Monday, April 15th: First Ever Criminal Trial for a Former US President

[icanhelp1]

I wonder if there’s some legal leeway. Seems like I read Biden had daily schedules, old travel itineraries, and menus in the garage while trump had current military strategic plans that were shuffled around at mar.


That seems to cover trump revealing secret nuclear submarine stuff to an Australian businessman, unless of course you believe he declassified the material on the spot with his mind.

Common knowledge;

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...would-be-stupid-but-do-not-appear-classified/

That in mind, here are some things that the Russian navy and the People’s Liberation Army Navy (thanks largely to the Russian navy) already know.

• They know that U.S. nuclear attack submarines can get within a few feet of their own submarines without being detected. Indeed, they know that their first counter-detection can come with collision.
• They know that the U.S. has 14 nuclear ballistic missile submarines. They know that each of these submarines carries 20 Trident missiles and that those missiles are each loaded with between five to eight warheads (with a capacity for 12 warheads per missile). That’s 100-160 warheads per submarine. They know that were U.S. Strategic Command to fear war, it would surge its ballistic missile fleet out to sea and load each submarine’s missile to its max 12-warhead capacity.
• They know that nearly every time one of their own nuclear ballistic missile submarines departs Hainan Island, Qingdao, Vladivostok, or Murmansk, a U.S. nuclear attack submarine will attempt to shadow that submarine for the duration of its patrol. They know the U.S. will hold their missile submarines at risk of immediate destruction in the event of war.
• They know that U.S. nuclear attack submarines can operate undetected in their territorial waters. They know that these submarines can secretly deploy and extract special operations or intelligence personnel onto or from their soil.
• They know that U.S. nuclear submarines can access, lay, and retrieve highly sensitive intelligence, communications, and surveillance devices on the seafloor deep inside their territory.
• They know that U.S. submarine forces are unparalleled in skill and capability but increasingly weakened by a mismanaged industrial base. Both China and Russia are advancing their own submarine forces so as to take advantage of this vulnerability.

This is the real classified material, operational tempo. vvvvvv If it’s already public knowledge then how is that a breach of national security. Have fun in court.
Do not misunderstand me. Had Trump told Pratt about U.S. submarine patrol sectors, tactics, strike packages, and specific missions, he would deserve to have the book thrown at him. And if the Justice Department can prove the assertions listed in its indictment of Trump over his handling of dozens of classified documents, Trump will be convicted and should receive a custodial sentence. After all, these documents are said to include the holy grail of classified intelligence reporting: that related to nuclear weapons intelligence and CIA human agent reporting. The point here is that not all secret-sounding information is classified.

I don’t believe Smith is charging Trump for this allegation.

 

[jomar]

Common knowledge;

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...would-be-stupid-but-do-not-appear-classified/

That in mind, here are some things that the Russian navy and the People’s Liberation Army Navy (thanks largely to the Russian navy) already know.

• They know that U.S. nuclear attack submarines can get within a few feet of their own submarines without being detected. Indeed, they know that their first counter-detection can come with collision.
• They know that the U.S. has 14 nuclear ballistic missile submarines. They know that each of these submarines carries 20 Trident missiles and that those missiles are each loaded with between five to eight warheads (with a capacity for 12 warheads per missile). That’s 100-160 warheads per submarine. They know that were U.S. Strategic Command to fear war, it would surge its ballistic missile fleet out to sea and load each submarine’s missile to its max 12-warhead capacity.
• They know that nearly every time one of their own nuclear ballistic missile submarines departs Hainan Island, Qingdao, Vladivostok, or Murmansk, a U.S. nuclear attack submarine will attempt to shadow that submarine for the duration of its patrol. They know the U.S. will hold their missile submarines at risk of immediate destruction in the event of war.
• They know that U.S. nuclear attack submarines can operate undetected in their territorial waters. They know that these submarines can secretly deploy and extract special operations or intelligence personnel onto or from their soil.
• They know that U.S. nuclear submarines can access, lay, and retrieve highly sensitive intelligence, communications, and surveillance devices on the seafloor deep inside their territory.
• They know that U.S. submarine forces are unparalleled in skill and capability but increasingly weakened by a mismanaged industrial base. Both China and Russia are advancing their own submarine forces so as to take advantage of this vulnerability.

