Dialogue, what's your take on it?

We did this years ago, so it's high time we did it again! Don't feel the need to answer every single question if you don't know, but do take a stab at some of them!

How do you do your dialogue? Do you avoid attributives (said words), if so how? Do you use attributives a lot? If so, why? How do you develop a character through dialogue? How do you get around attributives in group scenes? How do you work in unspoken "dialogue" such as body language, if you do? How do you use action to highlight your dialogue, if you do? How do use props, if you do?

Any short examples would be lovely!

I hate the word 'said.' I don't really like dialogue tags anyway, I think they're boring and repetitive, but especially he said, she said. Not suggesting constant us of he asked, she grated, he shouted, etc., but I think 90% of dialogue tags that use said could (and maybe should) be omitted. It's obvious they're talking: unless you're telling us something about how they're talking, then there are more graceful ways of identifying the speaker.

I'm currently attempting to use my dialogue to develop my characters more. My only recent story is my rewrite of Seducing Dawn so all examples come from that.

"I’ll just go and…you know, I’ve got to…I’ve got to go." Tara stuttered her way out and ended up almost fleeing the room.

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Before anyone lays into me for my use of ellipses: In English grammar an ellipsis is allowed for a pause in speech or thought. I understand this is poor grammar in American.

Also experimenting with verbal tells (things which only one chracter says): Par exemple - In SD, only Tara always refers to people as sweetie or honey. Currently looking for research into other people's tells, if anyone wants to donate in my tells thread (blatant blag, but hey, who noticed?).

Interested to see other people's takes on dialogue; I'm aware it's not one of my strong points. Good thread KM.

The Earl

"Killer?"

"Yeah."

"Stop cooking. We need to talk."

I had just walked in the house to find the psycho bitch had broken in again.

"What is it, snookums?" she grinned innocently, giving a her simmering stew a little taste from a ladle.

"On the couch." I realized I had to be forcefull. "Now damn it. Sit!"

She caught the anger in my voice, pulled off her apron, and followed me into the living room which, I noticed, was freshly vaccumed and smelled of freshly poured portpouri.

"Honey, listen," I began, a bit more kindly, "you've got to stop doing this."

"Doing what?"

"Pretending we're married. Leave the coasters alone damn it, they're fine! Stop re-arranging things. Stop breaking in here and cooking for me and washing my clothes -- you folded my underwear yesterday. It's got to stop."

Her lip trembled. I was hurting her. "But, we're in love..."

"You're in love, it isn't the same thing."

"I'm moving too fast. Is that it?"

"Fast, slow, it don't matter because, honey, I'm already married. You're obssessed." I had to make this stick. "I don't want to see you again. Ever. Is that clear?"

Killer started straight ahead, a tear welling. She gulped a couple of times, and her hands shook. I wondered if she had brought a gun this time.

"Alright." she said, finally. "But I want you to do just one thing before I go."

"Anything." I said, relieved to hear her use the word 'go'. "Anything."

She stood up lifting her sweater over hear head, her heavy boobs bouncing out, the nipples red and erect. Before I could complain she dropped the sweater and slipped her jeans straight off; she wore no panties, and her cunt was barely covered with a fine, brown bush. "Wait.." was all I could say before she plopped her ass on the floor, lay back on the rug, opened her knees and threw her hands behind her head.

"Fuck me." she said, pleading. "Please?" She lifted her pelvis up, and I could see a glistening of moisture over her pussy lips. "You can stick it anywhere. I don't care. Just, please, fuck me. It hurts, right here..." she said, dipping a finger into her cunt. "It hurrrrrts."

"Well, okay." I said as sternly as possible. "But right after, you've got to go. Is that clear?"

She smiled a killer smile. She knew I was always hungry after sex. And the stew smelled good. Fuck.

Hello muffie

I use dialogue in any way it needs to be used to highlight something, describe something without narrative, chat in general, any way really.
I'm a sod for leaving out punctuation and the like sometimes in dialogue lines, I mean when did you see anyone with a Question mark above their head, or an exclamation mark stuck up their butt.
I try like the devil to avoid the dreaded multi character oooooooo's and Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh's to exagerate a scene, prefering maybe just one extension, ahh!.

