Is oriental racist? Alternatives?

[MillieDynamite]

Not that my head cold is a good excuse, but it's the only one I have at the moment.

Yes, "Oriental Express" sounds like the name of an Asian delivery restaurant owned by non-Asians.

 

[KeithD]

Yes, "Oriental Express" sounds like the name of an Asian delivery restaurant owned by non-Asians.

It's the Orient Express because it terminates on the edge of the Orient (as opposed to Occident) at Istanbul.

 

[Britva415]

No, the term refers to "from the Orient"; simple as that: anything else read into that is something that does not follow.

It's ignorant and gauche.

"Oriental" was the label used for Asians during historical events when they were racially persecuted and discriminated against. That history is what caused the label to become disfavored and replaced with ones with less hateful baggage.

That stuff happened. And it's why the term isn't preferred anymore. It's gauche at best, even if not employed racistically in a particular instance today. It's ignorant to not know these facts and it's racist to know it but deny it.

I've seen this kind of argument before: "Why did the woke snowflakes have to go ruin a perfectly good word." Well, that isn't what happened. The people who ruined it were the people who used it while perpetrating discrimination and hate against a group of human beings.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I've seen this kind of argument before: "Why did the woke snowflakes have to go ruin a perfectly good word." Well, that isn't what happened. The people who ruined it were the people who used it while perpetrating discrimination and hate against a group of human beings.

I'd argue, ignoring the overtones, oriental isn't a particularly great word anyway. If I say I saw an oriental man in the street (and the fact that sentence feels weird to type says a lot), what kind of person are you picturing? It can cover the Middle East, the Indian subcontinent, the Stans, South-East Asia and China, Japan and Korea - enough ground to be pretty useless as a description. (Hell, I guess it can also apply to Russia if we're talking about things like orthodox architecture) When goods came to Europe from the Silk Road or when ships returned from 'the East' having probably visited multiple of those places, maybe oriental had a place. These days, even if you don't know a persons nationality and are merely describiing their physical appearance, there's inevitably a far better choice of words.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'd argue, ignoring the overtones, oriental isn't a particularly great word anyway. If I say I saw an oriental man in the street (and the fact that sentence feels weird to type says a lot), what kind of person are you picturing? It can cover the Middle East, the Indian subcontinent, the Stans, South-East Asia and China, Japan and Korea - enough ground to be pretty useless as a description.

That's not unrelated to the overtones. It's a word for people who didn't feel a need to distinguish between all those very different varieties of "not like us".

 

[TheRedChamber]

That's not unrelated to the overtones. It's a word for people who didn't feel a need to distinguish between all those very different varieties of "not like us".

Sure. All I'm saying is that even if it wasn't racist or someone doesn't think it's racist, it's not a particularly useful word except, as you say, for lumping in various 'others'.

 

[Nurek]

It refers to "Of the Far East", so yes, it is a perfectly valid term; regardless of the views of the woke snowflakes, who themselves are too mentally weak to be heeded.

 

[TadOverdon]

It refers to "Of the Far East", so yes, it is a perfectly valid term; regardless of the views of the woke snowflakes, who themselves are too mentally weak to be heeded.

This is too precious.

Here's a dime.

 

[lovecraft68]

Nothing more fun than watching a bunch of white people deciding what terms are and are not offensive to other people (because as we all know, those people can't decide for themselves or speak up for themselves, they need white people to do it for them), then arguing over it, and of course being completely self-righteous in their indignation.

Okay, I'm lying, its not funny, nothing about the 'progressives" own very special brand of racism is.

 

[God_Above]

It refers to "Of the Far East", so yes, it is a perfectly valid term; regardless of the views of the woke snowflakes, who themselves are too mentally weak to be heeded.

I have a special place for you.


You DO like it warm, don't you?

 

[MillieDynamite]

And cracker peckerwood is a perfectly acceptable term for you.

It refers to "Of the Far East", so yes, it is a perfectly valid term; regardless of the views of the woke snowflakes, who themselves are too mentally weak to be heeded.

 

[TadOverdon]

As Chrissy Teigen put it, if you're over fifty the use of "Oriental" to refer to people is "forgivable ignorance."

Her suggestion? "Just say 'Asian.'"