This is the real classified material, operational tempo. vvvvvv If it’s already public knowledge then how is that a breach of national security. Have fun in court.
Do not misunderstand me. Had Trump told Pratt about U.S. submarine patrol sectors, tactics, strike packages, and specific missions, he would deserve to have the book thrown at him. And if the Justice Department can prove the assertions listed in its indictment of Trump over his handling of dozens of classified documents, Trump will be convicted and should receive a custodial sentence. After all, these documents are said to include the holy grail of classified intelligence reporting: that related to nuclear weapons intelligence and CIA human agent reporting. The point here is that not all secret-sounding information is classified.

I don’t believe Smith is charging Trump for this allegation.

So, if trump were to be charged on this allegation and I don’t think he is either, your defense of trump revealing classified nuclear submarine information to an Australian businessman boils down to people probably knew about it anyway. Have fun in court indeed.

 

[KeithD]

Lock him up!!

Alvin Bragg Wants 'Maximum Fine' For Donald Trump​

Prosecutors also suggested in Tuesday's brief that former President Donald Trump face 30 days in jail for subsequent violations.

I think that the judge designating a Wednesday for addressing the contempt issues, a day Trump thought he'd have off to campaign or "whatever," was something that would get Trump's attention. Better than $1,000 fines for each breach (which, I understand, is the maximum allowed). Make his breaches tie up his time outside of court.

 

[dmallord]

Trump was president, authorized to handle any classified material outside a SCIF, also the only government employee who is authorized to classify and declassify. But you keep believing they’re one in the same.

@icanhelp1 you are not helping this situation by carrying water for this man.

Trump failed to follow protocols for declassification or to handle those documents in a proscribed manner. These are some points you mistakenly make:

• Trump is not an 'employee.' He is an elected official.
• Trump is not the only person designated as having classification and declassification authority.
• The legal authority to do something isn't the issue here.

Declassification is a process, not a mental telephony exercise, by someone trying to come up with lies about how he came to possess the SCIF-level documents. Storing those documents in the manner he did was an egregious violation of procedures, not to mention the potential for unauthorized exposure of those documents.

Declassifying nuclear-related documents is a highly sensitive matter due to the potential implications for national security, non-proliferation efforts, and international relations. While the President has the authority to declassify such documents, the process involves extensive consultation with national security advisors, relevant agencies such as the Department of Defense and the Department of Energy, and often with foreign partners if the information pertains to international agreements or treaties. Trump did none of these things by his own admission.

Let's start with the facts about the situation: he had no secure manner of transporting those documents from the Whitehouse to Mar-a-Lago and Bedminster. He lied about those documents being at Mar-a-Lago. He claimed they were personal documents. When it was discovered that some of them were classified, he claimed he declassified them. When challenged about how that process of notification was done, e.g., show the manner and appropriate filings, he changed the story - 'I could declassify just by thinking about it.' How absurd was that for a lie?

He tried to hide documents from his own attorney before the search warrant.

'I gave them all back.' This was another lie. The lawyer signed a document claiming he did give them back.

The search warrant proved Trump kept other classified documents.

Tell me, what person in his 'right mind' would want someone like Donald Trump in charge of declassifying nuclear secrets about our weaponry, our battle strategies, our capability to acquire info, or even putting the lives of individuals at risk as resources for that info?

You wouldn't give a loaded gun to a man who thinks he can just mentally shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it, would you?

The authority to make a decision is not blanket permission to violate the intent of the right to decide.

You carry pond scum water for a slimy snail guy who lies about everything. Do better; stop supporting a wrong cause.

 

[icanhelp1]

So, if trump were to be charged on this allegation and I don’t think he is either, your defense of trump revealing classified nuclear submarine information to an Australian businessman boils down to people probably knew about it anyway. Have fun in court indeed.

The question is, was it a breach of national security or was it a case of over-classification? You framed it as secret info while the whole world knows about it. If it was info on operational tempo then all bets are off and Trump should be charged in accordance with what statute is applicable. Trump was also trying to make a sale without divulging classified technical details. We’ll see. If it wasn’t for that the Dems have lied, cheated, weaponized the justice system to get rid of Trump it might hold weight, but Dems cried wolf far too many times, far too many frivolous accusations.

 

[Rightguide]

Off topic, it appears the Supreme Court is going to rule against the obstruction of a government proceeding as a violation or chargeable offense. That’s going to blow up Smith’s case against Trump. Might open up an avenue for a class action suit against the DOJ.

