How To...Know When To Have "The Talk"?

Okay, I admit it. I'm relationship deficient. Ever since my late teens I have simply made one wrong choice after another in men. Most from my late teens/early 20s were the usual goofs that most women date at that age - no ambition, wanting to get laid and high all the time, etc. I guess those really don't count. After that, I went from alcoholic to married man to bi-polar to a whole bunch in between.

In other words, I was a complete fuck up when it came to relationships. Thankfully, I never actually married one of these fuck ups!!

Now, I think I've finally met a man who seems like real relationship material. No, he's not perfect, but then neither am I and I don't think I could deal with perfection. But he's fun to be with, we share so much in common, we click sexually, he's got more common sense than anyone I've met with the exception of my father, he's got a good job, and he even has a car! (Well, okay, it's a truck, but he's originally from Texas, so what do you expect?) We've been dating now, as of today, for exactly 8 months. (yah!) Anyway....

Quite soon after we started dating (like within a month or so??) he brought up the subject of "where do we go/what is this relationship." I was caught off guard and still sorting out my feelings for this man, so I suggested we just take things as they come and see where it goes. He hasn't brought the subject up again, though he did admit to me (about 3 months ago) that he was fearful of telling me loved me because of past relationship problems. (Seems I'm not the only one with a screwed up past) About 2 - 3 weeks after telling me this, he sat me down and told me he loved me. I almost started crying, and admitted that I had come to love him as well.

Now, (finally!) for the main question. I am feeling the need to find out where this relationship might be heading. I get the feeling that he might be having the same thoughts, but then I've been so wrong about interpreting thoughts and feelings in the past, I'm really afraid to go there. Yet, I would like to know. I don't know if marriage is in the picture at this time, but I am feeling that I would like the relationship to become serious. He has told me that his close friends and the family members that I've met so far (two of his sons, both adults, and his mother) have all told him to not let me get away. He hasn't brought up the status of the relationship, and I'm wondering if that's because he feels all is well or because of my rather flippant remark early on. Either way, I'm feeling the "Talk" needs to take place and I'm supposing I will have to initiate it. But how does one do this? Is it something that is lead up to? Or does one just blurt it out? Is this appropriate dinner conversation? Or is it best left for that "after sex afterglow when a man will say or do or agree to anything"?

I know this probably sounds really stupid, but the only time I've ever told a man my feelings before he revealed his to me, I got burned pretty badly. I swore then that I would never, ever tip my hand before a man made the first move. This may have been the bane of more than one relationship, but I've kept my pride intact. (For what that was worth)

Okay. Long post, I know. (But then, those of you that know me know this is no surprise!) I'm open to opinions, suggestions, personal experiences, questions, dos/don't dos, anything and everything. Thanks, all of you!

Chele,
Everyone is going to give you a different answer here, because its different for everyone.

But I think the question isn't "When to have the talk", but recognizing the need for having it.

For me, I knew it was necessary when I realized that without her, I was empty. She filled a part of me I didn't even know existed, and the thought of her not being part of my life made me ache.

From the sound of it, you practically dread the idea of having "the talk". And quite honestly, I don't think "the talk" is really even necessary.

Try this little exercise.

Sit down one day and imagine that suddenly for whatever reason he's gone from your life. Think about it and ask yourself how you'd feel, what would you miss, how would you cope. Sure, he's not really gone, and sure, you'd cope. But would you enjoy it? Would you wake up every morning looking forward to the day, or would you wake up dreading another dreary day?

This isn't about choosing a sexual partner, its about choosing to blend your life with another in such a way that you become hard to tell apart. Its about saying this is your friend, your lover and your soulmate. This is about choosing someone that will look out for you, as you'll look out for him. Its about wanting to be with him when there is no sex going on, its about taking comfort from his presense when you're not feeling good. Its about his being willing to lie next to you and rub your back, or bring you a cup of soup when your sick.

If you can think about these things, and truly say you have reached the point where you need this person in your life, then having the talk is easy, and you can open with "talk" with a simple "I LOVE YOU.

