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Women are all whores

chris9 said:
As long as you ARE among CONSENTING adults being with more than one partner (or having multiple play-mates) is not a problem.
If my SO says that he would love a second woman in bed, I'll think about it. If I feel I can share him and we find someone we both find hot it might happen. If he wants to have several women for life, married, serious relationship, kids, house, everything, he will have to find a different gal than me.
I really can't imagine how anyone can live with several partners without multiplying all problems. It's hard enough to work through problems, time issues, money lacking in one relationship.

And I don't think that there are many out there who can be happy with as many sex mates as their hearts (or other body parts) desire on the long run. Those older than me people (like aunts and such) that are alone, without partner and kids, seem older, more stressed, unhappy.
Click to expand...

Again, that depends on the individual. I wasn't necessarily advocating polygamy as such, but it works for some people. For others, swinging makes more sense. I'm more of a swinger right now. However, my point was that most people don't really desire to swear off all other sex partners but one.

Are there people that have a hard time with this? Certainly. But most of it is social conditioning, expectations, etc. Even the tendency to cheat (which I deplore) is a reflection of the conflict between Nature and social mores. Like I said, humanity is insane. We have put ourselves in a Catch 22 situation.
 
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Red Sonja said:
Hey... I am definitely not claiming that guys aren't looking for the quid pro quo too. Nor do I agree that this makes everyone a whore. I don't believe in unconditional love. All love comes with conditions.

I merely pointed out that this is the rhetoric of the radical feminist movement. I find it humorous that misogynists would utilize that rhetoric. It is, you have to admit, a bit ironic.
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Six months ago, I walked out of Victoria's Secret with a bag of goodies and faced a group of women protesters. One of them asked me directly: "Are you proud of the way you look in those clothes?"

I looked her right in the eyes and said, "Hell yes, I'm proud. Do you think I starve myself and hop on the treadmill every day for nothing?"

Her mouth dropped open, and she asked me, "WHY do you do that?" I leaned over and whispered, "Because my husband is more fun rock hard than limp. Duh!" Then I smiled sweetly and walked away.

Now, normally I am neither this obnoxious nor this crass. But it really pisses me off that someone would take a simple and obvious concept such as - women should be given the skills and opportunity to take care of themselves - and pervert it into the ridiculous notion that I should be ashamed for wearing lingerie. SHEESH!

No, I'm not a fan of radical feminism. But the feminist movement does contain concepts that are profoundly beneficial to women. And one of them is this: Life is not a fairytale. Prince Charming does not exist. The notion that some man will treasure and care for you always is not just idiotic, it is downright dangerous.

Is the problem that men are all assholes? Of course not. They are human, god help them. Just like us. We all have genetic wiring, and parents, and prior experiences, and - well, we are all just a big psychological mess! Every one of us.

You asked earlier why the concept of women as whores is offensive when men state it. It is not the idea itself that is offensive - it is the attempt to attach a pejorative connotation to it that I consider unacceptable.

Ladies, don't you see? If you let yourself be offended by the notion that you are a whore, you are buying into a ridiculous romantic ideal that has oppressed women for millennia.

Yes, I am a whore. But I am not really interested in a financial exchange, because I have the education and work experience to take care of myself. (Mr. Schmoe is incorrect. Men don't have all the money and sandwiches anymore.... and we can thank feminism for that too.)

I'm not just a whore, I'm proud of it. As I said before, there is nothing immoral in that statement. It is just plain common sense.

Alice
 
SEVERUSMAX said:
Again, that depends on the individual. I wasn't necessarily advocating polygamy as such, but it works for some people. For others, swinging makes more sense. I'm more of a swinger right now. However, my point was that most people don't really desire to swear off all other sex partners but one.

