Natural Family Planning/Fertility Awareness

I never considered NFP/FA (if you're unfamiliar with it, here's Planned Parenthood's primer and a Wikipedia article)to be an option for contraception because I always associated it with the highly unreliable Rhythm Method. So I was really surprised to learn some of the methods are as, if not more, effective than our current bc (condoms) when I looked into it after seeing it mentioned here.

We're interested in switching to FA because:
- We'd prefer not to have to use condoms every time
- It's natural and can be used throughout my fertile years
- STIs aren't a concern for us
- While this isn't an optimal time for a pregnancy, we've decided we can afford a little more risk/less efficacy than in the past
- I'd like to learn and be more aware of my body
- I'll likely need to use it to get pregnant in the next couple of years anyway

For me, the downside of FA is it requires a lot more learning, work (regimented temp. taking, observation, careful charting, etc.), and seems easier to screw up than condoms. However, my husband and I are willing to commit to learning, doing it properly and consistently, and seeing if it works well for us.

The questions:
I'd like to hear the experiences of those who have used the more reliable Fertility Awareness/NFP methods (BBT, cervical mucous, sympto-thermal -- i.e. NOT the rhythm/calendar/counting days methods). I'm curious about things like: Which method(s) you used, where you learned, how long did you use it, was it effective, what did you like/dislike, (how) did it affect your sex life, etc.?

I'd also appreciate being pointed to any resources you've found particularly helpful.

Additional questions and discussion from those who are interested or using it (even for conception) are welcome as well. I'm hoping this thread will be a good place for many of us to share, learn, and discuss in the future.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

Scalywag said:

We don't have any experience in this area, so I can't offer anything. I wish you both well though.

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Thanks, Scaly!

After I got off the BCP a few months ago - we decided that we would try this method. However, I will admit I'm still leary and we often use condoms if I feel the need. I've read nearly a hundred articles regarding the original rhythm method and the basal method. I find the basal method combined with mucous readings to be the most reassuring for me. We refrain or use condoms with the temp spikes and the mucous is slick. However, when your temp spikes and your vaginal walls are slick is typically when you will want sex the most. You have to relegate yourself each morning to check, which isn't all that problematic - except when you're dying to get up and pee. Sex life with this method isn't really affected much, unless your abstaining instead of using a condom. Also, illness can make your readings strange.

I'll go back and find some of those resources I read over - so you can do some research. You may have already found on the internet what I had read - but I also went down to the university library and found some great medical reference material.

Some background: I don't know much about the women in my families' history. I know my mom had her last child around 42 and my sister had several tubal pregnancies and had a hysterectomy at 28. Unfortunately, my mother passed on when I was 6 and my sister when I was 24 - so I am "on my own" so to speak. Plus, my sister was a good 20 years older than me - so we never had those discussions.

I'm 35 and do want at least one child but my back has been screwed up - two lower back herniated disks and a crack in my L4. I'm terrified of the additional weight. I already have to modify so many things. I can't imagine putting on 25 pounds comfortably plus I have some of the fears other women have with regard to childbirth and childrearing.

Good luck to you.

It's funny that Erika is starting to explore this at the same time that my wife and I have started using it. I'm going to offer another side of the NFP experience, using it to GET pregnant. The regulars here know that my wife has a condition called Polycystic Ovarion Syndrome (PCOS) which among other things keeps her from ovulating. We've just begun using a cervical mucus testing method to chart her cycles, not just to test fertility, but to determine what therapies are needed to treat her PCOS and achieve ovulation.

We're using a technique called the Creighton Model. Now I'll warn everyone, this particular method of mucus observation is VERY Catholic and includes a couple pieces that are geared toward relationship advice, but I'll talk about that later. My wife and I had our first into meeting with a Fertility Care Practicioner two weeks ago and were supposed to follow up tonight. Due to work, we're moving that, so what I have is all based on the into meeting.

What the Creighton Model is based on is observation of the cervical mucus. The technique for testing it pretty easy. In a nutshell the woman simply wifes with a tissue a couple times BEFORE she urinates and then observes any mucus that might be on the tissue. Color, amount, stretchiness, or absence thereof. She does this through out the day and then records them to determine if she is fertile or not. No counting days, no guessing, it's right there to see. Once you learn this method they claim that it is 99.5% effective if used perfectly, and under practical use making the mistakes that normal people do it is 96.9% effective. That's pretty freakin good!

So I asked what makes this better than the Temp method. Well if you just want to track ovulation, the temp method works pretty well. The observation of mucus though offers a wealth of information as to what is going on in the woman's body. In my wife's case, they';ll use this data to adjust her medication and hormone therapies, finding the right combination of progesterone and estrogen to get her cycling normally and ovulating normally. You can't really do that with a temp method. The science behind this model was truly astounding. I knew the Catholic diocese in our city was really pushing this so I figured it would be mired in religious stuff and be unreliable. Quite the opposite, the intro meeting had very little religious overtone and was strictly scientific, and that science really impressed me.

Now there is a component to this called SPICE, and I can't recall what it stands for, but it's the Catholic relationship part of this. I've just read what's int he book, but I'm trying ot keep an open mind here. My first response was, yeah whatever, our sex life is awesome and you're not gonna come in and fuck it up! Then I realized two things. First, there are going to be some modifications to our sexual habits in order to achieve our goal of getting pregnant. Little things, but still there will be a few. Secondly as I read through this I found it was pretty logical stuff. The point is to teach the couple to respect the intimacy of sex and to focus more on the love than the lust. Now that's typical Catholic, but VERY important to natural family planning.

