Mental play

Personally, I am not as big into physical and literal submission as much as mental submission. I like finding ways to mentally torture my sub, play with her mind, etc.

I was wondering if any of you have more experience with this and could offer up some advice/suggestions?

Thank you in advance.

~Red.

I can't offer advice.. But I can relate to the interest in mental domination and submission. I'm determined to become a male mental sub one day.. If only I can find someone interested.
I'd be interested in seeing replies to this thread.

Oooh, yay, someone shares my interests. Thanks for replying.

I believe I've seen this referred to as the art of the "mind fuck" in previous discussions. I checked the Library, but didn't find anything, in particular. (didn't look very hard, though)

The psychological aspects of BDSM can be... fascinating. Hopefully a few who are better at it than I, will be along to discuss things with you.

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Quint said:

We went and played with a Pro-Domme last weekend. (Damn but I've been waiting for a chance to talk about it!) She had me suck two enormous dildos at various times that I could barely fit my mouth over. Later, I was in her swing, completely spread open and vulnerable, and she was working most of her hand into me to "get me ready" and talking about how she was going to stick both of those dildos into each of my holes. I'm unable to move, just writhing and pleading. She's cackling like a fiend and begins to push the dildos into me, still commenting about how they're going to stretch me out, I'll be ruined, etc, and all I'm thinking about was how massive they were when I was sucking them. Total panic, brain shut down, can't remember much of what happened past then but I was flying.

Well needless to say, they weren't the same horrific sizes and I wasn't ruined, but it was a terrifically wicked mindfuck. Fear, humiliation, suspension of disbelief, it's all amazingly powerful and fun.

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damn...that sounds like a fun night

i took a knife on my ex-wife before i had her tied up and was just licking and teasing then i pulled it out and showed her and started rubbing it up and down her thighs and around her breast...you know just letting her run on the knifes edge...she had cold chills all over and then i pulled it back and told her i was going to fuck her with it....she didn't know i switched it with a metal dildo....she came like right when i put it in..

that's a mind fuck....

zigzagzarf said:

damn...that sounds like a fun night

i took a knife on my ex-wife before i had her tied up and was just licking and teasing then i pulled it out and showed her and started rubbing it up and down her thighs and around her breast...you know just letting her run on the knifes edge...she had cold chills all over and then i pulled it back and told her i was going to fuck her with it....she didn't know i switched it with a metal dildo....she came like right when i put it in..

that's a mind fuck....

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That's amazing. I might have to try that one.

I have had an experience where I was ordered to have both cars washed (i think it was punishment for back chatting Him) before the oven timer went off. If I failed then I was told I would have to go on to the next task (mindless cleaning.. I fucken hate it) and so on until I completed one before the timer ended.

Little did I know that He had made sure to make it impossible to finish one so I spent a good portion of my day furiously cleaning as fast as I could. By the time He let me finish I was physically exhausted and worn down that I was able to listen to His explanation without getting angry about it, and even come to understand it. I have a tendancy to 'forget one's place' now and again, and when He points it out and tries to disipline me I get cranky. Mind games tend to help me find where my place is again, hehe.

there have been numerous studies on mental domination such as Millgram's obedience studies and Zimbardo's prison study. It seems we are all programmed to be obedient, if we see that as our only option for success/acceptance...and it can be damn erotic!

The trick...

... is in the immagination.

Heat and Cold can appear to be very similar when blindfolded, and it can be difficult to tell how hot a thing is if you've got a load of other stuff going on too.

A blunt edge can feel like a sharp one if you apply a little electricity (If you know how, don't just plug into the Mains.)

Think of something that scares the pants of your sub, I mean REALLY. Find something that would yield a similar sensation but "safer". Let them think you are going to inflict the "scary" thing. Then give them a lot of other things to think about, before introducing them to the "safer" version. Sensory deprivation helps, whatever would make it easiest to spot the switch, not always sight, though it can be difficult to eliminate the sense of touch, playing with any of the others can be... interesting.

However, that's just one side of the "Mental Games" coin. Another aspect is to give the sub exercises that cause them to see themselves differently. An obvious one is to deny them the use of personal pronouns, (I, Me, etc.). Making them do particular things at particular times, wether you are there or not, keeps them thinking about you and their roll.

Hope that helps,

Dragon

Do you have a specific question? Or a specific interest?

Most of BDSM is about, and in, the mind. A good flogger (the implement and its wielder both) is about sound, aroma, textures, touch ... and its power can be magnified or minimized by how these things are presented.

