“I cannot save you.. I can’t even save myself…”

[EmeraldKitten]

“Save Yourself” ~ Stabbing Westward

Is it human nature that makes us want to ‘fix’ people?
Or does it depend on the person, and some of us are cursed with wanting to help anyone with anything.

Why is that?

It seems like all of my friends have something ‘wrong’ with them. I was the ‘motherly’ one.

Do any of you find yourself in that role?
Like for instance, when we would all go bowling or whatever, I was the one sitting at the table, smoking cigarettes, drinking Diet Coke, and telling them to calm down, quiet down, or behave.


I run into this situation with my dad. I want to ‘fix’ him. I want to ‘make’ him not be a druggie. I want to ‘force’ him to be the father that he should be. To me and to my sister.

I talk to him, I write him letters. I do everything possible to convey how I feel and all that happy horse shit, and it never works.


Am I flawed, as a person for caring? As a daughter for trying?

Or is it just human nature to attempt, fail, and bitch about it?


You can’t make anyone do what they don’t want to.
Why though, do we still try?


Am I alone here, or does everyone have some sort of the same experience?



Just wondering.

 

[McKenna]

You're definitely not alone.

You said you want to "force" your father to be the type of father he should be. I sympathize with this feeling. For years I've wanted my parents -my mother in particular- to be different. I needed/wanted her to be the nurturing, motherly type; I wanted her to stop being selfish; I've needed her to offer validation on my accomplishments. The hardest lesson I've had to learn (and I'm still learning) is that I have to let go my expectations of her. She is incapable of fulfilling that role for me of "nurturer" or "mother" in anything but the barest sense of the word.

I don't know, maybe that isn't quite the same thing as you're talking about. I think I've had to learn over the years that it's just not my job to "fix" anyone but myself. That and I can't keep holding on to false hope that someone will miraculously change because he/she associates with me and I've somehow provoked this change of heart.

I think maybe what I'm suggesting here is that you arent flawed, but holding out hope that your dad will change is a flawed idea; it just isn't going to happen unless he's the one to do it. I think the hardest thing to do in life is accept something like that and move on. It took me years to do that with my mom, and still, still I catch myself on occasion falling back into old patterns of thought and behavior where I want her to be more than what she is.

I'm not saying you should abandon your dad, not at all. I'm suggesting you abandon the idea that you can fix him. Stop causing yourself heartache by holding on to that false hope. Just let it go.

Hang in there, it's not an easy road.

 

[Boxlicker101]

“Save Yourself” ~ Stabbing Westward

Is it human nature that makes us want to ‘fix’ people?
Or does it depend on the person, and some of us are cursed with wanting to help anyone with anything.

Why is that?

It seems like all of my friends have something ‘wrong’ with them. I was the ‘motherly’ one.

Do any of you find yourself in that role?
Like for instance, when we would all go bowling or whatever, I was the one sitting at the table, smoking cigarettes, drinking Diet Coke, and telling them to calm down, quiet down, or behave.


I run into this situation with my dad. I want to ‘fix’ him. I want to ‘make’ him not be a druggie. I want to ‘force’ him to be the father that he should be. To me and to my sister.

I talk to him, I write him letters. I do everything possible to convey how I feel and all that happy horse shit, and it never works.


Am I flawed, as a person for caring? As a daughter for trying?

Or is it just human nature to attempt, fail, and bitch about it?


You can’t make anyone do what they don’t want to.
Why though, do we still try?


Am I alone here, or does everyone have some sort of the same experience?



Just wondering.

I have never tried to change anybody and I resent it when people try to change me, unless I have asked them to do so.

By the way, has anybody ever tried to get you to stop smoking?

 

[wishfulthinking]

This is a tough one.

You could be accused of trying to force your expectations on people. A sort of "I love you but you don't reach my standards of how you should behave". I think you need to take the moral judgment out of it, and just be there when your friends need you and offer your support. On the other hand, don't let them take advantage of your caring nature. Friendship is about give and take and sharing the ups and downs.

You can't change your dad, and you will only get frustrated [among other things] if you keep trying to, and I think you've realised this. He has to take the steps to overcome his addiction. No one else can do it for him. You may only push him away - if he doesn't think he measures up in your eyes, why try?

But bless your warm caring heart

 

[English Lady]

Hey Kitten I know how you feel, I do. I'd like to fix things in a few of the people in my family, but I've learnt to accept the way they are. I still want them to change sometimes though.