I have in fact just posted a 7900 word story containing *dialogue only*, not a single syllable of narrative history or description in it, it was shit trying to get over the sex scenes and that didn't work at all in my opinion without narrative, but everything else was easy'ish.
I wound the characters involved count up to 7 people by the end of the story and it was still reasonably easy to keep them talking to each other without too much confusion for the reader.

The whole thing is just an experiment really, not meant to be taken seriously, just something I challenged myself to do.

I hovered over the Del. button for a while, but then posted it for the hell of it.

Luv ya pops...........

I don't use attributives past the first couple lines unless several people are present. They get annoying quickly, both to write and to read.

Hi

Star of Penumbra said:

I don't use attributives past the first couple lines unless several people are present. They get annoying quickly, both to write and to read.

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I often start with short bursts of dialogue to avoid any attributives until further into the story. Often preceded by a bit of history or other narrative.

"Jenny."

"Yes Brian, what do you want?"

"Come here."

"why."

"I want you to. Come here."

"Do as you're told bitch, go to Brian, don't you obey your husband, you should."

"What's it got to do with you Peter? Brian tell him not to talk to me like that."

"It's got everything to do with Pete, I invited him here to sample my darling wife's desires Jen."

"Brian I've told you before, no silly games, he is not sampling my desires as you so crudely put it."

"Crude, crude, you aint heard nothing yet whore, crude."

"Peter I don't like that word."

"What word Jenny?"

"I think the whore means the word whore Pete."

"Hey what's going on over there, why are you whispering you lot?"

"I won't be whispering in a minute Jess, this is getting out of hand."

"Hey, what, what's getting out of hand Jenny?"

"Nothing Jess, Jenny's winding you up, aren't you darling, tell Jess you're widing her up darling, unless you want us to do your little sister as well."

"Fuck you Brian."

"Ohh Jenny, I think the idea is to fuck you lover."

"Piss off Pete, you're not having me, no freekin way."

"He is darling."

"Nice big tits Jenny, wow, nice and firm as well, jeez those nipples."

"Stop it Peter, leave me alone, don't you dare do that again, ever."

"38's Pete."

"What Brian?"

"Her tits, 38 inches, nice aint they, fucking niples like truck wheel nuts too."

"Yea I noticed."

Etc, etc, rhubarb and so on running into longer dialogue with a few Attributes and a few bursts of narrative to get it under way, then take it as it comes.
The above blurb should in no way be treated as a story line of course, just an example.

pops..........

I tend to use a mix.

Interestingly, the dogmatic Strunk and White's The Elements of Style and I tend to agree on the idea of use attributives to identify who's saying what in the dialogue--the rule: Make sure the reader knows who's speaking.

I think pop_54's suggestions have merit, though, especially for some sections of a story that has lots of well-written dialogue, and it's obvious from the tone and style who, in fact, is speaking. And for those that want (need) quick-paced action in their story, it may improve the flow by removing the attributives; they're like the pedals on a car brake in highway traffic. If you want to zip along down the highway for fast reading, take the foot off and let your story fly.

But call me old-fashioned: I have a tendency to look for those mental "breathing pauses" to help me re-orient and re-anchor myself to the scene. Besides not boring the reader to death with excessive use of attributives, we are also under an equally important obligation not not confuse the reader, either.

What's a writer to do?

Write so the dialogue flows well, economizing on of words, without confusing the reader.

(Say, one can say that for just about anything about story style in general, too!)

Re: Hello muffie

pop_54 said:

I'm a sod for leaving out punctuation and the like sometimes in dialogue lines, I mean when did you see anyone with a Question mark above their head, or an exclamation mark stuck up their butt.

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Two words: Victor Borge. OK, so it's a name, but still... the skit was one of the funniest things i have ever seen. Barring going to see Howie Mandel, of course.

As to the original question, it all depends on the story. Dialogue can either help or hinder the story. Sometimes it seems to be better to have little to none at all. Other times the whole thing would be choppy and incomplete without the constant droning on of the characters. Then there's the stories that have a happy medium - which is hard for me to do. It always ends up way too long.

Hell, if you've only got two characters speaking, you hardly ever have to use attributives, especially if they're different sexes. Maybe one every dozen speaker changes or so. That's because you can use "cigarette" lines.
See, when people used to smoke, cigarettes were one of the writer's best friends:

"So tell me something I don't know." he said as he reached for a cigarette.
"You're joking!" she said, exhaling through her nose.
He took a deep drag. "I wish I were."
"That makes two of us!" she flicked the long ash onto the floor and ground it in.
"No. Leave me out of it!" he stubbed out his cigarette in the ashtray.
"Well then fuck you." she flicked the butt into the gutter, turned on her heel and walked off.

