Advice Needed

Hello everyone.. Thanks for looking in on this thread and I would appreciate it if some of you left advice too..
This problem may sound a little selfish but that totally isn't the case.
Me and my girlfriend have been together nearly four years. We are still as much in love as we were when we first started going out and everything in the relationship is fine... except our sex lives. I have quite a high sex drive but my girlfriend doesn't. If i had my way we would be having sex 2 or 3 times a day but usually its more like twice a week. Initially i wasnt so bothered by this but now I feel incredibly different about this. As well as lack of sex, when we do actually have sex it seems very systematic and boring. you could almost set your watch by it. Now I admit, I'm not the best screw in the world, but it seems as tho my girlfriend is only doing it to ensure I don't get too sexually deprived and frustrated. It also seems like she has no confidence when it comes to sex and doesn't really make much effort in the bedroom. I think generally that she is not that sexual a person and she has no sex drive at all (she is on a contraceptive injection which might have something to do with this). I have spoken to a few people about our problems and when I told them that she hardly ever played with herself, they all seemed a little surprised by this. She has bought a vibe but it has not been used more than 10 times and our relationship was long distance for 2 yrs and she still didnt touch herself when we were apart. I asked her if it was to do with me and she said I was as "sexy as ever" so I dont think Im the problem, I think it may be a lot deeper and I'm desperate to help in any way I can.

All of this frustrates me a lot as I still fancy her to bits and wanna have marathon hot and horny sex sessions every now and again. I am only 22 and in my sexual prime and I feel as though I am missing out. I am also very jealous of other couples and their healthy sex lives. Another way I felt I have missed out is that she is the only girl I have ever been with and I always wonder what it would be like to sleep with a few other people but I love my girlfriend alot and I feel like she is the only girl for me. I currently get my kicks from this website and various sources of porn as I could never cheat on my girlfriend with someone else.

I thought that our relationship was strong but this is beginning to push us apart. Is this a shallow reason for ending a four year relationship and would this be the right thing to do or does anyone have any advice they could offer us so we can have a fun and healthy sex life.

Thank you for your patience to read this (i rambled a bit but i think i got the message across) and any advice is greatly appreciated..

try talking to her about it outside of the bedroom. Tell her how you are feeling and that you would like to find out what's going on with her to help her. If you both think it might be the injection she's getting, than go talk to her doctor about it. There could be a zillion different reasons for her behaving like this, be it consciously, physically, or subconsciously.

First, I agree with W&U...you need to share your feelings and see what you can work out together. If she doesn't realize there's a problem (or the extent of it), you can't expect it to improve. One of the solutions may be to get to the doctor together asap and try another form of birth control. Depo is notorious for causing libido problems and other side effects, much more so than the pill or patch (though those can do the same). Before going to the doc, visit http://www.plannedparenthood.org together and check out all of your options, along with the pros and cons of each method. I have never been on Depo, but I've heard it can take up to a year for your body to return to normal after the last shot, so you may or may not get quick results.

It sounds like you have several main issues, all of which are valid: a feeling of missing out and fear of doing so forever; not enough frequency; not as exciting/spontaneous/etc. as you'd like; feeling like she's not into it and/or you (rejection). I don't think you're blowing any of this out of proportion, and it's great that you're taking an honest look at your relationship now. If you've been reading these boards, I'm sure you've seen the posts about how destructive and miserable differing libidos can be, so you have every reason to be concerned about where this may lead. Just don't do anything like make more of a commitment before this is resolved. Counseling might be a good way to deal with this as well.

She may never want the same amount of sex you do, so you may have to make some concessions. One idea might be to focus on the quality instead...maybe she just doesn't know much or hasn't found something that really gets her going yet (remember most women don't come into their own sexually until later in life). Suggest reading stories and browsing Lit together...that alone opened our communication and completely revamped our sex life.

This thread from The Blank Manual sounds a lot like your situation and has great advice and ideas from some of the wisest members of Lit. Definitely worth reading.

