Morality of Writing Fan Fiction Based on Literotica Stories

[Writer61]

Salieri is remembered for Mozart, but not for the absurd 1984 film. He's remembered because Mozart wove a tiny motif from one of Salieri's piano sonatas into the overture of The Magic Flute.

Well, I only know of him because of that play/film. Schaffer's play was inspired by an 1830 play by Pushkin which appears to be inspired in turn by Mozart's early death.

Had Mozart employed your "morals" instead of drawing from Salieri's work, no one would have remembered Salieri.

Would it matter if nobody did remember him? How does that justify somebody else plagiarising his work at a time when Salieri was very well known?

BTW in one post you refer to a "tiny motif" and in the next it's the "central theme".

 

[Writer61]

Art is the justification; it always comes first! People come and go, leaving mountains of crap behind, but art remains. If a sequel resurrects a lost story from oblivion, I couldn't care less about your law or "morals."

And copyright provides a framework for artists to benefit from their work, and thus encourage them to make more of it.

FWIW the motif in question was from a work first performed 5 years before the Magic Flute. It seems unlikely that Mozart was seeking to resurrect it from oblivion.

 

[StillStunned]

The one person who has no stories to steal is the one person arguing that stealing stories is a good thing.

 

[Writer61]

You're on a free adult scene platform; the only benefits here are recognition and validation. And for the dead, not even that.

Yet copyright, morals, and the site rules still apply.

Mozart and Salieri were acquainted and even took part in friendly improvisation competitions—that’s how Mozart came across that motif—but he couldn’t have cared less about him. He used whatever served his work, and thank God for that!

Thank whoever you like, but copyright, morals, and the site rules still apply.

 

[StillStunned]

Also, I love being reminded that my only concern is to make sure that I'll be remembered. I often lose sight of the real reason why I started writing sex stories: to be remembered by posterity.

 

[SimonDoom]

Also, I love being reminded that my only concern is to make sure that I'll be remembered. I often lose sight of the real reason why I started writing sex stories: to be remembered by posterity.

Perhaps someday the Site will feature a digital cemetery for authors that have passed. I'd like to be remembered something like this:

 

[StillStunned]

Perhaps someday the Site will feature a digital cemetery for authors that have passed. I'd like to be remembered something like this:

"StillStunned is stunned no more.
Wank to his stories, that's what they're for."

 

[Writer61]

Your morals don’t apply.

But yours do? You clearly disagree with the site rule on using other author's work. I suggest you find a site more aligned with your principles.

To me, anyone who claims otherwise is merely a narrow-minded, self-serving, pitiful narcissist.

There you go again with the unjustified snarkiness.

 

[SimonDoom]

Salieri's motif starts at 1:07 and remains the central theme in this uplifting, ingenious fugal structure. Had Mozart employed your "morals" instead of drawing from Salieri's work, no one would have remembered Salieri.

Poor Salieri. He gets a bad rap. He was no Mozart, but he was a good composer who enjoyed success and fame in his day. The theory that he poisoned and killed Mozart is very likely not true and unfairly stains his reputation.

I wasn't aware of the accusation that Mozart had lifted themes of Salieri for The Magic Flute, so I looked them up. According to the Wikipedia page for The Magic Flute, 2 musical passages in Mozart's opera echo portions of Salieri's work. The Papageno-Papagena duet echoes the Cucuzza cavatina in Salieri's Prima la musica e poi le parole, and Papageno's "whistle" theme echoes a theme in Salieri's concerto in B-flat major.

I listened to them, and I hear the similarity, but I don't think it rises to copyright infringement. There are similarities in structure and feel, but the melody isn't quite the same, and the works in which the themes are placed are completely different. In copyright parlance, it's borrowing an idea from another artist rather than taking the artist's proprietary expression of the idea. That's how I hear it, anyway. These things are subject to debate and dispute.