See, there were all these great things you could do with butts, from using them as attributives to emotional descriptors to controling dialogue pacing. Playing with your hair or picking you nose just doesn't work as well.

Really, attributing dialogue should not be a problem with only two speakers. I still tend to throw in a a lot of non-tobacco cigarette lines or a "he said" after about four speaker changes though, for pacing as well as to remind the reader that he's reading a story and not a screen play. There's such a thing as too much dialogue. You remember "The Anderson Tapes"? That book was written all in dialogue. It was so-so.

I don't think you should expect the reader to figue out who's saying what based on speech patterns. Face it, everyone pretty much talks the same nowadays, unless you've got some heavy class differences. And when you really want the reader to make no mistake about who's saying what, it's best to make it clear and not try and be clever.

Personally, I don't even notice the word "said" when I read. It just becomes invisible to me. Of course, use it with every line and it's going to grate.

One thing I'd like to mention is how weird multi-paragraph speeches look in Literotica's format. You know, where one character speaks several paragraphs so that each paragraph has opening quotes but no closing quotes until the last. For some reason they just don't look right here, and I often either collapse several paragraphs into one, or use an attributive in each one.

---dr.M.

"Oh, thank God!" She whispered.

"Oh," I said modestly. "It's really not that big."

"No, it's not, is it?"

I frowned. This wasn't the comeback I'd expected. "Well, it's not that small either."

She looked up and smiled. I wasn't sure I liked that smile.

"Oh, I didn't mean anything," she explained. "It's just that you always read about guys with these huge ones and then Miriam had suggested that I go buy a cucumber to, you know, but when I looked at them, they were so enormous I didn't think... So I bought zucchini instead, but I was so worried," she looked down again. "It's smaller than the cucumbers."

"Maybe a little," I agreed reluctantly.

"A lot smaller."

"What the hell kind of cucumbers we talking about here, Italian?"

"No, just regular cucumbers," she smiled again, encouragingly this time. I still didn't like it. "But it is bigger than the zucchini."

That was something, I guess.

This is pretty indicative of my style of dialogue. As you can see, I have a fair amount of attributives and/or action phrases sprinkled throughout. The only time I wouldn't do that would be in rapid fire dialogue that involved two people speaking only short sentences, and since I write nothing like Hemingway, that doesn't happen very often.

I also don't write a lot of dialogue period-- maybe only ten or twenty percent of my stories are composed of conversation. Don't really know why that is, I like reading it, but I never seem to be able to fit more in. Probably because I use so many attributives.

Jayne

I use dialogue quite a bit in my stories. I use it to define my characters as much as possible. I believe that in real life we learn more about a person by what they say and how they interact with others through the things they say.

It's like meeting a new friend. Another friend may tell me things about a new person, but I find out the depth of the person through the things they say and do. I discover my new friend's passion by listening to them. I try to do the same with my stories.

I try to use as few attributives as possible. But I do use them to keep the reader from having to think about who is talking if necessary. As a reader, the most frustrating thing that can happen to me is to be forced to backtrack to figure out who is speaking. I will sprinkle in the attibutives as conservatively as I can though.

Many times the author can avoid attibutives and also accomplish multiple things, like the movements and reactions of the characters. When done effectively, dialogue can bring a character to life for the reader in ways a narrative can't. But just as with anything, too much of a good thing can be bad too. There is a place for narrative just as there is with dialogue. Attibutives are the same way.

Pookie

I often think of overuse of attributives is an indication of someone who's unused to writing dialogue, or that the writer is trying to keep straight in his/her own head who's speaking. This, as folks have said, is much easier to keep track of if there's only two speaking, but once you start adding bodies, those markers *do* help to clarify matters. As far as the overuse of the "said" and "replied" thing, once again, I think it has to do with the experience of the writer, as well as the writer's ability to come up with more descriptive methods of saying it.

Anyone who's read my stories has probably discovered that dialogue isn't typically a big thing. I guess I see it as: how much talking does a normal person do in a day? I know I don't often do a lot of it. It goes in spurts, but I know a good portion of my, and I think, most people's, days go in relative silence.

