Time Magazine cover story: If He Wins

[icanhelp1]

Well, Biden was playing a balancing game. Direct military intervention in Ukraine- American troops on the ground, American planes in the air, would likely have ignited WW3. Russia would have been forced to respond directly to the U.S. with military force. We would be dealing with Russian troops in Alaska, Russian missiles landing in California, and so on. Ukraine might have survived, but the collateral damage, to the U.S, Russia and possibly the rest of the world, would have been far greater. So, propping up Ukraine, keeping Russia occupied and tied down, in the hopes of not only curbing Putin's expansionist aims in Ukraine but keeping him from being tempted to spread to other Eastern European countries, was the conservative strategy but probably the safest one.


And again, in Israel, Biden wants to avoid America being drawn into another wider Middle Eastern War. You might recall the last one lasted nearly 20 years- and I'm guessing you are still pissed at Biden for the way it ended.

I never suggested direct intervention, you’re making shit up.

 

[icanhelp1]

I would only add:

1) Ukraine was an UNKNOWN quantity at the start of the Russian invasion.

2) Afghanistan was a KNOWN quantity at the end of the western mission.

President Biden was clear eyed and pragmatic about both situations, and his administration’s policies and actions were a reflection of that.

That ^ also applies to President Biden’s policies and actions on Covid, climate, and the economy.

This administration has been rock steady in its thoughtful, measured responses to a whole host of issues.

Biden is an incompetent fool. We should have never left Afghanistan period. Biden has never been cleared eyed about anything especially on foreign policy matters. You believing that nonsense says a lot about you! If Biden would have acted decisively at the beginning of the Ukraine conflict it could have ended up with peace talks and a path to peace negotiations. Putin realizes he can’t beat NATO. Had Biden listened to his generals concerning Afghanistan the outcome would have also been different, we’d still have a modern Air Force base in that theater of operations. The whole planet is about to blow up because of Biden policies. When we should have pushed for energy independence he cuts at the worst possible time. Starving Russia of cash by flooding the markets with oil would possibly have caused a financial collapse of the Russian economy.

 

[PaxNurgle]

By acting decisively at the beginning of the Ukraine conflict, you are suggesting direct action, are you not?

If not, then I'll ask in good faith, what do you think Biden SHOULD have done? What should the American response have been?

 

[Lazaran]

<snip>

Side note:

I’m voting for President Biden - again.

 

[YDB95]

If Biden would have acted decisively at the beginning of the Ukraine conflict it could have ended up with peace talks and a path to peace negotiations.

Even if that had somehow happened, you would find some excuse to bash him. Everyone here knows that. Besides, I don't see how anyone is supposed to negotiate anything with Putin. He's not interested in compromise, nor should the Ukranians have to meet him halfway. And that's not even taking into account that Biden has had one hand tied behind his back throughout the war thanks to the Republicans in Congress.

Putin realizes he can’t beat NATO.

Right, which is why he didn't attack Ukraine until Biden was president and he could no longer hope for Trump to pull the US out of NATO.

Had Biden listened to his generals concerning Afghanistan the outcome would have also been different, we’d still have a modern Air Force base in that theater of operations.

After twenty years and no progress to speak of, why exactly should we still have that? We were spending billions of dollars a year on essentially nothing.

The whole planet is about to blow up because of Biden policies. When we should have pushed for energy independence he cuts at the worst possible time. Starving Russia of cash by flooding the markets with oil would possibly have caused a financial collapse of the Russian economy.

Okay, points for creativity on that one, given what you think of environmental policies in general.

 

[Lazaran]

Even if that had somehow happened, you would find some excuse to bash him. Everyone here knows that. Besides, I don't see how anyone is supposed to negotiate anything with Putin. He's not interested in compromise, nor should the Ukranians have to meet him halfway. And that's not even taking into account that Biden has had one hand tied behind his back throughout the war thanks to the Republicans in Congress.

