AI Allegations Thread

[Bramblethorn]

I suspect this thread has run its course - forgive me if I’m wrong. Using that as an excuse to pose other questions…

Like: Why? Why would someone use AI to generate a story on Lit? Not for money obviously (unless hoping to win a contest or something?). Fame? Glory? What?
Hoping to improve scores?

I don't get it either, but people will do that kind of thing. I remember seeing similar stuff in the early days of the web - not AI based, just copy-and-paste to create entire websites full of stolen words and pictures, passed off as the site-owner's own creations. There was no money angle to it that I could discern back then, seemed like those people just liked the attention from people who were impressed by "their" artwork, and apparently they didn't care that it wasn't actually theirs.

 

[nice90sguy]

Using AI here makes no sense to me. I just don’t get it…

I do get it.
Look at the "Story Ideas" thread, or the people who seek out authors here to craft stories based on their fantasies.

 

[HordHolm]

I think Laurel has the same answer for AI as every school, university, publishing house, and web-development company in the world right now: she hasn't got the foggiest notion how to fairly handle it.

That's not her fault.

With the added element that if she makes her methods public there is the fear the AI will learn from that how to avoid the detection.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I suspect this thread has run its course - forgive me if I’m wrong. Using that as an excuse to pose other questions…

Like: Why? Why would someone use AI to generate a story on Lit? Not for money obviously (unless hoping to win a contest or something?). Fame? Glory? What?
Hoping to improve scores?

I can certainly understand why a student would be tempted. We’ve all been students. Maybe we attacked some writing assignments with gusto but I suspect that most of the time, students would have been sorely tempted - back in the day - to use AI if it was available. But that’s an example where there’s clearly discernible benefit to the student (work avoidance while hopefully getting a decent grade).

Using AI here makes no sense to me. I just don’t get it…

There's a myriad of reasons that can be summed up as; because they can or want to. This ai shit really is a plague right now. We really should've seen it coming with the chat bots and phone bots that's popped up over the years.

 

[nice90sguy]

That was a really well-worded and clear response from Laurel, and a suprisingly precise explanation of the issues in your rejected story (although you may disagree with her, you have to admit she's made it clear where she sees the issue with it)

I wonder whether she used Chat-GPT....

 

[ElectricBlue]

I also heard back from Laurel. This was the main bulk of her message:

I rechecked your work and do still see parts that appear to be "reworded" by generative AI. Please be aware that Pro-Writing Aid does use generative AI. Generative AI does NOT "create" a story - it mashes together words from a library of (stolen) works, and the result is bland and toneless. If everyone on Lit chose to use generative AI, every single story on the site would sound exactly the same. Readers hate generative AI text, and they (and us as well) would rather you submitted grammatically wonky work in your own voice than submit generative AI.

We believe that writing is thinking. When you're putting your thoughts to paper (or a .doc file ) - be it a grocery list or a novel - you're organizing and sharpening your thoughts. Every single person who can read can craft a story of some kind. Some of my favorite writers (on Lit or elsewhere) would be flagged by Grammarly. Grammar software is NOT a calculator. While math is fairly objective, grammar is not. Relying on a grammar corrector will not make you a better writer.

This is an important post. Let's all remember this one, and the last sentence especially.

 

[nice90sguy]

Yeah, should be a sticky, really.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I think Laurel has the same answer for AI as every school, university, publishing house, and web-development company in the world right now: she hasn't got the foggiest notion how to fairly handle it.

That's not her fault.

Can confirm. My boss got back from a conference on AI today and her summary was that she'd 'attended 9 sessions where no-one had even the slightest idea about what to do about it, and 1 session where they had an idea but it hadn't worked'.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Another update because I like to make these xD

The two parts that were taken down yesterday were reinstated and the third rejected with a note telling me to make some small adjustments to the language used - nothing major by the looks of it.

I also heard back from Laurel. This was the main bulk of her message:

I rechecked your work and do still see parts that appear to be "reworded" by generative AI. Please be aware that Pro-Writing Aid does use generative AI. Generative AI does NOT "create" a story - it mashes together words from a library of (stolen) works, and the result is bland and toneless. If everyone on Lit chose to use generative AI, every single story on the site would sound exactly the same. Readers hate generative AI text, and they (and us as well) would rather you submitted grammatically wonky work in your own voice than submit generative AI.

We believe that writing is thinking. When you're putting your thoughts to paper (or a .doc file ) - be it a grocery list or a novel - you're organizing and sharpening your thoughts. Every single person who can read can craft a story of some kind. Some of my favorite writers (on Lit or elsewhere) would be flagged by Grammarly. Grammar software is NOT a calculator. While math is fairly objective, grammar is not. Relying on a grammar corrector will not make you a better writer.

It is entirely possible I clicked one these corrections by mistake which may explain why it's been flagged, but this provides a small insight into what's happening.

I mean... she has a point. But I kinda keep asking myself why that is a problem she needs to occupy her day with.

