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Who has the Power?

Ebonyfire

Ebonyfire

Ball Stretcher
Joined
Jan 6, 2002
Posts
11,729
Here is a topic that has gone around the block once or twice. I think it is worth a second look.

It has been posted here and in other venues that the submissive has all of the power. It as also been posted here and other places that the Dominant has all the power.

I just read an article in the Backroom that said this:

The giver of submission has the power.
The receiver of submission has the power.


That resonated in Me. I believe that both the submissive and the dominant are powerful beings.

It is not a matter of who has the most power.

It is more a matter of a power exchange. The exchange of powere between submissive and dominant is very powerful, and is the foundation of a successful D/s relationship.

Any thoughts?
 
I agree with that, for the most part. Submissives hold a different kind of power than the Dominants. For practical purposes, though, if the Dominant doesn't hold the right to exercise the power on behalf of the sub, there is no D/s going on.
 
Power transcends both the sub and the Dom. The ocean is no more important than the beach. Without the ocean all you have is desert. Without the beach, you don't have a reason for girls to wear bikinis.
 
Johnny Mayberry said:
I agree with that, for the most part. Submissives hold a different kind of power than the Dominants. For practical purposes, though, if the Dominant doesn't hold the right to exercise the power on behalf of the sub, there is no D/s going on.
Click to expand...

Is there anyway to describe the differences in their power?
 
WriterDom said:
Power transcends both the sub and the Dom. The ocean is no more important than the beach. Without the ocean all you have is desert. Without the beach, you don't have a reason for girls to wear bikinis.
Click to expand...

Thanks, WD. I really like the part "the ocean is no more important than the beach."

As for the bikinis, well I will defer to Your expertise in that matter.
 
I think in a new relationship the sub has the power. The dom doesn't know a sub's limits and it is up to the sub to express them and insist on them. In a long term relationship (once you start to get into each others heads) the lines start to get fuzzy because some subs like to have their limits pushed and want a dom to push them. This is where it becomes a power exchange. Trust. Giving up your power to someone else in hopes that they will take you to a place you have not been before with the knowledge you may not end up in the place you expected or may not like. At this point the power is in the dom's hands.
 
Daedalus77 said:
I think in a new relationship the sub has the power. The dom doesn't know a sub's limits and it is up to the sub to express them and insist on them. In a long term relationship (once you start to get into each others heads) the lines start to get fuzzy because some subs like to have their limits pushed and want a dom to push them. This is where it becomes a power exchange. Trust. Giving up your power to someone else in hopes that they will take you to a place you have not been before with the knowledge you may not end up in the place you expected or may not like. At this point the power is in the dom's hands.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your thoughts on this subject.
 
Tis give and take as all things in life, without the sub handing her power to the dom he is helpless, without him seizing that power she is alone. So without one you are left with a self abuser :D
 
Bachlum Chaam said:
Tis give and take as all things in life, without the sub handing her power to the dom he is helpless, without him seizing that power she is alone. So without one you are left with a self abuser :D
Click to expand...


Thanks for adding your perspective!
 
Gave my power away to Snooze. He's taking good care of it.:cool:
 
I Think

That the power is available to both parties just as Writerdom says so well.
If the relationship is to grow and flourish trust and understanding of desires and needs must be establised The power may and hopefully will oscillate as the dominant moves the submissive to new experinces and likewise as the submissive finds new respones and offers feedback on how the experience unfolded. A dominant feels very powerful when a submissive shows appreciation and positve feedback on how the relationship or experience is working. The submissive has the power here but passes it to the dominant. And of course vica versa.

To me it is a growing thing, to use a metaphor
An acorn is not an Oak until.......

H
 
I think holding power over another is a dynamic that undergoes continual evolution, regardless of which stage the relationship is in. I may be wrong, but I'm going to guess that even the most experienced submissives/ slaves continue to hand over power as they grow within their respective relationships.
 