I'd compare it to the lawsuit brought by the Holst Foundation against Hans Zimmer for allegedly ripping off the "Mars" theme in his battle score for the movie Gladiator. I remember when I watched Gladiator thinking that that portion of the score sounded a lot like Mars from The Planets, but not quite enough to be copyright infringement.

We have to remember also that copyright protection and principles were in their infancy back in the late 1700s. The expectations would have been completely different from what they are now.

My takeaway is that Mozart did nothing wrong. He borrowed musical ideas of a contemporary, but the expression of those ideas was his own, and that's what counted. The musical works were completely different, in different keys, with different melodies. It's not close to the same thing as writing a sequel to somebody else's story.

 

[StillStunned]

I’ll stay long after you’re gone.

Nah, one day you'll vanish, or grow up, and another troll will take your place. Three days later no-one will even remember you.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Nah, one day you'll vanish, or grow up, and another troll will take your place. Three days later no-one will even remember you.

Ignore lists are pretty great too.

 

[Writer61]

Apparently, others share my morals, as no sequel has ever been rejected following my guidelines.

Wooly thinking. The latter does not prove the former. BTW how many sequels have you published here?

Keep your suggestions to yourself; I’ll stay long after you’re gone.

But will you ever contribute anything?

 

[AwkwardMD]

Wooly thinking. The latter does not prove the former. BTW how many sequels have you published here?


But will you ever contribute anything?

Tilan has made several contributions to my ignore list.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Wooly thinking. The latter does not prove the former. BTW how many sequels have you published here?


But will you ever contribute anything?

Yeah, I kind of find it odd that a new arrival(@Plathfan) with no stories, no followers, not following anyone, who's only presence seems to be less than 300 posts on this forum, is garnering so much attention.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

It's exactly the same thing as writing a sequel! I know, because I’ve tried (and given up). You know it too, only you didn’t call it a sequel or give credit.

It's not the same thing at all. I've been inspired by others works, taken ideas and concept and made them my own, but I've never once taken someone else's story, used their characters, their settings and pretended to be able to expand on their world.

I'm working on an epic fantasy novel with elves and dwarves and orcs and trolls. It's inspired by ton of other writers, but It's not in Middle Earth. It's not an extension of anything Tolkien did. It's my own story with my own characters.

Similarly, I have a vampire story on the back burner for next year's Halloween contest. It uses a well known genre, but I'm not using the characters or settings or even the story Bram Stoker wrote. I don't have the hubris to do fan fiction. I'm not bold enough to think I can pick up something someone else wrote and do their characters justice. I've been asked to write a transgender story in the Harry Potter world. Not going to do it. Those characters, that world belong to Rowling.

I'd suggest that you come across as an academic. You seem to know some theory and definitely have some opinions, but don't show any evidence of ever actually doing anything with that knowledge. You don't have any basis for your opinions other than your opinions. To me that's narcissistic. Maybe that's were your angst comes from. If you want to be more than a gnat on a summer afternoon, or an fly buzzing a slice of watermelon at a picnic, an annoyance, put something out there to support you opinions. Actually publish a story. Show us you're right.

 

[SimonDoom]

It's exactly the same thing as writing a sequel! I know, because I’ve tried (and given up). You know it too, only you didn’t call it a sequel or give credit.

No, it's not, because a sequel takes specific items of copyrightable expression from the source material -- character names, personalities, setting details, plot points, etc. These are things that are protected by copyright law.

Broad musical ideas, or musical motifs or themes to a certain level of abstraction, are considered mere unprotected "ideas" under copyright law. One is free to take them without credit or fear of copyright infringement. I think that's what Zimmer did with Holst's Mars, and what Mozart did with Salieri.

If you write a sequel to a Literotica author's story "Billy Bob's Adventures with Mom," and your sequel features the characters Billy Bob and Mom with the same names and personalities and backstories, and is set in the same mid-2oth century house in the San Fernando Valley with all the same rooms and decor, and your story refers specifically to events that happened in the previous stories, then you are not simply borrowing motifs or ideas; you are taking the unique original expression of the source author's ideas. That's copyright infringement.