The talk at that point isn't hard, in fact its kinda fun! You can plan a life together, there are no barriers or walls to breach, and even the worst that life throws at you won't daunt you, because you know you won't be alone in dealing with it.

So if you think you're ready, say those three magic words and have your talk.

Bobmi357 said:

Chele,
Everyone is going to give you a different answer here, because its different for everyone.

But I think the question isn't "When to have the talk", but recognizing the need for having it.

For me, I knew it was necessary when I realized that without her, I was empty. She filled a part of me I didn't even know existed, and the thought of her not being part of my life made me ache.

From the sound of it, you practically dread the idea of having "the talk". And quite honestly, I don't think "the talk" is really even necessary.

Try this little exercise.

Sit down one day and imagine that suddenly for whatever reason he's gone from your life. Think about it and ask yourself how you'd feel, what would you miss, how would you cope. Sure, he's not really gone, and sure, you'd cope. But would you enjoy it? Would you wake up every morning looking forward to the day, or would you wake up dreading another dreary day?

This isn't about choosing a sexual partner, its about choosing to blend your life with another in such a way that you become hard to tell apart. Its about saying this is your friend, your lover and your soulmate. This is about choosing someone that will look out for you, as you'll look out for him. Its about wanting to be with him when there is no sex going on, its about taking comfort from his presense when you're not feeling good. Its about his being willing to lie next to you and rub your back, or bring you a cup of soup when your sick.

If you can think about these things, and truly say you have reached the point where you need this person in your life, then having the talk is easy, and you can open with "talk" with a simple "I LOVE YOU.

The talk at that point isn't hard, in fact its kinda fun! You can plan a life together, there are no barriers or walls to breach, and even the worst that life throws at you won't daunt you, because you know you won't be alone in dealing with it.

So if you think you're ready, say those three magic words and have your talk.

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Very wise man!! That was well said.Really!

OH my gush bobmi357 i think you just wrote out someone's wedding vows, i am going to use them next time me and hubby sit down to have a heart to heart talk, that was wonderful.

Bobmi - you are a sweety and your wife is one lucky lady!

I've actually done the exercise you've suggested. You're right, I would cope if he were no longer in my life, but I just so enjoy his company, the compassion he shows towards others, the way he can bring logic to chaos, the way he grounds me - even when I don't think I want to be grounded. And yes, this is more than just sex. I enjoy cuddling up to him while we watch TV, or holding hands when we are walking or in the car. I even like those times when we kiss good-night, turn off the light, and just fall asleep together. He does try to solve my problems when I just want him to listen - but don't all men do that? Still, I know he means well. Heck, I would even miss his incessant teasing and his dumb practical jokes!

Ummmm....I'm thinking Chele might be in love here...

The funny part about this relationship? I don't feel any of the possesiveness (for lack of a better word) that I've felt I've needed before. He's trustworthy, he follows through on his word, and that has gained a good deal of trust. That in itself is a huge thing for me. And because of that, I'm totally comfortable giving him his space.

Thanks, Bobmi. Your words have truly helped me to think a little more deeply.

I think you knew the answer already Chele. But sometimes it is good to get someone outside of the situation to nudge you along.

From the sound of it, you're both ready for the "talk", I'd sit him down over a meal, or just in the living room and plunge right in. The one place/situation I wouldn't bring up the topic would be right after (or during for that matter) sex. Its not that its inappropriate, but its more like it can be percieved as there being an obligation on his part. Not a good thing to do. Hell, if you end up in bed after the talk, thats fine. But keep sex out of it while its going on.

As to your other comment. Well I'm not without my own set of unique flaws, but I do think I'm really lucky to have my wife. Even though sometimes I wonder why she puts up with me.

Chele,

Here's yet another thought experiment in the event you haven't found out about this side of your new partner the old-fashioned way (by earning it).

Imagine that a problem arises that is strictly your own. How would you feel about asking him to help? How do you think he would respond? Would you be comforted by his participation in solving the problem or would you be concerned that the two of you might not work well enought together to solve the problem effectively?

