24·Sept·2005 · "Janiece" · CharleyH

average gina said:

I preface this by saying I'm not good at critiquing.

I first felt this was the loss of someone under 30 dying too soon, until I saw "of who I am in you". I then thought the person you were speaking of was simply related to you. In the first line of the second strophe, familiarity shot through me, immediately identifying what this was about (which is actually hard for me, because I'm not a good reader of poetry--if that makes any sense), yet I didn't want the subject to be what I felt it was: grieving for one's mother.

I've attempted to write in so many poems what you have captured in this singular poem. The imagery is so clear to me that I feel like I'm in that space--like I'm experiencing the last time I saw my mom alive and the first time I saw her... afterward. Visually speaking, I felt like I was walking toward a picture from a distance. Each line brought me closer and clearer until I emotionally felt my mom's skin on my lips once again.

I liked the simplicity of the words used. The "plainness" if you will makes the poem more profound to me. The line, "my 'palatial' ocean" was a speed bump to me because I didn't understand it at first. I had to reread it because I don't think I understood the purpose of palatial being in quotes. The last strophe brought me to tears the most. "And I cried as I walked away to my future" choked me, making me remember my labored steps from the room in which my mother had lain. I will say that I do like the way you broke "from your pain/to your peace." into two separate lines instead of one, which, to me, would have weakened the point.

I apologize if this was too personal. I guess I wanted to make sure that you understood how I saw this. I keep looking at my other window at the last strophe. "I sighed as you..." That line is good. I'm thinkikng that the comma after face on the fourth line is not supposed to be there. If anything, maybe breaking that into two lines? Like...

I swept the sweat from your face
before leaving your place​

...maybe replacing "before" with "then"?

This was truly moving to me. I hope I saw what you wanted me to see.

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The Poets said:

Janiece

Your departure is too young, early, yet late
late, broken, too bright, I saw it all, saw too much.
As every pain crept over you, through you
fracturing more than you,
I saw your body crumble, mind stumble to a shadow
of what you were, of who I am in you.

I could hear my selfish voice scream, “NO, not yet!”
Knowing it should have been sooner, beautiful, dim
before your body was stolen, and thin
peacefully, not vicious,
not splitting, nor choking to suffer another forced breath
before your were humbled, tired, nauseous.('your' s/be 'you')

Though daughter of your womb, I found mine useless
to hold you or heal you, even lessen your pain
as yours bred me, fed me, held me in warmth
my ‘palatial’ ocean
could merely create, not reproduce nor replicate
your body, mine so limited, so helpless.

I want to touch you with my lips, bring you from sleep
want to shock you with strength, even jolt you awake
but I turn to my mirror, see you stare back
with no words, you contract
as your face builds up flames in the furnace, your home,
dust displaces your flesh, replaces your bones.

With a whisper, “I love you,” I recall you expressed.
Smothered by silence, I prolonged you a kiss,
knowing no more would we argue, laugh or debate
I swept the sweat from your face, before leaving your place.
And I cried as I walked away to my future
I sighed as you died from my time
breathed as you flew to your beauty
and smiled, as you moved,
from your pain
into peace.​

Some questions made by the author:

1) How do you interpret the poem? Is the meaning clear?

2) I am most concerned with imagery, other than the near rhymes, but want to find out your opinions on how the semiotics stand up, and how you interpret them. However all comments and perspectives are welcome.

Thank you all.

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wildsweetone said:

hi Charlie

i recalled your critique of 'Pay Up' and thought it'd never ever be able to critique something you wrote with anywhere near the skill you showed. but, i'm going to give you my small thoughts and you may do with them what you like.

if this poem is real, and it certainly 'feels' real, then i am sorry for your loss.

from the first stanza, i assumed you were talking about the demise of a relative, then it became obvious it was your mother. i loved the phrase 'palatial ocean' - but don't see the need for it to be in quote marks.

i am so glad that you did not go into some detailed description using the mirror, i waited for it and was surprised to see the 'face in flames' come through. it worked well, but i wonder if that image itself is perhaps a cliche...? - my interpretation is that your mother was cremated.

i like how you've sprinkled related words 'fracturing' and then 'crumble' , and then the rhyme of 'crumble' with 'stumble'. in some places the rhyme 'feels' overpowering - i.e. it gets in the way. - 'dim' and 'thin'.

i found the beginning too full of commas for ease of reading for me (remember i'm still new at this stuff - so it's likely my lack of skill showing) - it felt a little like a list.

i'm not sure if any of this helps, but it's some of my thoughts.

good luck with publication.

