What I wish I knew starting out

[burgwad]

1. Literotica is just one free self-publishing erotica platform of - if not many - a solid few. Don’t mistake Lit’s readers’ norms and preferences for universal genre truths. Its readers skew porny. Anon presence is strikingly robust, and regrettably unmitigated. But dialog among fellow writers is, for better and worse, unmatched here. So it’s got that (i.e., this) going for it.
2. Longer works generally fair better in separately uploaded chapters than as hulking single-post time-gobblers. Do good by your big babies, and ease them into the world.
3. By and large, people who admire your work will give you the most useful feedback (1) because they believe in you and (2) because they want you to keep creating.
4. Come to these forums. Participate a little. Find your kindred spirits. Attempt friendly one-on-one correspondence with a few. Learn their processes, heed their advice, and please never ask the female ones for nudes.
5. Write with love and confidence. It will come back to you in time. Don’t pander to the masses - and Literotica has some of the massiest - or you will burn yourself out on second guesses and self-doubts.
6. Delete shitty comments. There is no shame in maintaining a civil comment thread. And it’s fun to do! You can select which putrid invectives to delete from the “My Works” page, if you click the little speech bubble button beside your published story.

You lot have anything you wish you could tell yourself back when you were just starting out?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Nope. I wouldn't have learned if I hadn't made those mistakes when I first started writing. Nothing makes you learn better than your own failures, as costly as they can be sometimes.
Also, had I really understood Literotica at the time, I am not sure I would have ventured into writing at all. So, weird as that might sound, I don't regret anything from this perspective. I do wish some things were different but I am also past hoping they would ever change.

 

[Erozetta]

Have fun.

 

[THBGato]

You lot have anything you wish you could tell yourself back when you were just starting out?

Don't be afraid to leave sex out entirely. In Lesbian Sex, at least, there's a readership for romances.

 

[8letters]

Longer works generally fair better in separately uploaded chapters than as hulking single-post time-gobblers. Do good by your big babies, and ease them into the world.

I'm going to disagree here.

When I looked at stories statistics a few years ago, you lost a third of your audience by publishing your story as a set of chapters vs one big stand-alone story. A lot of readers apparently aren't willing to read a Chapter 1 when they don't know if they'll ever see the end of the story.

Secondly, I write slow-burn stories. Chapter one in a series isn't going to have much in the way of hot action. It's going to be the last chapter where the hot action is. However, the readership decreases with every chapter. I'm going to have a lot fewer readers of my chapter with the hot action than I would if I published the story as one big stand-alone.

I did publish one of my stories as a five-chapter series. I found the comments on the first three chapters to be boring to read. They were always something short like "Nice!" Chapter four got lots of negative comments as the readers didn't like the plot twist in that chapter. Chapter five was the only chapter that got positive comments that actually discussed the story. So, breaking the story up into five chapters didn't get my more of the type of comments I enjoy the most. Probably got me less.

By and large, people who admire your work will give you the most useful feedback (1) because they believe in you and (2) because they want you to keep creating.

Individual comments are not a useful source of feedback. The zeitgeist of the comments are. The rating is. Beta-readers and editors are.

Write with love and confidence. It will come back to you in time. Don’t pander to the masses - and Literotica has some of the massiest - or you will burn yourself out on second guesses and self-doubts.

I beg to differ on the pandering to the masses. It's a lot of fun getting positive responses from my readers. Know your audience and deliver to them what they like. To me, that's the goal.

On the other hand, don't be afraid to experiment and accept that some experiments will be home runs and some will be strike outs. That's how you learn your audience better!

Delete shitty comments. There is no shame in maintaining a civil comment thread. And it’s fun to do! You can select which putrid invectives to delete from the “My Works” page, if you click the little speech bubble button beside your published story.

I've gotten one comment where a commenter attacked other commenters. I deleted that. Otherwise, I almost never delete comments. What I find is that a negative comment will frequently draw positive comments which say the negative commenter is all wrong.

You lot have anything you wish you could tell yourself back when you were just starting out?