Now, reverse the situation and imagine discovering he has a problem. How do you feel about helping him face it? How do you think he would respond to your offer of help?

Speaking from current experience, I can tell you (and I'm sure this is not news to you by any means) that a long-term working relationship encounters far more difficulties, small and large, than you ever imagine beforehand. The way the two of you handle difficulty and challenge together will be a very important factor in your long-term stability and happiness as a couple.

I guess this is just my inner engineer speaking, but I found out early (and fortunately) that some of the women I was madly in love with when I was younger were simply not suited to work with me on problems that came up. Or that I wasn't well suited to work with them. We weren't a good match when we had to be really serious and find a balance of our strengths to tackle something larger than us.

If I had to hazard a guess, based on your post, you may not be quite ready for "the talk" or maybe you're being more cautious than needed because you've had some tough experiences in the past.

Some people like to say, and I think this is part of what Bobmi was saying, that determining if you really love someone enough to marry is like buying a yacht ("If you have to ask how much it is, you can't affort it."). If you're asking, then it may not yet be time. I think what they always meant was that "love" is a verb and when you have felt yourself acting on your love despite challenges and found your partner acting on his love despite challenges, it's pretty hard to miss all the signs coming together.

So, another long post from me, but let me end by saying I hope you're right, that it's time for the talk. But please, start it in the light of day when neither of you is feeling any afterglow. As romantic as you both may want this to be, you also want to be speaking with clear minds.

Chele - It's great to hear you have found someone who is truly right for you and vice versa. I am young, and I have a ton of women to meet, but the last few just haven't clicked on the level you describe, and it gives me such a good feeling in my heart. Thanks for that and congrats.

I think if you know you need to have this talk then just go for it. I wouldn't do it at a dinner, or right before things are going to get hot and heavy. I'd imagine it's perfect right after dinner when you guys are in sweatpants and a sweatshirt and you are all cozy and cuddling and talk it through. Though none of this really matters because both of your feelings will not change despite the time or the place or the setting, though obviously, it would help if your not in a bad mood or something

Good luck and keep us updated.

Does any other girl here ever wonder why they've met very few guys like Bobmi? Great answer.

crazybbwgirl said:

Does any other girl here ever wonder why they've met very few guys like Bobmi? Great answer.

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ROFL!

Guys like myself are out there.

Where are we? We're right under your nose girls.

On behalf of my brothers, let me tell you where to find guys like me.

We're the nerds, the geeks, the dweebs and dorks, the ones that people thought were strange in high school, or wierd. We aren't very graceful around women, you scare us, you make us tongue twisted. And as much as we might fantasize about you, we'd never dream of making the first move.

We're hiding in places you don't expect to find us. We're part of the background, the nerds that come to fix your computer. Or the "nice" geeky guy down the block that helps you take out your trash, or the guy you think of like a brother.

We're out there hiding as the guy that offers to fix your stereo or your car, just so he can be close to you. But he's terrified to make a move. He's happy spending his life admiring you from afar because the few times he actually asked a girl for a date in high school, he was turned down, laughed at. He'd rather eat dirt than have the object of his desires turn him down, or worse, laugh at his feeble efforts. As he gets older he might get a little bolder, but generally if you want him, you have to go get him.

He's the geek, the nerd, the wallflower that took his sister to the prom, if he went at all. He's the one you tell your friends is "really sweet and dependable". But you'd rather go out with the guy that has the new car, or the jock, or the bad boy.

We're the guys that love to talk about sex, or without a seconds notice, start expounding on the current theories of the nature of the universe. Nerds can't be found at the stadium watching the game, we won't be found in the singles bar, but we are out there.

Wow! & WOW!

To both Bobmi posts here.
SO well said! And TRUE, too.
I'm watching "Joan of Arcadia" as I write this. It is slow moving, but I think people see themselves in the nerds and characters in this show. Once someone gets to know the person under the exterior shell, a whole new world is opened up.

obtw, Bobmi, did you see the PBS special a couple of weeks ago about String theory?

Re: Wow! & WOW!