W/we just finished a fairly therapeutic session which was very physical, but the success of it hung on how she reacted to my voice and the soft touches which came in between sessions with the crop.

Yes, it's mind-fuck. That's where the most powerful sex organ lies, as you've heard so many times.

But I'll try to focus on a particular question, if you have one?

ST

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Dragonteeth said:

However, that's just one side of the "Mental Games" coin. Another aspect is to give the sub exercises that cause them to see themselves differently. An obvious one is to deny them the use of personal pronouns, (I, Me, etc.). Making them do particular things at particular times, wether you are there or not, keeps them thinking about you and their roll.

Hope that helps,

Dragon

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Yes, that does, because it narrows down what I was actually asking about, lol. It was hard for me to put into words, but that's the idea I'm looking for.

What I'm interested in doing is taking my sub on a mental trip to show her things she's never seen before, about the world, about herself, about our relationship, about how power works, etc.

This might manifest itself in punishing her by not playing with her, or using symbolic punishments and then making her figure out why I'm using them. The idea is basically taking her by the shoulders and forcing her eyes open to the world around her.

Do I make any sense?

I guess what my question is, is that I'm wondering what exactly I can do with this, if there are any other people out there who are into this kind of thing, and any precautions I should take or ideas I should try. I'm aware that playing with her mind is just as dangerous as playing with her body, so... yeah.

~Red.

Softouch911 said:

W/we just finished a fairly therapeutic session which was very physical, but the success of it hung on how she reacted to my voice and the soft touches which came in between sessions with the crop.

Yes, it's mind-fuck. That's where the most powerful sex organ lies, as you've heard so many times.

But I'll try to focus on a particular question, if you have one?

ST

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Yes, that is much closer to the mind-fuck I'm talking about, too. The whole hard-soft, twisting her emotions and sensations to broaden her experience and her submission.

Another trick is repetition for emphasis. Instruct her to do things but at each turn be sure to remind her exactly why, the position she has placed herself in relative to you. Also when you push a boundary and try something new successfully tell her how much further her submission to you has gone in that session, make her consider how far she might really go with you given time and trust.

You can also simply sit back and let her do the work for you. Questions like "Why are you doing this for me? Why do you think I have asked this of you? How does this make you feel? What are you learning about yourself? About Me?" If she's anything like me it'll all come pouring out in the heat of the moment and you'll gain other insights on what really makes her tick.

And of course, knowledge is power

VelvetDarkness said:

Another trick is repetition for emphasis. Instruct her to do things but at each turn be sure to remind her exactly why, the position she has placed herself in relative to you. Also when you push a boundary and try something new successfully tell her how much further her submission to you has gone in that session, make her consider how far she might really go with you given time and trust.

You can also simply sit back and let her do the work for you. Questions like "Why are you doing this for me? Why do you think I have asked this of you? How does this make you feel? What are you learning about yourself? About Me?" If she's anything like me it'll all come pouring out in the heat of the moment and you'll gain other insights on what really makes her tick.

And of course, knowledge is power

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Oh lord, I'm that way for a few days afterwards. She can ask me a question about just about anything, and I'll pretty much spill my entire soul to Her!

SweetCherry said:

Oh lord, I'm that way for a few days afterwards. She can ask me a question about just about anything, and I'll pretty much spill my entire soul to Her!

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Devious ain't they?

VelvetDarkness said:

Devious ain't they?

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Yup, they are. And damn me, but I love it.

I think you had at first be very honest about your own limitations before you set about 'playing with' a submissives mind at any level. A sweet minor trick in a set scene is one thing, more than that as you have admitted your inexperienced is possibly heading in a dangerous direction.

First consider her value/trust in you. Have you put in the genuine time to establish to her that her wellbeing is paramount to you ? 'Blind faith' submission ( that being the kind a well informed submissive offers based on her earned trust of you) doesn't happen over night. It can take a considerable amount of time, work and patience on the Dominants part. Have you that kind of patience ?

Are you honest enough in yourself as a Dominant to know your own short comings ? Have you addressed these ? How well do you know yourself ? All these need to be answered before you discover the same in her. Including any personal History that may be significent as to areas to avoid .

As a tool and an adjunct to conversation with your submissive I would recommend the Limits List. Make sure you chose a comprehensive one that has a range of answers to each topic and both complete them. You will see then in black and white a large area of potential scene topics covered. In this case using the list not only for interest levels and areas of hard limits but look at small range pursuits that are off limits and spend time talking to her if she is comfortable as to why. Topics she may not have felt comfortable discussing or initiating will be prompted from using the list .It may be surprising what you in fact learn. Respect the outcomes of that list. As time and experience together passes there is no reason why you cannot review and venture again to the list you may find her limits are different or softer on some topics and they should be areas you can push with the aim to challenge her without 'breaking' her.