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CharleyH said:

I would enjoy more clarification on your thoughts regarding "dim and thin" as overpowering rhymes, since they are only near and not perfect? Also what do you mean about too many commas?

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Liar I will deal with later

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Liar said:

Interresting to see many people's perspectives. She sees overpowering rhymes, I see rhymes and rhythm that I'd like to bring forth. She sees too many commas, I see too few.

Should I worry?

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I could hear my selfish voice scream, “NO, not yet!”
Knowing it should have been sooner, beautiful, dim
before your body was stolen, and thin
peacefully, not vicious,
not splitting, nor choking to suffer another forced breath
before you[r] were humbled, tired, nauseous.

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Though daughter of your womb, I found mine useless
to hold you or heal you, even lessen your pain

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And I cried as I walked away to my future
I sighed as you died from my time

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breathed as you flew to your beauty
and smiled, as you moved,
from your pain
into peace

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The Poets said:

Janiece

Your departure is too young, early, yet late
late, broken, too bright, I saw it all, saw too much.
As every pain crept over you, through you
fracturing more than you,
I saw your body crumble, mind stumble to a shadow
of what you were, of who I am in you.

I could hear my selfish voice scream, “NO, not yet!”
Knowing it should have been sooner, beautiful, dim
before your body was stolen, and thin
peacefully, not vicious,
not splitting, nor choking to suffer another forced breath
before your were humbled, tired, nauseous.

Though daughter of your womb, I found mine useless
to hold you or heal you, even lessen your pain
as yours bred me, fed me, held me in warmth
my ‘palatial’ ocean
could merely create, not reproduce nor replicate
your body, mine so limited, so helpless.

I want to touch you with my lips, bring you from sleep
want to shock you with strength, even jolt you awake
but I turn to my mirror, see you stare back
with no words, you contract
as your face builds up flames in the furnace, your home,
dust displaces your flesh, replaces your bones.

With a whisper, “I love you,” I recall you expressed.
Smothered by silence, I prolonged you a kiss,
knowing no more would we argue, laugh or debate
I swept the sweat from your face, before leaving your place.
And I cried as I walked away to my future
I sighed as you died from my time
breathed as you flew to your beauty
and smiled, as you moved,
from your pain
into peace.​

Some questions made by the author:

1) How do you interpret the poem? Is the meaning clear?

2) I am most concerned with imagery, other than the near rhymes, but want to find out your opinions on how the semiotics stand up, and how you interpret them. However all comments and perspectives are welcome.

Thank you all.

Click to expand...

The Poets said:

Janiece

Your departure is too young, early, yet late
late, broken, too bright, I saw it all, saw too much.
As every pain crept over you, through you
fracturing more than you,
I saw your body crumble, mind stumble to a shadow
of what you were, of who I am in you.

I could hear my selfish voice scream, “NO, not yet!”
Knowing it should have been sooner, beautiful, dim
before your body was stolen, and thin
peacefully, not vicious,
not splitting, nor choking to suffer another forced breath
before your were humbled, tired, nauseous.

Though daughter of your womb, I found mine useless
to hold you or heal you, even lessen your pain
as yours bred me, fed me, held me in warmth
my ‘palatial’ ocean
could merely create, not reproduce nor replicate
your body, mine so limited, so helpless.

I want to touch you with my lips, bring you from sleep
want to shock you with strength, even jolt you awake
but I turn to my mirror, see you stare back
with no words, you contract
as your face builds up flames in the furnace, your home,
dust displaces your flesh, replaces your bones.

With a whisper, “I love you,” I recall you expressed.
Smothered by silence, I prolonged you a kiss,
knowing no more would we argue, laugh or debate
I swept the sweat from your face, before leaving your place.
And I cried as I walked away to my future
I sighed as you died from my time
breathed as you flew to your beauty
and smiled, as you moved,
from your pain
into peace.​

Some questions made by the author:

1) How do you interpret the poem? Is the meaning clear?

2) I am most concerned with imagery, other than the near rhymes, but want to find out your opinions on how the semiotics stand up, and how you interpret them. However all comments and perspectives are welcome.

Thank you all.

Click to expand...