MagicFingers said:

obtw, Bobmi, did you see the PBS special a couple of weeks ago about String theory?

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I'm afraid I missed that one. Our satellite link is offline for a while. And because we live in what they call a "fringe" area, they say we can't qualify for network stations, including the spokane pbs station.

We live about 70-80 miles from spokane, closer to 90 miles by road, but there is a mountain range between us and the city. However they (the satellite companies) judge the fringes by distance, not the fact that we can't pick up the local networks.

Grrrrrrrrrr

Hear Hear Bobmi357!!

I concur on all of your points here. Sheesh, I was a toungue twisted, shy, hot-under the collar when talking to women type of guy when I was younger. Thank god the woman of my life, now my wife, saw through it and perservered!

The caring, thoughtful guys are out there as Bobmi357 said, its just that they are the ones that don't draw attention to themselves!

Sorry for taking your thread off topic Chele!

Speaking of the topic, I think things must be going great when you just enjoy each others company! I don't know, maybe a talk isnt necessary, after all actions speak louder than words.

Raaa

Ps, aint love the best?

Bobmi357 said:

ROFL!
Guys like myself are out there.
Where are we? We're right under your nose girls.
On behalf of my brothers, let me tell you where to find guys like me. ...............

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So very true. I have been lucky enough to find myself a nerd. But you are an exceptionally well spoken guy. And though I don't always agree with your view point I always enjoy reading your posts..

ps - I saw the 'thread theory' on PBS - I was lost pretty early on - but I kept trying!

ok - sorry for the highjack.......

Chele, I'm in a similar situation as you... I've been dating a man for almost a year... and I've come to the decision to just enjoy things as they come. I know how I feel about him and I know he's on my wavelength. I enjoy him and give him the space he may or may not need. His mother keeps bugging me to monopolize his off-time... and we DO spend our off time together, however, I DON'T monopolize it.

I have been tempted to tell him I love him quite a few times, but I don't want to screw up what we have... (which still isn't really very clear at this point) I just know I like it. I'd be miserable without him in my life.

As to when to have the talk... well I have to agree with Bobmi, isn't "I love you " enough? The future will happen whether we try to figure it out or not.

If you're past the "I love you" stage and are wondering when/what the next step is, just ask. How about starting by saying, "So, I've been thinking about the two of us and I'm happy... frighteningly happy... and I was wondering if we are leading into a more serious commitment or shall we just stick with the status quo?" Of course I'm very direct, so if you aren't... this may not help. I've come to this conclusion though, Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I'm also really blessed. My man has been pretty great when the need for talking or problem solving has come up. It's happened about 3 times in a year and all 3 times I was really really scared... and when all has been said and done, I've stopped and thought, "wow, I wonder if it will always be this easy?"

I wish you all the luck in the world.

lilpriss said:

I have been tempted to tell him I love him quite a few times, but I don't want to screw up what we have... (which still isn't really very clear at this point) I just know I like it. I'd be miserable without him in my life.

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Lilpriss,
What is the big deal about telling your man you love him? Sure its a signal that you may be willing to move the relationship to a new phase, but its also the greatest compliment a person can give to another person. Saying "I love you" is not saying "I love you, want to live with you, want to be mother/father to dozens of your children, share bills together, vacation, eat and die together".
It means "I love you" and "Perhaps we're ready to think about what direction we're going with this relationship".

Let me put it bluntly ladies and gentlemen. In every relationship, SOMEONE has to be the one to break that "L" barrier and say it first. If both parties skitter around it, avoiding it like its got cooties, sooner or later someone's gonna start thinking the other person refuses to commit, and thus will start the downward trend in the relationship.

Love is being vunerable to another. Love means stripping away your armor and trusting that the other person won't hurt you while your defenseless. Love is like a lottery. If you don't take the chance, you can't win it.

Think about it Lilpriss. If you love someone, how can you not tell them? When I fell for my second wife I wanted to shout it out to the rooftops, as well as spending all day whispering it in her ear. You only live once in this life (unless you're a Bhuddist), and life is far to short to worry about who is going to be first. Say it, get it out in the open for both of you to see, and see where it takes you.