Let's put aside the religious believe that lust is a sin and talk about the difference between lust and love, as it applies here. Love is the connection, the intimacy which emotionaly connects us. Lust is a physical response, which while it may be accompanied by emotional response, is response to a purely sexual stimulus. If you are going to have a relationship and use NFP to avoid pregnancy, you must conqure that lust. You can't decide you are too horny to resist and decide to "take a chance" on a fertile day. You have to learn to supress that desire, or as the SPICE method discusses, channel it a different way into a different sexual, but non-genital response. That's right, they actually use the term "non-genital".

The point is that NFP has to be a partnership, one where each partner helps the other through those weak moments. A woman can not do this on her own if her partner isn't 100% committed. It can't be her telling him no when he's horny and she's fertile, it has to be the couple talking about it, realizing she's fertile, and making that decision together. You can't look at it as denial, you have to look at it as postponement.

That partnership and communication is a key component to successful use of NFP. Getting started is a daunting task. My wife has had a tough time with this, because on top of everything else she's been sick. I've had to be there to help her chart things, to just let her tell me what she's seen and then from those observations, I record the data and chart it. I highly recommend this to every couple using one of these methods because it keeps the man engaged and aware of the process. Another side effect is that just as the woman is learning a wealth of info about her body, so does her partner. Guys, this will give you a way better understanding for why your partner does those things she does when she does them, and more importantly, learn when to speak up and when to just run quick to the store for a pint of Ben & Jerry's

The thing I rolled my eyes at is their descriptions of "genital contact." This one is specific to the Creighton Model, or at least the way it is taught. They make a big deal of avoiding genital contact during those days the woman is fertile. This specifically says no unclothed genital to genital or hand to genital contact. The reasons for htis are obvious, but int he Creighton method there is no mention of Oral Sex or use of condoms on fertile days. The reason is obviously becasue the Catholic church see's using condoms as a sin, and of course no catholic girl ever gave a blowjob in her life! As my wife said, if you have a fertile day why don't you just swallow? Ahhhh her mother would be so proud!

Of course this is different for us. We're trying to get pregnant. Now the Creighton Model says that when trying to achieve pregnancy, couples of normal fertility are 80% likely to be pregnant by the 7th. We have to achieve that normal fertility level first, but stories we've heard from other PCOS couples have ranged 6-9 months, and everyone we've talked to has had success. THAT was what astounded me the most! There are never any guarantees but we know other couples with the same issues we have, and this method has worked for all of them who've tried it!

There's one last thing about this method that I shoudl point out. Before you hear it's a Catholic program, snort and be on your way, hold up a bit This method is being used by OBGYN's throughout my sity, most of whom aren't Catholic. In our intro class, I would say only half were Catholic. There was even a gal there who is learning this method to help with hormone level fluctuations due to breastfeeding! The thing about the way this is presented is that it does so in a way which I felt was profoundly respectful of women and their bodies. So often the old farts in the church stil seem to regard women as less than equals, but that's not the case here. Here women are put on a pedestal as what they truly are, the wonderous givers of life, and their bodies, their womanhood, should be respect and treated with great dignity.There's a genuine belief that a woman's body is naturally built to control whether or not they concieve, and utilizing that is not just morally better in the eyes of the church, but it's healthier as well. That's a logic that I can't refute. If you look past the religious stuff you can see that it makes sense.

So that's the long version. Here's the bullets of the good and bad of the Creighton Model:

The Good Points

• No more freakin condoms!
• Both partners learn a wealth about the woman's body and her cycles. I believe this understanding can bring a couple closer to each other.
• It's impossible not to have intimacy in your relationship if you do this together.
• It's way healthier for the woman than using birth control pills or patches.
• It's religiously accepted. This won't matter to everyone, but it is a concern for some. Where as the pill, IUDs, etc. can sometimes cause a fertilized egg to not latch on, effectively aborting a potential fetus, this method avoids that completely. As I said, some people believe that life begins at conception, and this method avoids that moral dilemma.
• It is extremely accurate. Just like anything, if you do it incorrectly that number starts to drop, but done right it is as effective as condoms. (NOTE this is only for pregnancy prevention, not STIs.)
• When you are ready to get pregnant it is extremely effective for achieving pregnancy.
• It can help you notice changes in your cycle and identify potential problems early for treatment.
• Rather than the innaccurate method of dating conception to the last day of your last cycle, this chart will let you pin point to the day the moment your child was concieved. That's pretty cool.

The Bad Points:

• Well for one thing, this method can be a little gross if you are squeamish. I mean wipe the mucus from your vagina then play with it to see how stretchy it is? If you're squeamish, that might be a little rough to get used to.
• If you have a lack of willpower it's easy to "take a chance" when your chart says you are fertile. The more often you do this, the easier it gets to take those risks.
• The worst part is the intial 30 day or one cycle waiting period. That's right, seminal fluid can be confused with mucus, so no sex for the first month while you record a baseline of observations!

Well I apologize for the long post but this is something Erika had mentioned starting and something that had really become important to my wife and I in the last couple weeks. We're meeting with this Fertility Care Practitioner once every few weks, so if you have any questions that I can't answer about this method, I'd be willing to ask her.