The Poets said:

Janiece

Your departure is too young, early, yet late
late, broken, too bright, I saw it all, saw too much.
As every pain crept over you, through you
fracturing more than you,
I saw your body crumble, mind stumble to a shadow
of what you were, of who I am in you.

I could hear my selfish voice scream, “NO, not yet!”
Knowing it should have been sooner, beautiful, dim
before your body was stolen, and thin
peacefully, not vicious,
not splitting, nor choking to suffer another forced breath
before your were humbled, tired, nauseous.

Though daughter of your womb, I found mine useless
to hold you or heal you, even lessen your pain
as yours bred me, fed me, held me in warmth
my ‘palatial’ ocean
could merely create, not reproduce nor replicate
your body, mine so limited, so helpless.

I want to touch you with my lips, bring you from sleep
want to shock you with strength, even jolt you awake
but I turn to my mirror, see you stare back
with no words, you contract
as your face builds up flames in the furnace, your home,
dust displaces your flesh, replaces your bones.

With a whisper, “I love you,” I recall you expressed.
Smothered by silence, I prolonged you a kiss,
knowing no more would we argue, laugh or debate
I swept the sweat from your face, before leaving your place.
And I cried as I walked away to my future
I sighed as you died from my time
breathed as you flew to your beauty
and smiled, as you moved,
from your pain
into peace.​

Some questions made by the author:

1) How do you interpret the poem? Is the meaning clear?

2) I am most concerned with imagery, other than the near rhymes, but want to find out your opinions on how the semiotics stand up, and how you interpret them. However all comments and perspectives are welcome.

Thank you all.

Click to expand...

Liar said:

Interesting to see many people's perspectives. She sees overpowering rhymes, I see rhymes and rhythm that I'd like to bring forth. She sees too many commas, I see too few.

Should I worry?

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annaswirls said:

Since you want to publish this poem, I am going to just tell it like I see it-- as if I never knew you existed before reading this poem, as if I were an editor getting it in my mailbox.

First of all, I think your meaning was very clear. I think that some images are over-described and that you could cut this back and still get the same feel and message.

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It really cuts down the level of sophistication of the poem.

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Liar said:

Interresting to see many people's perspectives. She sees overpowering rhymes, I see rhymes and rhythm that I'd like to bring forth. She sees too many commas, I see too few.

Should I worry?

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CharleyH said:

what over-description? Not sure you pointed to it. Wondering.

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Your departure is too young, early, yet late
late, broken, too bright, I saw it all, saw too much.

Click to expand...

As every pain crept over you, through you
fracturing more than you,
I saw your body crumble, mind stumble to a shadow
of what you were, of who I am in you.

Click to expand...

I could hear my selfish voice scream, “NO, not yet!”
Knowing it should have been sooner, beautiful, dim
before your body was stolen, and thin
peacefully, not vicious,
not splitting, nor choking to suffer another forced breath
before your were humbled, tired, nauseous.

Click to expand...

Though daughter of your womb, I found mine useless
to hold you or heal you, even lessen your pain
as yours bred me, fed me, held me in warmth
my ‘palatial’ ocean
could merely create, not reproduce nor replicate
your body, mine so limited, so helpless.

Click to expand...

I want to touch you with my lips, bring you from sleep
want to shock you with strength, even jolt you awake
but I turn to my mirror, see you stare back
with no words, you contract
as your face builds up flames in the furnace, your home,
dust displaces your flesh, replaces your bones.

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Intriguing - so tell me how? What rhyming? Not sure I did end rhymes? I think I attempted near rhymes.

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And I cried as I walked away to my future
I sighed as you died from my time

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how does it not play into dichotomy and off beat?

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this rhyming is way too much, too typical, too expected. It really cuts down the level of sophistication of the poem. When I taught 8th grade, the students went through a poetry unit. Many of the poems were about dead grandmothers, as it was an experience many of the students had been through. I have sat through so many poems on this subject, and while the rest of your poem rises way above what they put out, this line put me right there in the audience of poetry night

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What are the images do you get? Without my telling you

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The images I got were mainly concrete and right out described. A mother dying, a daughter watching and taking it all in, trying to work out what to do, sees part of herself dying as well.

The images I got were your literal descriptions--
body crumble,
forced breath
etc etc.