Are there people that have a hard time with this? Certainly. But most of it is social conditioning, expectations, etc. Even the tendency to cheat (which I deplore) is a reflection of the conflict between Nature and social mores. Like I said, humanity is insane. We have put ourselves in a Catch 22 situation.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's social conditioning, but necessary for survival. Yes, I'm getting to the 'women get pregnant' thing again. Human children take a very long time to grow up and become independent. No woman can afford to screw around, get pregnant from some guy and stay alone to raise her children. But then again, while men certainly aim at inseminating as many women as possible, yet they MUST make sure that those children survive to carry on their genes. And this can't be done without supporting the mother, staying with her, at least until said children are adults.
And from the increase in life-span we achieve, for the first humans there wasn't so very much time between having grown-up children and dying.
 
chris9 said:
I don't think it's social conditioning, but necessary for survival. Yes, I'm getting to the 'women get pregnant' thing again. Human children take a very long time to grow up and become independent. No woman can afford to screw around, get pregnant from some guy and stay alone to raise her children. But then again, while men certainly aim at inseminating as many women as possible, yet they MUST make sure that those children survive to carry on their genes. And this can't be done without supporting the mother, staying with her, at least until said children are adults.
And from the increase in life-span we achieve, for the first humans there wasn't so very much time between having grown-up children and dying.
Click to expand...

I personally think of it as more social convention. However, I respect your views. Again, supporting a child, staying with the mother, and being exclusive are different things. One MIGHT do all of that, if one wishes. However, only the first is really vital. I have no problem with the notion of birth control, in that, after a certain point, the number of children born becomes counter-productive. I would personally prefer to do the first 2, but not the 3rd. I just make a point of not lying about it AND of using a little device called a condom when with someone else. After all, invention is a part of human nature, too. :devil:

However, there have been men throughout history with harems. I'm not one to judge them, as long as they can provide for those harems.

Of course, there is always the other model: group marriage with both sexes well represented and shared responsibility for the children. A radical notion, but it does happen in rare cases.

Also, by supporting children, I mean emotionally as well as financially. That can be done by joint-custody, as much as possible. That brings up divorce, another example of how the nuclear family has often proved too rigid to be practical.
 
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INSIDEYOURMIND said:
Chest puffing? Are we now measured by our post and thread count?

I would have thought a moderator would carry themselves a bit above the others.

I hope at the end, I am known for more than the amount of posts I have, but at least I can say I have one in the triple digits, now my life is complete.

You should be very proud. The Taliban would be impressed.
Click to expand...
You know, some people might look at a guy who posts a photo of his naked wife tied to the bed on the Internet (to be viewed by any admiring or disparaging or leering person on the planet), and say: WHAT an asshole!

Now, I am not actually calling you an asshole here. There may a perfectly logical and decent explanation for your avatar. It's none of my business and, frankly, I really don't care. I am neither condemning you, nor asking you to explain.

All I am trying to do is to make a point.

There's a fair amount of hypocrisy involved in any one of us calling someone else a stupid asshole. Do you really know the person you are condemning? Have you walked in his shoes for his entire life? Can you honestly say you have a clear understanding of his motives and goals and feelings?

If not, then perhaps it is best to stick with disagreements over the issues, rather than personal criticism.

Just my opinion.
Alice
 
chris9 said:
I don't think it's social conditioning, but necessary for survival. Yes, I'm getting to the 'women get pregnant' thing again. Human children take a very long time to grow up and become independent. No woman can afford to screw around, get pregnant from some guy and stay alone to raise her children. But then again, while men certainly aim at inseminating as many women as possible, yet they MUST make sure that those children survive to carry on their genes. And this can't be done without supporting the mother, staying with her, at least until said children are adults.
And from the increase in life-span we achieve, for the first humans there wasn't so very much time between having grown-up children and dying.
Click to expand...

I respect and like you Chris9 but actually I disagree about what women and men have to do and can afford to do in regard to raising kids. I've been too close to these issues myself. I've also seen too much about the issues in other's lives.

Fury :rose:
 
chris9 said:
I don't think it's social conditioning, but necessary for survival. Yes, I'm getting to the 'women get pregnant' thing again. Human children take a very long time to grow up and become independent. No woman can afford to screw around, get pregnant from some guy and stay alone to raise her children. But then again, while men certainly aim at inseminating as many women as possible, yet they MUST make sure that those children survive to carry on their genes. And this can't be done without supporting the mother, staying with her, at least until said children are adults.
And from the increase in life-span we achieve, for the first humans there wasn't so very much time between having grown-up children and dying.
Click to expand...