Keep writing. Don't let negative comments or a low rating get you down.

Read a lot of porn. Think about what worked for you in each story and what you didn't like. Learn from other's bad writing.

Think a lot about writing. Write lists of tips and tricks. Almost all writing advice sucks, and I found I came up with much better writing advice FOR ME on my own.

Find a style/type of story that you give you results that you are happy with.

 

[lovecraft68]

Oh, no. People who admire your work will give you the flattery you most desire, as long as you keep delivering the content they expect. But the moment your content strays from those expectations, you'll encounter an epic tantrum that could rival a comic book store owner tearing up fresh issues over an unsatisfying ending.

Once you realize that, by and large, sex-obsessed people don’t rank in the top decile for intelligence or mental stability, your expectations adjust, and everything falls into proportion.

I love that I take up so much room in your head.

Sorry, sweetie, but I'm married.

 

[burgwad]

Oh, no. People who admire your work will give you the flattery you most desire, as long as you keep delivering the content they expect. But the moment your content strays from those expectations, you'll encounter an epic tantrum that could rival a comic book store owner tearing up fresh issues over an unsatisfying ending.

Once you realize that, by and large, sex-obsessed people don’t rank in the top decile for intelligence or mental stability, your expectations adjust, and everything falls into proportion.

I like this rebuttal.

But if I had to describe the one thing that unites all of the feedback I’ve ever found useful? I’d say it was admiration.

Not adoration. Not masturbatory love. Just a healthy, craft-oriented optimism about my writing.

Also, I should maybe specify that this rule for me stacks with the one about finding trustworthy kindred. Fellow writers I myself “admire” for one reason or another have been hands down both the most supportive and the most challenging. When someone admires you, they can give you the hard feedback without it hurting your feelings.

 

[lovecraft68]

Other than if you need an answer to a specific question, take anything here with a grain of salt.

Not saying no one here tries to be helpful, but the number one mantra of this forum is "look at me, look what I wrote" followed by "You should write like me/this"

I came here after a year and a half and 40+ stories published. During that time, I learned a lot on my own, and many times have looked back and said I was glad I didn't come here on day one because I think people would have talked me out of what I was doing, especially the long taboo series I wrote which pretty much checked zero boxes in the genre.

This is a fun place to bullshit and procrastinate. Pay attention and you'll find some good tips among the stat touting, stat lamenting, and occasional flat out banality. But when it comes to writing?

It's a private and intimate thing, the game of introverts and a haven for ISTP personalities.

Live by the words Just do it, add do it your way, and there's nothing left to know.

 

[burgwad]

I'm going to disagree here.

When I looked at stories statistics a few years ago, you lost a third of your audience by publishing your story as a set of chapters vs one big stand-alone story. A lot of readers apparently aren't willing to read a Chapter 1 when they don't know if they'll ever see the end of the story.

Secondly, I write slow-burn stories. Chapter one in a series isn't going to have much in the way of hot action. It's going to be the last chapter where the hot action is. However, the readership decreases with every chapter. I'm going to have a lot fewer readers of my chapter with the hot action than I would if I published the story as one big stand-alone.

I did publish one of my stories as a five-chapter series. I found the comments on the first three chapters to be boring to read. They were always something short like "Nice!" Chapter four got lots of negative comments as the readers didn't like the plot twist in that chapter. Chapter five was the only chapter that got positive comments that actually discussed the story. So, breaking the story up into five chapters didn't get my more of the type of comments I enjoy the most. Probably got me less.


Individual comments are not a useful source of feedback. The zeitgeist of the comments are. The rating is. Beta-readers and editors are.


I beg to differ on the pandering to the masses. It's a lot of fun getting positive responses from my readers. Know your audience and deliver to them what they like. To me, that's the goal.

On the other hand, don't be afraid to experiment and accept that some experiments will be home runs and some will be strike outs. That's how you learn your audience better!


I've gotten one comment where a commenter attacked other commenters. I deleted that. Otherwise, I almost never delete comments. What I find is that a negative comment will frequently draw positive comments which say the negative commenter is all wrong.


