The Urgent Need for Democratic Leadership

[ll74]

It was made partisan because of democrats. Rarely see a Democrat crossing the party line and vote with republicans, Dems are about party loyalty over doing what’s right.

Again, there are major parts of HR2 in that bill (including parole reform, which you keep championing as a major ask) They didn't include any path to citizenship or amnesty, which typically is what Democrats use to kill a bill. The Senate bill was the best chance Republicans will get.

HR2 offered nothing to Democrats. It was a political theater bill meant to appeal squarely to the right base and since it offered up no compromise to the left, was easily DOA.

The right was either stupid to squander such a gift from the left or they never wanted to fix any issues at the border

And before you go there, any effort to block asylum completely has been and will be immediately blocked in the courts.

There are efforts underway by some moderate Republicans to revise the Senate bill...... We'll see if it materializes

 

[ll74]

Huh.

I thought the border was secure and any attempt to say otherwise is just misinformation.

That isn't the argument. The argument is that the border is open, even though there are record high apprehensions and deportations.

The argument always originates on the right, who recently rejected a compromise bill that would actually address the problems.

 

[dmallord]

That isn't the argument. The argument is that the border is open, even though there are record high apprehensions and deportations.

The argument always originates on the right, who recently rejected a compromise bill that would actually address the problems.

Arrests of Individuals with Criminal Convictions - Border Patrol Report​

The term “criminal noncitizens” refers to individuals who have been convicted of one or more crimes, whether in the United States or abroad, prior to interdiction by the U.S. Border Patrol; it does not include convictions for conduct that is not deemed criminal by the United States. Arrests of criminal noncitizens are a subset of total apprehensions by U.S. Border Patrol.

FY17 FY18 FY19 FY20 FY21 FY22 FY23 FY24YTD

8,531 6,698 4,269 2,438 10,763 12,028 15,267 5,616

This is the quantified number of individuals caught and arrested for crimes before entering the USA. Of course, it doesn't include the hundreds of thousands, even millions, of them that Donald Trump rants got across the open border.

Still, that is not to say more crime hasn't happened in the USA. I didn't find that number yet. Anyone?

 

[Rightguide]

The shadow of Donald Trump continues to cast a pall over democratic processes in American politics, particularly in border policies. The recent bipartisan bill, a product of collaborative efforts, has faced vehement opposition from Trump and, consequently, the Republican Party. Republicans, without a thorough examination of the bill, raise concerns about the proposal. The Republican Party is slipping back into the murky shadows reminiscent of the old Know-Nothing Party days. A party of failure, a failure for which no lifeboat sails to the rescue it on the Rio Grande River. Indeed, there was no rescue help from Donald Trump – his ship has sailed during the last election.

The remarkable inconsistency in the Republican stance on border issues is perplexing. Once staunch advocates for border wall fixes and withholding funds from war-ravaged countries, the party has executed a complete 180-degree turn. This abrupt change is driven not by policy considerations but by a desperate attempt to give Trump a talking point for the upcoming Presidential Election.

It is disheartening to witness the prioritization of political posturing over practical solutions. The denial of essential funds for addressing border challenges is a strategic move to delay action until it can be conveniently attributed to Trump's influence. This approach leaves the nation in a precarious situation, with the border portrayed as a sieve flooded with various threats. This is as important as the aid to war-ravaged countries struggling for their existence and civilians caught up in those situations. Can our country afford to wait for a quick fix that may never materialize for the border and allies?

The country is currently grappling with a profound lack of leadership skills within the Republican Party, more evident in Congress over paralysis in legislating and holding onto leadership positions. It has been ever-present since the January Sixth Insurrection. This deficiency extends to Republican legislators who seem unwilling to stand up and take the necessary actions the American people demand. The absence of decisive leadership raises concerns about the party's ability to address critical issues and govern effectively. Ineffective leadership and policy decisions that will not bode well in the next elections.

In light of the prevailing view that the bill will die in the House of Representatives, a dire need for change must be called for. To remedy the situation, the Democratic Party must seize the opportunity to expose the lack of Republican leadership. By urging voters to rally behind Democratic candidates across all levels of government, from the presidency to local offices, a powerful statement can be made. The time has come for a sweeping wave of change, a house cleaning that reinvigorates the democratic spirit and places the nation toward pragmatic and inclusive solutions. Through this collective effort, the United States can break free from inconsistent policies and partisan posturing, ushering in an era of genuine leadership and progress. Get to the polls and vote for Democratic candidates. Sweep the Republican stranglehold ‘Know and Do Nothings’ from office! End Donald Trump’s narcissistic power hold once and for all.

Joe Biden is "democratic leadership." If you want to sink the national ship, Joe is your Captain.