You sound like an intelligent, caring guy, and I'm sure everything will work out for the best.

Thank you so far

Thank you for commenting on this issue.. and for your comments erika..

We have spoken about this and she just broke down crying.. I felt so bad about it but It was something I had to say..

The sex has never been amazing and it is nearly always initiated by me, which is a problem as one of my turn ons is girls leading the way sometimes. Its hard to explain but she just seems clumsy and a little clueless in the bedroom.. ive tried telling her things etc and then its ok but it then goes back to the routine like sex.
The depo might be an issue but even when she wasnt on it, it has never been that amazing. I just long for nights of hot, passionate sex and spontaneous and even kinky sex too but she is never game for new ideas.. She even gets scared when she O's as she says it was too intense. I think she just isnt that sexual a person and her confidence is very low and we need to find a way to bring her out of it..

naxalite0906 said:

Thank you for commenting on this issue.. and for your comments erika..

We have spoken about this and she just broke down crying.. I felt so bad about it but It was something I had to say..

The sex has never been amazing and it is nearly always initiated by me, which is a problem as one of my turn ons is girls leading the way sometimes. Its hard to explain but she just seems clumsy and a little clueless in the bedroom.. ive tried telling her things etc and then its ok but it then goes back to the routine like sex.
The depo might be an issue but even when she wasnt on it, it has never been that amazing. I just long for nights of hot, passionate sex and spontaneous and even kinky sex too but she is never game for new ideas.. She even gets scared when she O's as she says it was too intense. I think she just isnt that sexual a person and her confidence is very low and we need to find a way to bring her out of it..

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I really cant speculate too much into what's going on. But, maybe there is something from the way she was raised that has an influence on her like that. I know that happens with some women. But then again, maybe something happened to her in the past where she feels like sex just isnt supposed to be enjoyable. Seriously, talk to her. And take Erika's advice and consider seeing a counselor about this. A third neutral party may be able to help you even more than you think.

naxalite0906 said:

Thank you for commenting on this issue.. and for your comments erika..

We have spoken about this and she just broke down crying.. I felt so bad about it but It was something I had to say..

The sex has never been amazing and it is nearly always initiated by me, which is a problem as one of my turn ons is girls leading the way sometimes. Its hard to explain but she just seems clumsy and a little clueless in the bedroom.. ive tried telling her things etc and then its ok but it then goes back to the routine like sex.
The depo might be an issue but even when she wasnt on it, it has never been that amazing. I just long for nights of hot, passionate sex and spontaneous and even kinky sex too but she is never game for new ideas.. She even gets scared when she O's as she says it was too intense. I think she just isnt that sexual a person and her confidence is very low and we need to find a way to bring her out of it..

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Was she raised with a negative view of sex? How about past traumas?

If you're having that much trouble communicating, you probably need some professional help. Simply tell her you'd like to see a counselor so you can learn how to deal with things more effectively. You should also try to boost her self-esteem and confidence...maybe you could suggest focusing on going back to making out and learning about eachother, then give lots of positive feedback. The real issue is not sex though, it's the fact that you can't have conversations without getting upset and work together to make it better, if that makes sense.

The common thread -- and it is absolutely valid -- communication. Sometimes you need a facilitator to accomplish this (called counseling) and sometimes not. The issue is to be revealed in the discussion. Once you both have a perception (different from an understanding) of what the issue might be -- you can work together to take positive action.

Then the most important thing to do is to continue communicating. Don't assume that once the problem is solved (or resolved) that you should close off that avenue. The wonders of words and non-verbal communication are the keys to the success of any relationship from one-night-stand to one-life-together.