Thanks for the encouragement, Bobmi...

And yes, you and I understand that telling him I love him doesn't mean I'm psycho and intend on attaching myself to this man like glue... However, I'll know when the time is right. And at that point it will happen. More likely sooner than later.

Some people do tend to put more into that statement than they should, which is why so many avoid it like the plague.

So very true.

Guys like myself are out there.

Where are we? We're right under your nose girls.

On behalf of my brothers, let me tell you where to find guys like me.

We're the nerds, the geeks, the dweebs and dorks, the ones that people thought were strange in high school, or wierd. We aren't very graceful around women, you scare us, you make us tongue twisted. And as much as we might fantasize about you, we'd never dream of making the first move.

We're hiding in places you don't expect to find us. We're part of the background, the nerds that come to fix your computer. Or the "nice" geeky guy down the block that helps you take out your trash, or the guy you think of like a brother.

We're out there hiding as the guy that offers to fix your stereo or your car, just so he can be close to you. But he's terrified to make a move. He's happy spending his life admiring you from afar because the few times he actually asked a girl for a date in high school, he was turned down, laughed at. He'd rather eat dirt than have the object of his desires turn him down, or worse, laugh at his feeble efforts. As he gets older he might get a little bolder, but generally if you want him, you have to go get him.

He's the geek, the nerd, the wallflower that took his sister to the prom, if he went at all. He's the one you tell your friends is "really sweet and dependable". But you'd rather go out with the guy that has the new car, or the jock, or the bad boy.

We're the guys that love to talk about sex, or without a seconds notice, start expounding on the current theories of the nature of the universe. Nerds can't be found at the stadium watching the game, we won't be found in the singles bar, but we are out there.


So very true Bobmi. We are the ones wondering why so many gorgeous intellegent women are still attached to their men when they treat them like shit.

Re: So very true.

ren hoek said:

So very true Bobmi. We are the ones wondering why so many gorgeous intellegent women are still attached to their men when they treat them like shit.

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Not that IS another thread entirely. Why do women stay with the "bad boy" when there is probably a dozen great guys out there that would worship the ground they walk on?

This is something that has bothered me for a long long time because I've seen it so many times.

There was Barbara, older, but she had a beauty that bordered on elegance. In love with a married man that had no intention of ever leaving his wife for her. She was merely a convenient fuck for him, and he treated her that way and worse still, she accepted it.

There was Francine, young, built for loving and married to a man that beat her. I found out about that one accidently when I touched her on her shoulder and she winced in pain. He made sure to mark her in places where she could hide it. I spent hours trying to talk her into getting help and reporting him. But she wouldn't. She "loved" him.

Those are just two examples of more than a dozen women I have known over the years. Each had a story of some sort of bad relationship that they stayed in.

Why for gods sake do women (a) fall in love with these assholes, and (b) stay with him?

There are millions of decent guys out there, but time and time again, I see woman attaching themselves to total losers. I just don't get it.....

They fall in love with them because they are exciting and spontaneous and know how to do things to drive them wild in a really good way (like being indifferent to the girl, which makes the girl want them more)

A summation of much of what has been shared by posts thus far is found in one word.. vulnerability. In the aspect of opening up of ones self to another. Which potentially could lead to rejection or greater acceptance by or with another. From past hurts in similiar situations in ones history it can become harder to take such leaps again.

In this anxiety potentially builds to great degrees of exponential stress. And exercises such as were previously posted among many can be very healthy to cope. With one of the best exercises to do often is to take time in really getting to know the other person. And in doing so really get to know ones self better in needs, wants and associated comfort levels.

Taking time with most things is generally beneficient. Yet as to when its to early or to late to say " I love you ". That time is known when looking in to anothers eyes and see they love you.

So Chele did you have the talk? How did it go?