God, is it really that complicated? :lol:

 

[TadOverdon]

And cracker peckerwood is a perfectly acceptable term for you.

Wasn't Cracker Peckerwood a puppet on some old children's show? Mister Rogers or Howdy Doody?

 

[MillieDynamite]

I don't have a clue; it's a term for know-it-all white boys in certain areas of most cities in the South.

Wasn't Cracker Peckerwood a puppet on some old children's show? Mister Rogers or Howdy Doody?

 

[XerXesXu]

Nothing more fun than watching a bunch of white people deciding what terms are and are not offensive to other people (because as we all know, those people can't decide for themselves or speak up for themselves, they need white people to do it for them), then arguing over it, and of course being completely self-righteous in their indignation.

Okay, I'm lying, its not funny, nothing about the 'progressives" own very special brand of racism is.

Quite. The largest community of English speakers in the world is now in China. It's interesting to see Californians, with their disgraceful history, seeking to control what words the largest English speaking community in the world should use and how they should use them.

 

[MillieDynamite]

It also refers to certain woodpeckers, but more often, it is about rude white boys and isn't at all a compliment. Meaning he'd fuck wood if a woman wasn't around and wouldn't do the wood any more good or damage than he can a woman.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

There is one interesting facet of modern Western society. Whoever takes the most extreme stance about being offended by something is considered to be in the right, almost automatically. It seems to me that everyone is so preoccupied with offending somebody in a racial or sexist or some other sense that I am not even sure how anything is being said at all.
To make myself a bit more clear, I believe that someone claiming that some word is offensive to them shouldn't be automatically accepted. If you have some objective reason, then yeah, of course, but if not, you are just inhibiting my right to speak freely.
I am just saying this in general as it is one curious aspect of your culture. I can't claim to understand this particular case though. It seems to me that this is a US thing mostly as I have seen more than a few Chinese restaurants with "oriental" in their name.

 

[TadOverdon]

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Cracker Peckerwood.

 

[MillieDynamite]

This is a reference to the region the food is from. The Far East is the Orient. The food served is Orential, repaired, and served by Asians.

There is one interesting facet of modern Western society. Whoever takes the most extreme stance about being offended by something is considered to be in the right, almost automatically. It seems to me that everyone is so preoccupied with offending somebody in a racial or sexist or some other sense that I am not even sure how anything is being said at all.
To make myself a bit more clear, I believe that someone claiming that some word is offensive to them shouldn't be automatically accepted. If you have some objective reason, then yeah, of course, but if not, you are just inhibiting my right to speak freely.
I am just saying this in general as it is one curious aspect of your culture. I can't claim to understand this particular case though. It seems to me that this is a US thing mostly as I have seen more than a few Chinese restaurants with "oriental" in their name.

 

[Britva415]

.

 

[Britva415]

.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

when someone wants to be racist towards me, the term 'oriental' is usually not their weapon of choice.
That said, there's a certain 'exotification' that the term evokes when referencing a person or people that even at its most well-meaning is very uncomfortable. In other words, if you call me 'oriental', I'll not think kindly of you and I'll probably ask you not to call me that again.
Asian is fine.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I believe that someone claiming that some word is offensive to them shouldn't be automatically accepted. If you have some objective reason, then yeah, of course, but if not, you are just inhibiting my right to speak freely.

No, you have the right to your speech. Just that you don't get to both speak 'freely' and not have people think you're a knob.

My friend David hates being called Dave. I'm perfectly free to call him Dave, but if I do, knowing he hates it, he and others will think I'm a cunt. Same principle.

 

[God_Above]

Dave's here.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It refers to "Of the Far East", so yes, it is a perfectly valid term; regardless of the views of the woke snowflakes, who themselves are too mentally weak to be heeded.

The word "awful" comes from "full of awe", referring to something impressive and worthy of awe. It was commonly used to describe God.

The word "silly" comes from "seely", referring to something happy or fortuitous.

The word "egregious" comes from Latin "egregius", referring to something distinguished. (Literally, "e-" = "out of" and "gregius" = "crowd".)

So I trust you'll take it as a compliment if I suggest that your logic is awful and egregious, and that those who support it are silly indeed.