Are song lyrics OK in submitted stories?

Greetings all.

Longtime reader, occasional writer here. I'm working on a passion project of mine that's taken me quite some time to write but, in the last few days, I've been BREEZING through it and have my rhythm.

I've reached a critical point in the plot where one character is giving another a striptease and lap dance and want to break up the action with the actual lyrics of the song chosen for thematic purposes.

Anyone know this is allowed? I know song lyrics are copyrighted and don't want my story pulled for something I could write around if I needed to.

Thanks in advance!

Less than 50% of the lyric should get through.

What Ruben said. You can be sure that the lyrics of most contemporary well-known songs are copyrighted. It would be an infringement of the copyright to quote the entire song lyrics without permission. It's unlikely you would get in real legal trouble if you did it, but you shouldn't do it. It's possible the Site owner might bounce your story if you tried (I don't know about their copyright policy to know if they actually do this or not, but it appears to be what their rules say they might do).

It's fine, as a permitted "fair use," to take a few lines from the song and intersperse them throughout your story, to show how the strip tease progresses through the course of the song. Just don't overdo it.

I have used the whole of Jeanie with the light brown hair but it was out of copyright by 1940.

In English Lane I quote a few lines from the Ivor Novello song 'We'll Gather Lilacs' but NOT the whole text.

Even 50% could be problematic. Certainly a line or two would almost always pass muster, and another line or two in a later paragraph is likely to be okay, especially if you name the song and artist admiringly (thus it becomes both good advertising for them, and you haven't exceeded any "fair use" standards), it should be no problem. I recently did exactly that in a story.

If the lyrics are in the public domain, you can use the whole thing as a unit. I'm pretty sure the current rule is "Life of the author/composer plus 75 years." So, if the composer died before the end of WWII, you're safe to quote it all. If it was written last week, not so much.

No. TLDR: without going into all of the legalese, you cannot legally reproduce lyrics for a song after 1923 without copyright permissions. The amount of lyrics you quote has no bearing on your whether you can assume a right to reproduce the lyrics. The fact that you’re an amateur, that this is a passion project and that you’re not making any money etc—none of those things have any bearing either. Likewise, you have no right to “fair use”, which is something that covers things like scholarly work and essays, not works of erotic fiction.

IMHO, you can handle it one of three ways: you can ignore copyrights and include the lyrics in your story. Copyright violation doesn’t seem to be a factor that’s reviewed with predictability regarding submissions to Literotica. Many authors on Literotica do that—both for snippets of songs and for full quotes of entire songs—and the stories still get published despite copyright infringement.

Or, you get permission to reprint lyrics from the publisher. Vanmyers86 recently posted an exquisite story in Romance, and got copyright permissions for her use of song lyrics.

A third option is that you can cite the name of the song and/or the musician. There’s no copyright issues raised by doing this. And—if your readers are familiar with the song, that should be enough context and reference for them to allude to the striptease.

Hope this is helpful, and good luck with your story!

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Right now, my plan is to use the lyrics freely as I write and pare it down once I get past the first draft. There are four songs I'm using. Each one corresponds to a different part of the strip tease (The first song she's completely clothed, the second song she strips down to her bra and panties, the third song she starts the lap dance and the fourth song she gets fully nude/we get to the climax.)

On my first pass through, I found I was using the lyrics as a crutch so this discussion has been super helpful. I tightened it to just a few lines from each song. My goal is to find a way to take the lyrics out entirely. We'll see how easy that is.

I just want my readers to be able to toss the song on and read the story and visualize every bit of it so, obviously, I think it's crucial to the plot but I'm an artist myself so I know how important it is to respect copyright and don't want to have the story pulled because of it.

Thanks!

This is an area where there have been a sufficient number of court cases to be able to see where the edge is. Law suit cases have shown that two lines of lyrics--total for your whole work--is the limit copyright will support without obtaining permission of the owner. That said, I don't think Lit. scrutinizes for that, and I don't think you'd be sued for using more. You'd be too hard to find and there would be no monetary damage done. So, it essentially hangs on your ethics.

I wish we could add more songs to fiction works. Though I adapted to it, and started making up my own songs in my stories.

Now, watching the hulu Daria episdoes without all the 90s music in it? That's a different story.

KeithD said:

This is an area where there have been a sufficient number of court cases to be able to see where the edge is. Law suit cases have shown that two lines of lyrics--total for your whole work--is the limit copyright will support without obtaining permission of the owner. That said, I don't think Lit. scrutinizes for that, and I don't think you'd be sued for using more. You'd be too hard to find and there would be no monetary damage done. So, it essentially hangs on your ethics.