I used to date a guy (physics major, etc.) who had great legs. We could talk about anything, from SF to movies to many different theories of nature, etc., etc. I don't have that particular version of talking with my husband because he's the outwardly-bouncy and charismatic artist and computer (Mac) sort of "nerd" who had a darker, more brooding (and shy) side no one else ever seemed to see. But I always saw it, and I always "knew" him, seeing through the veneers... whether or not he'd let himself admit it. I made the mistake of sending him home the night we had a date of a late night dinner at Byerly's and butter-n-sugar lefse at my apartment, just to help a friend who "needed me more" on the phone. That one ended up coming over, and staying so late it wasn't safe to drive home. Stupid me, I let him stay; and long story short, I married that one first. We were meant only to be friends, and probably only short-term ones at that.

But I found myself maintaining that friendship with my now-hubby; and even with separations of his girlfriends and one spat that led to a six-month no-talking period, I just couldn't let him go. I realized that I couldn't look outside my relationship with the first hubby if I was truly in love with him. And I was looking, and repeatedly so, at the man I'm married to now. Needless to say, with lots of pain and strength (on my part) and self-analysis of just who and what I was and wanted to be and what I wanted out of life and some stupid mistakes, too, I ended the first marriage. It didn't take long before hubby and I were inseparable, then preggy and married. We now have two toddlers, a mortgage, unemployment, stress.... It's not easy; but we know we care enough about being together to keep the work up that maintains and continues a relationship.

I can't - the thought of not having him there, on any level - it almost leads to panic. Of course I would learn to cope, to manage, to survive. That doesn't mean I wouldn't miss him so terribly I'd hurt every moment of every day.

And (sorry to hijack here) just a few minutes ago, he finished watching the repeat of this last week's episode on string theory. Basically because he knows it's important to me.... Einstein's Wife, Space Tethers & Elevators, Science Fiction, universe theory, underground and alternative homes, monolithic dome homes, Trading Spaces, Carol Duvall... the list is long! He becomes genuinely interested in these things; yet I know if life had worked a different direction, he'd be fairly happy in the more "usual" interests a "normal wife" would probably have. We are pretty happy with him being a fanboy and me being a fangirl, though. (HK movies, anime, animation, comics, etc.!)

But one thing he's always done to me, without even realizing he's been doing it. He makes me feel good about me. And he supports me being me, even if it's not his interest and most likely even if it involves following me for my career and goals. I recently had the epiphany of realizing that that date, so long ago? I made him eat lefse - and the right way, with thinly-spread butter and just a bare sprinkling of sugar - I did it because it is important to me, and I wanted this someone who was important to me to share that important thing with me.

And sorry for being so long-winded, folks; but Bobmi, and others - you're right. When it's the time, it's the time, and it's easy to say the "I LOVE You" and plan your lives together. It really is.

My goodness! What a most pleasant surprise! Please, all who have responded, forgive my absence - it was certainly not on purpose.

First, I never mind folks "highjacking" my threads as long as others can learn something. I've appreciated all who have shared here.

Second, uh, no we didn't have "the talk" this past weekend. My period was due to start and I sometimes get a little moody and always very emotional, and I figured the last thing this man wanted was a woman who was asking him where he wanted the relationship to go in between bouts of crying jags! (On a plus note, he did notice that I wasn't my usual "self" and even asked what was wrong! Now, that was a switch!)

As to why I would "need" to have this talk? Easy. In past relationships I've always simply made assumptions - and those assumptions have never worked out. Now, I believe in spelling things out, knowing exactly what the expectations are. They might not be what my expectations would be, but I still want to know them. The reason for the difficulty? Wulf said it so well: vulnerability. When I was young and before I knew what it was like to have your heart ripped out and pride stomped on, it was easy to say "I love you" and making future plans. Now, I'm far more cautious and assume almost nothing. (Heck, we've never stated that we are monogamous, and though I am faithful to him and have no reason to doubt he is to me, until it is stated I consider him [and I] to be pretty much free to date others.) I know that, due to his past relationships, he is also very cautious and vulnerable as well. It was very, very difficult for him to tell me that he loves me. And now that he has, he never says it casually or as an off-remark. He says it when he means it. It may not sound "romantic" to be with a man who doesn't say "I love you" every 15 minutes, but it is somehow more comforting to know that when he says it, he truly means it.