Right, which is why he didn't attack Ukraine until Biden was president and he could no longer hope for Trump to pull the US out of NATO.

After twenty years and no progress to speak of, why exactly should we still have that? We were spending billions of dollars a year on essentially nothing.

Okay, points for creativity on that one, given what you think of environmental policies in general.

ineedhelp1 says a lot, but nothing new…or intelligent…or accurate.

 

[AlexBailey]

When you continually deny the hatred, racism, and sexism of your party, the fascism, the horrific economy and supporting sick fucks with dicks between their legs ruining women's sports and walking into girls locker rooms, and teachers telling 5th graders about their genitals....you're infinitely worse.

Keep goosestepping into the fourth Reich you anti-semitic pro pedo, hatemonger.

Is that your official Canadian MAGA position?

 

[icanhelp1]

Even if that had somehow happened, you would find some excuse to bash him. Everyone here knows that. Besides, I don't see how anyone is supposed to negotiate anything with Putin. He's not interested in compromise, nor should the Ukranians have to meet him halfway. And that's not even taking into account that Biden has had one hand tied behind his back throughout the war thanks to the Republicans in Congress.

The way Biden mishandled the Afghanistan withdrawal and his gaslighting the American people that the withdrawal was a success even after losing 13 servicemen, which by the way, could have been avoided was all I needed to see. Biden had full republican support at the beginning. It turned sour because of the way Biden incrementally increased weapons selection when he should have provided a lethal assortment to include F-16s for air superiority and heavy armor to take out those Russian supply columns. Biden’s indecisive handling of weapons procurement, training and deployment has now given the Russian military time to rebuild and win. Republicans turned sour because of Biden’s decision not to close our border first or at least attempt to stop the flow of illegal migrants.

Right, which is why he didn't attack Ukraine until Biden was president and he could no longer hope for Trump to pull the US out of NATO.

Trump couldn’t pull us out of NATO, more gaslighting. NATO is an official treaty that can only be disbanded by congress.

After twenty years and no progress to speak of, why exactly should we still have that? We were spending billions of dollars a year on essentially nothing.

The strategy importance of Bagram air base, our moral commitment to girls and young women being allowed the freedom of education. We were entering the second generation of young afghans, a critical phase in afghan relations. We could have furthered the possibility of a co-op government while afghan special forces could have dealt a crippling blow to the Taliban with modern tactical air support. The way Biden left was a total embarrassment for us and displayed weakness in the eyes of the Russians.
,

Okay, points for creativity on that one, given what you think of environmental policies in general.

Bullshit. Biden energy policies made Iran and Russia rich, padding their coffers with cash to continue the Ukrainian offensive and allowing Iran to fund their proxies.

 

[YDB95]

The way Biden mishandled the Afghanistan withdrawal and his gaslighting the American people that the withdrawal was a success even after losing 13 servicemen, which by the way, could have been avoided was all I needed to see. Biden had full republican support at the beginning. It turned sour because of the way Biden incrementally increased weapons selection when he should have provided a lethal assortment to include F-16s for air superiority and heavy armor to take out those Russian supply columns. Biden’s indecisive handling of weapons procurement, training and deployment has now given the Russian military time to rebuild and win.

Armchair warriors always have all the answers, don't they?

Republicans turned sour because of Biden’s decision not to close our border first or at least attempt to stop the flow of illegal migrants.

For you, everything comes back to illegal immigration sooner or later. That's all that's happening here.

Trump couldn’t pull us out of NATO, more gaslighting. NATO is an official treaty that can only be disbanded by congress.

Trump more than likely doesn't know that. He did indeed express interest in pulling us out of NATO.

The strategy importance of Bagram air base, our moral commitment to girls and young women being allowed the freedom of education.

You don't give a shit about women's rights at home, don't expect me to believe you care about them anywhere else.