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You’re point is correct, so I apologize in advance if my comment comes off as nitpicking, but I just want to add to it to clarify: there’s not a numeric minimum length or percentage that courts uphold as OK, as if there were an easement onto copyrights. It’s (basically) that a plaintiff has to establish their copyright has been violated. It would be pretty rare that just a word or two could establish that a written narrative in a work of fiction was violating someone’s copyrighted music lyrics. Typically, as you point out, a line or two of lyrics would be sufficient to establish the plaintiff’s claim.

Secondly, the Lit terms of service require that none of us reproduce any copyrighted material anywhere on the site (without permission). As you point out, however, it’s questionable how far the site admins go towards scrutinizing violating material, or enforcing this policy; the task of enforcement seems overwhelmingly daunting.

Finally, if a publisher pursued it, there is monetary damage for the infringement of a song’s copyright here on Lit. There’s the contract value imputed by the author’s unauthorized use of the copyrighted material (contracts vary from publisher to publisher, and the author would be presumed to have accepted the terms of the song lyrics’ publisher) and the per-download cost, which I think is around ten cents. Here, on Lit, that would probably relate back to views; ie, ten cents a view would be owed retroactively to the publisher. My assumption is that a publisher would most likely go after the site rather than its anonymous posters. The site admins may be relying on the DCMA as protection, but the potential issue there is that the admins, apparently, read and screen all of the stories before publication to the site.

Thankfully, none of this hypothetical has happened, and hopefully, it never would. But I think that in addition to ethics about using other artists’ copyrighted creative, it’s important for Lit authors to think about the ethics of protecting this site that gives them a platform to self-publish for free.

But all of this is far beyond the scope of the OP’s actual question....

Thongluver69 said:

On my first pass through, I found I was using the lyrics as a crutch so this discussion has been super helpful. I tightened it to just a few lines from each song. My goal is to find a way to take the lyrics out entirely. We'll see how easy that is.

I just want my readers to be able to toss the song on and read the story and visualize every bit of it so, obviously, I think it's crucial to the plot but I'm an artist myself so I know how important it is to respect copyright and don't want to have the story pulled because of it.

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If you’d like readers to be able to follow along to the soundtrack of your story, you could build a Spotify or YouTube playlist of the songs for readers, and include the address in an Author’s Note at the beginning and on your Author Bio Page. Quite a few authors have successfully done that for their stories.

Personally, my two cents: I agree that using lyrics in a story is like a crutch, and I think that it’s incredibly insightful for you to have that perspective when you’re working on a passion piece where you feel the music is critical to the story. IMHO, your story will likely be stronger if you build it without relying on lyrics.

A rough example: if a reader knows the song Cherry Pie by Warren, then he already knows the song and how it sounds. It’s arguable whether writing out lyrics— “Sheee’s my CHERRY PIIIIE”—can do anything to change his personal understanding of the song, or to give him context of the choreography, action, feelings and plot in your story. Versus, if a reader isn’t familiar with Cherry Pie, then it’s unlikely that writing out the lyrics will give him enough awareness or understanding of the song and how it relates to your story. With or without lyrics, the sensuality, intrigue and excitement of the scene will be directed by your skills. Again, just my two cents.

Best of luck!

Is the music itself important to your story, or are you primarily interested in the lyrics? If it's only the lyrics that are important to you, you could just write your story with them in it, then go back and replace them with your own lyrics. I don't mean just changing a word or two or something that's sort of a cheat. You could use your inspiration lyrics to write a few lines that convey the same feeling.

That wouldn't help readers hear the music in their heads, but if you want to create mood, but aren't set on a particular composition, you could accompany your own lyrics with a description of the music (tempo, beat, rhythm, etc.) Here's a guide to musical analysis that could help with descriptors. http://mic.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/MUSICAL-ANALYSIS-WRITING-GUIDE-2012-edition2.pdf

You could even weave the description of the music into your story in a way that enhances the character's action. ("She dropped her hip on the downbeat;" "She shimmied to the syncopated rhythm...") I'm far from fluent with music, so those aren't great examples, but hopefully they give you an idea.

Thongluver69 said:

Greetings all.

Longtime reader, occasional writer here. I'm working on a passion project of mine that's taken me quite some time to write but, in the last few days, I've been BREEZING through it and have my rhythm.

I've reached a critical point in the plot where one character is giving another a striptease and lap dance and want to break up the action with the actual lyrics of the song chosen for thematic purposes.

Anyone know this is allowed? I know song lyrics are copyrighted and don't want my story pulled for something I could write around if I needed to.

Thanks in advance!

