Someone Should Stab The Christian Coalition in the Face.

Joe Wordsworth

Logician
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Posts
4,085
Virginity or Death!

[from the May 30, 2005 issue]

Imagine a vaccine that would protect women from a serious gynecological cancer. Wouldn't that be great? Well, both Merck and GlaxoSmithKline recently announced that they have conducted successful trials of vaccines that protect against the human papilloma virus. HPV is not only an incredibly widespread sexually transmitted infection but is responsible for at least 70 percent of cases of cervical cancer, which is diagnosed in 10,000 American women a year and kills 4,000. Wonderful, you are probably thinking, all we need to do is vaccinate girls (and boys too for good measure) before they become sexually active, around puberty, and HPV--and, in thirty or forty years, seven in ten cases of cervical cancer--goes poof. Not so fast: We're living in God's country now. The Christian right doesn't like the sound of this vaccine at all. "Giving the HPV vaccine to young women could be potentially harmful," Bridget Maher of the Family Research Council told the British magazine New Scientist, "because they may see it as a license to engage in premarital sex." Raise your hand if you think that what is keeping girls virgins now is the threat of getting cervical cancer when they are 60 from a disease they've probably never heard of.

I remember when people rolled their eyeballs if you suggested that opposition to abortion was less about "life" than about sex, especially sex for women. You have to admit that thesis is looking pretty solid these days. No matter what the consequences of sex--pregnancy, disease, death--abstinence for singles is the only answer. Just as it's better for gays to get AIDS than use condoms, it's better for a woman to get cancer than have sex before marriage. It's honor killing on the installment plan.

Christian conservatives have a special reason to be less than thrilled about the HPV vaccine. Although not as famous as chlamydia or herpes, HPV has the distinction of not being preventable by condoms. It's Exhibit A in those gory high school slide shows that try to scare kids away from sex, and it is also useful for undermining the case for rubbers generally--why bother when you could get HPV anyway? In 2000, Congressman (now Senator) Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, who used to give gruesome lectures on HPV for young Congressional aides, even used HPV to propose warning labels on condoms. With HPV potentially eliminated, the antisex brigade will lose a card it has regarded as a trump unless it can persuade parents that vaccinating their daughters will turn them into tramps, and that sex today is worse than cancer tomorrow. According to New Scientist, 80 percent of parents want the vaccine for their daughters--but their priests and pastors haven't worked them over yet.

What is it with these right-wing Christians? Faced with a choice between sex and death, they choose death every time. No sex ed or contraception for teens, no sex for the unwed, no condoms for gays, no abortion for anyone--even for that poor 13-year-old pregnant girl in a group home in Florida. I would really like to hear the persuasive argument that this middle-schooler with no home and no family would have been better off giving birth against her will, and that the State of Florida, which totally failed to keep her safe, should have been allowed, against its own laws, to compel this child to bear a child. She was too young to have sex, too young to know her own mind about abortion--but not too young to be forced onto the delivery table for one of the most painful experiences human beings endure, in which the risk of death for her was three times as great as in abortion. Ah, Christian compassion! Christian sadism, more likely. It was the courts that showed humanity when they let the girl terminate her pregnancy.

As they flex their political muscle, right-wing Christians increasingly reveal their condescending view of women as moral children who need to be kept in line sexually by fear. That's why antichoicers will never answer the call of prochoicers to join them in reducing abortions by making birth control more widely available: They want it to be less available. Their real interest goes way beyond protecting fetuses--it's in keeping sex tied to reproduction to keep women in their place. If preventing abortion was what they cared about, they'd be giving birth control and emergency contraception away on street corners instead of supporting pharmacists who refuse to fill prescriptions and hospitals that don't tell rape victims about the existence of EC. David Hager (see Ayelish McGarvey's stunning exposé, and keep in mind that unlike godless me she is a churchgoing evangelical Christian) would never use his position with the FDA to impose his personal views of sexual morality on women in crisis. Instead of blocking nonprescription status for emergency contraception on the specious grounds that it will encourage teen promiscuity, he would take note of the six studies, three including teens, that show no relation between sexual activity and access to EC. He would be calling the loudest for Plan B to be stocked with the toothpaste in every drugstore in the land. How sexist is denial of Plan B? Antichoicers may pooh-pooh the effectiveness of condoms, but they aren't calling to restrict their sale in order to keep boys chaste.