That's 4 Cents worth but it'll only run you 2.

thanks again

I dont think communication is the main problem here as we do talk about it.. We are just struggling for ways to change it round.. Every time we do talk she just gets frustrated and annoyed at herself. This i think is wrong as she needs to sort it for herself, not just for me.
As far as I know she used to be very confident. Sexually, i dont know much about her background but I know there was one guy she slept with once before me. Nothing that has been traumatic.
as i said i think it boils down to boosting her libido and confidence as everything else about our relationship is as strong as ever.
Please continue with your responses as they have been very interesting and have given me some ideas. At the moment her first step has been to arrange to see her GP just for some general advice.

Thanks for the pm too erika

Its between the ears...its always between the ears.

Naxlite Quote: "I am only 22 and in my sexual prime..." Hmmm....bet thats a clue. LOL...Well enjoy this prime while its here because you got at least a good 30 more primes ahead of you and if you stay in shape and continue your sexual education you got at least 60 more primes.

No one really ever teaches us about sex. We listen to friends, watch movies, look a porn, read a dirty story or two yet seldom does someone older and wiser step up to help us learn the truth. Everyone thinks that sex or love making is simple and that they know it all from what they heard on the playground or read in Cosmo. Look at yourself now compared to 16 or 18 or 20 and remember you thought you knew it all then too.

There is nothing wrong with your girlfriend. Shes not undersexed or a low drive and if you approach this issue like she is the problem than you are doomed to failure. Take a different approach. Assume both of you dont know much about this sex and love game. Work together to understand yourselves and your bodies. Don't make it her issue. Years from now you will look back and think how stupid you were now and how little you understood. Its ok, everyone does it. Once you think you are good at sex or in your prime is when you start becoming boring and same ol same old. I know you have different desires right now and the sexual encounter frequency has been not good for a while but dont make it her fault that you accepted mediocrity. Help her improve by improving with her. Join her on this journey in life. Its really great and a partnership like you two seem to possibly want to have needs to be cherished and worked on together.

Someone pointed out about reading stories. They will in time help your mind open up and see the mental aspect of great sex. Great sex is between your ears and not your legs. Her issue is just about understanding what is between her ears. Frankly you need to keep understanding yours too. You have and will change, dont stop learning about yourself. I doubt young adults can fully appreciate that sex is 90% mental. Its so new to us when we are young and there are so many inputs that we cant see the forest for the trees. Help each other learn. Read the various books on sex in the book store or library. Discuss what turns you on and why. Open up your private self and thoughts. Help her and you will help both of you.

Drugs may effect physical aspects of how our bodies respond to stimuli such as orgasms or getting wet but its your thoughts that count. The way she thinks about sex was influenced by how she was raised, morals, certain events in her life, certain traumas she may have experienced and a whole lot of disinformation. As parents we try and teach but as children we cant listen. Shes not better or worse than anyone else, just different. Everyone is different. Just dont blame drugs or her past. We can learn and change. Exploring is educational, can be fun and sometimes downright erotic.

You have taken a admirable step by asking for help. You seem to be communicating. Now prove you are not just a good guy but a great man and join her in the search for knowledge and pleasure. It much easier to make changes side by side than one pushing or pulling the other.

Im no better than anyone else here. God made us of the same dust afterall. At 22 I was damn good at sex. I got better many years but not all. Afterall Im just like you and sometimes think I knew it all. At 50 Im still damn good but if I only knew then what I do now then damn good wouldnt be a good enough description.

Dont just look to improve your stamina or technique. Dont look to just explore new sex scenes or kinky adventures. Isnt it your thoughts afterall that make you want to broaden your horizons or that have stimulated your sexual appetite. Look to understand and explore your own mind and thoughts. Thats where the true potential for improvment lies. If its true that we only use about 10% of our brains and yet sex is 90% mental than realilze the potential improvment of just expanding the knowlege of ourselves by a 2 or 3%. Gives you almost a 20 or 30% improvment in your sexual pleasure.

Very, very well said, Mike. I hope I'll be able to express myself half as well as you do someday.

Naxalite, if you're smart, you'll take to heart and act on what Mike's said...he couldn't be more right.