I am the morthering type though, I hate to see anyone upset or angry or hurting, I will do anything to right the situation. I'm always the sensible one, head screwed on being practical. It's just how I am


Use the positives of your mothering side, your caring and kindness, it will be appreiciated -even if you don't think it is.

 

[elsol]

I've had mostly females friends... and I don't try to fix.

I don't even help unless they can understand the following statement.

"An asshole by definition only produces shit..."

I'm not qualified to fix anyone who's problem are something other than NOT understanding what I mean by that.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[SonOfAGhost]

helping = good
fixing = bad
Not only will unwanted meddling be frustrating for you but you'll annoy the person with the problem and even if they do want help from someone in the future it won't be you. If you're close, tell them you're concerned, and then drop the subject unless they bring it up.

 

[impressive]

Wow, timely thread. Have been discussing such a good bit lately.

I'm not really a "fixer" unless asked to become involved. Otherwise, I pretty much mind my own business & trust people to solve their own problems (as I want them to trust me).

But I am, I've learned over the years, a confidant and amateur psychotherapist. *grin* People tend to open up & tell me things rather quickly. Guess I have that tell-me-about-your-childhood face. At times it can be a burden (like with a total stranger in the grocery strore checkout), but mostly I like getting to know what makes folks tick -- and helping when I invited.

 

[lil_elvis]

Kitten,

Had some similar experiences (my brother in law is an alcoholic). Despite what we (my wife & I, her other bother and his wife) have tried - paying for rehab and councelling - nothing has changed. Nothing will unless that person wants to and often our efforts are resented and he/she becomes more unwilling to change.

Change must come from within, we cannot force it upon others.

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Good morning.

I'm not awake enough, and I don't have enough time to make a long involved post, but I'll do that when i get home from work.


Thanks for replying you guys.... this is going to be interesting.

(As it usually is. )


Keep 'em comin'!

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Trying to turn someone into what you want them to be is probably futile and bad.

Trying to help them become what they want to be is probably a lot better. Most people want to be good people. It's just that they often want other things more than they want to be good.

 

[SeaCat]

“Save Yourself” ~ Stabbing Westward

Is it human nature that makes us want to ‘fix’ people?
Or does it depend on the person, and some of us are cursed with wanting to help anyone with anything.

Why is that?

It seems like all of my friends have something ‘wrong’ with them. I was the ‘motherly’ one.

Do any of you find yourself in that role?
Like for instance, when we would all go bowling or whatever, I was the one sitting at the table, smoking cigarettes, drinking Diet Coke, and telling them to calm down, quiet down, or behave.


I run into this situation with my dad. I want to ‘fix’ him. I want to ‘make’ him not be a druggie. I want to ‘force’ him to be the father that he should be. To me and to my sister.

I talk to him, I write him letters. I do everything possible to convey how I feel and all that happy horse shit, and it never works.


Am I flawed, as a person for caring? As a daughter for trying?

Or is it just human nature to attempt, fail, and bitch about it?


You can’t make anyone do what they don’t want to.
Why though, do we still try?


Am I alone here, or does everyone have some sort of the same experience?



Just wondering.

Emerald,

Welcome to humanity.
We are expected to help others even while we are reviled for helping those who need help. There are several things you need to realize if you are to remain sane. (Or some semblance of this.)

A) Most people don't want to change. They are happy the way they are even if they are hurting other people.

B) Most people will resent you trying to change them.

C) You can't change a person unless they want to change.

D) No one, including yourself is perfect.

E) If you think you're perfect, you aren't.

F) Helping others is a noble cause. You just have to remember that you are going to get a lot of grief. They are going to shit and piss upon you and you are expected to take it with a smile.

G) If you think people are going to thank you for helping them you are sadly mistaken.

H) If after all of this, you still try to help other people, then you are someone I want to meet and interact with.

Cat

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Hello everyone.

Thank you all for taking the time to post.

My original post wasn’t really about my friends. I was pissed about two things my dad had done in the past week, and I vented slightly.

I’ll be honest~ if it’s some piddly shit thing my friends do, I’m not gonna nag them.
I guess my main focus was drug use.

My friends that did drugs for shits and giggles… I left them behind a few years ago. When it became more than a recreational game, I decided to sit it out.
Partially because I knew that none of them had any idea what they were doing, and what they could possibly become.
Partly because I knew /know that I have an addictive personality, and that I’d be more than tempted eventually.

Basically, I don’t try to ‘fix’ people unless they're endangering themselves or other people.
I do try and help, but friends-wise I don’t totally stress myself out about it.