I did not get a vivid image of the flames. Maybe because my mind has gone there so many times in my own experience, I do not want to go there again. Maybe because, although I am sure she was a deep and interesting character, I did not feel like I got to know her in the poem, and I did not have a face of a familiar person I wanted to put into the poem.

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Thanks Anna, you are great!

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Liar said:

Charley, let me first off answer your first question with a heck yes, the meaning is clear. (at least I think it is) The grief and frustration of being powerless in the face of deterioration and loss. It’s a topic where I have nothing to contribute from own experiences, so I leave commenting on the content to others...

…and head on to form. I am a major semiotics fetishist. Or even more, a prosodics freak. I can’t read a text like this without falling into the rhythm and melody of it. There is a steady beat through most of the poem, which aids very well in grinding in the emotional impact of it in me as a reader.

But here and there, I find that it is stumbling, where another word, or the omission of a ornamental morpheme, would enhance the flow. I have marked those red with an (explanation) after.

Bear in mind that this is only how yours truly read the text, there might be dialectal differences that makes the rhythm different for me than you. Plus, I’m not English speaking, so I might have odd influences. Just take a peek at them and see what you think.

Also, I noticed a couple of places that I didn’t quite understand what the sentence you wrote means…or where I think you go against the, shall we say, decorum of the rest of the poem. I’ve mark them blue.


-------------------------

Janiece

Your departure (I don’t know… I think this is saying too much too early in the poem. The imagery grows clear anyway.) is too young, early, yet late
late (“yet late late” I don’t get it. If it’s a new series of notions on the new line, I suggest you make it a new sentence. “Late, broken, too bright.”), broken, too bright, I saw it all, saw (for rhytm symmetry, add an “I” to the second “saw”) too much.
As (doesn’t this belong to the sentence above, with a comma instead of a new sentence?) every pain crept over you, through you *
fracturing more than you,
I saw your body crumble, mind stumble to a shadow
of what you were, of who I am in you.

I could hear my selfish voice scream, “NO, not yet!”
Knowing (somehow it seems odd that it’s a new sentence) it should have been sooner, beautiful, dim *
before your body was stolen, and thin *
peacefully, not vicious, (if you change “peacefully” to “peaceful”, it fits better with the rest)
not splitting, nor choking to suffer another forced breath
before your were humbled, tired, nauseous. (Maybe it’s just me, but I think “humbled” is the strongest of the three, and it would be more of an impact if it was last)

Though (I don’t think you need “though” there. It’s self explained anyway, and it slows down the flw there.) daughter of your womb, I found mine useless
to hold you or heal you, even lessen your pain (if you omit “or” and “even” you get a really neat grouping there, matching the one of the line below)
as yours bred me, fed me, held me in warmth *
my ‘palatial’ ocean
could merely create, not reproduce nor replicate
your body, mine so limited, so helpless.

I want to touch you with my lips (skip “my” and it has the same flow as "bring you from sleep"), bring you from sleep *
want to shock you with strength, even jolt you awake *
but I turn to my mirror, I see you stare back
with no words, you contract
as your face builds up flames in the furnace, your home,
dust displaces your flesh, replaces your bones. (I might even try to add a word before “replaces”. The same way that “dust displaces”)

With a whisper, “I love you,” I recall you expressed.
Smothered by silence, I prolonged you a kiss,
knowing no more would we argue (Peculiar order of words… “knowing no more” made me think the sentence was going to go in another direction. I think it can be rephrased.), laugh or debate
I swept the sweat from your face, before leaving your place.
And I cried as I walked away to my future *
I sighed as you died from my time
breathed as you flew to your beauty
and smiled, as you moved,
from your pain
into peace.

* = anal retentive question: shouldn’t there be a comma on those places?

-------------------------



Then there is this whole last paragraph. It’s good, but it has a totally different tempo, voice and language than the rest of the poem. I was emotionally “in” the poem up until then, but there I felt like I got thrown into it’s neighbor’s back yard. Especially in the last five lines.

I think one of the reasons is that it has keywords that I associate with clichés, although they are actually quite called for there. The trio of “cried, sighed, died” as well as the quartet of “breath, beauty, pain, peace” triggers that reaction in me. I think it might be worth it trying to find alternative phrasing.


Phew. That's all. It's a strong poem that proves that you don't have to sound exotic to have a unique voice. I hope this helps you tweak the flow, and that it doesn't weaken what you have there.

g'luck!