I am finding all the viewpoints here very interesting. Thanks for the thread Eb. My viewpoint? In the life I lead, He holds all the power and gives it back to me in certain ways; for example, I have autonomy, because He allows it for His convenience. What power I do receive from Him, is at His convenience, and on His terms. He trusts in me not to abuse that power, and I release it to Him at a word. Power exchange.

We haven't talked much about that old "the sub can walk out any old time" BS. I'm surprised no-one's brought it up. Sure...the sub can walk out anytime--a supposed display of all her so-called power. Yeah, she's powerful alright--and DOMLESS. I never got the whole point of that exercise. Exercise all your power in a D/s relationship and end up OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP. That is just plain DUMB.

~anelize
 
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AnelizeDarkEyes said:
I am finding all the viewpoints here very interesting. Thanks for the thread Eb. My viewpoint? In the life I lead, He holds all the power and gives it back to me in certain ways; for example, I have autonomy, because He allows it for His convenience. What power I do receive from Him, is at His convenience, and on His terms. He trusts in me not to abuse that power, and I release it to Him at a word. Power exchange.

We haven't talked much about that old "the sub can walk out any old time" BS. I'm surprised no-one's brought it up. Sure...the sub can walk out anytime--a supposed display of all her so-called power. Yeah, she's powerful alright--a DOMLESS. I never got the whole point of that exercise. Exercise all your power in a D/s relationship and end up OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP. That is just plain DUMB.

~anelize
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you said. I was in a short and sweet posting mood earlier. The truth is, I do have some autonomy and probably always will. However, He gets the power whenever He wants it. It doesn't even take a word all the time. Sometimes, all it takes is "the look".
 
I dislike this idea that power is this finite resource that someone hands over like they do their last 20 bucks. And then they have none.

I don't equate power and autonomy, necessarily. Some of the most powerful and influential people in time have viewed themselves as but humble servants if push came to shove.

I want powerful subs. Extraordinarily powerful and *em* powered people. Willing to serve and obey.

That willingness doesn't put a stop on power, nor should it.
 
Arden said:
I think holding power over another is a dynamic that undergoes continual evolution, regardless of which stage the relationship is in. I may be wrong, but I'm going to guess that even the most experienced submissives/ slaves continue to hand over power as they grow within their respective relationships.
Click to expand...

I would hope that a power exchange is a process that changes and evolves over time. Thanks, Arden.
 
AnelizeDarkEyes said:
I am finding all the viewpoints here very interesting. Thanks for the thread Eb. My viewpoint? In the life I lead, He holds all the power and gives it back to me in certain ways; for example, I have autonomy, because He allows it for His convenience. What power I do receive from Him, is at His convenience, and on His terms. He trusts in me not to abuse that power, and I release it to Him at a word. Power exchange.

We haven't talked much about that old "the sub can walk out any old time" BS. I'm surprised no-one's brought it up. Sure...the sub can walk out anytime--a supposed display of all her so-called power. Yeah, she's powerful alright--and DOMLESS. I never got the whole point of that exercise. Exercise all your power in a D/s relationship and end up OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP. That is just plain DUMB.

~anelize
Click to expand...

Thanks anelize.
 
Netzach said:
I dislike this idea that power is this finite resource that someone hands over like they do their last 20 bucks. And then they have none.

I don't equate power and autonomy, necessarily. Some of the most powerful and influential people in time have viewed themselves as but humble servants if push came to shove.

I want powerful subs. Extraordinarily powerful and *em* powered people. Willing to serve and obey.

That willingness doesn't put a stop on power, nor should it.
Click to expand...


I have to say that I totally agree with you here.

I think when we discuss power on this forum, people equate power with autonomy.

All of My subs are autonomous. It is ncessary because we do not live together, and I feel very strongly about subs using what God gave them!

Thanks, Netzach.
 
Netzach said,

I dislike this idea that power is this finite resource that someone hands over like they do their last 20 bucks. And then they have none.

I don't equate power and autonomy, necessarily. Some of the most powerful and influential people in time have viewed themselves as but humble servants if push came to shove.

I want powerful subs. Extraordinarily powerful and *em* powered people. Willing to serve and obey.