Just one last thing. I think it's awesome that Erika and others are trying NFP. I'd always figured it was strictly a Catholic thing, but there are hundreds of reasons to try this that have nothing to do with religion. I think it's great that we're discussing this. It's definitely not for everyone, but I guess it's maybe more widely useful than I thought it was. I can't wait to see the discussion to follow.

Creighton Model
Billings Ovulation Method (upon which the Creighton Model is based)

Wow, TBK, I'm impressed. MrB and I are long past the time when we have to worry about these issues, but it was fascinating reading.

And I'd like to state for the record, your wife did an outstanding job in the husband-choosing department. She's a woman to be envied.

bobsgirl said:

Wow, TBK, I'm impressed. MrB and I are long past the time when we have to worry about these issues, but it was fascinating reading.

And I'd like to state for the record, your wife did an outstanding job in the husband-choosing department. She's a woman to be envied.

Click to expand...

Ahh shucks.

cloakedlover said:

After I got off the BCP a few months ago - we decided that we would try this method. However, I will admit I'm still leary and we often use condoms if I feel the need. I've read nearly a hundred articles regarding the original rhythm method and the basal method. I find the basal method combined with mucous readings to be the most reassuring for me. We refrain or use condoms with the temp spikes and the mucous is slick. However, when your temp spikes and your vaginal walls are slick is typically when you will want sex the most. You have to relegate yourself each morning to check, which isn't all that problematic - except when you're dying to get up and pee. Sex life with this method isn't really affected much, unless your abstaining instead of using a condom. Also, illness can make your readings strange.

I'll go back and find some of those resources I read over - so you can do some research. You may have already found on the internet what I had read - but I also went down to the university library and found some great medical reference material.

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Thanks for sharing, Cloakedlover! I've read a fair amount online (though I still need good practical resources), and have also determined the sympto-thermal method (a combo of Basal temp, cervical mucous, and some other changes) is most reliable and best for us. For contraception, I just don't want to rely on my powers of observation for one factor, and I'm just especially fond of having backups in place.

We kind of figure any reduction in condom use will be a nice change, so we certainly don't mind using condoms for even a third of my cycle. I think I may have hubby wake me up to stick the thermometer in my mouth and record the result on weekdays so he can be involved and back my memory up as well.

How long did it take you to feel like you really had the routine down, CL? I just started my cycle yesterday and am getting the BBT thermometer today, and was planning on using this cycle as a trial run and to get into the habit (of course we'll use condoms the rest of the cycle).

SweetErika said:

How long did it take you to feel like you really had the routine down, CL? I just started my cycle yesterday and am getting the BBT thermometer today, and was planning on using this cycle as a trial run and to get into the habit (of course we'll use condoms the rest of the cycle).

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Wow - I thought I'd only been off BCP for 4 months, but hubby tells me it's been about 6-7 months. The first three months were sorta' nervewracking. Keep in mind I also saw an acupuncturist b/c my cycle without hormones was every 3rd to 4th month and he regulated me naturally after only a few visits. I was so thrilled - you just don't know. Once he got me regular, it was around the 4th month that I finally felt comfortable with the basal/mucous method. This month however, everyone, including me, has been sick and it seriously jacks with the readings and your body, in general. We haven't had all that much sex this month since we've felt awful, but we used a condom each time b/c it seemed the right choice.

Another thing I'm dealing with now is possibly the complete absence of those BCP hormones making my sex drive much higher, which means my secretion level has jumped as well. So I will be spending an exorbitant amount of time with my observations this month - details, details.

TBK - keep us informed with how the conception efforts go. I'm sure everyone is cheering you on!

TBKahuna123 said:

The Bad Points:

• Well for one thing, this method can be a little gross if you are squeamish. I mean wipe the mucus from your vagina then play with it to see how stretchy it is? If you're squeamish, that might be a little rough to get used to.
• If you have a lack of willpower it's easy to "take a chance" when your chart says you are fertile. The more often you do this, the easier it gets to take those risks.
• The worst part is the intial 30 day or one cycle waiting period. That's right, seminal fluid can be confused with mucus, so no sex for the first month while you record a baseline of observations!

Well I apologize for the long post but this is something Erika had mentioned starting and something that had really become important to my wife and I in the last couple weeks. We're meeting with this Fertility Care Practitioner once every few weks, so if you have any questions that I can't answer about this method, I'd be willing to ask her.

Just one last thing. I think it's awesome that Erika and others are trying NFP. I'd always figured it was strictly a Catholic thing, but there are hundreds of reasons to try this that have nothing to do with religion. I think it's great that we're discussing this. It's definitely not for everyone, but I guess it's maybe more widely useful than I thought it was. I can't wait to see the discussion to follow.

Click to expand...

I'm so glad to have you share the Creighton method and how this fits with your personal beliefs, TBK. Plus, it'll be interesting for me to see how it works for conception...you and the Mrs. can officially consider yourselves my guinea pigs.

Apparently the symptothermal method doesn't require a month of total abstinence...that seems to be a mucus-only method thing. And here I thought I'd have to part with the almighty cock and Magic Wand for a month! I'm also thrilled we won't have to abstain at all if we back up with condoms; I can usually tell when I'm fertile just by my horniness level, and I don't think I would go for any method that didn't allow sex when we wanted it.