 

[dmallord]

Joe Biden is "democratic leadership." If you want to sink the national ship, Joe is your Captain.

O Captain! My Captain!
BY WALT WHITMAN
O Captain! my Captain! our fearful trip is done,
The ship has weather’d every rack, the prize we sought is won,
The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,
While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring;
But O heart! heart! heart!
O the bleeding drops of red,
Where on the deck my Captain lies,
Fallen cold and dead.

Your words brought Walt Whitman's poem to mind. Its solemn words written for Lincoln - the originator of the Republican Party, most say - though today that party of Lincoln is as dead as its creator.

On the other hand, Joe Biden is alive and well, mentally and physically, at the helm of our national ship. Contrary to your thoughts, I believe people like Joe Biden are manning the bilge pumps and mending the sails. Joe has his hands firmly on the ship's wheel, and the rudder runs true.

I look forward to the November legitimate election ballots being cast. I hope to see Joe's firm hand given another four years to fix the damage caused to our political process by his most unworthy opponent. I picture Joe with that Irish smirk as he rights the course and utters some epithetic words at an ex-billionaire.

 

[Bill_Doubleu]

It is the citizen's to blame for what is wrong with the world. Hitler was horrible. But by himself, he was next to nothing. He was supported by idiots. The same idiots that made Vietnam happen. The same idiots who rose in anger not knowing who was to blame for 9/11 but were happy to war on anybody suspected. The same idiots that assaulted the Capital building. The same idiots that listen to Alex Wagner. While not everyone is an idiot, they make up a significant amount of the population. These idiots yearn for war while claiming they are only defending themselves. The human condition fueled by Scientific Materialism is yet only, an asteroid being hurtled toward the Sun. The driver's seat has no steering wheel.

 

[Comshaw]

Blah, blah, blah, blah blah. The bill does absolutely nothing to secure the border.

Interpretation: "Everyone needs to do it our way or will take the ball and go home!"

It was a bipartisan bill. Written by representatives of BOTH parties. It says much that the same Republican politicians that wrote the bill were against it when it came to the house. WTF??? They did EXACTLY what I said above.

I don't think we need more leadership from the Democrats in congress, we need some REAL leadership for the Republican side. There isn't any at this time. Every time there is a spark of real leadership that shows up (like the work on this bill) it gets pissed on by donald's supporters. It's time for the Republicans in congress to get back to being adults.

Comshaw

 

[icanhelp1]

Interpretation: "Everyone needs to do it our way or will take the ball and go home!"

It was a bipartisan bill. Written by representatives of BOTH parties. It says much that the same Republican politicians that wrote the bill were against it when it came to the house. WTF??? They did EXACTLY what I said above.

I don't think we need more leadership from the Democrats in congress, we need some REAL leadership for the Republican side. There isn't any at this time. Every time there is a spark of real leadership that shows up (like the work on this bill) it gets pissed on by donald's supporters. It's time for the Republicans in congress to get back to being adults.

Comshaw

HR-2 was a good bill. Schumer refused to take up the bill. That was a slap in the face to the house initiative 9 months prior to the senate bill. Schumer is a partisan hack and laid the foundation for a negative reaction to the so-called bi-partisan senate bill.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

HR-2 was a good bill. Schumer refused to take up the bill. That was a slap in the face to the house initiative 9 months prior to the senate bill. Schumer is a partisan hack and laid the foundation for a negative reaction to the so-called bi-partisan senate bill.

The bipartisan Senate bill on border security was a good bill and Mike Johnson killed it. Fuck off with your "its my way or nothing attitude".
Disagree, show me the comparison between the two and point out where HR-2 was good, and the Senate bill wasn't.

Do you have balls to compare them???

 

[icanhelp1]

The bipartisan Senate bill on border security was a good bill and Mike Johnson killed it. Fuck off with your "its my way or nothing attitude".
Disagree, show me the comparison between the two and point out where HR-2 was good, and the Senate bill wasn't.

Do you have balls to compare them???

I read both bills and not wanting to get into specifics right now we need immigration policy that reflects the will of the people and puts our national interest ahead of foreigners.

We’re bleeding resources at a time where interest on our debt is equal to our defense budget, unsustainable.

 

[ll74]

I read both bills and not wanting to get into specifics right now we need immigration policy that reflects the will of the people and puts our national interest ahead of foreigners.

We’re bleeding resources at a time where interest on our debt is equal to our defense budget, unsustainable.

Both bills actually do that. The Senate bill goes further in restricting Presidential powers such as parole and sets a limit on asylum claims

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I read both bills and not wanting to get into specifics right now

NO the whole point of your hate on the Senate bill is specifics, so compare the two bills, show exactly where one is a failure and the other a win.