I've never written a sequel to another Literotica author's story. I've never used names, personalities, settings, specific text, or plot points of another Literotica author's story for my own. I've borrowed broad ideas (e.g., the mailgirl concept and mom on son's lap on a seat) from preexisting Literotica stories, but all the specifics were my own. The only exception was my fanfiction story based in the LOTR universe, but that didn't involve a Lit author.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I think that giving credit to the original author is the key point in all of this. If you become inspired by someone's work and you credit the original author, then all those who read or listen to your work will be intrigued to look up the original author as well. Their original work will be found by more people. It will touch more souls and minds.

In that sense, I disagree with Tilan's view of the famous 1984 movie. Salieri is not an A-list composer of classical music, so to speak. Those who study music will know who he was, but a common person? I don't think so.
Beethoven, Mozart, Verdi, Brahms, yeah most people know these famous composers, but other composers might not fare so well. So that movie, if it did anything, it brought attention to Salieri. I would guess that many people would feel curious to learn more and to see if he was really jealous of Mozart and if he harbored ill thoughts towards him. Some will maybe try to listen to some of his work. Some will like it or feel inspired by it.
I believe I remember reading some criticism of the movie, and the outrage because Salieri was portrayed in such a way. It's quite possible that some people who saw the movie thought that that was a faithful portrayal of the man and that he was indeed a petty and malicious person. I don't think Salieri would be much bothered by what those fools who base their historical knowledge on movies think about him.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't think Salieri would be much bothered by what those fools who base their historical knowledge on movies think about him.

Speaking for myself, if I were Salieri's spirit sitting on a cloud and was aware of what the living on Earth were saying about me, I'd be pissed. I would regard myself as having been defamed. And, presumably, I'd have an eternity to stew about it, so that would piss me off more.

This is assuming, of course, that I was innocent; otherwise I'd be burning in hell and have other more pressing things to think about.

 

[Writer61]

I don't think Salieri would be much bothered by what those fools who base their historical knowledge on movies think about him.

You'd have to explain 'movies' to him first.

 

[alohadave]

Yeah, I kind of find it odd that a new arrival(@Plathfan) with no stories, no followers, not following anyone, who's only presence seems to be less than 300 posts on this forum, is garnering so much attention.

It's just Tilan's newest incarnation. The account will get banned eventually, they'll lay low for a while and pop up with a new account in a few months. This is like the 6th account of theirs that I've seen.

 

[alohadave]

You'd have to explain 'movies' to him first.

They had theater, it wouldn't take much explaining.

 

[SimonDoom]

It's just Tilan's newest incarnation. The account will get banned eventually, they'll lay low for a while and pop up with a new account in a few months. This is like the 6th account of theirs that I've seen.

It's kind of like Sauron. He can't assume his original visible form anymore, but the same malignant spirit remains, gnawing at old grievances and doing whatever mischief it can. Orcs suddenly reappear when he emerges from hiding.

 

[StillStunned]

It's kind of like Sauron. He can't assume his original visible form anymore, but the same malignant spirit remains, gnawing at old grievances and doing whatever mischief it can. Orcs suddenly reappear when he emerges from hiding.

He seems more like Gollum. Whinging, whining, lurking in the dark and hating everything.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

He seems more like Gollum. Whinging, whining, lurking in the dark and hating everything.

I just had a flash of Andy Serkis reading erotica in Gollum's voice. Oddly enticing.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

He seems more like Gollum. Whinging, whining, lurking in the dark and hating everything.

And he is loving every second of you talking about him.

Also, as much as I've been at odds with him on more than one occasion, he is who he is and he does his "performance art" openly, which is more that can be said about some other, "more respected" AH denizens. Not you, obviously, but there are some. Just sayin.