So, I have no problem with dialogue. I happen to think my theater experience has helped me with writing it. I'm just not sure a lot of people talk that much. Yes, a lot of people talk *too* much, but I think you get what I'm saying.

Attributives are glossed over by readers...

He said/she said, they asked together are used only when there may be some confusion as to who's saying what for the reader. And anyone who has read a book gets used to by passing with their eyes certain attributives as a matter of course while reading. But should the author not put them in when they need to be there to define who's doing the talking at that moment the story will fall apart everytime the reader gets to the dialogues. Some writers use the names instead of the pronouns right off, then allow the punctuation, and the logical course of the dialogue to take over until a third party interjects something. The trick to dialogue isn't the use of attributives, so much as it is making the dialogue sound true to the nature of the conversation, and those having the conversation.

See the following examples:

1.) "Damn!" She said angrily. "I hate that man!!"
"No shit."

2.) "Damn!" And Margaret threw her purse across the room, "I hate that asshole!"
"No shit."

Both are right, but number 2 shows the anger where number one just tells about it using a stale adverb. Number 1 hints at who is talking, but in number 2 we know exactly who is pissed. So if this scened involved two women number 1 would be meaningless if we'd opened the book to that point, and not read anything that came before it. In both we know that the other person is talking so no attributives are needed unless one wants to show the other persons reaction to the first person's temper. And thus dialogue between the two is established, and continues without attributives in a back and forth see saw verbal exchange.

In many of the stories that I've read here at literotica, dialogue is almost nonexistant, or unbelievable. The writter preferring to go with a narrative format in most cases, and missing an excellent chance to put the reader right into the story with them. In truth, people seldom talk as much as we think we do, but when we do talk we expect to be the center of attention at that point. And seldom do we just rant on, and on without being interrupted by someone else wanting center stage. How one interrupts a conversation reflects personality, manners, and background. And an author can use this subtle approach to further enhance their characters.

Another thing about dialogue as most people know intuitively is that it isn't so much what someone says, as how they say it, and what body language they add is another tool for enhancing character. If a picture is like a thousand words, then dialogue is the brush stroke of truth in every story.


As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

Does no-one else share my hatred of said? Am I all alone <sob>?

Although I say so myself, I really like this scene. I'm not usually very good at writing dialogue and to write somehting of this quality is out of the ordinary. And not a single said to be found.

As she came out of the shower, Dawn heard raised voices. That was strange too; she couldn’t remember the last time Willow and Tara had an argument. Slipping on a T-shirt and shorts, Dawn crept downstairs to listen.

"Why won’t you just listen to me?"

Dawn had opened the kitchen door a crack and could see Willow leaning back against the counter. Tara moved in and out of her limited view, pacing the floor. Dawn had never seen Tara look this disturbed: her shoulder-length ash-blonde hair was dishevelled and her shirt was creased, almost as though she’d slept in her clothes.

"There’s nothing to be worried about. I know what I’m doing."

"I’m not sure that you do. You’ll think that you’ve got it all under control until it's gone way too far. You’re using too much magic."

"It’s no big deal, okay? I can handle it."

Tara’s voice took on a pleading note as she finally paused in her pacing to face Willow. "Come on baby please, just give it up for one week, one week, what does that matter, huh? I’m worried about you; the magic’s changing you. You’re changing the world to suit yourself. You just need to slow down for a bit okay? Please?"

"I don’t need to slow down; I’ll be okay. It doesn’t matter how much magic I use."

"Like my memory doesn’t matter to you?"

Willow reacted as if she’d been slapped, a red flush entering her face. Tara continued, her voice getting louder with the confirmation she sought. "I knew it. You used that spell on me!"

Willow finally regained enough composure to make a belated denial. "What spell?"

"The memory one. I only have a vague recollection of the last two weeks, almost as though I was drunk. I know what you did and I won’t let you mess with my mind anymore." Tara was screaming now and tears were streaming down her face. "Why are you doing this? What is it that you won’t let me remember?"

"It’s nothing. Honey, clam down." Willow looked as though she couldn’t believe how angry Tara was. She stretched out a comforting hand to Tara’s shoulder, but it was slapped away within a second.

"It is NOT nothing. You are messing with my memory to suit yourself and I am not going to stay here long enough for you to make me forget this."