Keep writing. Don't let negative comments or a low rating get you down.

Read a lot of porn. Think about what worked for you in each story and what you didn't like. Learn from other's bad writing.

Think a lot about writing. Write lists of tips and tricks. Almost all writing advice sucks, and I found I came up with much better writing advice FOR ME on my own.

Find a style/type of story that you give you results that you are happy with.

You are someone whose correspondence I have cherished. You are so fricking passionate, and yet come at this from such a different angle than I (and most here) do. It’s admirable. You have frequently challenged me to think differently about what I want to achieve versus what I should know better “works.”

Rule one, the one about remembering Lit is just one of a slew of different self-publication sites, is my only meaningful rejoinder to the intensive research you’ve done. I spent the last year or two elsewhere, publishing prolifically, amassing readers and pen pals and self-confidence by doing things that never would have landed here on Lit. Ironically, that’s what readied me to come back this year and try again at appeasing Lit’s more populist appetites.

 

[SimonDoom]

Nothing. I'm perfectly content with what I didn't know then and what I've learned since. It's worked out OK.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

you'll encounter an epic tantrum that could rival a comic book store owner tearing up fresh issues over an unsatisfying ending.

That was truly hilarious.

 

[burgwad]

If you truly want to improve something, you'd better remove the word admiration from your vocabulary. For objective feedback or insight, approach only those who are agnostic toward your work.

Fans will lead you in only one direction—their own.

If I read something I can’t even so much as admire, then it means the writer has failed me on a very simple check unrelated to style or aptitude. It means their work is somehow foul to me, and triggers an allergic response in my brain. The only considerate feedback I can think to give such work is none. I politely but firmly desist. Not because I’m a yellowbelly, but because I don’t presume to tell people whom I knowingly detest, whose writing elicits a gag reflex in my very soul, what I think of their hope-crushing otherness to me. No need to ruin both our days, you know?

EDIT FOR CLARITY: You seem to view admiration as a perilous indulgence, while I view it as the very lowest bar a writer must clear to merit sincere feedback.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Fans will lead you in only one direction—their own.

 

[burgwad]

Nothing. I'm perfectly content with what I didn't know then and what I've learned since. It's worked out OK.

If I met my future self and asked him for advice and he gave me nothing? I’d call him a coward to his face and slap him.

Also, on a tangent: If you had to fuck either your past self or your future self, which would you choose? Would they enjoy it?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

On a more serious note, I think that both compliments and criticism have their merit in helping an author improve as long as they come with an explanation. The "Great! I want more!" and "What a piece of crap!" type of comments are the ones that serve no purpose and shouldn't be regarded as a measure of the story being good or bad. More often than not, those are fueled by the author fulfilling, or going against the reader's kink. And yeah, as some here said, readers will always try to steer your story towards their kinks and desires. This is especially true for chaptered stories.
The only good feedback is the one that points out the specifics of why something was done good or bad in their opinion, the more detailed and detached the better.

 

[SimonDoom]

If I met my future self and asked him for advice and he gave me nothing? I’d call him a coward to his face and slap him.

Also, on a tangent: If you had to fuck either your past self or your future self, which would you choose? Would they enjoy it?

I have a different attitude about other aspects of my life, but I don't regard this place as consequential enough to think, "Gosh, I wish I'd done things differently." I can't honestly say that. To be honest, I feel like I did my homework and figured this place out pretty well by the time I started posting stories. I'd been reading stories here for about 15 years by the time I wrote one. I had a pretty clear idea of what I wanted to do, and I've done it, and it's been rewarding.

 

[burgwad]

Did you know that the King of Spain has a mole on the right side of his nose?

I’m enjoying our back and forth! But I admit I don’t know what your comment means. Is it a reference? Or an idiom, maybe? Sorry. If this were a quiz, I’d have to cross my fingers and guess.

 

[MyBareTorso]

I wish I'd known how addictive Literotica can be, and how much of my leisure time it would eat into. It's certainly not an addiction that is ruining my life at large, but it has definitely been chomping away at some of the more nourishing, beneficial activities I've enjoyed over the years. That said, it is certainly a lot of fun... it's just time suckage personified.