@naxalite - I'd firstly echo the communication option. You may need to be a little more assertive (not aggressive!) in getting your girlfriend to talk about the sexual problems you're having. If she starts shying away, tell her that this is a serious problem that has been worrying you for a long time, and you need to discuss it properly with her, find out her reasons etc.

On another note, I kind of have the opposite problem to you - my girlfriend's sex drive is higher than mine, and it has caused some friction between us. I think this is to do with me having low self esteem, could be a reason with your GF? I've only recently started posting on Lit, and have a thread (in my sig) where I've been taking pictures of my GF and posting them up here. I was surprised when she agreed, and it's made us both very horny, my sex drive has shot up!!

I don't know if your GF will agree, but despite some initial nervousness, my GF now enjoys the photo sessions, and gets off on all the comments left by others. Her self confidence (despite the high sex drive) is also quite low, but it has encouraged her quite a lot! It maybe worth trying to get her to do similar? You could do it like I have, and avoid full facial pictures of her, in case she's worried about privacy.

Wow, mikeofokc, that's most EXCELLENT advice!

Sex is such an important part of a relationship, and it seems like so many people are uncomfortable talking about it with their partners. It shouldn't be that way. If you're comfortable enough to get naked with someone, you should be comfortable enough to talk to them about what you do when you're naked--preferably when you're NOT naked.

Communication, communication, communication--can't say it enough! I learned from the demise of my first marriage how important it is--and how devastating the lack thereof can be.

once again

I love this place! Everyone is so kind and helpful. Again ur comments are appreciated..

I agree that I am part of the problem and we both lack in experience. The thing I am unsure about is how to learn more with eachother and how to approach it.. I have listened to your ideas and I will look into some of them further but I know the idea of posting on here with her is a no go. She knows this post is on here and also thanks everyone for the comments, but she is very unsure about posting here herself, let alone taking pic's etc. I'm the opposite as there is nothing more I would love to do than share what me and my gf have with everyone but I think that idea is a dead end.

The other thing was to do with the sex drive issue.. The reason I said that was those were my gf's words. I know self esteem is as issue and this is something that we have talked about quite frankly with eachother. I have asked her over and over to let me show things or help her and she shy's away. What else could it be if it isn't a sex drive thing. As I also said, I don't think she is very sexual or understands her body. Would you suggest it is best to encourage her to discover more by herself or is it something I should always be a part of too. I know I need to be involved but is it a case of me needing to be involved all the time on this journey that we face.

Once again, you guys have been great. Obviously I am still very naive about the whole thing but I would really appreciate help and guidance in improving things.. especially as she has been my only lover and therefore my hands on experience (so to speak) has been limited.

naxalite0906 said:

The thing I am unsure about is how to learn more with eachother and how to approach it.

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You've definitely come to the right place! Lit is a good place to learn. Most of the people who post on the HT Forum are pretty well-informed, so if you have questions, ask away. If we can't help you, we might be able to suggest someone who can.

naxalite0906 said:

I know self esteem is as issue and this is something that we have talked about quite frankly with eachother.

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The self-esteem issue is HER issue, and because it spills over into the bedroom, it becomes an issue for both of you. I wish I could say that there's an easy fix. I've had a love-hate relationship with my body and my sexuality for years, and it's only now that I've gotten to the point where I'm starting to feel comfortable in my skin. You can (and should) be supportive, but, ultimately, she has to take responsibility for any changes in her self-image.

naxalite0906 said:

I have asked her over and over to let me show things or help her and she shy's away.

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That's likely connected with her self-confidence. It sounds as if even though she's had at least one other partner, she isn't that sexually experienced. You don't want to make her feel inadequate, even if you do so unintentionally. Don't pressure her; if you ask her "over and over" to try different things, she'll likely resist. When you do attempt to introduce something new, introduce one thing at a time (like A toy or A position), not several things at once. Give her a chance to get used to it before you bring in something else.

naxalite0906 said:

What else could it be if it isn't a sex drive thing.