I wonder how many people think normal vaginal discharge is 'gross.' I've always been kind of fascinated with it, myself...since I've been off the pill, it's been neat to see how it changes with my cycle. I'm inclined to think those who can't handle looking at and touching normal secretions probably have no business having sex in the first place.

This might be a little controversial, so I apologize in advance if something's offensive--it's unintentional. I wish I'd been careful and looked specifically for information from unbiased/nonreligious sources because I got confused about which practices were scientifically necessary and which were belief-based. For example, some sources say abstinence is the only option when the reality is it's fine to abstain or use a back-up barrier method like condoms. Of course not abstaining increases the risk of pregnancy because barrier methods can fail, but many sources don't mention the possibility of using a barrier method at all, or just say they're "not/never acceptable with this NFP method."

Most of the sites I've visited also fail to be clear about whether they have religious affiliations, and/or are advising based on pure science or a combination of science and their beliefs. Now I don't have a problem with advising based on religion --that's great for those who want it-- but I do take issue with passing opinions off as facts, not separating science and factual information from religious/personal beliefs, and not being clear the info is biased. This site is one example of plenty of bias and skewed information (now I know I shouldn't even bother with condoms to guard against STIs because they fail 46% of the time ) passed off as factual. While it doesn't take a genius to figure out the organization is religious, I feel they should be responsible and put a glaring "the information on this site is congruent with our spiritual beliefs" warning on each page so people understand everything's coming from a certain viewpoint.

I guess it's just irritating that I have to dig to ensure sources don't have a hidden agenda and I'll be getting factual information. I know that's necessary with many different types of sites, but I've never researched something for my own use where religion and science were so intertwined and disguised, so this is a new experience for me.

SweetErika said:

Most of the sites I've visited also fail to be clear about whether they have religious affiliations, and/or are advising based on pure science or a combination of science and their beliefs. Now I don't have a problem with advising based on religion --that's great for those who want it-- but I do take issue with passing opinions off as facts, not separating science and factual information from religious/personal beliefs, and not being clear the info is biased. This site is one example of plenty of bias and skewed information (now I know I shouldn't even bother with condoms to guard against STIs because they fail 46% of the time ) passed off as factual. While it doesn't take a genius to figure out the organization is religious, I feel they should be responsible and put a glaring "the information on this site is congruent with our spiritual beliefs" warning on each page so people understand everything's coming from a certain viewpoint.

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could you imagine if single people not in monogamous relationships read that website you linked to and figured they might as well use this method instead of using condoms cos condoms fail nearly half the time! thats how HIV etc is going to get spread around more if they're having multiple partners and not using condoms.

SweetErika said:

I'm so glad to have you share the Creighton method and how this fits with your personal beliefs, TBK. Plus, it'll be interesting for me to see how it works for conception...you and the Mrs. can officially consider yourselves my guinea pigs.

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You're more than welcome. Thanks for starting this thread because I never would have done it on my own. The reason is exactly what you said, I don't like to impose my religious beliefs on others. I mean I have them and my convictions are strong, but that's what works for me. Until you and I started discussing this a couple weeks ago though, I honestly never thought anyone but us Catholics used NFP. Heck I thought that was just a name that the church came up with.

SweetErika said:

Apparently the symptothermal method doesn't require a month of total abstinence...that seems to be a mucus-only method thing. And here I thought I'd have to part with the almighty cock and Magic Wand for a month! I'm also thrilled we won't have to abstain at all if we back up with condoms; I can usually tell when I'm fertile just by my horniness level, and I don't think I would go for any method that didn't allow sex when we wanted it.

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Yeah, well I gotta be honest, I understand what they are trying to achieve and if you read stuff really closely, the point is they don't want an accidental prgnancy. That and the presence of semen can be confusing to mucus testing. The reality is even on the creighton method if you used a condom you could have sex inthat first month, at least that's how I read it between the lines. It flat out says that vaginal lubricant secretions are easily distinguishable and can never be confused as cervical mucus, so that's not an issue, just semen. I say if that's the case, go ahead and burn out that Magic Wand motor, you aren't gonna screw up your readings. The risk is just in that pregnancy area.

SweetErika said:

Most of the sites I've visited also fail to be clear about whether they have religious affiliations, and/or are advising based on pure science or a combination of science and their beliefs. Now I don't have a problem with advising based on religion --that's great for those who want it-- but I do take issue with passing opinions off as facts, not separating science and factual information from religious/personal beliefs, and not being clear the info is biased. This site is one example of plenty of bias and skewed information (now I know I shouldn't even bother with condoms to guard against STIs because they fail 46% of the time ) passed off as factual. While it doesn't take a genius to figure out the organization is religious, I feel they should be responsible and put a glaring "the information on this site is congruent with our spiritual beliefs" warning on each page so people understand everything's coming from a certain viewpoint.

I guess it's just irritating that I have to dig to ensure sources don't have a hidden agenda and I'll be getting factual information. I know that's necessary with many different types of sites, but I've never researched something for my own use where religion and science were so intertwined and disguised, so this is a new experience for me.

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That's actually one of the things I liked about the Creighton method, they make no bones aboutthe religious tie in. I mean it's called the Pope Paul VI Fertility Center, they aren' hiding it!

I think it's easier for me to read the manual and discern what is scientific and what is religious. Also, there really isn't a whole lot of religion mixed into the science that I saw. They've kind of seperated that off into it's own part, which is what SPICE is. Where you see a difference is where abstinence is the only offered choice during fertile periods, but that is strictly due to the Catholic policy against barrier methods(condoms).