While the FDA dithers, the case against selling EC over the counter weakens by the day. Besides the now exploded argument that it will let teens run wild, opponents argue that it prevents implantation of a fertilized egg--which would make it an "abortifacient" if you believe that pregnancy begins when sperm and egg unite. However, new research by the Population Council shows that EC doesn't work by blocking implantation; it only prevents ovulation. True, it's not possible to say it never blocks implantation, James Trussell, director of the Office of Population Research at Princeton, told me, and to antichoice hard-liners once in a thousand times is enough. But then, many things can block implantation, including breast-feeding. Are the reverends going to come out for formula-feeding now?

"It all comes down to the evils of sex," says Trussell. "That's an ideological position impervious to empirical evidence."
 
*heavy sigh* Everytime I read something like this I feel like I'm living in The Dark Ages.
 
Maybe we should stop treating syphillis, gonhorrea, and all the other STD's we already have treatments for, too. That'll stop those heathens from having sex!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Tom Collins said:
*heavy sigh* Everytime I read something like this I feel like I'm living in The Dark Ages.


IN the dark ages, peope didn't know better. this is worse. It' sone thing to be ignorant. Another to be intentionally ignorant.

But that's what you have. People who prefer to be ignorant than to investigate, think, and reason.

Dim ages would be more approriate :rolleyes:
 
I for one am not surprised by this in the least. It sickens me, but I am not surprised.
 
Apologies for not being serious.

That is the funniest thread title ever.
 
Colleen Thomas said:
IN the dark ages, peope didn't know better. this is worse. It' sone thing to be ignorant. Another to be intentionally ignorant.

But that's what you have. People who prefer to be ignorant than to investigate, think, and reason.

Dim ages would be more approriate :rolleyes:
Hmmm...how 'bout "The Thick Ages"?
 
You don't beat around the bush with your thread titles do ya? ;)

This is sad, so very sad. It gives Christianity such a bad name.

Sex is sex. I remember over hearing my mum talking at a prayer group at my home one time. I don't know exactly what was being talked about, I think it was a bit of gossip about someone having an affair. Anyway, my mum said something that has always stuck with me, and it was something like this.

"God isn't bothered about sex, it's natural, it's just sex. What is a sin is the damage associated with such things. It's the hurting another person, the lies, the deceit etc that is the thing God's not happy about."

Why some crazies decide sex is evil, i don't know. It does so much damage. Where i used to live i remember an article about pro lifers blocking the way to the local brooke advisory centre. People who needed, help, advice, contraception maybe even terminations were intimidated into not going for it. What gives those people the right to make someone else's decision for them?

It angers me, it really, really does. Sex isn't evil, but it can be dangerous. Teens do need to be taught that there are consequences to their actions, not kept in the dark or scared into not having sex. They need all the info so they can make their own decisions.

And why, why anyone can see anything bad in vaccinating against a killer cancer I just do not know. It's madness.
 
Personally, I have no use for fundamentalists of any religion. The so-called "Christians" described here would be the Taliban of the US if they could be. They are pretty close to it as it is.
 
Joe Wordsworth said:
Virginity or Death!

[from the May 30, 2005 issue]

Imagine a vaccine that would protect women from a serious gynecological cancer. Wouldn't that be great? Well, both Merck and GlaxoSmithKline recently announced that they have conducted successful trials of vaccines that protect against the human papilloma virus.
Bottom line...it's all about the money. I wouldn't be surprised if the drug companys were using the CC as a smoke screen to take the heat off themselves just to buy a little more time to bait a few more people in, you can't buy that kind of publicity. The medical community says there's no cure for genital herpes, the holistic/natural
group says there is...who's right? Healthy people and dead people don't make money for doctors/ drug companys, IMO they want you sick and barely alive so you keep buying their product.
 
English Lady said:
You don't beat around the bush with your thread titles do ya? ;)

This is sad, so very sad. It gives Christianity such a bad name.

Sex is sex. I remember over hearing my mum talking at a prayer group at my home one time. I don't know exactly what was being talked about, I think it was a bit of gossip about someone having an affair. Anyway, my mum said something that has always stuck with me, and it was something like this.

"God isn't bothered about sex, it's natural, it's just sex. What is a sin is the damage associated with such things. It's the hurting another person, the lies, the deceit etc that is the thing God's not happy about."