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To be honest, I don't think it's a sex drive issue as much as a sex incompatibility issue. If you're still having sex twice a week, that's not so bad. Some people on Lit would love it if their SO's would have sex twice a MONTH. So in that respect, you're pretty lucky.

naxalite0906 said:

As I also said, I don't think she is very sexual or understands her body. Would you suggest it is best to encourage her to discover more by herself or is it something I should always be a part of too.

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Both. I would suggest, though, that at first, you encourage her to explore her body on her own. Give her a chance to learn for herself how her body works. Let her get comfortable with that; if she grew up with any taboos placed on masturbating, she may have a tough time allowing herself to enjoy this.

People aren't born knowing how to have sex; they learn by exploring on their own and with others. The learning process shouldn't be a painful one.

Good luck!

Some well spoken words of wisdom Eilan. I cant add much more

This sex drive issue is really misunderstood. Our sex drive is based on what is between our ears. Its based on our life experiences. All of our sex drives change. In fact some times you may be on overdrive and some times in reverse. Just because she chooses to stay in low gear because she cant see the road ahead doesnt mean anything is wrong. Just give her time to learn, develope and understand. Watch it though, once you let a woman behind the wheel you will understand why we should have never given them the right to vote or the keys to the chasity belt much less the garage door opener. I recommend a seat belt, crash helmet and viagra prescription.

The thing I am unsure about is how to learn more with each other and how to approach it.

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There are two areas you need to start learning about. BTW you will never finish learning. The most common thing people focus on is technique. The second and most important is understanding whats in your mind or what is between your ears.

Technique issues are easy. Lots of books. Lots of periodicals. Some instruction videos and of course listening to the testimony of others as we see here on LIT. Dont use porn or erotic fantasies to understand technique. They are entertainment and not education.

Now understanding whats between our ears is a life time job. How we were raised. Moral issues. Masterbation issues. Abuse issues if any and many more have a significant impact. Regardless of how she was raised there is absolutly nothing wrong with her just because she is different. She will change as she explores and learns. There is a wonderful world of new experiences awaiting not only her but all of us. All we need to do is not think that the way we were raised was perfect or right or that we know it all. Dont be afraid to let your mind open new doors. I realize this sounds sort of vague but withour knowledge of the indivdual its hard to be specific.

I do think that erotic stories can help. I think they help us look at things through minds of others and in time help us maybe look and understand ourselves better. So can roleplaying online, Cybersex, phone sex or closet sex. Understand what turns you one. If you dont know then learn. Read what turns others on and maybe you will find something in common. When people masterbate, it is not the physical stimulation alone that brings us to orgasm its what we are thinking. Its between our ears. Dont be uncomfortable with what you find there. You can change it. In fact it will change regardless.

You dont have to learn together necessarily but letting the other know what your learning from is definitly recommended. We all have our own pace and sometimes its very difficult to open up our private thoughts even to those most special and close to us. Just be very cautious about hiding your new learning experiences. Thats where the cheating around and drifting apart starts. Innocent and unintended at first but the gap can widen very quickly.

Again dont push this. There are no quick fixes or easy anwsers. A Psychritist helps us understand ourselves by letting us talk out our issues so that we basically fix ourselves through understanding ourselves. The same applies here. Give this time.

I don't have much advice or many comments here, but this part I can address . . .

naxalite0906 said:

I told them that she hardly ever played with herself, they all seemed a little surprised by this. She has bought a vibe but it has not been used more than 10 times and our relationship was long distance for 2 yrs and she still didnt touch herself when we were apart.

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I wouldn't worry about this part. Some people just don't. Case in point, my wife never did, or does, except when I've asked her to (I find it an incredible turn-on and it gets her loosened up in the important places, which doesn't happen 100% of the times I play with her).