 

[icanhelp1]

Both bills actually do that. The Senate bill goes further in restricting Presidential powers such as parole and sets a limit on asylum claims

In the senate bill, according to constitutional lawyers, the executive branch can adjust the numbers.

NO the whole point of your hate on the Senate bill is specifics, so compare the two bills, show exactly where one is a failure and the other a win.

A few issues that the senate bill fails to address and conservatives house republicans won't budge on.

1. Doesn't secure the border
2. Expands work authorization for illegals. That in itself is incentivizing a rush to the border.
3. Allowing the release of illegals from physical custody is the equivalent to catch and release.
4. Shut down authority *IS RIDDLED WITH LOOPHOLES* grants too much discretionary authority to DHS.
5. The bill fails to address the president's abuse of parole.
6. Fails to address taxpayers paying for transporting and sheltering illegals which is exacerbated by abusing the parole policy and catch and release.
7. Failure by the senate to take up HR-2 which would actually stem the flow of illegals.
8. Many conservative want a net zero, 100% deportation for all illegals that enter outside ports of entry.
9. Eliminate sanctuary status in states. Re-establish ICE authority in all jurisdictions.

10. Allows Biden to postpone any wall building and other border infrastructure.

In my opinion the bill does not cater to our national interest, excessive spending on illegals for transportation and housing while not addressing the strain millions of illegals pose on our infrastructure, medical institutions and education system. Dems want a road to citizenship which will incentivize even more illegal border crossings.

Just to name a few.

 

[Rightguide]

The

The shadow of Donald Trump continues to cast a pall over democratic processes in American politics, particularly in border policies. The recent bipartisan bill, a product of collaborative efforts, has faced vehement opposition from Trump and, consequently, the Republican Party. Republicans, without a thorough examination of the bill, raise concerns about the proposal. The Republican Party is slipping back into the murky shadows reminiscent of the old Know-Nothing Party days. A party of failure, a failure for which no lifeboat sails to the rescue it on the Rio Grande River. Indeed, there was no rescue help from Donald Trump – his ship has sailed during the last election.

The remarkable inconsistency in the Republican stance on border issues is perplexing. Once staunch advocates for border wall fixes and withholding funds from war-ravaged countries, the party has executed a complete 180-degree turn. This abrupt change is driven not by policy considerations but by a desperate attempt to give Trump a talking point for the upcoming Presidential Election.

It is disheartening to witness the prioritization of political posturing over practical solutions. The denial of essential funds for addressing border challenges is a strategic move to delay action until it can be conveniently attributed to Trump's influence. This approach leaves the nation in a precarious situation, with the border portrayed as a sieve flooded with various threats. This is as important as the aid to war-ravaged countries struggling for their existence and civilians caught up in those situations. Can our country afford to wait for a quick fix that may never materialize for the border and allies?

The country is currently grappling with a profound lack of leadership skills within the Republican Party, more evident in Congress over paralysis in legislating and holding onto leadership positions. It has been ever-present since the January Sixth Insurrection. This deficiency extends to Republican legislators who seem unwilling to stand up and take the necessary actions the American people demand. The absence of decisive leadership raises concerns about the party's ability to address critical issues and govern effectively. Ineffective leadership and policy decisions that will not bode well in the next elections.

In light of the prevailing view that the bill will die in the House of Representatives, a dire need for change must be called for. To remedy the situation, the Democratic Party must seize the opportunity to expose the lack of Republican leadership. By urging voters to rally behind Democratic candidates across all levels of government, from the presidency to local offices, a powerful statement can be made. The time has come for a sweeping wave of change, a house cleaning that reinvigorates the democratic spirit and places the nation toward pragmatic and inclusive solutions. Through this collective effort, the United States can break free from inconsistent policies and partisan posturing, ushering in an era of genuine leadership and progress. Get to the polls and vote for Democratic candidates. Sweep the Republican stranglehold ‘Know and Do Nothings’ from office! End Donald Trump’s narcissistic power hold once and for all.

The urgent need for Democrat leadership is a myth.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

In the senate bill, according to constitutional lawyers, the executive branch can adjust the numbers.

A few issues that the senate bill fails to address and conservatives house republicans won't budge on.

1. Doesn't secure the border
2. Expands work authorization for illegals. That in itself is incentivizing a rush to the border.
3. Allowing the release of illegals from physical custody is the equivalent to catch and release.
4. Shut down authority *IS RIDDLED WITH LOOPHOLES* grants too much discretionary authority to DHS.
5. The bill fails to address the president's abuse of parole.
6. Fails to address taxpayers paying for transporting and sheltering illegals which is exacerbated by abusing the parole policy and catch and release.
7. Failure by the senate to take up HR-2 which would actually stem the flow of illegals.
8. Many conservative want a net zero, 100% deportation for all illegals that enter outside ports of entry.
9. Eliminate sanctuary status in states. Re-establish ICE authority in all jurisdictions.