Why some crazies decide sex is evil, i don't know. It does so much damage. Where i used to live i remember an article about pro lifers blocking the way to the local brooke advisory centre. People who needed, help, advice, contraception maybe even terminations were intimidated into not going for it. What gives those people the right to make someone else's decision for them?

It angers me, it really, really does. Sex isn't evil, but it can be dangerous. Teens do need to be taught that there are consequences to their actions, not kept in the dark or scared into not having sex. They need all the info so they can make their own decisions.

And why, why anyone can see anything bad in vaccinating against a killer cancer I just do not know. It's madness.

EL - what a terrific post.

I remember my pastor once giving a sermon about the importance of sex. Yes, it was touted as in marriage, but it was a very serious discussion about what a solid part of a God-loving relationship sex should be. A sort of X-rated sermon, he said, before he began.

He didn't say it should only happen in marriage, though. That was very vague, for which I was glad. In just a general way you felt he was referring to male/female couple and married.

Of course we should have sex. Look at the way in which we are made. People who believe themselves to be solid Christians and yet pretend that sex doesn't exist are fools - OR they have ulterior motives.

(Edited to add - We have taste buds so food tastes good. We have pleasure centers so sex feels good. Yum.)
 
there was a thread going about Xtian ('pro life') opposition to contraception, and the groups opposing the ordinary 'pill'.

they claim that 'the pill' is part of a culture of death.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=428874

as the first posting says, the so called 'pro life' people (esp. Vatican) care primariliy about white male Catholics' lives. females have a secondary role, just as in the Mormon church.

'anti sex' is pretty close to the mark--since only sex in marriage, and for procreation is approved both by some Protestants and Catholics (officially).
---

The bitch about all this is that in this thread it's preaching to the choir. "pro life" people are reluctant to enter in. We should locate the forums they frequent and take the battle to them instead of patting ourselves on the back. Republicans reading this thread should make their voices heard in the Rep'n party.
 
Last edited:
English Lady said:
You don't beat around the bush with your thread titles do ya? ;)

This is sad, so very sad. It gives Christianity such a bad name.

Sex is sex. I remember over hearing my mum talking at a prayer group at my home one time. I don't know exactly what was being talked about, I think it was a bit of gossip about someone having an affair. Anyway, my mum said something that has always stuck with me, and it was something like this.

"God isn't bothered about sex, it's natural, it's just sex. What is a sin is the damage associated with such things. It's the hurting another person, the lies, the deceit etc that is the thing God's not happy about."

Why some crazies decide sex is evil, i don't know. It does so much damage. Where i used to live i remember an article about pro lifers blocking the way to the local brooke advisory centre. People who needed, help, advice, contraception maybe even terminations were intimidated into not going for it. What gives those people the right to make someone else's decision for them?

It angers me, it really, really does. Sex isn't evil, but it can be dangerous. Teens do need to be taught that there are consequences to their actions, not kept in the dark or scared into not having sex. They need all the info so they can make their own decisions.

And why, why anyone can see anything bad in vaccinating against a killer cancer I just do not know. It's madness.


The answer is control El. Control and power. Almost all of the far rightest are following a particular man. Not significantly different from Germany during the Weimar republic, save that most of the mini parties are to a certain exten co-religionists. Each little group works with the other little groups towards a common goal, which is enforcing their will on the world, in the name of God of course. They are also fighting private batles and mini turf wars, because they know when they triumph, they will have to assert their dominance to control the theocracy they have created, as their leader's vision is the only true one.

When it comes to the fanatics of this stripe, you aren't dealing with Christians, any more than you are dealing with Muslims when you talk about Alquedeah or Hammas. You're dealing with a political movement, that cloaks itself in religion to make an otherwise unpaletable program easier to swallow.

They want to control people's sex lives, because they want control of all aspects of people's lives. It's a political program that they expouse, despite the religious trappings they use. And if they succeed, you'll have a theocracy backed by a police state.

That's really the bottom line. They have coopted your religion as a screen. It's no woner that they subscribe far more to the old testament verses of retribution, prohibition and punishment, than they do to the NT verses about peace and love and forgiveness.
 