As far as the overall drive goes, in terms of times/day or week, what are your schedules like? A couple years ago, we were every other day. Now, we're typically once or twice a week. Both due to our work/sleep schedules (I'm a night owl, she's a morning person).

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Our schedules don't match up sometimes.. but we do have more than enough time to spend together where we arent tired or busy.. However at the moment this is speant in front of the tv or just chilling with eachother. The sex twice a week thing is more than others, but i think she feels she has to with me at least once or twice a week just cos she feels sorry for me being horny all the time.. There is only so much she can take of me waking up poking her in the back.. lol If it was down to her it we would hardly ever have sex i think.

I think it all boils down to incompatibility.. but is it something that we can solve together.. especially as we are so limited in sexual experience with people other than ourselves.. (ie zero)

Wow, parts of this seem like deja vu

With some parts of your description I feel like you have just described me and Delurker. He has such a high sex drive and mine has so mellowed out in the 4years we have been together. He still turns me on and I am as madly in love with him now as I was in the beginning. But he could literally have sex 1-2 everyday, and I just cant physically do that. In the beginning I think I was on sexual overdrive (however I went a good number of years with no sex...just masturbation), but with time it just isnt my highest priority in life.

I also am on the depoprevara birth control shot and noticed a huge decrease in my sex drive. Also, though, I think life in general is playing a part in that. With our work schedules being opposite (he works nigths and I work days ), and of course housework, errands, stress of bills etc, by the time we have our 3 hours together I'm exhausted. And he is just getting up and ready to go.

I do try to make a concerted effort a couple nights a week when we have a little more time (on his nights off) with each other. Delurker actually approached me about this not too long ago. He was afraid that I was losing interest in him. I wasnt at all, I think we just have different sex drives.

I think you do need to talk about your feelings with her. Have you tried a little romancing. Or maybe try some of the adult games....I have some dice games I found around valentine day that kinda gets ya started (rub here, massage there etc) maybe she needs alot of foreplay and tenderness. Hopefully some of the ideas here can help you out. It may just be she isnt a very sexual person. Good luck

naxalite0906 said:

Our schedules don't match up sometimes.. but we do have more than enough time to spend together where we arent tired or busy.. However at the moment this is speant in front of the tv or just chilling with eachother.

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All aspects of a relationship take work; it's very easy to fall into a rut. Hornygirl mentioned some romancing/games. I think that's a great place to start. Instead of just chillin' and watching TV, get out and do something. What did you do when you first started dating; what kinds of things made the two of you fall in love in the first place? Try to recapture that feeling.

I've mentioned this before in other threads, but, generally (not always), when sexual problems emerge in a relationship, they have origins outside the bedroom. You've touched on issues with self-esteem that may play a role. But even when you do identify the root of the problem, you won't solve things overnight.

naxalite0906 said:

I think it all boils down to incompatibility.. but is it something that we can solve together.. especially as we are so limited in sexual experience with people other than ourselves.. (ie zero)

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I'm not trying to be negative here (I honestly think problems like this can be solved with communication and hard work most of the time), but I think it's important to recognize that sometimes couples reach an impasse and there's no solution. Several members here have spoken about how damaging it was to stay in a relationship where that was the case. So just make sure this has been completely resolved before you get engaged.

bump

Just bumping this thread a little.. seeing if anyone has anything else they'd like to offer.. You guys have been amazing so far

(This is dificult to write, because english is not my native language, but I hope you get what I want to say.)

Maybe I overlooked it, but I think no one has yet suggested to aproach the sex from a different directon. As I read, you have sex once or twice the week and excuse the private question, but how do you do it? Is it her spreading her legs and you're geting down on her and then finish? I don't want to be offending, but there are people thinking that this is all what sex is about.
I may still be virgin but I can make one of my friends horny in no time telling her of things one can do to each other, that she never even thought about, and she was with four guys till now.
Supposed you never thougt about trying anything else, just try to have sex, but without actually "fuking". Gently stroke her belly and her legs, kiss her neck, play with your tounge at her ears, make her goosebumps by blowing softly over her skin, gently massage her behind while holding her in an ambrace and kissing her deeply, ...
Got, what I mean?

