hey KillerMuffin- or anyone who might know-?

I ran across a story in the non-consent section that really turned my stomach. What exactly are the requirements that would put something out of non-consent and into "extreme"?

This particular story is called "A Cunt in An SUV" and reads like it was written by a twisted piece of shit indeed.

Does a depiction of repeatedly punching, kicking and brutalizing a woman until her teeth are knocked out and their face swells up and then raping her qualify as "extreme" enough to get him banished?

Or am I being overly sensitive?

It's really hard to draw a line here. People whine and bitch about not getting there stories posted. Favorite complaint: so and so got theirs posted!!!

The line was drawn as objectively as possible. The victim must enjoy the experience. She orgasmed.

Good grief!

MlledeLaPlumeBleu said:

Does a depiction of repeatedly punching, kicking and brutalizing a woman until her teeth are knocked out and their face swells up and then raping her qualify as "extreme" enough to get him banished?

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Dear Mlle,
That sounds like a real beauty of a story. Do some people actually find that sort of thing to be erotic? Urggghhhhh I guess I've led a sheltered life.
MG

Re: Good grief!

MathGirl said:

Dear Mlle,
That sounds like a real beauty of a story. Do some people actually find that sort of thing to be erotic? Urggghhhhh I guess I've led a sheltered life.
MG

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Honestly? I have preferred some (not many) Extreme stories over the majority of the NC on Lit. Depends on how well-written it is. This pushes the line a little for me and, admittedly not having read it, there sounds like there is too much wrong to be worthwhile...but also, to me, one of those "wrong" things is that the female has an orgasm. That spoils it for me as much as the endless brutality.

There was one story I reported the other day in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section that went horribly awry at the end, incorporating as non-consensual of a rape as possible, faux-bestiality (shapeshifting) and ending in the sex-induced-death of the victim. But I bet the story would still be there if she had come before she died.

An orgasm has been called the "Little Death,"

However actual brutality to women should never be the main content of any erotic story. It just gives certain idiots a reason in their heads to do something like that. Howsomever much I feel about this personally, the real problem is just how much this kind of thing is still accepted in our society. And with a writer, the truth must always prevail in their work. How much I detest snuff, and brutality it still exists out there. But I do know this. No woman could ever have an orgasm induced death by means of brutality, any more than a man could. The little death of orgasm prescribes to the assumption that there is more life afterwards to deal with.

DS

Re: Re: Good grief!

Quint said:

There was one story I reported the other day in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section that went horribly awry at the end, incorporating as non-consensual of a rape as possible, faux-bestiality (shapeshifting) and ending in the sex-induced-death of the victim. But I bet the story would still be there if she had come before she died.

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That sounds like something inspired by a certain genre of anime--which I have always avoided like sin and death. No, I do not have a clue why that sort of thing is considered erotic or entertaining by anyone. But it's a common theme in Japanese movies and comics, believe it or not. There is an entire genre of live-action "rape movies", filled with sexual violence, torture and murder to an extent almost incredible to the average American. Even a very law-abiding culture (though an extremely macho one with no tradition of respect for women) can indulge in stuff like this on a routine basis. Apparently the enjoyment factor isn't confined to outright psychos.

MM

Cool. I understand the inherent difficulties in pleasing the masses. So I'm not questioning the decision, just stating my opinion. Not my decision- it's their site. Disclaimer duly made.

However, in my opinion the "orgasm" is clearly included for the delusional author's gratification and not for the [fictional] gratification of the female character. Psycho sexual rapists (aspiring or otherwise) often exhibit that dichotomy in fantasy- i.e. "You're terrified, I'm controlling you, You're nothing," wanting to see their victims scream in pain and anguish, and also the standard male response of reassured virility ["but I can still make 'em cum"]. That's what made this story particularly disturbing to me.

Yeah, the orgasm, ex post facto. It's a little insulting to think that anyone can just tack on a cliff notes description of a little highly improbable myotonia. It's like glueing googly eyes and yarn on a turd and telling some kid "Hey, look! It's a doll!"

On a personal level, I think three paltry departure sentences indicating a spontaneous "orgasm" don't go a long way in blunting the extremity, or the intent, when 97 percent of the story is passages like this fine ending. Everyone pay attention now, because closing a story is the hardest part of writing- you might pick up some tips!


>>>>
I laughed, then drove to downtown Chicago. While we were driving, I looked at Beth. She had two black eyes, a broken nose with dried blood around it, her upper lip was swollen and cut and she had bite marks all over her breasts and belly. Then, last but not least, my cum was dripping out of her cunt and blood was dripping out of her asshole.

I smiled and said aloud, "What a stupid cunt!"

We got downtown and I said, "Hey, look what time it is, Beth. It's three-thirty. I guess it's time to drop you off!" I smiled at her and said, "You know, Beth, women love SUVs because they are big and make them feel safe." I laughed and said, "It also makes them rude and makes them feel like they own the fucking road."