I hope you will excuse me, but I think you people are on the wrong track here. You are trying to attack religious/political organizations who will not listen. The correct strategy is to contact young women [18-year-old and up] in a one-on-one strategy and deliver the message in person!
 
sweetsubsarahh said:
EL - what a terrific post.

I remember my pastor once giving a sermon about the importance of sex. Yes, it was touted as in marriage, but it was a very serious discussion about what a solid part of a God-loving relationship sex should be. A sort of X-rated sermon, he said, before he began.

He didn't say it should only happen in marriage, though. That was very vague, for which I was glad. In just a general way you felt he was referring to male/female couple and married.

Of course we should have sex. Look at the way in which we are made. People who believe themselves to be solid Christians and yet pretend that sex doesn't exist are fools - OR they have ulterior motives.

(Edited to add - We have taste buds so food tastes good. We have pleasure centers so sex feels good. Yum.)

That sounds like a great thing, sex is so often glossed over and it shouldn't be - I like your pastor. :D We're definitely sex shy over here in the UK, I think the church needs to be vocal and needs to be teaching it's congregation about sex etc, it's an issue that every church should be comfortable with addressing.


Pure -we surely should be doing more than sitting here and saying how disgusted we are by this, but discussions like this are needed, I think, to get people really thinking about stuff , understanding a bit and getting different perspectives.

As you say, you're hardly likely to get a pro-lifer to wander in here and give an opinion, but I would be interested in hearing how they justify their actions to themselves.


Colly -That makes alot of sense and it's so very sad, because although you're right -they're using the faith as a kind of screen as a disguise to make themselves more palatable- people think they're actual Christians, which is a bugger, to put it mildly.

I hope people have the sense to realise they are extremists and as extremists their views are supported by a minority, their actions condoned by a minority.


Well, I can hope, can't I?
 
Colleen Thomas said:
They want to control people's sex lives, because they want control of all aspects of people's lives.

It's on this point I just don't agree. X because Y, in this case, just doesn't speak realistically to me.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colleen Thomas
They want to control people's sex lives, because they want control of all aspects of people's lives.


Joe Wordsworth said:
It's on this point I just don't agree. X because Y, in this case, just doesn't speak realistically to me.

I am inclined to believe there are a few very high profile persons, such as Pat Robertson and others of his ilk, who really do hunger for control over their countrymen. They dote on the feelings of power it gives them. They might be comparable to Mullah Omar. Then there are millions more people who do as they are told to do by Robertson et al because of their empty-headed devotion and because they think people should be prevented from doing "bad things". "Bad things", of course, are what the American Taliban say are bad things.

I don't believe the American mullahs will ever be able to hold as much power as their opposite numbers have elsewhere because people in the US are too educated and too accustomed to speaking their own minds to allow it. The only reason they have as much power as they have is that the president is such a chucklehead, and that he agrees with them so much. The next person in the oval office will be able to undo most of the bungling and violations of the Constitution that has been done in the last five plus years, which will be eight years by then. The bungling I refer to is just the subject of this thread.
 
Boxlicker101 said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colleen Thomas
They want to control people's sex lives, because they want control of all aspects of people's lives.




I am inclined to believe there are a few very high profile persons, such as Pat Robertson and others of his ilk, who really do hunger for control over their countrymen. They dote on the feelings of power it gives them. They might be comparable to Mullah Omar. Then there are millions more people who do as they are told to do by Robertson et al because of their empty-headed devotion and because they think people should be prevented from doing "bad things". "Bad things", of course, are what the American Taliban say are bad things.

I don't believe the American mullahs will ever be able to hold as much power as their opposite numbers have elsewhere because people in the US are too educated and too accustomed to speaking their own minds to allow it. The only reason they have as much power as they have is that the president is such a chucklehead, and that he agrees with them so much. The next person in the oval office will be able to undo most of the bungling and violations of the Constitution that has been done in the last five plus years, which will be eight years by then. The bungling I refer to is just the subject of this thread.

I just find it presumptuous and beyond the facts. Too personal an interpretation of action when there are clearly apparent reasons that fit the data.

That's just me, though.

I think people like Pat Robertson are working from a spiritually-dependant set of ethics--I just don't agree with them. I don't think they're power-hungry or essentially desirous of world domination or anything.
 
*shrug*

Darwinism at work.

.... okay, maybe that's a little cold, but don't worry, they don't believe in evolution either.

What they refuse to know can't hurt them...