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You must give full attribution (a note at the end will usually do)#

Handley_Page said:

You must give full attribution (a note at the end will usually do)#

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Nope, not unless you have formal permissions. Not in the United States (maybe in the UK.) All that does is pinpoint your violation so it's more convenient to find it. Song lyrics aren't book text (and you can only do this with 50 words or less of book text anyway--and even then there are restrictions on what sort of writing you're using it in). Again, chances you'll be challenged for doing it are close to nil. It's mostly a matter of your ethics being a writer and to what extent you will respect the rights of other writers.

SimonDoom said:

It's possible the Site owner might bounce your story if you tried (I don't know about their copyright policy to know if they actually do this or not, but it appears to be what their rules say they might do).

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Laurel will bounce a full quote, and she will allow fifty per cent - this based on a poem I tried to quote in one of my stories, several years ago.

If they are your own lyrics--song or poem--best to mention that in the notes box. I didn't once and had to clear that up.

Depends on what you mean by "okay" and how you're using the quoted material.

In US law there are four factors that, taken together, determine whether one person's use of another's work can be "fair use".

The amount taken, relative to the work as a whole, is one consideration. But "amount" isn't just about word counts; even a short quote can infringe on copyright if it's a particularly important part of the work.

Transformative use is another. There is substantially more leeway for things like reviews/commentary and parody than for a work that just recycles somebody else's words in order to invoke the same mood created by the original.

Use on Literotica is generally not going to harm the profitability of the original work, which is helpful but not on its own a guarantee of fair use.

I suspect a lot of the stories here that quote lyrics would be found in breach of copyright if the owners cared enough to pursue it. In practice, they don't, and Literotica doesn't enforce this very stringently. So if "okay" means "will I get away with it"... yes. Unless your work becomes the next 50 Shades and attracts a bit more scrutiny, anyway.

But leaving aside "will I get away with it", it's probably not something you want to lean on too heavily as a writer. Instead of using somebody else's words to make a story sexy or romantic or funny, better to learn how to do it with your own words.

This issue is causing me some difficulty at the moment - I'm writing a character who has difficulty knowing her own mental state, and sometimes has to get clues from the songs that are running through her head. In a recent scene, she sings a famous old song before realising that the lover in the song has the same name as the woman she's with. That inevitably involves a certain amount of quoting, but I'm trying to keep it transformative.

Bramblethorn said:

This issue is causing me some difficulty at the moment - I'm writing a character who has difficulty knowing her own mental state, and sometimes has to get clues from the songs that are running through her head. In a recent scene, she sings a famous old song before realising that the lover in the song has the same name as the woman she's with. That inevitably involves a certain amount of quoting, but I'm trying to keep it transformative.

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That's a fascinating premise. Do you know what your title is going to be? I'd like to make sure I see it when it's published.

Enchantment_of_Nyx said:

That's a fascinating premise. Do you know what your title is going to be? I'd like to make sure I see it when it's published.

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This is my "Anjali's Red Scarf" series. I have seven chapters up so far, one in the buffer, and I'm gradually working on #9. The song-lyrics thing isn't a major theme in the story, just something that comes up occasionally, first time in chapter 2.

Bramblethorn said:

This is my "Anjali's Red Scarf" series. I have seven chapters up so far, one in the buffer, and I'm gradually working on #9. The song-lyrics thing isn't a major theme in the story, just something that comes up occasionally, first time in chapter 2.

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Thanks. It was really her mental state vis-à-vis the lyrics that interested me, rather than the use of lyrics. I'll check it out.

Common sense needed

Thongluver69 said:

I've reached a critical point in the plot where one character is giving another a striptease and lap dance and want to break up the action with the actual lyrics of the song chosen for thematic purposes. Anyone know this is allowed?

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I assume you don’t want to use the entire song? That you want to use snatches of the song interspersed in the scene relevant to what each person is doing?

If that’s the case why would there be a problem? I’ve read three stories, all written within the last year, in which writers have used a verse to highlight something that’s happening at the time and is relevant to the mood of the character. I know at least one of them got through without a problem because I wrote the story.

You can put a copyright acknowledgement at the end, if you wish, for peace of mind. But unless your story is going to be published in hardback or paperback and sell thousands of copies I shouldn’t think anyone is going to chase you regarding copyright. How the hell will they find you? You’re on a site where writers all use pseudonyms and, I assume, throwaway email addresses.

If it gets past Laurel I would have thought you would be okay. If she kicks it back you have a rewrite on your hands. Big deal! Sometimes people think too much.

I use lyrics in my stories all the time, almost always excerpts, right at the start mostly. Never a problem. I’ve quoted a few lines within a story now and then too. Just don’t go overboard and quite the whole song.