 

[alohadave]

Also, on a tangent: If you had to fuck either your past self or your future self, which would you choose? Would they enjoy it?

You should read "The Psychology of Time Travel".

 

[pink_silk_glove]

But if I had to describe the one thing that unites all of the feedback I’ve ever found useful? I’d say it was admiration.

Not adoration. Not masturbatory love. Just a healthy, craft-oriented optimism about my writing.

Totally disagree. Telling me what I did right isn't going to help me fix what I got wrong one bit. Furthermore, if you really love to write, you shouldn't need 'encouragement'.

You may have heard the story of the fleet of bomber planes that came back from a mission. Half of the planes were lost. It was decided to put extra armor plate on the planes that had survived. Of course armoring the entire plane would make it too heavy to fly, so they could only cover parts of the planes. The repair crew offered to put the armor over the bullet holes. The squadron leader said, "No, put the armor where the bullet holes aren't."

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Also, on a tangent: If you had to fuck either your past self or your future self, which would you choose? Would they enjoy it?

By definition, you'd always be doing both. Both of the people involved are "you".

-Billie

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If I met my future self and asked him for advice and he gave me nothing? I’d call him a coward to his face and slap him.

A year from now you'll be going to the cinema and you will have to choose a movie. Whatever you do, don't go see Battlefield Earth.

 

[burgwad]

Totally disagree. Telling me what I did right isn't going to help me fix what I got wrong one bit. Furthermore, if you really love to write, you shouldn't need 'encouragement'.

Telling a writer what they did right gives me a chance to prove I can say true-feeling things about their work before they decide whether they want to hear my complaints.

That's not to say I don't appreciate your jet-armor metaphor. In addition to being a compelling (if, uh, grim) analogy about feedback, it's a testament to collaborative, interdisciplinary problem-solving. I think your point is that the pilot only proffers his insight (i.e., useful feedback) by virtue of his having survived a massacre (i.e., a brutal education on the weak points of his [air-] craft). Right? All those bullet holes elsewhere, useless information?

Okay. Fair enough. Yet I can't help noticing that the only pilots who live to fly another day in this metaphor are those whose jets have but for the grace of God avoided direct fire on their weak points.

 

[burgwad]

By definition, you'd always be doing both. Both of the people involved are "you".

-Billie

Okay, sure. For the sake of parsimony, let's say we're starting from an original, unaltered timeline. You have a time machine. You have to choose one, for some reason. Which is it? Older, wiser self or younger, spryer self? Who does it better for you?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Telling a writer what they did right gives me a chance to prove I can say true-feeling things about their work before they decide whether they want to hear my complaints.

That's how you (personally) give criticism but what does that have to do with you receiving criticism?

That's not to say I don't appreciate your jet-armor metaphor. In addition to being a compelling (if, uh, grim) analogy about feedback, it's a testament to collaborative, interdisciplinary problem-solving. I think your point is that the pilot only proffers his insight (i.e., useful feedback) by virtue of his having survived a massacre (i.e., a brutal education on the weak points of his [air-] craft). Right? All those bullet holes elsewhere, useless information?

Okay. Fair enough. Yet I can't help noticing that the only pilots who live to fly another day in this metaphor are those whose jets have but for the grace of God avoided direct fire on their weak points.

It's a lesson about the obvious not always being the right choice. Positive is good and negative is bad sounds obvious but when you think deeper it's actually the negative feedback that helps one far more. With the planes, the obvious thing is to patch the armour over the damage, but thinking deeper, these planes survived hits to those spots, and so would likely survive hits to those spots again, whereas the planes that did not survive were almost certainly hit where the surviving planes were not, and therefore the untouched spots on the surviving planes are actually the vulnerable spots.

Yes those planes survived by the grace of God, but next time they will survive because their armor will be improved, not luck at all. Why? Because they took a deeper look at the feedback rather than going with the obvious instinct.

Listen to your negative feedback. That is where you will improve your armor (skills).