If one things sex is only geting something between the legs and after 10 minutes it's over, she will most probably not be cheering by the thought of it.
Don't know if that is of any help for your problem, but I am glad that I have a chance to try.

Nax, I am a little more than double your age and married. Much of what you write sounds like I could have written it. I married a woman who had a healthy appetite for sex and seemed very interested in pleasing me. I guess I've fallen into the trap of after you are married the sex goes downhill, less frequent, and there is more of "I don't do that anymore". I have tried to think of ways I could be part of the problem but not only don't see where but when we communicate about it she seems more than happy with our sex life just the way it is. I wonder what happened to the woman I was dating. I sometimes wonder is she was abducted by aliens. She seems to have very little interest anymore, I have to iniate absolutely everything, she is interested in less frequency, and she just plain has no interest anymore in doing the very same things we have already done while dating. Like you, I have tried communicating and it seems to work moderately for a very short time but then soon falls back to square one all over again. It is getting very old. I don't really expect anyone to solve my problems but I can tell you that the problem will only get worse, especially after marriage. Communication is the key but apparently she is like my wife and it just doesn't register with her. If that is truly the case I doubt it ever will. I hate to be a downer but I'm also a realist. Sex is an important part of a successful relationship and you will never be satisfied and happy if you aren't happy with your sexual life. Like a lot of people, especially young people, you think that this girl is the one and you want it to work out. That is the difference between fantasy and reality, cartoonns, and the real world. Bottom line is this girl is not the one who will make you completely happy and you are lucky to have found out now before you get married. I hope I'm wrong and you can work things out and have a long fulfilling relationship but right now that seems more like wishful thinking than a real possibility. Take it from someone who has "been there, done that".

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You hit the nail on the head there sub.. i'm beginning to wonder if this can be resolved or if we have learnt all we can from eachother and now its best to call it a day before things get too hurtful..

I'm placing most of the blame on the Depo for all the problems we have had.

Some times I feel rather stupid by continuing to point out that great sex is really something that happens because of whats between our ears. I may have heard this concept when I was younger but didnt understand it or appreciate it until time and experience made it so clear. It took me years to help a good friend understand the concept and really she did but she didnt know she understood it. Her sex life improved beyond anything she expected and yet all that was holding her back was that simple click in her head to see the light. I bet I was the same way before as well. All I am saying is that the problems described by several people seem to all be rooted in helping someone else open up their minds.

Its strange that the virgin Little Bird stumbled on the concept. All he did was paint a mental picture in his friends head. I guess he was able to do that because he wasnt doing anything physical so that her focus was on the fantasy and not the distractions of reality. I mean once you understand the mental side and mental picture aspect than the physical activities will definitly achieve new realms of pleasure.

You also need to understand that people change. Sometimes we change intentionally and sometimes we do it unintentionally. That is because of how we were raised and our role models. We find ourselves behaving just like our parents did in some ways. Not all ways just some. So realize that your partners may be unaware that they are becoming like their mom or dad or other role models and how they thought they were sexually. If you havent had moments when you sounded or acted just like your parents than your still a youngin and have no clue what I mean but if you have than realize that we subconsciously act like the examples others set in our lives. Once you realize this you can decide to change or not but at least realize it and make your own choices.

I also remind you that while the grass may look greener on the other side of the fence, remember you know what your patch of grass needs and dont expect life to be easier in the next patch.

I too have been where you guys are at. It wasnt easy and frankly others get to chose their own ways but dont let that stop you from leaving no stone unturned and stubbornly making sure they see all the choices. I just hope you and us all understand the mental aspect of sex as well as we try to undserstand the techniques and the kinky fetishes we are taught.

Good luck. Hell good luck to us all.