We were entering the second generation of young afghans, a critical phase in afghan relations. We could have furthered the possibility of a co-op government while afghan special forces could have dealt a crippling blow to the Taliban with modern tactical air support. The way Biden left was a total embarrassment for us and displayed weakness in the eyes of the Russians.

If that were even remotely true, the Taliban would not have taken over immediately when we left.

 

[icanhelp1]

Armchair warriors always have all the answers, don't they?

Although I was never stationed there I had close friends who were. I did have an inside perspective on things. Our ground forces were mostly involved with protecting forward operating bases and Bagram air base while air assets provided air support for afghan ground forces.

For you, everything comes back to illegal immigration sooner or later. That's all that's happening here.

I don’t believe we should hand over our country to illegals. 420 billion dollars spent on illegals, money taken out of needy taxpayers pockets. Denver medical facilities are going bankrupt because of asinine immigration policies.

Trump more than likely doesn't know that. He did indeed express interest in pulling us out of NATO.

It doesn’t matter whether he knew or not. Trump was spot on with countries paying their fair share. Trump cared about the American citizens, can’t say that about Biden. Biden is a narcissist, cares about his own political wellbeing.

You don't give a shit about women's rights at home, don't expect me to believe you care about them anywhere else.

I have 2 daughters you ignorant fuck.

If that were even remotely true, the Taliban would not have taken over immediately when we left.

Trump was wrong and Biden was wrong IMHO

 

[JoePepsiCo]

If you bring your daughters in, then they will next bring in incest charges.

Trust me on this one. It's why none of them divulge anything personal...

 

[icanhelp1]

If you bring your daughters in, then they will next bring in incest charges.

Trust me on this one. It's why none of them divulge anything personal...

There are some degenerate posters on lit. I’ve mentioned I had daughters back a year or two ago in a discussion on education.

I agree with your premise though there are some vile people on lit but as much as I disagree with YB he doesn’t stoop to vile rhetoric. I agree with you that a poster should be very measured when it comes to personal information. Thanks.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Oh, I wasn't limiting to just one idiot. The ThrobDownSouths are all out there and waiting to pounce with the implied blessing of management.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Most of us Americans are really happy with the extra money we get to keep under the TCJA and we’re pleased that the most of those tax cuts will be extended after 2025 regardless of who wins the White House.

So to paraphrase, you don't give a shit about the national debt level because your grandchildren will be saddle with it. Pretty typical of the Baby Boomer generation....take a bow!

PS....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greats...s-act-mainly-expires-in-2025/?sh=23f4e4b67224

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Most of us Americans are really happy with the extra money we get to keep under the TCJA and we’re pleased that the most of those tax cuts will be extended after 2025 regardless of who wins the White House.

Unfortunately, fiscal responsibility leads to political suicide. President Bush’s modest attempt to reform social security was met with scorn from all quarters. Paul Ryan’s effort to but entitlement spending on a sustainable path was hammered as well. Trumps tax reform has helped on the revenue side. Receipts to the treasury are up 3.8% so far this fiscal year. Even corporate receipts are up. Yay for that! But no one wants to touch the spending side of the equation.

So to paraphrase, you don't give a shit about the national debt level because your grandchildren will be saddle with it. Pretty typical of the Baby Boomer generation....take a bow!

PS....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greats...s-act-mainly-expires-in-2025/?sh=23f4e4b67224

and as proof, you actually admitted you knew the tax cuts were a fiscal problem....

 

[icanhelp1]

Oh, I wasn't limiting to just one idiot. The ThrobDownSouths are all out there and waiting to pounce with the implied blessing of management.

I vividly remember how cruel nobbydownsouth was towards Bot Boy. Classless FUZZYNUTS insulting people’s wives. No doubt this is a swamp.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Classless FUZZYNUTS insulting people’s wives.

Exactly where did I insult anyone's wives? Show em. I'll leave if you can find one.

 

[icanhelp1]

and as proof, you actually admitted you knew the tax cuts were a fiscal problem....

Spending is a fiscal problem

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Funny word swamp.