Yet another example of Jack Smith's legendary overreach about to be struck down. The DOJ radicals have misused the law with unique interpretations to go after Trump his supporters and to cast a wide net to ensnare any Republican citizen who happened to be visiting in Washington DC on Jan.6.

 

[icanhelp1]

@icanhelp1 you are not helping this situation by carrying water for this man.

Trump failed to follow protocols for declassification or to handle those documents in a proscribed manner. These are some points you mistakenly make:

• Trump is not an 'employee.' He is an elected official.
• Trump is not the only person designated as having classification and declassification authority.
• The legal authority to do something isn't the issue here.

Declassification is a process, not a mental telephony exercise, by someone trying to come up with lies about how he came to possess the SCIF-level documents. Storing those documents in the manner he did was an egregious violation of procedures, not to mention the potential for unauthorized exposure of those documents.

Declassifying nuclear-related documents is a highly sensitive matter due to the potential implications for national security, non-proliferation efforts, and international relations. While the President has the authority to declassify such documents, the process involves extensive consultation with national security advisors, relevant agencies such as the Department of Defense and the Department of Energy, and often with foreign partners if the information pertains to international agreements or treaties. Trump did none of these things by his own admission.

Let's start with the facts about the situation: he had no secure manner of transporting those documents from the Whitehouse to Mar-a-Lago and Bedminster. He lied about those documents being at Mar-a-Lago. He claimed they were personal documents. When it was discovered that some of them were classified, he claimed he declassified them. When challenged about how that process of notification was done, e.g., show the manner and appropriate filings, he changed the story - 'I could declassify just by thinking about it.' How absurd was that for a lie?

He tried to hide documents from his own attorney before the search warrant.

'I gave them all back.' This was another lie. The lawyer signed a document claiming he did give them back.

The search warrant proved Trump kept other classified documents.

Tell me, what person in his 'right mind' would want someone like Donald Trump in charge of declassifying nuclear secrets about our weaponry, our battle strategies, our capability to acquire info, or even putting the lives of individuals at risk as resources for that info?

You wouldn't give a loaded gun to a man who thinks he can just mentally shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it, would you?

The authority to make a decision is not blanket permission to violate the intent of the right to decide.

You carry pond scum water for a slimy snail guy who lies about everything. Do better; stop supporting a wrong cause.

What protocols are you referring to?

 

[dmallord]

I think that the judge designating a Wednesday for addressing the contempt issues, a day Trump thought he'd have off to campaign or "whatever," was something that would get Trump's attention. Better than $1,000 fines for each breach (which, I understand, is the maximum allowed). Make his breaches tie up his time outside of court.

That was a 'nasty' decision that should have Trump nearly in another apoplectic moment of steam coming out of his ears.

 

[icanhelp1]

Yet another example of Jack Smith's legendary overreach about to be struck down. The DOJ radicals have misused the law with unique interpretations to go after Trump his supporters and to cast a wide net to ensnare any Republican citizen who happened to be visiting in Washington DC on Jan.6.

What can you expect from an Andrew Weissmann clone?

 

[dmallord]

What protocols are you referring to?

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-10/chapter-X/part-1045 gives you a starting point.

 

[dmallord]

Common knowledge;

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...would-be-stupid-but-do-not-appear-classified/

That in mind, here are some things that the Russian navy and the People’s Liberation Army Navy (thanks largely to the Russian navy) already know.

• They know that U.S. nuclear attack submarines can get within a few feet of their own submarines without being detected. Indeed, they know that their first counter-detection can come with collision.
• They know that the U.S. has 14 nuclear ballistic missile submarines. They know that each of these submarines carries 20 Trident missiles and that those missiles are each loaded with between five to eight warheads (with a capacity for 12 warheads per missile). That’s 100-160 warheads per submarine. They know that were U.S. Strategic Command to fear war, it would surge its ballistic missile fleet out to sea and load each submarine’s missile to its max 12-warhead capacity.
• They know that nearly every time one of their own nuclear ballistic missile submarines departs Hainan Island, Qingdao, Vladivostok, or Murmansk, a U.S. nuclear attack submarine will attempt to shadow that submarine for the duration of its patrol. They know the U.S. will hold their missile submarines at risk of immediate destruction in the event of war.
• They know that U.S. nuclear attack submarines can operate undetected in their territorial waters. They know that these submarines can secretly deploy and extract special operations or intelligence personnel onto or from their soil.
• They know that U.S. nuclear submarines can access, lay, and retrieve highly sensitive intelligence, communications, and surveillance devices on the seafloor deep inside their territory.
• They know that U.S. submarine forces are unparalleled in skill and capability but increasingly weakened by a mismanaged industrial base. Both China and Russia are advancing their own submarine forces so as to take advantage of this vulnerability.