One thing I did like was they talk about avoiding genital contact, but never avoiding sexual contact. Part of that whole SPICE thing is looking at sexual contact as being about more than just the genitalia. Now they arent talking about a wide variety of techniques and foreplay here, they're talking about physical intimacy. I guess I have a hard time scoffing at that because I think it's something a lot of relationships lack.

ickle_stace said:

could you imagine if single people not in monogamous relationships read that website you linked to and figured they might as well use this method instead of using condoms cos condoms fail nearly half the time! thats how HIV etc is going to get spread around more if they're having multiple partners and not using condoms.

Click to expand...

You're absolutely right, and I think sites like this with religious beliefs included need to be MORE responsible because of it. I mean I'd have a lot more respect for a site that says using condoms is against he practices of the church and against our beliefs because XXX, than I would one that says condoms are only 46% effective? Heck just ask Eilan for a link to that one site she found! WOW!

Anal sex is a gateway to swinging? Huh? Come on now, glass house, he who is without sin, all that good stuff, let's remember that. Especially with something like this.

The more I learn about NFP the bigger advocate I'm becoming. I think it's a healthier form of BC and has lots of other benefits too. Realistically though, it's only for married couples or couples who are willing to take some risk of pregnancy. Granted if done correctly that risk is minute, but you never know. It still leaves the door open for God (or mother nature if you prefer) to throw you a curve ball.

TBKahuna123 said:

You're absolutely right, and I think sites like this with religious beliefs included need to be MORE responsible because of it. I mean I'd have a lot more respect for a site that says using condoms is against he practices of the church and against our beliefs because XXX, than I would one that says condoms are only 46% effective? Heck just ask Eilan for a link to that one site she found! WOW!

Anal sex is a gateway to swinging? Huh? Come on now, glass house, he who is without sin, all that good stuff, let's remember that. Especially with something like this.

The more I learn about NFP the bigger advocate I'm becoming. I think it's a healthier form of BC and has lots of other benefits too. Realistically though, it's only for married couples or couples who are willing to take some risk of pregnancy. Granted if done correctly that risk is minute, but you never know. It still leaves the door open for God (or mother nature if you prefer) to throw you a curve ball.

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That site is more talking about artificial protection is stopping a woman having control over her fertility etc, there isn't any mention of astinence if not in a monogamous relationship, or talk of STDs etc. I just think it would give out the wrong impression to younger people who are engaging in sex with numerous partners.

If you're only ever going to use natural methods, I think abstinence until in a serious long term monogamous relationship is whats needed, but that site wasn't saying that!

cloakedlover said:

Wow - I thought I'd only been off BCP for 4 months, but hubby tells me it's been about 6-7 months. The first three months were sorta' nervewracking. Keep in mind I also saw an acupuncturist b/c my cycle without hormones was every 3rd to 4th month and he regulated me naturally after only a few visits. I was so thrilled - you just don't know. Once he got me regular, it was around the 4th month that I finally felt comfortable with the basal/mucous method. This month however, everyone, including me, has been sick and it seriously jacks with the readings and your body, in general. We haven't had all that much sex this month since we've felt awful, but we used a condom each time b/c it seemed the right choice.

Click to expand...

Great info, thanks! I'm glad you mentioned how you deal with illness. I know that alcohol consumption can affect temp too, but need to look into that more.

Like TBK's wife, I have PCOS, and definitely know the wacky cycle dance. I went off the pill in Sept. 2004 (even on it, I wasn't necessarily regular), and am regular as long as I'm strict about taking my medication (yay Metformin!). For the last two months, I've been on a 25 day cycle (I track it on mymonthlycycles.com), and expect to stay regular if I keep being so vigilant with the Metformin (when I slack or forget too much, my cycle length varies from 19-32 days). Yesterday, despite a massive headache and cramps, I was thrilled to see my period because it arrived day 25/when it was supposed to. I know that sounds silly to most, but predictability IS exciting and so reassuring after this many years of problems, and I finally feel like I have this disease under control.

I obviously have a lot of research and learning to do still, but wondered if not taking my BBT the first two days of this cycle will affect my charting for the entire month. Like I said, we'll use condoms this month, but I don't want to screw up the trial run too much. Generally, the BBT stays about the same through your period, correct?

Another thing I'm dealing with now is possibly the complete absence of those BCP hormones making my sex drive much higher, which means my secretion level has jumped as well. So I will be spending an exorbitant amount of time with my observations this month - details, details.

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I've had the same experience coming off the pill. I'd been on it for 8 years, and had no idea I was naturally so horny and wet, or that my secretions would vary so much. It's so neat to see how my body really works and changes!

ickle_stace said:

That site is more talking about artificial protection is stopping a woman having control over her fertility etc, there isn't any mention of astinence if not in a monogamous relationship, or talk of STDs etc. I just think it would give out the wrong impression to younger people who are engaging in sex with numerous partners.

If you're only ever going to use natural methods, I think abstinence until in a serious long term monogamous relationship is whats needed, but that site wasn't saying that!

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I don't want to get too far off topic with this, but you have to undestand one thing: by their beliefs young people engaing numerous partners is wrong and isn't something they should be doing. It's not a site about safe sex, it's a site about natural family planning. As such, it's not that site's job to talk about STIs and such. It's not like it's a site where you should send kids to learn sex obviously.