The first part of this is correct. The second part, beginning with MUST, isn't--especially in the First World.

Over the years, I'm interested to see how my gut-level response to women changes. Once, seeing a sexy young woman of reproductive age in the street; I would have been flooded with a wave of need and desire. Now I look with strange detachment; the way you'd look at a beautiful flower with poison thorns. It's clear to me that (most) women exist for one purpose--to nest and breed. Obviously, this is important for the continuation of the species.
 
Marquis said:
I think I would do well as a deadbeat dad.
Click to expand...
I had one of those. He walked out the door when I was five, and never looked back.

I read in the newspaper that he died last year.

I said, "Good fucking riddance, you bastard"... and cried for the next three days.
 
alice_underneath said:
I had one of those. He walked out the door when I was five, and never looked back.

I read in the newspaper that he died last year.

I said, "Good fucking riddance, you bastard"... and cried for the next three days.
Click to expand...

:(

And that's why birth control was invented.

Edited to say, it is not my intention to say that Alice should not have been born. We like her. ;)
 
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alice_underneath said:
I had one of those. He walked out the door when I was five, and never looked back.

I read in the newspaper that he died last year.

I said, "Good fucking riddance, you bastard"... and cried for the next three days.
Click to expand...

You gotta be one of my favorite newbs, stick around.
 
alice_underneath said:
You know, some people might look at a guy who posts a photo of his naked wife tied to the bed on the Internet (to be viewed by any admiring or disparaging or leering person on the planet), and say: WHAT an asshole! ...............etc ect.......................... All I am trying to do is to make a point.
Click to expand...
i'd been following this thread while choosing not to participate, as the subject of discussion does not interest me enough to have added a reply. i'd been following it though, in that some of the replies are entertaining, and/or amusing. That said .......

i stay out of my Master's disagreements with others.
It's not, and never has been my style to stick my nose where i do not feel it belongs, whether i am the owned property of that person, or not. i really dislike anyone else taking it upon themselves to drag me into it anyway (and it's not the first time someone here has done so).

Some may agree that you've make a point, (although, my naked photos were displayed by me, of my own choice, as my own av long before it was displayed as my Master's .... though, you may not know this ..... as your 'join date' indicates that you are fairly new to the boards), and you're right, it's none of your business.

Beside the fact that people might be perceived as idiots for saying so, in that this is a sex forum on which that photo of me is posted, you might done better to have left me and my photo out of your comments, alice.

This thread has lost it's entertainment value, for me, in regard for what i find to be an example of amusing reading material. i'm quite 'done' here.
 
alice_underneath said:
Six months ago, I walked out of Victoria's Secret with a bag of goodies and faced a group of women protesters. One of them asked me directly: "Are you proud of the way you look in those clothes?"

I looked her right in the eyes and said, "Hell yes, I'm proud. Do you think I starve myself and hop on the treadmill every day for nothing?"

Her mouth dropped open, and she asked me, "WHY do you do that?" I leaned over and whispered, "Because my husband is more fun rock hard than limp. Duh!" Then I smiled sweetly and walked away.

Now, normally I am neither this obnoxious nor this crass. But it really pisses me off that someone would take a simple and obvious concept such as - women should be given the skills and opportunity to take care of themselves - and pervert it into the ridiculous notion that I should be ashamed for wearing lingerie. SHEESH!

No, I'm not a fan of radical feminism. But the feminist movement does contain concepts that are profoundly beneficial to women. And one of them is this: Life is not a fairytale. Prince Charming does not exist. The notion that some man will treasure and care for you always is not just idiotic, it is downright dangerous.

Is the problem that men are all assholes? Of course not. They are human, god help them. Just like us. We all have genetic wiring, and parents, and prior experiences, and - well, we are all just a big psychological mess! Every one of us.