The back door slammed as Tara stormed out. Dawn attempted to creep away, wondering what that was all about, trying not to give away that she’d been eavesdropping. A loud "thunk" as she knocked over the hall table signified that she’d failed.

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The Earl

PS. Dirt Man: Did you mean to start a sentence with And in your example. Seems slightly strange.

TheEarl said:

Does no-one else share my hatred of said? Am I all alone <sob>?

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"I wouldn't say that I hate the use of the word 'said'. But I do hate seeing it used when it doesn't need to be," said Pookie, grinning.



Pookie

"Don't you see, it's just superfluous." The Earl ran his hands through his hair, not sure how to get his point across. Where was Weird Harold when he was needed? "The speech-marks tell you something is being said, so why do you need to tell the reader again? The only exception is when you're imparting some information with the tag about how they're talking. Even then it can be done more gracefully."

Pookie watched, resigned as The Earl started pacing. He looked such a fool when he got het up about things. "Most people don't even notice them though."

"But that's not the point. They're needless words and they clutter the story."

"If no-one notices them, then how can they be clutter?"

The Earl sat down again. He linked his fingers behind his neck and looked at the ceiling, sighing. "Look, do what you want. I'm just gonna wait here for Weird Harold to show up. He'll know what I was tryign to say."

The Earl

I watched The Earl pacing. He said that he hated the word said. What can I say to change his mind about having a character say said at certain times? If the characters only say said when things are said by a new speaker, then said is fine to use, just as I said in the last thing I said to him. But now I am afraid to even say the word said aloud out of fear that he will say something that he will wish he never said.

"Let's wait on Weird Harold to show up. I'm sure he will have something to say about said" I paused before I typed the word said, thinking better of it.

As I sat back in my chair, I said nothing more.

Pookie

I once read a good line in a book, can't remember where:

"For Chrissakes, Shut the fuck up!" I explained.

"Pookie." Said Earl

"Yees?"

"Please describe your vocalisation", begged The Earl.

"What for?"

" 'Cos I can't hear your voice." he explained

"Doesn't bother me"

"For Cliff's sake, I can't even see your face to add nuance" He raged

"For Cliff's sake?"

"Just an English joke" said Earl dismissively

"Oh English."


Gauche

Pookie thought about what was said. Maybe she should have attributed what she said to something? She decided to just attribute it to the joint she was smoking while trying to write creatively.

whilst

The Earl thought about what had just been said (I know). It kinda missed the point. "Look, I'm not suggesting that you pump every dialogue tag full of steriods for the sake of it. I dislike dialogue tags in general. If you've got nothing to tell about how you're speaking, then you don't need to use them at all. In my opinion, all they should be used for is telling whose talking and how they're saying it. If both of them are clear, then don't use the dialogue tags."

Pookie and Gauche had a brief discussion behind their hands while Earl paced nervously. They reached a consensus and heftily stoned the Earl for talking too much.

The Earl


PS. Cliff? I don't get that.

I don't hate the word 'said', but there are so many other words that can be used in its place, e.g. commented, replied, retorted that make the expression clearer.

It's like using the word "nice", the easy, descriptive way out.

Dialogue is excellent in most stories I've come across.
If gives more insight into the character, more show rather than tell I think.

TheEarl said:

PS. Cliff? I don't get that.

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"The Young Ones" Explained Gauche, smiling.

"The who?" enquired Earl

"No. Not the Who" said the critic, deliberately misunderstanding.

"What?"

"Whats on second"

"Abbott and Costello" Pookie interjected

"Interjected!" exclaimed Gauche, leering.

"Smut and double entendre, that's ALL we need."

Gauche

p.s Rick from the popular television show "The Young Ones" hailed Cliff Richards as a God, hence the phrase, for Cliffs' sake

The Earl looked at Gauche disbelievingly. "I'm only 18. I don't know anything about the Young Ones."

"I didn't think you were only 18. You sound older than that."

The Earl rolled his eyes. This seemed to be everyone's stock response to him revealing his age. "That's not the point though, is it?"

"Isn't it? What is the point then?"

The Earl paused, taken aback. "I dunno. What is the point? I've lost what we were talking about now. How come we've ended up in a pseuado reality conversation with dialogue tags and all."

"Not sure, but I'm sure it's pookie's fault."

Pookie flushed at this. "I may have started it, but it's you two who've carried it on."

The Earl