Now that said, first off it's not even a very good site for NFP, IMNSHO. Additionally if you aren't in a committed relationship then again I'll say NFP isn't for you. If you are looking at an NFP site for birth control with numerous partners, then you have the wrong idea of what NFP is all about. Does that make sense?

Hey gang! I'm a FAM user from way back, and the manual for me is Toni Weschler's Taking Charge of Your Fertility.

My husband and I first started practicing FAM trying to avoid (TTA) pregnancy; we were in a similar situation as you in that we were monogomous and not concerned with STDs, and could accept a slightly higher pregnancy risk. I am allergic to most spermicides, so condoms, etc., are out. I had been on the pill years ago, but after a short time my gallbladder was ruined and had to be removed. I'd like to keep as many organs as possible, so the pill is out.

FAM met all our needs. It's a sympto-thermal method, so it's part Creighton Method and part temping. Cervical fluid observation has already been covered so I won't really go into that. However, both when we were TTA and now that we're trying to conceive (TTC), the temping for us is absolutely essential - my body can "gear up" to ovulate a few times if I'm having a long cycle, but only my basal body temperature (BBT) can CONFIRM ovulation. This is important because if your body "fakes you out" with all the symptoms of ovulation, yet you don't have a temp rise to corroborate the actual event, you can think you're clear! Oops! Or, for all your diligent fluid and position observation, if you are TTC and never really ovulate, what's the point? If you don't temp, you don't know.

It wasn't much of an adjustment to start temping and checking my cervical fluid and position. It was fun at first, rather like a game - what's going to happen today? By the time the novelty wore off it was second nature, so it's never been a big deal.

For a long time I charted on paper, but now I use FAM software (www.ovusoft.com). I love that I can upload my charts and get help from their forum users when I need it. I think that's extremely important in the beginning, when things aren't necessarily as clear as the book says they'll be.

Whenever my signs were unclear, it was an easy thing to abstain or find another way to have fun. Certainly condom use is a great back-up method, too. But once you're sure you've ovulated - woohoo! Love it, love it, love it. Makes every morning you didn't want to wake up to temp so very worthwhile.

I've feel like I've been writing forever and have lost my point LOL, so let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to address them!

Best wishes to you!

TBKahuna123 said:

Yeah, well I gotta be honest, I understand what they are trying to achieve and if you read stuff really closely, the point is they don't want an accidental prgnancy. That and the presence of semen can be confusing to mucus testing. The reality is even on the creighton method if you used a condom you could have sex inthat first month, at least that's how I read it between the lines. It flat out says that vaginal lubricant secretions are easily distinguishable and can never be confused as cervical mucus, so that's not an issue, just semen. I say if that's the case, go ahead and burn out that Magic Wand motor, you aren't gonna screw up your readings. The risk is just in that pregnancy area.

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I think I was confused by the "NO GENITAL CONTACT" deal...they make it seem like touching and masturbation would render charting useless. I also made the mistake of thinking the (Billings) Ovulation Method was the science the religious methods like Creighton were based off of. Apparently Billings was Catholic too, and that's why it promotes no contact and complete abstinence.

I just read this article which gives the history and Church's perspectives of NFP. It's interesting, but the thing I found fascinating was even though the secular Fertility Awareness Method is promoted as natural, almost-free, healthy, a good way to increase intimacy, healthy relationships, get men involved, etc., --just like the Catholic church's NFP Ovulation method-- the Church calls FAM "just another form of birth control that's unacceptable to the Catholic." The ONLY difference is FAM allows people to choose between using a barrier method or masturbation and abstinence during the 'unsafe' periods. I know condoms and masturbation are Catholic no-nos, but would think the Church would happy even non-Catholics are using a safe, effective method that promotes intimacy and marriage, that works well for them. Apparently not.

Stace, I agree it's dangerous to put crappy info out there and not specify FA/NFP is only to be used by monogamous couples in LTRs and fail to educate on STI protection and abstinence. I can see TBK's point about it being a NFP site, but if they're going to talk about condoms and HIV, other methods of BC, and things like abortion, they have an obligation to give correct information and specify who should be learning it. Overall, I'm just fed up with the misinformation and ridiculous ideas these organizations spout...they're so caught up in being righteous that they miss the boat on common sense and helping people.

lizaveta said:

Hey gang! I'm a FAM user from way back, and the manual for me is Toni Weschler's Taking Charge of Your Fertility.

My husband and I first started practicing FAM trying to avoid (TTA) pregnancy; we were in a similar situation as you in that we were monogomous and not concerned with STDs, and could accept a slightly higher pregnancy risk. I am allergic to most spermicides, so condoms, etc., are out. I had been on the pill years ago, but after a short time my gallbladder was ruined and had to be removed. I'd like to keep as many organs as possible, so the pill is out.

FAM met all our needs. It's a sympto-thermal method, so it's part Creighton Method and part temping. Cervical fluid observation has already been covered so I won't really go into that. However, both when we were TTA and now that we're trying to conceive (TTC), the temping for us is absolutely essential - my body can "gear up" to ovulate a few times if I'm having a long cycle, but only my basal body temperature (BBT) can CONFIRM ovulation. This is important because if your body "fakes you out" with all the symptoms of ovulation, yet you don't have a temp rise to corroborate the actual event, you can think you're clear! Oops! Or, for all your diligent fluid and position observation, if you are TTC and never really ovulate, what's the point? If you don't temp, you don't know.