That willingness doesn't put a stop on power, nor should it.

The 'powerful' but humble servant or sub has what I'd call strength or force of personality; deciding on something, they bring tremendous will and persistence to bear upon it. It might be called 'inner power' or 'inner resources'. I agree that's compatible with autonomy, maybe a part of it.

Outward power, i.e., over another, requires that one person's desires are (or will be) imposed on the other to some degree, at least at critical points. No imposition, no 'power over' or domination. If you want to practice shining some shoes and I tell you to shine mine, and you do, I've excercized no power over you.

P: Many bdsm situtations then have no exercise of power; no more than a play with a king and a servant has exercize of power over.

P: I submit each situation has to be looked at, first to see if 'power over' is exercized, and then, if so, by whom and to what degree.

One tells 'by whom' by seeing, for conflict cases, whose desire/will routinely prevails. If there's no such pattern, power is shared, there is no pattern of one (always the same one) having power over the other.

{Added: in the absence of a pattern, there is the possibility, as one poster at least has said, of power as it were moving back and forth between parties; not unlike an even wrestling match.}
 
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i think it tough to imagine having power when you are out there struggling in space and depend on the Dominant for even a walk to the bathroom.

i'll admit there were times when i felt i had absolutely no power and that was exquisitely right. It popped my calm button.

On the other hand, i relished in my feelings of independent thought. It is the small part of you that you can't give away and it was a necessity in order to maintain my sense of self. To me, the real power resides in venturing down the D/s path period. You empower yourself when going against the grain. Heady.

lara

Edited to add: Interesting thread idea Ebony. Thank You.

l.
 
Pure, yes, I know your feelings on this one.

My feelings are that *authenticity* might be overrated. I don't especially care if I *made* the bootblack lick my boots, more that I got very wet when he did. More that he's good at his craft and I'm good at mine.

If I want to feel like I can order someone around with impunity I can always have children or buy a dog. It's not the be all and end all.

There's Hamlet at the RSC, and there's Tony's live bait and dinner theater, for the theater analogy.
 
/My feelings are that *authenticity* might be overrated. I don't especially care if I *made* the bootblack lick my boots, more that I got very wet when he did. More that he's good at his craft and I'm good at mine. /

But consider this: You're standing there, in a crowd, waiting for the bus, many things for the day in mind and you notice a slobbering fellow has crawled up and is about to lick your boots.

Is there wetness? I think not, in that, if he grabs your ankle and started licking, *he's* taken power over you, and I bet that feels a little different.

I agree there's turn on, in cooperation, as in many kinks. If you want to be fucked from behind and I want to do that to you, it might be hot indeed if you're good at your craft and I'm good at mine. BUT, in saying 'bend over' i'm merely clueing you as to timing, *not exercizing or exhibiting power over you. Leaving aside 'inner power', there's no power on the scene.
 
i agree also with everyone on this subject. when He and i talk, He always gives me a chance to speak my mind. so i think that maybe there is a equal ratio of power...or maybe it depends on the relationship. i also agree with WriterDom that without the ocean there is no beach. that is a good way of putting it:)
 
Hi Anelize,

//We haven't talked much about that old "the sub can walk out any old time" BS. I'm surprised no-one's brought it up. Sure...the sub can walk out anytime--a supposed display of all her so-called power. Yeah, she's powerful alright--and DOMLESS. I never got the whole point of that exercise. Exercise all your power in a D/s relationship and end up OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP. That is just plain DUMB.//

If I may comment on the 'old' statement. Yes, I think your criticism is valid, in one way. If there's power--in the hands of one person-- in ending some relationship with another, it's the power to walk away and do OK, or at least survive.

So, following your point, it's 'dumb' to say a 10 year old kid has 'power' in a dispute with her parents, because she can walk out. Her parents have power over her to the extent that leaving is not possible. If, however, she has a secret friend in Tibet who can pick her up and take her there, upon getting a cellphone call, then she does have some power in the possibility of leaving.

:rose:
 
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