Sincerely,
ElSol
 
sweetsubsarahh said:
EL - what a terrific post.

I remember my pastor once giving a sermon about the importance of sex. Yes, it was touted as in marriage, but it was a very serious discussion about what a solid part of a God-loving relationship sex should be. A sort of X-rated sermon, he said, before he began.

He didn't say it should only happen in marriage, though. That was very vague, for which I was glad. In just a general way you felt he was referring to male/female couple and married.

Of course we should have sex. Look at the way in which we are made. People who believe themselves to be solid Christians and yet pretend that sex doesn't exist are fools - OR they have ulterior motives.

(Edited to add - We have taste buds so food tastes good. We have pleasure centers so sex feels good. Yum.)


While a number of the younger priests I've met share similar views, I quit going to mass after one too many lectures on how I couldn't be a Catholic without actively working to make abortion illegal. Sounds like you have an enlightened pastor.
 
wazhazhe said:
While a number of the younger priests I've met share similar views, I quit going to mass after one too many lectures on how I couldn't be a Catholic without actively working to make abortion illegal. Sounds like you have an enlightened pastor.
My favorite priest has the opinion that man's law hasn't anything to do with him. He discourages his congregation to support abortion, discourages women to have them, and give them a wide berth to do what they want.

Of course, when pressed, his answer to "pro-life" is that he'd just rather be careful--killing a fetus, for him, is too much like killing a baby. He errs on the ethical side of "encouraging it might be encouraging the dismissal of life".

Nice guy.
 
Colleen Thomas said:
When it comes to the fanatics of this stripe, you aren't dealing with Christians, any more than you are dealing with Muslims when you talk about Alquedeah or Hammas. You're dealing with a political movement, that cloaks itself in religion to make an otherwise unpaletable program easier to swallow.

They want to control people's sex lives, because they want control of all aspects of people's lives. It's a political program that they expouse, despite the religious trappings they use. And if they succeed, you'll have a theocracy backed by a police state.

I couldn't agree more. Robertson, Falwell, Roberts, et al are attempting to model America in their vision. They want to do politically what they can't do from the pulpit. Through legislation and appellate court decisions, they want to legally force Americans to act in the manner they think best. While abortion maybe their primary issue at the moment, their secondary goals are4 to censor what we say, hear and see at the local level as well as nationally. As Colly said, their goals are political; religion is just the tool they use to accomplish those goals.
 
wazhazhe said:
I couldn't agree more. Robertson, Falwell, Roberts, et al are attempting to model America in their vision. They want to do politically what they can't do from the pulpit. Through legislation and appellate court decisions, they want to legally force Americans to act in the manner they think best. While abortion maybe their primary issue at the moment, their secondary goals are4 to censor what we say, hear and see at the local level as well as nationally. As Colly said, their goals are political; religion is just the tool they use to accomplish those goals.
I maintain their goals are religious... and they're using politics to enforce it. The other way around just doesn't have enough evidence.
 
Joe Wordsworth said:
My favorite priest has the opinion that man's law hasn't anything to do with him. He discourages his congregation to support abortion, discourages women to have them, and give them a wide berth to do what they want.

Of course, when pressed, his answer to "pro-life" is that he'd just rather be careful--killing a fetus, for him, is too much like killing a baby. He errs on the ethical side of "encouraging it might be encouraging the dismissal of life".

Nice guy.

I've known quite a few priests like this one. Their emphasis is on how you live your life; having respect and kindness towards yourself and others. Like your priest, if pressed they will quote the official church position but they encourage people to think for them selves. They advise rather than tell you what to do.

I live in another state now and have heard good things about a nearby church. I’m considering giving it a try. .
 
Joe Wordsworth said:
My favorite priest has the opinion that man's law hasn't anything to do with him. He discourages his congregation to support abortion, discourages women to have them, and give them a wide berth to do what they want.

Of course, when pressed, his answer to "pro-life" is that he'd just rather be careful--killing a fetus, for him, is too much like killing a baby. He errs on the ethical side of "encouraging it might be encouraging the dismissal of life".

Nice guy.


He's a damn good priest then.

And Wazhazhe -I love the AV - My dd kept racing greyhounds when i was a kid, so I've loved greyhounds and whippets ever since -lovely dogs they are :)

/slight thread jack
 
Back
Top