I slammed on the breaks. We were on the corner of Wabash and Randolph Streets. I opened the door and kicked her ass out.

Before I closed the door I asked Beth, "So, do you feel safe now, cunt?"

I laughed and closed the door, flooring it out of there. When I looked in my rear view mirror all I could see was Beth in a ball in the middle of the street, crying as hundreds of people came over to her.

As I drove off, I thought to myself, 'Hey, this is a comfortable ride. I may have to get one of these.'>>>>



No doubt, she enjoyed it.

To read her enjoying the rest of it, as well as that earth-shaking orgasm:
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=85509]
A Cunt in a SUV[/URL]

Also recommended on this gentleman's author page- the heartfelt poetry of a self-pitying psychopath, wherin he tells all the pretty girls in the world that they're to blame for the monster he's become, because they never gave him the time of day, just because he was unattractive. No word yet on whether he ever considered dating within his league.

sorry for the vitriole,

Mlle

Re: Re: Re: Good grief!

Madame Manga said:

That sounds like something inspired by a certain genre of anime--which I have always avoided like sin and death. No, I do not have a clue why that sort of thing is considered erotic or entertaining by anyone. But it's a common theme in Japanese movies and comics, believe it or not. There is an entire genre of live-action "rape movies", filled with sexual violence, torture and murder to an extent almost incredible to the average American. Even a very law-abiding culture (though an extremely macho one with no tradition of respect for women) can indulge in stuff like this on a routine basis. Apparently the enjoyment factor isn't confined to outright psychos.

MM

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Not to quibble (oh, who am I kidding?), I didn't say it wasn't erotic. I reported it because it was inappropriate for this site and belonged with its brethren in Extreme. Eroticism is far too subjective to be a guideline.

Going to throw up

MLPB-

I really wish I hadn't read that excerpt. It makes me feel dirty to post at a site that has it posted.

Feeding this sickness is scary.

b

Re: Going to throw up

bridgetkeeney said:

MLPB-

I really wish I hadn't read that excerpt. It makes me feel dirty to post at a site that has it posted.

Feeding this sickness is scary.

b

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Dear Bridget,
Amen.
MG

Bridget-

I think you're exactly right- but I'm not clear on who is doing the feeding. Are you implying me? Because I complained about it instead of ignoring it?

Mlle


Oh, wait- I re-read your post; I think I was hasty. If you meant that the site is feeding the sickness by posting this man's hate filled screed, then yes, I couldn't agree more. It crosses the line.

no, no, never, never

MlledeLaPlumeBleu said:

Bridget-

I think you're exactly right- but I'm not clear on who is doing the feeding. Are you implying me? Because I complained about it instead of ignoring it?

Mlle

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No, no, never, dear.

I appreciate you bringing it to our collective attention. I am planning on PM'ing Laurel with my queasiness.

I hope that those who click through to the story only vote and do not send feedback. Sickos like him get off on the positive and are reinforced by the negative.

Thank you for delving the depths for those of us too faint-hearted to go there ourselves.

b

You see...

This is where the castration law would come in mighty handy now.

DS

MlledeLaPlumeBleu said:

Everyone pay attention now, because closing a story is the hardest part of writing- you might pick up some tips!


>>>> story except was inserted here...>>>>


...sorry for the vitriole,

Mlle

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You know, I read this except and my stomach turned somersaults in disgust. It's a fairly stunning piece of writing. Try distancing yourself from the feelings and look at the explicitness. Basically the only thing missing is the colours of the bruising. If the author had added in the colours, the smells, maybe even hearing her moan or groan then that'd be one hell of a piece of writing.

Do not get me wrong, I don't get off on the extreme or nasty stuff.

As an author, try to recall the emotional state you were in before you read this except, then recall the emotional state you were in after you read it. Big difference. The writer has made a big impact.

I've just looked up the writer (had to copy and paste the link as it wouldn't work for me) and see it's americandemon.

I read the single web page story and as his editor has indicated, this is a very realistic like story - except for the part about the cellphone... I'm not sure that's quite possible and actually, I don't want to know.

I agree with his editor in that I hate the story. (no offense meant americandemon - it's just not my kinda thing.) But man, to get past the feelings and to take note of the detail that's there and the detail that's left out... interesting skill.

Now, I'm going to chill out and play with pink lollipops or something to clear the head.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Good grief!

Quint said:

Not to quibble (oh, who am I kidding?), I didn't say it wasn't erotic. I reported it because it was inappropriate for this site and belonged with its brethren in Extreme. Eroticism is far too subjective to be a guideline.

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That's what I thought you meant. No confusion there. However, I quoted your post and responded mostly to Dirty Slut rather than directly to you. ;-)

MM

Sorry Bridget. Jumped the gun

A lot of people are quick to excuse dangerous biological markers as exercises in free speech...