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SeattleRain said:

I am sure you had very good reasons to include everything you did in this poem.
It felt too drawn out for my interest.




This takes me here then there then back again... so many jumps in one sentence.




you have fracturing-- then crumbling
you have "more than you" and then "who I am in you" which also tells us "more than you" You say it twice






here you have a lot of descriptive words, they are all important to your experience, but they are so close together and hard to get all at once? I don't know if I am making sense here, but too much.

beautiful, dim, thin, peaceful, vicious, splitting, choking, suffer, humble, tired, nauseous

that's a lot of description for a sentence.

the most important descriptions in that paragraph, the ones that stuck with me were the forced breath (it was not just a descriptive word, it was an Action that put an image in my mind, and filled in other descriptions-- ones that come to mind when imagining a person struggling for air.






if you have so helpless, you do not need so limited, they go together



here you bring her from sleep with touch and jolt
shock you with my strength and touch with lips do the job.

I know what you mean in the flames... as I said, could not actually see it

We do not write or read poetry in the same way. I know that many people enjoy more prosey poetry, and that you are very into the language. I prefer a more condensed picture, concentrated. I do not think you should change the poem to suit my taste, by any means. I have pointed out many suggestions, knowing that if all were followed it might go to far.






Your near rhymes were fine.


This is the rhyme that I was referring to in the initial crit:










Maybe it does, these are not things I generally notice in a poem. see below.












You are welcome, I hope I clarified things for you.

damn I am signed on as seattle.

ah

Jennifer

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annaswirls said:

Since you want to publish this poem, I am going to just tell it like I see it-- as if I never knew you existed before reading this poem, as if I were an editor getting it in my mailbox.

First of all, I think your meaning was very clear. I think that some images are over-described and that you could cut this back and still get the same feel and message.

A few specifics:



I think it is an interesting twist, the desire to take a mother inside for nurturing, to return the gift. I think that the word "though" implies that one might think that this was possible, as a child of the woman who suffers. Even though the two women are tied in this way, I do not think that it would be expected.

Something like this (not for your poem, just an example of what I mean)

though a nurse, I could not offer a healing touch.-- would make sense. I hope I am.




this rhyming is way too much, too typical, too expected. It really cuts down the level of sophistication of the poem. When I taught 8th grade, the students went through a poetry unit. Many of the poems were about dead grandmothers, as it was an experience many of the students had been through. I have sat through so many poems on this subject, and while the rest of your poem rises way above what they put out, this line put me right there in the audience of poetry night



this is lovely-- a great ending that ties it all together.... you take the reader through many jolts and tough images to walk through, and here at the end you bring us back to a level of comfort to be able to tie the poem up and want to carry it along with us.

You are a brave woman for putting such a personal poem up for review. I could never do it, of course, I don't think I could even write one like this at all.

I hope you find something helpful in this review.

and now I sleeeep....

as

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Tzara said:

This is a tough one to comment on.

All of my comments here assume that this is a poem about your mother's death. Internally the poem implies that. (Yes, yes, the narrator's mother, but let's not kid ourselves, OK?)

I do not wish to make any comments that seem to slight your grief about that event. My father recently went through quite serious surgery and, though he now seems to be OK, it was a bit dicey for a while. Grief is a very personal and very intense experience, so I have no wish to denigrate your feelings.

Given that, let me try and comment on your poem.

First off: It sounds really well. I've read it several times out loud and it sounds cohesive and euphonal to me. That is always something important to me for poems.

Onto semantics (not, dear my God, semiotics. If semiotic analysis is what you're looking for, please stop reading now. Not something I can proffer.):

Title: Janiece -- I assume this was your mother's name, or the name you care to give to the mother in the poem. I see problems with this. For one, it personalizes the poem way too much. Should I, who never knew Janiece, care that much about her death? It is, at least in my part of the world, an odd name. Not a bad thing, but it doesn't help in universalizing the poem's narrative. Also, as a title, it doesn't tell me anything about the poem or what the poem is about.

"Your departure is too young..." seems cliché. Kind of "the good die young." Everyone who is loved dies too young for those who love them.

"early, yet late/late, broken, too bright. I saw it all, saw too much." This sounds to my ear exceptionally well, but I am unclear as to what you mean. How does this advance the meaning of the poem?

"..fracturing more than you..." I find this a puzzling phrase.