My dad though, it’s a different story.

A man that takes his 10 year old daughter on a drug buy, is not a father.
A man that tricks his 20 year old daughter into driving him to a drug buy, is not a father.
A man that threatens his wife if she doesn’t cough up $850 for him to pay people off, is not a husband.
He isn’t even a man.

These are the reason I want to fix him.
Not because I think it’ll be fun, but because he’s in too deep, and can’t get out.

Still, he has about eight hands reaching to him, and he bats them all away.
His sister is just about done, his dad is just about done, his wife is done, and I’m the only one that’s teetering on the edge.
I’m not going to force anything on him because I cannot do it. But if he would say he was going to straighten up, I’d be backing him up 2000%.

For now, I have no expectations, and I have no hopes.


Right this very second, I’m instant messaging with him, and he’s stoned.


I made a comment about looking up some concert I want to go to, and he said, “How ya gonna do that? It takes bucks!”
Well, no shit. I’m aware of that.
I replied that I’d roll quarters and not drink.

He has the gall to say to me, “Well, you can’t do it all and get drunk at the same time ya know.”

He is a failure, and he still has the nerve to bring up me drinking.
I do not pawn things for money for alcohol.
I do not put beer in my coffee cup instead of coffee.
I do not get money from anyone, saying I need it for gas, food, or clay for my fucking daughter, and then blow it on Heroin.

As we speak, I’m letting him have it for his shitty comments. I’ve gone the nice route, I’ve gone the sweet, considerate, caring, loving route. I’m done.

It’s bullshit, and even if I cant change or fix him, he sure as hell is gonna catch a piece of my mind.

 

[SeaCat]

Emerald Kitten,

Read my post above.
If after reading it you still think it's worth your while to rip him a new asshole, go for it. Wallow in it. (I refuse to judge either him or you.) The thing you have to remember is, when all is said and done, you are the person you have to sleep with tonight.

If you sleep well tonight knowing you tried, and tomorrow you still want to try even though he has told you to go fuck youself. (Or worse, and yes I have heard much worse.) Then I will want to truly talk with you. You will have shown that you are the kind of person who is worth knowing. You are one of the few who truly give a shit.

Remember, you have to be able to sleep with yourself at night. That is the best criterion for anything you do.

Cat

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Emerald Kitten,

Read my post above.
If after reading it you still think it's worth your while to rip him a new asshole, go for it. Wallow in it. (I refuse to judge either him or you.) The thing you have to remember is, when all is said and done, you are the person you have to sleep with tonight.

If you sleep well tonight knowing you tried, and tomorrow you still want to try even though he has told you to go fuck youself. (Or worse, and yes I have heard much worse.) Then I will want to truly talk with you. You will have shown that you are the kind of person who is worth knowing. You are one of the few who truly give a shit.

Remember, you have to be able to sleep with yourself at night. That is the best criterion for anything you do.

Cat

I did read your post.

And I just feel better about myself after I rip him.
I will sleep with myself just fine, aside from the fact that I'm pissed at him, and at myself for letting him affect me that way.

A. I know
B. I know
C. I know
D. You're right
E. I know I'm not
F. I've been shit upon, pissed upon, verbally 'abused' basically. I take it. I deal.
G. I know they won't thank me. Until later, when they've realized I'm right, LOL.
H. After all of it, I do try. But, frustration kicks in, and I go off. Like I just did at my dad.

Like I said, I don't interfere too much with the friends I have now. I have no reason to... But him.... wow. I can't help it, lol.

He hasn't replied to me for nearly 40 minutes now, and he probably won't.
Because he knows I'm right, and he's blowing smoke up his own ass.


I react so strongly because I do care. That too pisses me off, lol.

*Sigh*
I can't win for losin' when it comes to him.

I will get over being angry, and I'll care again, until he does the next asshole thing.
Then I'll get over that, and care again. Because I have to. Because it's how I am.
I cannot write him off. I can't.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Kitten, when I read your first post, I thought it was somebody you know who has an annoying habit and you wanted to change it. I didn't realize it was as serious as you now say it is, or I wouldn't have been so brusque.

If this guy who claimes to be your father is taking his ten year old daughter with him while he is buying drugs, he is definitely putting her in danger and you might consider doing something about that. And I don't mean offering to stay with the child while he is gone because that would just make you an enabler. I don't know what that would be but there are social agencies that might do something but I don't know how trustworthy they are. You could also have the police tail him and bust his connection but that could have negative consequences also. Nagging, if it hasn't changed him yet, never will, but getting arrested might.

