don't know the correct names for the mechanical writing faults i come across. each to his/her own i guess.