The ultra-liberal M*A*S*H television show referred to their lodgings as, "The Swamp."

 

[icanhelp1]

Funny word swamp.

The ultra-liberal M*A*S*H television show referred to their lodgings as, "The Swamp."

I remember it well.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Spending is a fiscal problem

True it is, and Boomer stated that the tax cuts without reigning in fiscal spending was a problem. Thanks for confirming you also knew this problem with Trump's tax cut.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Putting, or implying, Trump in any thread title is akin to chumming the water for crazy...


You post it and they will come.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Putting, or implying, Trump in any thread title is akin to chumming the water for crazy...


You post it and they will come.

Are you denying either fact. A: tax cuts, without reworking fiscal spending is a problem. Or B: that the TCJA had no offset spending cuts to balance the books?

Come on AJ, be a man and defend the indefensible. It's entertaining as hell!!

 

[JoePepsiCo]

I'm only pointing out that Trump makes people crazy, so please don't go crazy on me.


I didn't vote for the guy, but you can convince me to just to watch you

 

[jomar]

I disagree. It could have put Russia between a rock and a hard place. Peace talks.

We can certainly agree to disagree. I think putins rock and hard place would be which nuke to send where

IMHO Trump was wrong and so was Biden. We should have never left, Afghanistan was a strategic asset in so many ways, politically, militarily and economically . We had Iran surrounded along with over the horizon intelligence capabilities.

Again, fair enough for your opinion. But don’t forget we wanted out of Afghanistan. And don’t pretend leaving Afghanistan was all on Biden, who did warn people to get out well in advance of the withdrawal. Your boy trump set it all in motion with a deadline or war would resume. That’s squarely on trump. And don’t forget he negotiated behind the back of the Afghan government.

I believe we had advisors in Ukraine right from the beginning. Before equipment is issued training takes place out of country on complex equipment then after the initial training is completed it becomes train the trainer. The strength of our military is the emphasis we put on maintenance, fix forward concept, We learned that from the Israelis. Effective maintenance is a combat multiplier.

You’re confusing yourself. We may have had some advisors slipping in and out. But let’s put the goalposts back where you started. If the US put in battalions of tanks and squadrons of aircraft at the start of putin’s invasion it would have required a massive amount of US boots on the ground for training/maintenance/resupply logistics. There’s no way around that in your give them the goods scenario.

Putin would never want a war with the U.S., especially a conventional war with NATO. The Russian military would be left a complete pile of rubble. The Russians are still fighting WWII. Russia never learned anything from the first Iraq war.

So you’re sure he’d back down without tossing a few nukes if the US said “hold up” with military force in Ukraine? Not to mention China might have chosen the moment to invade Taiwan

Having served in the military what Vindman did was a breach of loyalty and trust to his boss.

Your words here place you squarely in MAGAland. Loyalty to trump over the law and the constitution is the key to being in his circle.

He failed to follow the chain of command. Adam Schiff’s did some pretty underhanded things. I would have felt the same way towards Vindman had he did that to Biden.

I don’t recall the specifics offhand, but I doubt Vindman would leapfrog chain of command as a first step

Just as the IRS whistleblowers knew something was amiss with the Biden/Ukraine extracurricular activities I’m pretty certain Trump was also aware. IMHO. I’m not going to re-argue the point.

Good, because you are willfully not understanding historical truth and reality at this point.

You said this in your post #60: “It doesn’t matter whether he knew or not. Trump was spot on with countries paying their fair share. Trump cared about the American citizens, can’t say that about Biden. Biden is a narcissist, cares about his own political wellbeing.”

First of all, Obama also pressured NATO and got countries to pay more. Secondly, trump doesn’t give a shit about American citizens beyond what they can do for him. Have you not noticed the lengths he goes to to get your last nickel? And thirdly, how out of touch are you to say Biden is a narcissist who cares only about his political wellbeing? That’s trumpian projection 101!