10. Allows Biden to postpone any wall building and other border infrastructure.

In my opinion the bill does not cater to our national interest, excessive spending on illegals for transportation and housing while not addressing the strain millions of illegals pose on our infrastructure, medical institutions and education system. Dems want a road to citizenship which will incentivize even more illegal border crossings.

Just to name a few.

Thank you, now show me where HR-2 does fill those gaps you have pointed out.

 

[ll74]

In the senate bill, according to constitutional lawyers, the executive branch can adjust the numbers.

I'm gonna need more than this - source?

 

[icanhelp1]

Thank you, now show me where HR-2 does fill those gaps you have pointed out.

Thank you, now show me where HR-2 does fill those gaps you have pointed out.

Read it for yourself, you wouldn't believe me anyway.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2/text

 

[Rightguide]

Read it for yourself, you wouldn't believe me anyway.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2/text

They just can't bring themselves to face the enemy of their deeply indoctrinated belief systems, the simple truth.

 

[Rightguide]

O Captain! My Captain!
BY WALT WHITMAN
O Captain! my Captain! our fearful trip is done,
The ship has weather’d every rack, the prize we sought is won,
The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,
While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring;
But O heart! heart! heart!
O the bleeding drops of red,
Where on the deck my Captain lies,
Fallen cold and dead.

Your words brought Walt Whitman's poem to mind. Its solemn words written for Lincoln - the originator of the Republican Party, most say - though today that party of Lincoln is as dead as its creator.

On the other hand, Joe Biden is alive and well, mentally and physically, at the helm of our national ship. Contrary to your thoughts, I believe people like Joe Biden are manning the bilge pumps and mending the sails. Joe has his hands firmly on the ship's wheel, and the rudder runs true.

I look forward to the November legitimate election ballots being cast. I hope to see Joe's firm hand given another four years to fix the damage caused to our political process by his most unworthy opponent. I picture Joe with that Irish smirk as he rights the course and utters some epithetic words at an ex-billionaire.

The urgent national need at present is the demise of Democrat Party leadership. They are destroying the country.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Read it for yourself, you wouldn't believe me anyway.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2/text

So you won't compare them. *chuckles* I'm not surprised. Everything that I know that was in the Senate bill was an improvement over the current situation. So I'm sorry if I can't see whats wrong with the bill. I also can't see what's so great about HR-2, other than the fact it was written by the Republicans, with no Democrats input.

You failing to actually do the comparison is only more proof that you only care about bitching about the border, not actually addressing and fixing whats wrong.

 

[icanhelp1]

So you won't compare them. *chuckles* I'm not surprised. Everything that I know that was in the Senate bill was an improvement over the current situation. So I'm sorry if I can't see whats wrong with the bill. I also can't see what's so great about HR-2, other than the fact it was written by the Republicans, with no Democrats input.

You failing to actually do the comparison is only more proof that you only care about bitching about the border, not actually addressing and fixing whats wrong.

I gave you the bill, read it!!

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I gave you the bill, read it!!

I want your answer to why HR-2 covers items #1 through 10 below.

1. Doesn't secure the border
2. Expands work authorization for illegals. That in itself is incentivizing a rush to the border.
3. Allowing the release of illegals from physical custody is the equivalent to catch and release.
4. Shut down authority *IS RIDDLED WITH LOOPHOLES* grants too much discretionary authority to DHS.
5. The bill fails to address the president's abuse of parole.
6. Fails to address taxpayers paying for transporting and sheltering illegals which is exacerbated by abusing the parole policy and catch and release.
7. Failure by the senate to take up HR-2 which would actually stem the flow of illegals.
8. Many conservative want a net zero, 100% deportation for all illegals that enter outside ports of entry.
9. Eliminate sanctuary status in states. Re-establish ICE authority in all jurisdictions.

10. Allows Biden to postpone any wall building and other border infrastructure.

You claim the Senate bill doesn't cover these, I doubt your claim.

 

[icanhelp1]

I want your answer to why HR-2 covers items #1 through 10 below.


You claim the Senate bill doesn't cover these, I doubt your claim.

Sucks to be you!

 

[adrina]

Sucks to be you!

Irony.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Sucks to be you!

I'm not the one here who fails to see how EITHER bill solves #1 through #10.

I gave you an honest chance, and you didn't even get halfway , all you did was list what you don't like.