I did it in my story "Summer's Heat: A Winter Reunion" forever and ages ago, as the main character singing his kid to sleep. I asked this same question here and was told that in minuscule amounts it would be okay.

But as a rule, I try not to tempt fate. Copyright is so wild west these days that one IP owner will let it slide while another will ruin your life. The worst is when two or more holders have claim to aspects of the same work.

Tried to upload a review video on YouTube once. Immediately, two ContentID flags: one for the animation studio and the other for the record company that owned the ED song. Studio seemed to say "okay" (but still pending!) dealing with the record company and YouTube's broken tool for 'editing' out the music was so frustrating that I deleted the video and abandoned trying to grow the channel itself.

Okay, I don't know if this still applies but... way back when, I heard on the Tonight Show w/Johnny Carson, if they used more than eight bars of a song they had to pay royalties.

That said, I have used a verse or a chorus of a song in a couple of stories but never used an entire song.

You might try just having the song mentioned at the beginning with maybe the starting verse of the song typed out, now that the reader has the song in their head, continue with the good part of the story. During the scene just mention that the song was still playing in the background.

Why go to the trouble of typing out the entire song, unless your are some weird fanboy or something.

This has been helpful

Thanks everyone for the advice. It's been super helpful. I'm still working through my first draft of the piece so it's a work in progress (Haven't even gotten to the actual sex yet) but I've been able to strip most of the song lyrics out. I'm hoping I'll be able to pare it down even more on the next pass through.

Wanted to post a little of the striptease scene in question so people could visualize what I meant. Essentially, there are four songs in all and each song builds into the other. The timing of the lyrics, beat and pacing matter for the actions, which is why I'm stuck mentally with the use of lyrics but I hope to write around it.

Here's a small part of the scene. Hope this helps explain what I mean (And I'd love feedback on the tone if you are all inclined)

Setup: Guy hires an escort. It turns out to be his cousin. Awkwardness ensues. She eventually agrees to give him a striptease and lap dance and this is where we are ...

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[Please only post brief snippets of no more than a few paragraphs of stories to forum posts. If you need to have someone look over longer passages, please make arrangements to do so through private message - AHMod]

Thongluver69 said:

Thanks everyone for the advice. It's been super helpful. I'm still working through my first draft of the piece so it's a work in progress (Haven't even gotten to the actual sex yet) but I've been able to strip most of the song lyrics out. I'm hoping I'll be able to pare it down even more on the next pass through.

Wanted to post a little of the striptease scene in question so people could visualize what I meant. Essentially, there are four songs in all and each song builds into the other. The timing of the lyrics, beat and pacing matter for the actions, which is why I'm stuck mentally with the use of lyrics but I hope to write around it.

Here's a small part of the scene. Hope this helps explain what I mean (And I'd love feedback on the tone if you are all inclined).

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My opinions:

- This use of lyrics would probably be allowed by the site.
- I'm unsure whether the lyrics you've posted are enough to be protected by copyright, though the real question there is usually "if the rights holders chose to make an issue of it, could you afford to fight them long enough to find out?"
- Neither of those points really matter though, because the scene would be better off without those lyrics.

I am going to assume that you're familiar with the song, and that for you, those lines have a certain emotional resonance that matches the mood you're trying to convey in this scene.

For me, unfamiliar with the song, they do nothing. The title "I'm A Slave 4 U" gives me the idea that this is a sexy song, okay, but beyond that... it's just "get it get it oh" and then repetition. With the right music, maybe those words are powerful. Without that music playing in my head, it's like watching somebody trying to use a cheat code in a game that doesn't recognise it.

She stood perfectly still but nodded her head song along with the rhythm. Paul could tell she was working up the courage to start.

Then the lyrics kicked in. As soon it began, Courtney started to move.

Her movement was simple at first. Just a slight adjustment of her hips and a sway from side to side. She still hadn't turned around. She didn't feel ready to. Internally, this was the easiest part. She could pretend she was alone and dancing for fun. Courtney loved this song and was psyching herself up a second at a time.

The tempo picked up a little and, so too, did her sway.

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This part, OTOH, works for me. It tells me how she feels, a bit about what the music's doing, and how she responds to that... all without requiring me to know the song you're referring to.

Musical references can do a lot in a story. If I mention that Jane likes Britney and Jill likes Diamanda Galás, that says a certain amount about the kind of people they both are. But don't expect them to do the emotional heavy lifting. Even with a popular artist like Britney, a large percentage of your readers won't know the song and won't have the associations that you're hoping to invoke.