You asked earlier why the concept of women as whores is offensive when men state it. It is not the idea itself that is offensive - it is the attempt to attach a pejorative connotation to it that I consider unacceptable.

Ladies, don't you see? If you let yourself be offended by the notion that you are a whore, you are buying into a ridiculous romantic ideal that has oppressed women for millennia.

Yes, I am a whore. But I am not really interested in a financial exchange, because I have the education and work experience to take care of myself. (Mr. Schmoe is incorrect. Men don't have all the money and sandwiches anymore.... and we can thank feminism for that too.)

I'm not just a whore, I'm proud of it. As I said before, there is nothing immoral in that statement. It is just plain common sense.

Alice
Click to expand...

Once again, don't like the word whore, but I agree with everything you just said. And I LOVE what you said to the moron outside victoria secret. I agree with marquis - stick around.

Oh, and I know what you mean about your dad. My dad has cancer, again. Even though he wasn't the worlds best dad, I'm gonna be very upset if it kills him this time. :(
 
rosco rathbone said:
:(

And that's why birth control was invented.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

And that's also why I stand up and applaud every time I see a guy with the self-awareness and honesty to say, "Kids aren't for me, and I'm not having them".

Good for you, Mr. Rathbone. I am impressed.
 
alice_underneath said:
Exactly.

And that's also why I stand up and applaud every time I see a guy with the self-awareness and honesty to say, "Kids aren't for me, and I'm not having them".

Good for you, Mr. Rathbone. I am impressed.
Click to expand...

The same with women. If more people were aware of whether they want children or not their'd be a lot less child abuse and neglect in this world. There is nothing in the world wrong with NOT having kids!

Another thing I wish people would think about is that if they have a child with someone they are gonna have to deal with that person for the next 18 years. If you aren't that thrilled with a person you're dating DON'T HAVE A CHILD WITH THEM. I mean for God's sake their's IUD's and the shot - neither require that you have to be using the brain in your head when having sex.
 
sinn0cent1 said:
i'd been following this thread while choosing not to participate, as the subject of discussion does not interest me enough to have added a reply. i'd been following it though, in that some of the replies are entertaining, and/or amusing. That said .......

i stay out of my Master's disagreements with others.
It's not, and never has been my style to stick my nose where i do not feel it belongs, whether i am the owned property of that person, or not. i really dislike anyone else taking it upon themselves to drag me into it anyway (and it's not the first time someone here has done so).

Some may agree that you've make a point, (although, my naked photos were displayed by me, of my own choice, as my own av long before it was displayed as my Master's .... though, you may not know this ..... as your 'join date' indicates that you are fairly new to the boards), and you're right, it's none of your business.

Beside the fact that people might be perceived as idiots for saying so, in that this is a sex forum on which that photo of me is posted, you might done better to have left me and my photo out of your comments, alice.

This thread has lost it's entertainment value, for me, in regard for what i find to be an example of amusing reading material. i'm quite 'done' here.
Click to expand...
I can see that my comments offended you, and for various reasons that surprises me quite a bit.

Let me reiterate what I said before: I was not condemning his posting of the photo.

I would also point out that I did not drag "you" into it. It is your husband's avatar, not yours.

However, since it is obvious that you have taken offense to my comments, I will apologize. Let me perfectly clear: I was not criticizing you in any way, shape, or form, and I am sincerely sorry for offending you.

Alice
 
graceanne said:
Once again, don't like the word whore, but I agree with everything you just said. And I LOVE what you said to the moron outside victoria secret. I agree with marquis - stick around.

Oh, and I know what you mean about your dad. My dad has cancer, again. Even though he wasn't the worlds best dad, I'm gonna be very upset if it kills him this time. :(
Click to expand...
Thank you, Graceanne. :rose:

I'm sorry to hear about your father's illness.

*hugs*

Alice
 
Marquis said:
You gotta be one of my favorite newbs, stick around.
Click to expand...
Marquis, you have completely made my day. :)

Thanks for starting this thread, I am enjoying it very much.

