Vampires

[gunhilltrain]

There has been a number of discussions about vampires on here. I don't want to do a thread drift, so I'll start this one. In 1974 I had a course with an English professor, Paul Oppenheimer. I think the full title was The Vampire: Ideas of Evil in Western Civilization. The guy was quirky but brilliant. I'd rate him as one of the best professors I ever had. We read Dracula, of course, but also Dante, Poe, and others. He passed at couple of years ago at the age of 83.

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/nytimes/name/paul-oppenheimer-obituary?id=36089178

https://www.ccny.cuny.edu/profiles/paul-oppenheimer

 

[KeithD]

Vampires? Yes, I have vampire stories here.

 

[SimonDoom]

The old of vampires on the imagination is amazing. I read that Dracula has been turned into more movie adaptations than any other novel. I've been reading vampire stories since the 1970s, and coincidentally I just finished the original Dracula for the first time about a week ago.

I have yet to write a vampire story.

 

[MillieDynamite]

You're a fan of Vampire, and it took you more than half a century of fandom to read the King of all Vampire stories. @SimonDoom, I just lost all that respect you had built up with me!

The old of vampires on the imagination is amazing. I read that Dracula has been turned into more movie adaptations than any other novel. I've been reading vampire stories since the 1970s, and coincidentally I just finished the original Dracula for the first time about a week ago.

I have yet to write a vampire story.

 

[SimonDoom]

You're a fan of Vampire, and it took you more than half a century of fandom to read the King of all Vampire stories. @SimonDoom, I just lost all that respect you had built up with me!

I'm sorry to have fallen so far in your estimation! For a long time I felt like I'd read so many other vampire books and seen so many Dracula interpretations that I didn't need to read the book.

Now having read it, I can say I'm glad I read it, but it's not great literature. It's very 19th century gothic.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Bram Stoker created the modern view of the Vampire. I love the language, as overblown and flowering as some of it is. You'll have noticed Drac isn't restricted to the darkness of the night. He isn't allergic to light. I've tried to follow that theme in my vampire stories. However, I think I have one work that I used that trope on. I don't have them have harrie palms!

I'm sorry to have fallen so far in your estimation! For a long time I felt like I'd read so many other vampire books and seen so many Dracula interpretations that I didn't need to read the book.

Now having read it, I can say I'm glad I read it, but it's not great literature. It's very 19th century gothic.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Bram Stoker created the modern view of the Vampire. I love the language, as overblown and flowering as some of it is. You'll have noticed Drac isn't restricted to the darkness of the night. He isn't allergic to light. I've tried to follow that theme in my vampire stories. However, I think I have one work that I used that trope on. I don't have them have harrie palms!

Interesting to compare Dracula with the 1922 film Nosferatu. That one goes out in the light too. But I don't think he even speaks. He's completely monstrous, and lacks any of the charm and sexiness that various other vampire works depict.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Schreck.jpg?20200106163508

 

[AchtungNight]

If a vampire sparkles, know that you have encountered one of the really dangerous ones and it needs to die asap.

 

[samhasstories]

Interesting to compare Dracula with the 1922 film Nosferatu. That one goes out in the light too. But I don't think he even speaks. He's completely monstrous, and lacks any of the charm and sexiness that various other vampire works depict.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Schreck.jpg?20200106163508

I think I recall reading something about there being some legal disputes about Nosferatu, because it borrows so much from Dracula. Which is really interesting now, given that vampires have become essentially its own genre, and so much of that qualifies as trope by this point. You could make basically that same movie now, change little more than the names, and no one would think twice about it being an infringement.

Vampires, like zombies, are tricky because there's just so much of it out there. I think when done well they can be fascinating and terrifying and can make for a hell of a story. And as such I'm always open to finding a new and original vampire story. But I'm not out there wading through the backlog, because there's just so damn much of it, and a lot of it doesn't seem to be doing much that's new and interesting.

 

[MillieDynamite]

No, he is destroyed by sunlight because he fucked the woman too long (drank her blood) and got caught at sunrise.