This is the real classified material, operational tempo. vvvvvv If it’s already public knowledge then how is that a breach of national security. Have fun in court.
Do not misunderstand me. Had Trump told Pratt about U.S. submarine patrol sectors, tactics, strike packages, and specific missions, he would deserve to have the book thrown at him. And if the Justice Department can prove the assertions listed in its indictment of Trump over his handling of dozens of classified documents, Trump will be convicted and should receive a custodial sentence. After all, these documents are said to include the holy grail of classified intelligence reporting: that related to nuclear weapons intelligence and CIA human agent reporting. The point here is that not all secret-sounding information is classified.

I don’t believe Smith is charging Trump for this allegation.

You're spreading what you believe to be classified info? What right do you have to do that? Common knowledge?

 

[Rightguide]

@icanhelp1 you are not helping this situation by carrying water for this man.

You don't help matters by remaining ignorant of the law and the prerogatives of the Executive regarding classified material. You don't help matters by ignorantly jumping on the persecution train to charge unique applications of the Espionage Act and ignoring the applicable law embodied in the Presidential Records Act in a conspiracy to subvert the 2024 election.

 

[dmallord]

You don't help matters by remaining ignorant of the law and the prerogatives of the Executive regarding classified material. You don't help matters by ignorantly jumping on the persecution train to charge unique applications of the Espionage Act and ignoring the applicable law embodied in the Presidential Records Act in a conspiracy to subvert the 2024 election.

Kind of you to take a page from Trump's playbook and lay the groundwork for another stolen election theory.

The train I would ride runs through Scranton and not through Mar-a-Lago.

 

[Rightguide]

• Trump is not the only person designated as having classification and declassification authority.

"All" classification authority in the Executive Branch of government stems from the plenary powers of the President. There is no higher authority or classification process, or operational process, to which he is subordinate. There is only one Commander in Chief.

 

[Rightguide]

Kind of you to take a page from Trump's playbook and lay the groundwork for another stolen election theory.

The train I would ride runs through Scranton and not through Mar-a-Lago.

Because you are an ignorant follower unfamiliar with the law. I derive my thoughts and responses from the Constitution and the law. I don't give a shit about Mar-a-Lago or Scranton.

 

[dmallord]

"All" classification authority in the Executive Branch of government stems from the plenary powers of the President. There is no higher authority or classification process, or operational process, to which he is subordinate. There is only one Commander in Chief.

Yes, it just points out that he isn't the only authority to classify and declassify documents. He follows rules and regulations under that authority. Unless, of course, the Supreme Court says Trump has absolute immunity to do as he wishes.

 

[dmallord]

Because you are an ignorant follower unfamiliar with the law. I derive my thoughts and responses from the Constitution and the law. I don't give a shit about Mar-a-Lago or Scranton.

I'll hold my thoughts on where I believe you derive your thoughts. It's not from the Constitution and the law.

 

[icanhelp1]

@icanhelp1 you are not helping this situation by carrying water for this man.

Trump failed to follow protocols for declassification or to handle those documents in a proscribed manner. These are some points you mistakenly make:

• Trump is not an 'employee.' He is an elected official.
• Trump is not the only person designated as having classification and declassification authority.
• The legal authority to do something isn't the issue here.

Declassification is a process, not a mental telephony exercise, by someone trying to come up with lies about how he came to possess the SCIF-level documents. Storing those documents in the manner he did was an egregious violation of procedures, not to mention the potential for unauthorized exposure of those documents.

Declassifying nuclear-related documents is a highly sensitive matter due to the potential implications for national security, non-proliferation efforts, and international relations. While the President has the authority to declassify such documents, the process involves extensive consultation with national security advisors, relevant agencies such as the Department of Defense and the Department of Energy, and often with foreign partners if the information pertains to international agreements or treaties. Trump did none of these things by his own admission.