"I could hear my selfish voice scream, 'NO, not yet!'" I would perhaps use italics for emphasis rather than caps. I dislike "scream," which almost always seems overwrought to me, though, of course, trust your feelings on that.

"Knowing it should have... humbled, tired, nauseous." Pretty good, I think. Especially "before your body was stolen and thin" which I think is quite good. Note, though the typo "before your were humbled" should be "before you were humbled".

"my 'palatial' ocean" OK, held in warmth and safety in the amniotic fluid, but why "palatial" and why in quotes?

"I want to touch you with my lips... replaces your bones" I kind of like this strophe but find the meaning obscure, especially the "as your face builds up flames in the furnace, your home" part. That's either just zooming over my head or you haven't been clear.

"With a whisper, 'I love you,' I recall you expressed/Smothered by silence, I prolonged you a kiss" It would perhaps be better to put "I love you" in italics rather than quotes. This phrase generally seems too poetical to me.

"And I cried as I walked away to my future/I sighed as you died from my time" Sorry. Again, this seems clichéd to me. And "sighed as you died" seems banal. Not, of course, personally, but poetically.

Well.

Charley, if you've read this far and don't hate me, I think the biggest problem with the poem as art is that I'm not sure it is telling me anything new about death or how we confront death or even how we as survivors go about dealing with the death of one's parent. Art universalizes experience--it aids us in knowing what life is and how to deal with it. (Yep, this ain't me, just the OpinionMeter is typing now.) Your poem, however affecting (and as I said, I just went through almost losing my father), does not to me in its present form make the experience of death and survival universal or meaningful. Sad, yes. Poignant, yes. Teach me anything about it?

Unfortunately, no.

But, you know, I'm a complete dimwit as regards poetry, so don't rely on my opinion.

You have the basis of a very strong poem--a heartfelt, meaningful experience. The language sounds well.

Good luck and, sweetheart, ignore me if you will.

I am a crank and an incompetent one at that.

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Nickie Smiles said:

I sat here for 10 minutes before I touched the keyboard. Is the meaning clear, you ask? Yes, and it brought me to tears. I know death - believe me, I know death. - sigh -

The poem makes me want to reach out and give you a hug. Gosh! I think I need a hug myself. I have been taken back, and I'll admit, it wasn't easy. You have definitely drawn this reader in 100%, and I would look at this as darn close to being published work. THIS was so REAL!!

There's only a few problems that I see that are minor with the poem, but think you should definitely fix them before sending it out to be published. One thing I've experienced in publishing is some magazines can be very picky regarding punctuation, grammar, and huge letters in the middle of a poem. I know the "huge letters" sounds funny, but some people do some real weird stuff.

Anyway, I couldn't help but play with the poem. Sorry, bad word choice, but I think you know what I mean. I hope this helps.


Your departure is too young, early, yet late
late, broken, too bright, I saw it all, saw too much.

Your departure is too young, early, yet, late,
broken, too bright, I saw it all, and saw too much.
(I added a comma after "yet" which would be correct. I also added the word "and" before "saw". To make it a complete sentence. I believe it should be there. I wondered why you added an extra "late" to the above line. I don't feel it's needed. Perhaps, I got a little confused reading. I'm not sure. Maybe you could fill me in.

As every pain crept over you, through you
fracturing more than you,
I saw your body crumble, mind stumble to a shadow
of what you were, of who I am in you.
As every pain crept over you, through you, (comma?)
fracturing more than you,

I could hear my selfish voice scream, “NO, not yet!”
Knowing it should have been sooner, beautiful, dim
before your body was stolen, and thin
peacefully, not vicious,
not splitting, nor choking to suffer another forced breath
before your were humbled, tired, nauseous.
I could hear my selfish voice scream, "No, not yet!"
I would lowercase "NO" – you made your point with the exclamation point. It's pain. I felt it! "Selfish"- I like the word there.

Though daughter of your womb, I found mine useless
to hold you or heal you, even lessen your pain
as yours bred me, fed me, held me in warmth
my ‘palatial’ ocean
could merely create, not reproduce nor replicate
your body, mine so limited, so helpless.
to hold or heal you, even lessen your pain (taking out the extra "you")

my palatial ocean (Italic maybe?)

I want to touch you with my lips, bring you from sleep
want to shock you with strength, even jolt you awake
but I turn to my mirror, see you stare back
with no words, you contract
as your face builds up flames in the furnace, your home,
dust displaces your flesh, replaces your bones.