Interesting to compare Dracula with the 1922 film Nosferatu. That one goes out in the light too. But I don't think he even speaks. He's completely monstrous, and lacks any of the charm and sexiness that various other vampire works depict.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Schreck.jpg?20200106163508

 

[Tio_Narratore]

As a historical note, a colleague of mine excavating a 12th Century graveyard in Transylvania did unearth one skeleton with a wooden stake through its ribcage.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I hope he didn't remove it!!! Bad things can happen then.

As a historical note, a colleague of mine excavating a 12th Century graveyard in Transylvania did unearth one skeleton with a wooden stake through its ribcage.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

I hope he didn't remove it!!! Bad things can happen then.

Knowing her, the only thing that would have stopped her from removing it to see what happened was archaeological ethics; context must be preserved.

 

[StillStunned]

Sheridan Le Fanu's short story "Carmilla" was the precursor to Stoker's Dracula. And a lot sexier, too. It was also part of the inspiration for my EH story "The Countesses of Tannensdal".

 

[SimonDoom]

The master in Salems Lot, scared the bejesus outa me back in the day laughed .

Salem's Lot was the first vampire novel I ever read, way back when it came out, or around then, and it's still one of my favorites.

It's interesting to see all the ways in which the legend is interpreted and adapted. For instance, the "monster" vampire in Nosferatu (plus the updated Nosferatu with Klaus Kinski, which I enjoyed) and in the first TV movie adaptation of Salem's Lot (which I didn't like at all), compared to the romantic and sexy vampires.

As Millie pointed out, Bram Stoker's Dracula depicted a vampire who go out in daytime. I didn't realize that until I read it.

 

[UnquietDreams]

I am a big fan of vampire stories, and love Dracula. I read it again for the first time in about forty years using Dracula Daily, which emails the section of the book that pertains to that date. So, for example, on May 3rd you get Jonathan Harker's journal entries for that day, when he first enters Transylvania. It is a fun way to break it up.

Anyway, what struck me on that readthrough was how much ass Mina Harker kicks, especially for a book written by a man in 1897. She has an amazing amount of agency for a book where women swoon at the drop of a bat. The only reason I dislike Francis Ford Coppola's version, which gets so much right, is how they ruin her character. In Coppola's version, she is a reincarnation of Dracula's wife, and she falls in love with him (because that is genetic?) and gives up everything: her husband, her best friend whom Dracula turned into a child-murdering monster, and her family. Dracula is a tragic romantic figure, and Mina his devoted redemption. (Also, I love Keanu, but serious acting with an accent is not his forte.)

BookMina hated him, and went through hell in order to bring him down. No romance -- Drac is a straight-up rapist and a monster, and is destroyed because Mina works to do it. She never gives up on her love to Jonathan, and he never gives up on her. It is a love story, just not the one Coppola wrote.

 

[UnquietDreams]

I think I recall reading something about there being some legal disputes about Nosferatu, because it borrows so much from Dracula. Which is really interesting now, given that vampires have become essentially its own genre, and so much of that qualifies as trope by this point. You could make basically that same movie now, change little more than the names, and no one would think twice about it being an infringement.

Vampires, like zombies, are tricky because there's just so much of it out there. I think when done well they can be fascinating and terrifying and can make for a hell of a story. And as such I'm always open to finding a new and original vampire story. But I'm not out there wading through the backlog, because there's just so damn much of it, and a lot of it doesn't seem to be doing much that's new and interesting.

Nosferatu doesn't borrow, it steals the whole story and changes the name. Which doesn't make it any less awesome. It is a legitimate miracle that any of the film's copies survived, as it lost the copyright battle with Stoker's widow and all copies were supposed to be destroyed.

Oh, a change from Dracula? Orlok is vulnerable to the sun's light. That isn't in the original.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Varney the Vampire was also out and about in daylight. I think that The Vampyre, by John William Polidori, was also able to be in sunlight. Of course, that vampire was modeled on Lord Byron. I get the impression that Polidori had some issues with the good Lord George Gordon Byron.

Salem's Lot was the first vampire novel I ever read, way back when it came out, or around then, and it's still one of my favorites.

It's interesting to see all the ways in which the legend is interpreted and adapted. For instance, the "monster" vampire in Nosferatu (plus the updated Nosferatu with Klaus Kinski, which I enjoyed) and in the first TV movie adaptation of Salem's Lot (which I didn't like at all), compared to the romantic and sexy vampires.