Uh, where was I? Sorry about that! I'm hoping our weekend plans will include time just for the two of us (more and more we are doing things that involve friends and family lately), and I will probably bring up the status of the relationship then. Knowing me, I'll get this whole long-winded conversation in my head, and in reality the whole thing will be over in less than 15 minutes! I'll keep y'all posted.

As to the bad boy/nice guy syndrome, I really can't explain it. I've lived it, and it's hell. But why did I do that? I've not a clue. What I will say is that the man I'm with now is not one I would have normally dated. He's quiet, shy, stable, would rather stay home and watch videos, never does the clubs kind of guy. When he says he's going out with the guys it usually means he's going with to the batting cages with the guys he plays softball with. And he calls me as soon as he gets home. He doesn't like strip clubs at all or anything of that sort. (Though he will admit to a good looking woman - if I point her out to him first!) Now, why would I not have dated this man when I was younger? Because he would have seemed, well, rather boring. And passion. Where is the passion!?!?! Is he even sexual? Does he even know what sex is?

Yeah, I got a few lessons in that department as well! Even though this man does not get passionate about issues in everyday life (unlike me!), the bedroom is a whole 'nuther matter. He is passionate, caring, open, and adventurous.

So, the problem, as I see it? Too much judging a book by its cover, I think. At least for me. Yes, I dated men who were like roller coasters - and the ride was something else. But roller coasters are great for the 60 seconds you're on one. Living on one is hell. Still, those men can be addictive. Yet, now that I found a man who can be like a still lake (and still waters do run deep!), I'm finding I much more enjoy the tranquility and stability that this relationship affords.

I think most women find these things out eventually. It took me a hell of a long time, I know. But to all the nice guys out there? There are women who appreciate all you have to offer. Don't ever think you need to change. Once a woman gets off that roller coaster she's going to need a place of refuge!

Now, why would I not have dated this man when I was younger? Because he would have seemed, well, rather boring. And passion. Where is the passion!?!?! Is he even sexual? Does he even know what sex is?

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Yes Chele, nerds look to be very boring from all outward appearances. You won't find us at an extreme skiing tournament (unless he's webmastering for the event). You won't find us at the bars.

He's home, watching a video, or playing Diablo or thinking about sex. We nerds think about sex a lot. We have two things on our minds. Our main interest, computers, science, whatever, and SEX.

Jocks think about sports.
Yuppies think about business.
Nerds, its computers and sex sex sex....

We ARE boring, we'd rather spend a nice quiet evening home with you than spend it in some bar where the music is so loud you can't think, and the drinks cost more than you make in a week.

We like watching videos, or playing video games. It might not be a big deal to others, but building a level 80 Diablo II Character is an achievement. AND ladies, in case you didn't know it, with all this stay at home desires, Nerds aren't the type to stray from the homebed. 2am and your man isn't in bed with you? Well if he's a nerd, he's probably in the next room, at the computer playing Ultima, or Diablo, or programming.

Nerds learn a valuable lesson very early in life. Much earlier than most other guys. We learn that women are people and not just a place to sink a dick. Women fascinate and scare us. We don't deal well with people in general, and women make us nervous.

Nerds are intense people. We tend to tightly focus on something of interest. AND that includes sex. Scratch a nerd and underneath you'll find a veritible encylopedia of sex hiding underneath that boring exterior.

Love a nerd and you'll find yourself in love with a person that is (a) ALWAYS mindful of your feelings and wellbeing, and (b) always lusting FOR YOU.

I am a nerd. I am one of the original nerds, I got into the personal computer revolution back in 1975 when computers were unheard of in the home. I had THREE of them. I walked around with a calculator clipped to my belt and a pocket protector in my shirt. And all of my fufillable fantasies are of things I'd like to do with or to my wife. 10 years of marriage later and I still lust for her. I am a married nerd and proud of it.

NERDS OF AMERICA UNITE!!!

oops... sorry, got carried away..