Let's start with the facts about the situation: he had no secure manner of transporting those documents from the Whitehouse to Mar-a-Lago and Bedminster. He lied about those documents being at Mar-a-Lago. He claimed they were personal documents. When it was discovered that some of them were classified, he claimed he declassified them. When challenged about how that process of notification was done, e.g., show the manner and appropriate filings, he changed the story - 'I could declassify just by thinking about it.' How absurd was that for a lie?

He tried to hide documents from his own attorney before the search warrant.

'I gave them all back.' This was another lie. The lawyer signed a document claiming he did give them back.

The search warrant proved Trump kept other classified documents.

Tell me, what person in his 'right mind' would want someone like Donald Trump in charge of declassifying nuclear secrets about our weaponry, our battle strategies, our capability to acquire info, or even putting the lives of individuals at risk as resources for that info?

You wouldn't give a loaded gun to a man who thinks he can just mentally shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it, would you?

The authority to make a decision is not blanket permission to violate the intent of the right to decide.

You carry pond scum water for a slimy snail guy who lies about everything. Do better; stop supporting a wrong cause.

You’re talking out of your ass. What battle strategy.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-10/chapter-X/part-1045 gives you a starting point.

I’ve mentioned that statute in earlier posts, that statute pertains to nuclear secrets and the energy department.

 

[Rightguide]

Yes, it just points out that he isn't the only authority to classify and declassify documents. He follows rules and regulations under that authority. Unless, of course, the Supreme Court says Trump has absolute immunity to do as he wishes.

The President is the rule. He is not subordinate to any classification protocol because they all are derived from his authority. He doesn't report to anyone in the government. He doesn't have to ask permission from a subordinate (everyone in the Executive Branch is subordinate to the President) to classify or declassify anything. Ultimately documents are classified for the benefit of the Commander in Chief.

 

[dmallord]

You’re talking out of your ass. What battle strategy.

I’ve mentioned that statute in earlier posts, that statute pertains to nuclear secrets and the energy department.

The plan Trump says Millie proposed and should be hung for is the one he denied he waved during the audio recordings—the one he later claimed wasn't a real document at all. You know, the one he lied about again, then lied about telling a lie about that other lie about the lies.

I know you know about those lies and documents. You're well versed in them. You shouldn't need a reminder. But I'll indulge you.

 

[dmallord]

The President is the rule. He is not subordinate to any classification protocol because they all are derived from his authority. He doesn't report to anyone in the government. He doesn't have to ask permission from a subordinate (everyone in the Executive Branch is subordinate to the President) to classify or declassify anything. Ultimately documents are classified for the benefit of the Commander in Chief.

Clarification point: The president is a ruler, not a rule. By definition, your term would be the wrong noun and grammatically incorrect.

The rest of your post is irrelevant to this discourse.

 

[Rightguide]

What can you expect from an Andrew Weissmann clone?

It's Democrat lawfare. There will be a reckoning if he is reelected. He needs to do what Bill Clinton did when he entered office, He needs to fire all 93 U.S. Attorneys and appoint his own. He needs to fire the top ten people in every government agency and replace them with his own people. He needs to cancel every one of Joe Biden's radical EOs. He needs to put our military on the border and authorize operations inside of Mexico if need be.

 

[icanhelp1]

The plan Trump says Millie proposed and should be hung for is the one he denied he waved during the audio recordings—the one he later claimed wasn't a real document at all. You know, the one he lied about again, then lied about telling a lie about that other lie about the lies.

I know you know about those lies and documents. You're well versed in them. You shouldn't need a reminder. But I'll indulge you.

What plan is that?

 

[KeithD]

Yes, it just points out that he isn't the only authority to classify and declassify documents. He follows rules and regulations under that authority. Unless, of course, the Supreme Court says Trump has absolute immunity to do as he wishes.

The fact is that presidents don't actually classify and declassify documents themselves. And Trump didn't bother to do that. Declassification is a process that goes back to the original classifier. I don't think any president before Trump will claim they personally got into that process on any document.

 

[Rightguide]

Clarification point: The president is a ruler, not a rule. By definition, your term would be the wrong noun and grammatically incorrect.

The rest of your post is irrelevant to this discourse.

All federal rules and regulations stem from Presidential constitutional authority. Your flaccid reply is proof you have no legitimate rejoinder.