However, to exorcise our own free speech [and disgust] a friend of mine and I have written our own retributionary stories for this gentleman. It was quite cathartic, and I encourage anyone who is viscerally sickened by this sociopath's assault on the English language to do the same. Perhaps a chain story- in the parody/satire section, of course- as I don't suppose my light-hearted jail-house rape-romp would pass Lit's decency guidelines as easily as the gentleman's story does. (He doesn't come.)

miss blü pen

Wildsweet...

You sound like a TNT comercial for drama. But then all life is a drama.

DS

MlledeLaPlumeBleu said:

(He doesn't come.)

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Brava, brava, Mlle.

Trova

Wow, Wild Sweet One.


Do your lollipops have quaaludes in them?

Re: Wildsweet...

Dirty Slut said:

You sound like a TNT comercial for drama. But then all life is a drama.

DS

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? Sorry I don't know what a TNT commerical for drama is.

WSO or anyone: I'm not going to read the story but I'll accept your opinion that the writing is very good. Still, even if a piece were on a par with Joyce or Tolstoy I would not read descriptive passages of violence to women (or to children, men or animals).

I cannot bear, and do not watch rape scenes in films no matter the great director or actors involved. It seems to me the thought of rape, using one's most meager imagination, is all that needs to be suggested or evoked in whatever the plot or point of film. I'll take Kurosawa over David Lean or Quentin Tarantino.

just Perdita and a strong opinion

Re: Re: Wildsweet...

MlledeLaPlumeBleu

Wow, Wild Sweet One.


Do your lollipops have quaaludes in them?

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It figures that what I was trying to say would not come across properly. Sorry. I was merely looking at the story in an editorial manner, as seems to be my want these days *sigh*.

I do not go into the extreme section, nor the non-consent section because neither of those are my personal kettle of fish.

From an editor's point of view and perhaps a publishers, the kind of writing that makes people's emotions change is the kind of writing that sells.

Make sense now?

Blatantly describing vicious brutality is not "skill". Sorry. And I'm an expert at loving unlovable things...Bret Easton Ellis, for example. And haiku.

But honestly, WSO- yeah, I felt nice and warm before I read Americandemon's psychopathic sick fuck splooge-fest. And afterward I felt pretty fucking furious-naseous and retributionally homocidal.

And that has dick-all to do with his literary prowess and everything to do with the fact that he was fetishizing the brutalization and violation of a woman.

The writing?! Frankly- it fucking sucks. It's a laundry list. And it makes me sick. And no, that is not a literary triumph.

mlle

No, it still doesn't make sense. Not in the context I was originally espousing, which is that this story doesn't belong in Nonconsent because of a paltry bullshit "orgasm". If it were in "extreme" I wouldn't give two licks in a sandstorm.

However, I certainly appreciate your implication that things might not "make sense" to a reactionary illiterate like myself. So glad that you clarified that for me, in all your unbiased editorial wisdom. How nice the view must be from up there.


Oh, you may "want" to add the word "wont" to your editorial arsenal- but that may be another ridiculous undersight by a close-minded individual, as I am wont to be...

MlledeLaPlumeBleu said:

Blatantly describing vicious brutality is not "skill". Sorry. And I'm an expert at loving unlovable things...Bret Easton Ellis, for example. And haiku.

But honestly, WSO- yeah, I felt nice and warm before I read Americandemon's psychopathic sick fuck splooge-fest. And afterward I felt pretty fucking furious-naseous and retributionally homocidal.

And that has dick-all to do with his literary prowess and everything to do with the fact that he was fetishizing the brutalization and violation of a woman.

The writing?! Frankly- it fucking sucks. It's a laundry list. And it makes me sick. And no, that is not a literary triumph.

mlle

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Laundry list! You're right. It came across to me as a laundry list. I'm not sure I can go back and read it again though, which means there's an element of merit in what it says. Perhaps it was in the dialogue that the pure wretchedness of the entire incident turned my stomach. It was realistic - I know that from experience.

mlle, if you don't like this kind of stuff, why the heck were you in the non consent category anyway?

Another thought, these are meant to be fictional pieces of writing. As authors we are meant to be above the reader in that we create fiction. If we allow our feelings to get caught up in the stories we read, then are we better off than the people who send us feedback saying they wish they could tie us up and tickle our fancies just because we wrote a mild bdsm piece?

Be logical here. Swallow the personal sensations. This is a website that caters for almost every kind of need there is in the world and we all submit fiction stories to it. True enough, we don't have to like everything that's posted on the site. I know I don't.

Not defending americandemon at all, but, just because he wrote the story does not mean to say he has a SUV and advocates others to go out and rape women.

I had blood in a couple of my stories, I'm not personally a murderer though.

Frankly, one look at the title of ad's story and I wouldn't normally have bothered reading it.

btw i am not being accusatory or otherwise here, merely discussing.