I want to touch you with my lips, and bring you from sleep.
I want to shock you with strength; even jolt you awake,
but I turn to my mirror, and see you stare back.
With no words, you contract,
as your face builds up flames in the furnace, your home,
dust displaces your flesh, and bones.
(I think you can tell what I did here with the punct. and deleting some words as well as adding.)

With a whisper, “I love you,” I recall you expressed.
Smothered by silence, I prolonged you a kiss,
knowing no more would we argue, laugh or debate
I swept the sweat from your face, before leaving your place.
And I cried as I walked away to my future
I sighed as you died from my time
breathed as you flew to your beauty
and smiled, as you moved,
from your pain
into peace.

With a whisper, "I love you," I recall you expressed.
Smothered by silence, I prolonged you a kiss (no comma)
knowing no more we'd argue, laugh or debate. (Add period. Would to we'd)

I swept the sweat from your face before leaving your place,
(one comma at the end)

and I cried as I walked away to my future. (period)
I sighed as you died from my time, (comma)
breathed as you flew to your beauty
and smiled, as you moved (no comma after "moved")
from your pain
into peace.

Your stanzas were fine. I only broke up some lines so you could read easier.

Of course, all my editing is up to you if you choose to change it. I enjoy helping when I can. Good luck with everything!

((hugs)))

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CharleyH said:

Nikki, thank you, I am happy the poem touched you. I'm also ecstatic that you gave advice and your reworking perhaps touches something in both of us, thank you again, beautiful.

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Nickie Smiles said:

You're very welcome.

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Bring you from sleep and shock you awake are two literary references from my little girl mind. To kiss one awake is a fairy tale that you know will never happen, I am not a prince. To jolt you awake is a specific reference, however subtle to Frankenstien, and I am not an alchemist, my body is limited, especially toward my mother, any mother who read those tales.

Someone in the thread mentiond a grade 8 rhyme as an English teacher? She never got those references though. Its ok, I want to see your minds working, not mine.

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Its ok, I want to see your minds working, not mine.

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annaswirls said:

. . .
if I mention a red rose in a poem, I would not expect a reviewer to write out all of the implications of the color or the flower...the love and the passion, the blood and thorns yadda Adda. And unless it was alluded to, would not expect them to find a specific reference to a red rose from say Robert Burns when so many have used the same meaning that it loses power as a single reference.

I do not think that people did not mention these references because they did not read the poem right, but perhaps because they were general images.

As far as analyzing poetry, I think it is often over-done. I have had people tell me things that my poetry means and they are reading way too much into it. You can take any line and make guesses about references and meanings.

Your responses and questioning of the reader (ie see if you can find my references without my telling you ) give the impression that you put the poem here as some sort of test of the reader... some sort of seek and find game where a critic should feel compelled to analyze every image? But it is your poem and you are of course free to ask the critic whatever you wish, but in the end, it is their job to give a critique of what they see is important to the improvement of your poem, not to play the find the reference game.

I hope this was said tongue in cheek?

You and I approach writing poetry from very different angles, or at least we view readers differently.

What I said was the sigh, cry, die rhymes are very popular with the 8th graders that I taught. They are. Period. I was not saying your whole poem was on their level, but I wanted you to know that this was the impression it gave. Take it as you wish. I am sure much older and more experienced writers have used them as well.

I think it is great that you planned out and included these references, but it is rude to tell people that they did not really read your poem because they did not mention each of the references you put in with such rapid progression.

I understand why you want to defend your poem and that you are proud of the work you put into it and you should be.

All the best,

Seattle/anna

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annaswirls said:

As far as analyzing poetry, I think it is often over-done. I have had people tell me things that my poetry means and they are reading way too much into it. You can take any line and make guesses about references and meanings.

Your responses and questioning of the reader (ie see if you can find my references without my telling you ) give the impression that you put the poem here as some sort of test of the reader... some sort of seek and find game where a critic should feel compelled to analyze every image? But it is your poem and you are of course free to ask the critic whatever you wish, but in the end, it is their job to give a critique of what they see is important to the improvement of your poem, not to play the find the reference game.

I hope this was said tongue in cheek?

You and I approach writing poetry from very different angles, or at least we view readers differently.

I understand why you want to defend your poem and that you are proud of the work you put into it and you should be.

All the best,

Seattle/anna

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