Lit Library Resources

Psychology
Philosophy
Pain/Sensory Play
BDSM Information Websites

I find it interesting that many 'mind fucks' include lying to the sub.

When my SO wants to mentally dominate me, they can just whip out the Scrabble board.

Never said:

I find it interesting that many 'mind fucks' include lying to the sub.

When my SO wants to mentally dominate me, they can just whip out the Scrabble board.

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mmmm scrabble!

s_red830 said:

What I'm interested in doing is taking my sub on a mental trip to show her things she's never seen before, about the world, about herself, about our relationship, about how power works, etc.

This might manifest itself in punishing her by not playing with her, or using symbolic punishments and then making her figure out why I'm using them. The idea is basically taking her by the shoulders and forcing her eyes open to the world around her.

Do I make any sense?

I guess what my question is, is that I'm wondering what exactly I can do with this, if there are any other people out there who are into this kind of thing, and any precautions I should take or ideas I should try. ....
~Red.

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Well, yeah, we're all "into this kind of thing." And yes, the chief precaution you should take is to offer respect, especially if she is willing to entrust herself to you ... whether it's with a singletail or a mind game.

My favorite device is very simple, the journal. Assign a task, then have her journal it, then discuss it and get her to see it differently. For example: "come ten times today. Each time must be different. Explain which is best/least and why." Gets at the nature of her sexuality and preferences and favorite fantasies. And she'll love you for it.

Another I've recently begun: each evening before bed we sit, she on her floor pillow, me in my chair, and we talk about the day. She is required to tell me the parts of the day she submitted most successfully, and any parts of the day she feels she forgot who owns her. Of course I can mention a few things myself It gives a great chance to reinforce who we are and what we're doing.

ST

s_red830 said:

I guess what my question is, is that I'm wondering what exactly I can do with this, if there are any other people out there who are into this kind of thing, and any precautions I should take or ideas I should try. I'm aware that playing with her mind is just as dangerous as playing with her body, so... yeah.
~Red.

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I think you'll find that the answer is "Anything You Like". The psychology we use in a BDSM environment plays with all kinds of drives, and if you take the timne to educate yourself you can take your sub LITERALLY anywhere you want.

A word of warning, you suggest that "playing with her mind is as dangerous as playing with her body". Be aware that it is INFINATELY more so. An unthinking Dom can do some SERIOUS damage without either partner being aware of it.

I know of one particular lady who was particularly thouroughly screwed up by her ex. She now has "Multiple Personalities" and is quite incapable of any sexual feelings, even solo fantasies. I'm gonna be charitable and sugest that the guy did not intend such a result, though I have a very low opinion if his motives. After very lengthy discussions with her I belive he hypnotized her and implanted a series of "Post Hypnotic Sugestions". The "damage" done could concivably be "fixed", it would require a LOT of work, and frankly she does not trust ANYONE to help her in this capacity. She has learned to live with her situaltion.

Information is very valuable. I have spent a long time investigating this subject and I'm a LONG way from being an expert in the field. What you are playing with will include a varietly of Hypnotic Techniques as well as some that might be classed as "Brain Washing". Before you get in too deep, I suggest you get a good understanding of how those terms apply and the differences between them as well as their similarities. But also bear in mind that they are not actually very well understood even by people who DO have legitimate claim to experties in the field.

Playing with somones mind can be fun and rewarding for both partners, but walk with care upon this path.

The Dragon get's off his soap box.

I guess it's like everything else Red, start with the little things and work up to everything else gradually, as you both become accustomed to your roles and the dynamic between you. Just play it cautiously by ear and do your homework either here on Lit or elsewhere. You have so many well meaning critics here, they won't always agree with you but sounding things out on the forums helps you to become more objective about your D/s relationship. You're acutely aware that you can't run before you've walked and IMHO that's a better safeguard than anything else.

There is no wiser man on Earth than one who acknowledges that he has absolutely no idea what he is doing. - Oscar Wilde

From an outsiders point of view.

It fascinates me how you can be so psychologically fucked with and enjoy it, I mean the mind can be a very fragile thing aren't any of you afraid of any permanent damage being done, or is that risk part of the thrill?

If danger is part of the thrill , well I read in here that the Sub must trust the Dom, well if she trusts him and knows he wont really hurt her then there is no danger, so how do you get a thrill out of it?

Trying to understand.

Retrieval