It wasn't much of an adjustment to start temping and checking my cervical fluid and position. It was fun at first, rather like a game - what's going to happen today? By the time the novelty wore off it was second nature, so it's never been a big deal.

For a long time I charted on paper, but now I use FAM software (www.ovusoft.com). I love that I can upload my charts and get help from their forum users when I need it. I think that's extremely important in the beginning, when things aren't necessarily as clear as the book says they'll be.

Whenever my signs were unclear, it was an easy thing to abstain or find another way to have fun. Certainly condom use is a great back-up method, too. But once you're sure you've ovulated - woohoo! Love it, love it, love it. Makes every morning you didn't want to wake up to temp so very worthwhile.

I've feel like I've been writing forever and have lost my point LOL, so let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to address them!

Best wishes to you!

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Oh, thank you so much...It's all really helpful!

Weschler's book is on the way, so I'll be working on learning the basics for awhile. I feel a lot more comfortable knowing the BBT is such a good backup. I decided on the symptothermal method a few days ago because I'm not willing to rely on my mucous- producing or -reading skills alone for contraception...it's just too risky right now. It's great to hear confirmation of that choice and also that confusion will be normal and my BBT will help me figure the real deal out.

I was also wondering about charting; while I've found good charts (here are printable charts from the Ovusoft site), I was curious about the software. I think I'm going to download Ovusoft and start using the free trial. I'd imagine having all of my records in one place will be really helpful when we start trying for a kidlet, too.

Thanks again, Lizaveta, and I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions for you soon!

SweetErika said:

Oh, thank you so much...It's all really helpful!

Weschler's book is on the way, so I'll be working on learning the basics for awhile. I feel a lot more comfortable knowing the BBT is such a good backup. I decided on the symptothermal method a few days ago because I'm not willing to rely on my mucous- producing or -reading skills alone for contraception...it's just too risky right now. It's great to hear confirmation of that choice and also that confusion will be normal and my BBT will help me figure the real deal out.

I was also wondering about charting; while I've found good charts (here are printable charts from the Ovusoft site), I was curious about the software. I think I'm going to download Ovusoft and start using the free trial. I'd imagine having all of my records in one place will be really helpful when we start trying for a kidlet, too.

Thanks again, Lizaveta, and I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions for you soon!

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Anytime, sweetie!

You can chart on paper without the software just fine; I just like that the software knows FAM even better than I do. It counts my days for me and tells me when it thinks I'm fertile, when it thinks I've ovulated and when I my fertile period is over. It can be wrong, so you should still know the method inside and out before you rely on it, and the calculations are only as good as the information you enter into it. But it's been a wonderful tool for me, especially when your fertility signs are not as clear as you would like.

The book is fantastic; though the author sometimes gets "definitive" when she should lay off a little bit, she also includes some important caveats about what your fertility signs are revealing. For instance, with both cervical fluid/position and your temps, ovulation is STILL a +/- three-day proposition: you can have a complete fluid dryup and a distinct temp rise, but still not ovulate for another day or so! Good information to have if you're TTA.

Feel free to PM me anytime!

I have absolutely nothing of value to add to the content, but just wanted to poke my head in and say that this thread is exemplary of the coolest thing about Lit: the degree of openness and sharing of valuable information among members.

Best wishes to both SweetErika and TBK as they explore this new world from opposite sides of the globe.

SweetErika said:

I obviously have a lot of research and learning to do still, but wondered if not taking my BBT the first two days of this cycle will affect my charting for the entire month. Like I said, we'll use condoms this month, but I don't want to screw up the trial run too much. Generally, the BBT stays about the same through your period, correct?

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I meant to answer this earlier, sorry - no, it isn't a huge deal to miss your first temp or two.

The important temps are the six before the rise (indicating ovulation) and the three after, but until you have a great handle on both the method and your body, it's best to chart as many temps as you possibly can.

SweetErika said:

I think I was confused by the "NO GENITAL CONTACT" deal...they make it seem like touching and masturbation would render charting useless. I also made the mistake of thinking the (Billings) Ovulation Method was the science the religious methods like Creighton were based off of. Apparently Billings was Catholic too, and that's why it promotes no contact and complete abstinence.

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Yeah see I'll be honest I haven't read anythign on the Billings method, but the inference from the Creighton material was that it was based ont eh Billings method. I took that to mean the Billings method was a purely scientific approach.

SweetErika said:

The ONLY difference is FAM allows people to choose between using a barrier method or masturbation and abstinence during the 'unsafe' periods. I know condoms and masturbation are Catholic no-nos, but would think the Church would happy even non-Catholics are using a safe, effective method that promotes intimacy and marriage, that works well for them. Apparently not.

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Tough situation really. By the tenets of the church they couldn't advocate anything that violates catholic teachings, even if it is for non-catholics. Not to mention when the church tries to advocate anything for the secular society, they get blasted for trying to push their views on non-catholics. I guess I really can't fault that wording in this situation.