 

[SeaCat]

I did read your post.

And I just feel better about myself after I rip him.
I will sleep with myself just fine, aside from the fact that I'm pissed at him, and at myself for letting him affect me that way.

A. I know
B. I know
C. I know
D. You're right
E. I know I'm not
F. I've been shit upon, pissed upon, verbally 'abused' basically. I take it. I deal.
G. I know they won't thank me. Until later, when they've realized I'm right, LOL.
H. After all of it, I do try. But, frustration kicks in, and I go off. Like I just did at my dad.

Like I said, I don't interfere too much with the friends I have now. I have no reason to... But him.... wow. I can't help it, lol.

He hasn't replied to me for nearly 40 minutes now, and he probably won't.
Because he knows I'm right, and he's blowing smoke up his own ass.


I react so strongly because I do care. That too pisses me off, lol.

*Sigh*
I can't win for losin' when it comes to him.

I will get over being angry, and I'll care again, until he does the next asshole thing.
Then I'll get over that, and care again. Because I have to. Because it's how I am.
I cannot write him off. I can't.

Okay Emerald Kitten,

You have just shown me that you are the type of person I like dealing with. Why? Because you give a shit. Now, at the risk of getting you pissed off and/or alienating you let me give you two little pieces of advice. (If you think about these then decide you still want to dislike me it's worth it. At least you thought about it.)

A) You can't save him. He has to save himself. Don't try to save him until he decides he wants to be saved. It will only hurt you.

B) Save yourself. While it sounds selfish on the surface it is actually a very good piece of advice. If you don't take care of yourself you can't help anyone else.

Cat

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Kitten, when I read your first post, I thought it was somebody you know who has an annoying habit and you wanted to change it. I didn't realize it was as serious as you now say it is, or I wouldn't have been so brusque.

If this guy who claimes to be your father is taking his ten year old daughter with him while he is buying drugs, he is definitely putting her in danger and you might consider doing something about that. And I don't mean offering to stay with the child while he is gone because that would just make you an enabler. I don't know what that would be but there are social agencies that might do something but I don't know how trustworthy they are. You could also have the police tail him and bust his connection but that could have negative consequences also. Nagging, if it hasn't changed him yet, never will, but getting arrested might.

I figured as much... and figured that might be what most people thought.
That's why I decided to clarify.

I'm calm now. He just really gets me fired up.

He and my stepmom are now divorced, my sister lives with my stepmom, and he's a failure of a father.
He doesn't make a concious effort to see her or do anything with her.
I'ts all about him.

I've talked to the police here in town, and they say that the way the system works in the count my dad lives in, is bullshit.

The one cop offered to wire me, and get me to get my dad to talk about his drugs and his dealers and all that, but the last thing I want is a pissed of drug dealer knockin at my door.
There have beebn other options, but they just don't seem to work.

Besides, when he got busted for domestic violence, he had Heroin in his pocket, and the possession charges were dropped.
I have no faith in the system.


And he's been in jail before. More than a handful of times.
He doesn't get it. It doesn't sink in.

I'm about to beat some sense into him, lol.

Anyhow, thanks for posting again. It meant a lot.

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Okay Emerald Kitten,

You have just shown me that you are the type of person I like dealing with. Why? Because you give a shit. Now, at the risk of getting you pissed off and/or alienating you let me give you two little pieces of advice. (If you think about these then decide you still want to dislike me it's worth it. At least you thought about it.)

A) You can't save him. He has to save himself. Don't try to save him until he decides he wants to be saved. It will only hurt you.

B) Save yourself. While it sounds selfish on the surface it is actually a very good piece of advice. If you don't take care of yourself you can't help anyone else.

Cat

I do give a shit. And sometimes that pisses me off, lol.

You haven't pissed me off or alienated me. I don't dislike you.
Y aknow why?

A. You're right. I know this. I just don't want to admit it to myself. I've spent a few years getting hurt because I believed in my ability to make him see the light.
Finally it clicked that no, I don't have absolute power, and no, I'm not going to make him be what I think he should me.
I can only hope.

B. You're right again. Thats why in the past several months I've stopped focusing on that, and focusing on me. It's much more pleasant. I like myself a lot more than I like him.

You're right on both accounts, and you're a genius to boot!



(Okay, I've gotten over my pissed off-ness. For the most part anyway. )

 

[cantdog]

Cat seems to know, Em. It's the best he can do at this distance from the details of the problem. He's not wrong. Be strong.