And I will "stick around", in general. At the moment, however, I have errands to run.

Take care, everybody.

Alice
 
alice_underneath said:
Thank you, Graceanne. :rose:

I'm sorry to hear about your father's illness.

*hugs*

Alice
Click to expand...

Thanks. It's weird. My stepdad's dad is a dead beat. He's dying and he contacted Tom to apologize and all that. Tom's probably more broke up about him dying than he would if Mike had been a great dad. It's one of those 'so many things to say and do' type things. When a involved dad dies at least you've got good memories. When an absent dad dies all you have is regrets.

I haven't lived with my dad since I was 5. (And he'd been in Germany - the army- from the time I was 2 till I was 5.) He was gone for two years after that and since thta I've spent a month out of every year with him. And even that wasn't that great. If you look 'emotionally unavailable' up in the dictionary you'll find a picture of him. Their's so much I wish that I know will never happen.
 
Deadbeats are often regretful later on, when it's too late. I know of some men, however, who are NOT deadbeats, but don't get to be with their kids. My brother is stationed in California by the Air Force and tries to see his daughter (my niece) in Arizona as much as he can. He was a poor husband (and his ex was a poor wife), but a good father.

I don't have kids, but I content myself with being an uncle and a future stepfather (to my fiancee/slave's daughter). That is enough for me.
 
SEVERUSMAX said:
I personally think of it as more social convention. However, I respect your views. Again, supporting a child, staying with the mother, and being exclusive are different things. One MIGHT do all of that, if one wishes. However, only the first is really vital. I have no problem with the notion of birth control, in that, after a certain point, the number of children born becomes counter-productive. I would personally prefer to do the first 2, but not the 3rd. I just make a point of not lying about it AND of using a little device called a condom when with someone else. After all, invention is a part of human nature, too. :devil:

However, there have been men throughout history with harems. I'm not one to judge them, as long as they can provide for those harems.

Of course, there is always the other model: group marriage with both sexes well represented and shared responsibility for the children. A radical notion, but it does happen in rare cases.
Click to expand...
Aside from continuing to argue I, too, respect your views. But I find this conversation too interesting to stop it. And I like to find out about others' views. :)
What I do not really understand from your post is this: How can it be social conditioning/convention when safe protection was only invented pretty late in the human history?
 
alice_underneath said:
I had one of those. He walked out the door when I was five, and never looked back.

I read in the newspaper that he died last year.

I said, "Good fucking riddance, you bastard"... and cried for the next three days.
Click to expand...

Ohh Alice ~hugs for you ~ :heart: @]-}rebecca----
 
chris9 said:
Aside from continuing to argue I, too, respect your views. But I find this conversation too interesting to stop it. And I like to find out about others' views. :)
What I do not really understand from your post is this: How can it be social conditioning/convention when safe protection was only invented pretty late in the human history?
Click to expand...

Protection is not the social convention (although women were having abortions and using birth control in some form for millenia). The social convention is monogamy, which is relatively recent (I date it from the mid 19th Century and the Victorian Age). Before that, in France, for example, both sexes took lovers. In ancient Rome, men consorted with prostitutes. The same with ancient Greece. Prostitution and concubinage were often accepted as "outlets" for men's sexual energies (and women's, in some societies) that could be easier to handle than frequent divorce and serial marriage. I like Lord Byron's ideas. He advocated free love, but also used and preached the use of condoms, boasting that there were few, if any, bastards of his seed.
 
Marquis said:
You gotta be one of my favorite newbs, stick around.
Click to expand...

Yep, newb (scary stuff ,shudders...lol...nope.......still have my own money and sandwiches) here myself and I respectfully concur with whats his name above :D . Your insightful, couragous, generous and have a superb humor . Damn I would start an Alice Fan Club if I was inclined to such activities , then I don't agree with you always but hey I know you would respect that just the same.

PS This is my current favorite thread, its brain food , dead ass dry sarcasm and compliments my morning coffee . What more could I want huh.
 
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