SweetErika said:

Stace, I agree it's dangerous to put crappy info out there and not specify FA/NFP is only to be used by monogamous couples in LTRs and fail to educate on STI protection and abstinence. I can see TBK's point about it being a NFP site, but if they're going to talk about condoms and HIV, other methods of BC, and things like abortion, they have an obligation to give correct information and specify who should be learning it. Overall, I'm just fed up with the misinformation and ridiculous ideas these organizations spout...they're so caught up in being righteous that they miss the boat on common sense and helping people.

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Oh I totally agree, Erika. I'll admit I didn't look super deep into that particular site because right away I was rolling my eyes. "so caught up in being righteous"? That's a great description. When I referred to it just being an NFP site I was actually talking about the Creighton Method site, not the ome you linked to.

I totally agree with your point of view here, I really do, and I'm not trying to defend any of these sites. I personally think that a site that discusses Catholic beliefs should proclaim that, proudly in fact. You are right, religious sites that give wrong information aren't just irresponsible, they are lying, IE committing a sin themselves? Say that condoms are wrong, but don't say they're less than 50% effective. One is an opinion or belief, the other is misinformation.

This is a tough issue for me, as I have discussed before. I take the view that if you are already having sex with multiple partners out of wedlock, then you are committing a sin, so why not use a condom? What flaerghasts me is these Catholic teens who will have sex freely, but won't use condoms because that's a sin. Huh? Um, someone needs to change they way they talk to their kids. But that's another topic entirely.

What I think the problem is right now is that there just aren't enough "secular" sites for NFP. Part of that might be because as I said, this is still viewed as a primarily catholic method. I'd love to see it change because I think there are some awesome benefits to it that have nothing to do with religion. That's why I'm so jaxxed about Erika starting this thread.

Lizaveta, great info! Really cool! I think that once we start seeing regular cycles with my wife that we'll start temping as well. The more the merrier, right?

Well here's an update on OUR situation. We wound up making our meeting tonight, our first 1 on 1 meeting with our Fertily Care Practitioner. This was really helpful. It was funny to hear her say a lot of this stuff didn't apply to use for various reasons, but I'm eagerly awaiting the discussion about the "no genital contact" part where I get to ask about our "options".

Seriously though, she went through our chart, which we thought we were doing wrong, only to find out we were on the right track. My wife's chart, not to mention her system, is totally screwed! This is gonna be a loooooooooong road to be sure, and it will probably be months before we can get her cycling normally. We were asked if we were ready to stick this out for the long term, meaning a year or more. We were of course hoping for a much shorter time frame than that, but when you have a period every 3 months, what do you expect?

So while it was a bit discouraging there, it was really reassuring to learn that we were in fact making correct observations. My wife and I had a great discussion on the ride home and we're both ready to wait it out. It's going to require some serious lifestyle changes, but in the end we'll both be healthier and happier.

Oh and the good news! She told us that even though they say abstain for a month, that it wouldn't do us any good. She said that in our situation, go ahead and have sex. YAAAAAAYYYYY!!!!! Still it would have been nice if she'd told us that 3 weeks ago!!

TBKahuna123 said:

Lizaveta, great info! Really cool! I think that once we start seeing regular cycles with my wife that we'll start temping as well. The more the merrier, right?

Well here's an update on OUR situation. We wound up making our meeting tonight, our first 1 on 1 meeting with our Fertily Care Practitioner. This was really helpful. It was funny to hear her say a lot of this stuff didn't apply to use for various reasons, but I'm eagerly awaiting the discussion about the "no genital contact" part where I get to ask about our "options".

Seriously though, she went through our chart, which we thought we were doing wrong, only to find out we were on the right track. My wife's chart, not to mention her system, is totally screwed! This is gonna be a loooooooooong road to be sure, and it will probably be months before we can get her cycling normally. We were asked if we were ready to stick this out for the long term, meaning a year or more. We were of course hoping for a much shorter time frame than that, but when you have a period every 3 months, what do you expect?

So while it was a bit discouraging there, it was really reassuring to learn that we were in fact making correct observations. My wife and I had a great discussion on the ride home and we're both ready to wait it out. It's going to require some serious lifestyle changes, but in the end we'll both be healthier and happier.

Oh and the good news! She told us that even though they say abstain for a month, that it wouldn't do us any good. She said that in our situation, go ahead and have sex. YAAAAAAYYYYY!!!!! Still it would have been nice if she'd told us that 3 weeks ago!!

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I can see where the news might be discouraging - we're all supposed to get pregnant on the first try, aren't we? lol - but you and your wife already know so much more about her fertillity than the vast majority of people in the world, and you're learning how to use it to have a child. How freakin' awesome is that!!

I also think it's great that you HAVE a fertility care practitioner. I can't find anyone in my area that can help me with FAM; lots of Creighton and Billings, but no symptothermal. I did find one person who ONLY talked about temping - WRONG. Temping is just the confirmation step. It can't tell you WHEN you're going to ovulate, only that you already HAVE! Grrr!

I wanted to mention to you, too, that if you or your wife is interested, www.ovusoft.com has several users who don't temp, but use their other fertility signs only. There's also a fantastic forum there for PCOS, as well as at least one PCOS buddy group - Soul Cysters, I think they are.

TTC can be a long road for some of us, but charting all this information is so incredibly helpful. I figure the more I know, the better armed I am to face whatever may come. Rather than relying on REs to do all the work, I like knowing that I've taken at least some of my destiny into my own hands.

Oh, and there's a water test you can do to distinguish cervical fluid from arousal fluids and semen. Let me know if you need it.