As Millie pointed out, Bram Stoker's Dracula depicted a vampire who go out in daytime. I didn't realize that until I read it.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I've got a lesbian vampire story kicking around between my ears. It starts as an infatuation story, two women drawn together and they slowly become romantic. The vampire is about to tell her secret when the human woman shows up with a broken arm and bruises that could only come from a beating. It gets sticky from there on. I'll get to it one day.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

I started one a while ago about a vampire who signs a contract with the new socialist government to allow them to use him and his castle as a tourist attraction in return for letting him out once a month to find a meal. There are some other aspects to the contract as well. I should get back to it.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I was never that big into vamps, but I did love True Blood. Vamps going out in the daylight is real lore to me. It makes sense to nerf them some, but I think that should've never changed. I believe it was True Blood that made the mirror thing make sense, too.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

My first exposure to sexy vampires (and a banging soundtrack, and many other things) was The Lost Boys. Followed of course by Interview with the Vampire (film rather than the Anne Rice books), Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the 1992 film and then the series), then avoiding Twilight, skimming the odd Laurell K Hamilton novel, and then very much enjoying True Blood.

Were there stories prior to Lost Boys which included the concepts of master vs half/weaker vampires, and inviting a vampire in makes you helpless? Both were significant in Buffy but I don't recall that in Dracula.

 

[gunhilltrain]

No, he is destroyed by sunlight because he fucked the woman too long (drank her blood) and got caught at sunrise.

I've never seen it straight through, but there is a version available on-line. In some scenes he seems to be outside in the daytime - I guess that's before he met the woman? When he's on the ship starting around the one-hour, thirty-three second mark - is that during the day?

 

[gunhilltrain]

Nosferatu doesn't borrow, it steals the whole story and changes the name. Which doesn't make it any less awesome. It is a legitimate miracle that any of the film's copies survived, as it lost the copyright battle with Stoker's widow and all copies were supposed to be destroyed.

Oh, a change from Dracula? Orlok is vulnerable to the sun's light. That isn't in the original.

There seems to be some significant differences, In he novel, Dracula never leaves Transylvania, and he's eventually killed there. In the movie, he follows the main character onto a ship, and then causes some havoc in Germany. That is where he finally drinks the blood of a "pure-hearted" woman, which results in his destruction by daylight.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Sheridan Le Fanu's short story "Carmilla" was the precursor to Stoker's Dracula. And a lot sexier, too. It was also part of the inspiration for my EH story "The Countesses of Tannensdal".

Before Carmilla, for English-language precursors, there's also Rymer/Prest's "Varney the Vampire" (1845-1847) and Polidori's aforementioned "The Vampyre" (1819).

Coleridge's "Christabel" (written around 1800, published 1816, incomplete) isn't explicitly vampiric but has many elements that later became vampire tropes, and seems to have been an inspiration to "Carmilla".

Were there stories prior to Lost Boys which included the concepts of master vs half/weaker vampires, and inviting a vampire in makes you helpless? Both were significant in Buffy but I don't recall that in Dracula.

Re. invitations, this passage from "Christabel" probably influenced later portrayals:

They crossed the moat, and Christabel
Took the key that fitted well;
A little door she opened straight,
All in the middle of the gate;
The gate that was ironed within and without,
Where an army in battle array had marched out.
The lady sank, belike through pain,
And Christabel with might and main
Lifted her up, a weary weight,
Over the threshold of the gate:
Then the lady rose again,
And moved, as she were not in pain.

Possibly also referencing the vulnerability of fairies to cold iron, but here we have a vampire-like creature who needs a resident's assistance to cross the threshold. I expect that was also inspired by earlier folklore.

Master vs. servant vampires: Dracula's wives, in the original novel and the short story "Dracula's Guest", seem to be vampiric but under Dracula's command; I think Lucy, after Dracula turns her, is also presented this way.

There seems to be some significant differences, In he novel, Dracula never leaves Transylvania, and he's eventually killed there.

That's not right. Dracula comes to England and inflicts horrors there, but Van Helsing and co. destroy his havens and drive him back to Transylvania before hunting him down and killing him in his old haunts.

BTW, I don't think 1 hour 33 minutes is the right time for the sunlight? scene you mention in Nosferatu - that's the end of the movie.