I know that Amazon has a real problem with AI-generated books... but those are objectively shit, and sometimes even dangerous (like the AI-generated guides for mushroom picking, telling the readers about the rich and savory taste of the ones with the red, white-dotted caps). But here?

If a story is bland and boring, readers would vote accordingly, wouldn't they?

 

[ElectricBlue]

I mean... she has a point. But I kinda keep asking myself why that is a problem she needs to occupy her day with.

I know that Amazon has a real problem with AI-generated books... but those are objectively shit, and sometimes even dangerous (like the AI-generated guides for mushroom picking, telling the readers about the rich and savory taste of the ones with the red, white-dotted caps). But here?

If a story is bland and boring, readers would vote accordingly, wouldn't they?

My gut feeling is to say "No" loudly and early, so the site doesn't get swamped by garbage.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Just a word of advice to the OP. If you started this thread to vent your frustrations and to find a sympathetic ear then that is great. It is what the forum is for, among other things. But you seem to be holding onto some wrong ideas as well. Speaking as someone who has criticized Literotica and Laurel more than once, I can tell you that she doesn't care much about this thread you started, nor do I believe your stories being taken down has anything to do with it. Many of us ranted on this forum so many times yet there was never any sign that she even reads these threads.

If your stories were taken down it means she found them suspicious in some way unrelated to this thread. If her suspicions are well founded or not, I really can't say since I haven't got the faintest idea. The woman puts CIA to shame in her secretiveness and that is why I am pretty sure that there are no friends of hers here on the forum, nor does anyone here have her ear. Nobody here is out to get you.
Anger and frustration can make us lash out randomly so I can understand your posts, but I am still giving you the only advice I find reasonable. PM her politely and ask about your stories. Make your case. That is the only constructive thing you can do apart from leaving Literotica and finding some other website to publish your stories.
Best of luck.

Oh I'm sure she does read the forums time to time, she doesn't have a 20k post count for nothing. I've seen her exchange words with KeithD, I believe, with his sr71Pilot account, a few times. Usually in threads like these, where she just pops up out of nowhere. It's rare. The past few months I was kinda expecting to see the elephant in the room, with how some of these threads have went. There really is no communication and you just hope she sees whatever you did. She does. Unless you use the Contact Us, that doesn't work, as far as we know. You're really just yelling at clouds, contacting her, or whatever better analogy. Nobody sees the fucking wizard, I guess.

 

[ElectricBlue]

You're really just yelling at clouds, contacting her, or whatever better analogy. Nobody sees the fucking wizard, I guess.

I'll keep on saying it - yes, Laurel does reply to PMs where you're seeking assistance on ways to do something out of the ordinary. I've had several exchanges that resolved queries - in particular, how to set up collaborative stories so that both author accounts can be used.

And where a story went astray once - she found it, identified a glitch (that I'd made, which is why it got lost), referred it back for me to fix, and had it published within twelve hours.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

My gut feeling is to say "No" loudly and early, so the site doesn't get swamped by garbage.

My first impulse was to agree. But, thinking about it further, here's what bothers me about it:

Disregarding the question of whether or not OP's stories made use of AI, prior to being pulled in troves, basically all of their stories had a big, fat, red H next to the title. So... even IF they had been using AI, they could hardly be called garbage, and the readers seemed to have appreciated them. So... why was it necessary to pull them?

Then there's the question of WHY a bland-sounding story is worse than a grammatical mess. I mean, no offense to any of the authors here, but it's really not like Literotica is the go-to place for literary masterworks about original plots and ideas. Yes, there are a lot of really impressive works on this site, written by truly creative minds, but... it still feels like half the submissions on any given day are little more than two-page-long masturbation fantasies without even a proper plot.

Why is a business-like writing style (that Grammarly and Co. are trained for) worse than a lack in literacy?

 

[nice90sguy]

I think the issue is alluded to in Laurel's reply above. It's more about swamping the site. It's really easy to make story-publishing bots that would just fuck everything up here, and yes, with a very uniform type of story.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

My first impulse was to agree. But, thinking about it further, here's what bothers me about it:

Disregarding the question of whether or not OP's stories made use of AI, prior to being pulled in troves, basically all of their stories had a big, fat, red H next to the title. So... even IF they had been using AI, they could hardly be called garbage, and the readers seemed to have appreciated them. So... why was it necessary to pull them?

Then there's the question of WHY a bland-sounding story is worse than a grammatical mess. I mean, no offense to any of the authors here, but it's really not like Literotica is the go-to place for literary masterworks about original plots and ideas. Yes, there are a lot of really impressive works on this site, written by truly creative minds, but... it still feels like half the submissions on any given day are little more than two-page-long masturbation fantasies without even a proper plot.

Why is a business-like writing style (that Grammarly and Co. are trained for) worse than a lack in literacy?

I've never used an ai, so I can't really answer. If they're trained for business like styles as you put it, then they are not very functional for story writing. I can't picture reading a smut story written llike a college thesis would be enjoyable.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I'll keep on saying it - yes, Laurel does reply to PMs where you're seeking assistance on ways to do something out of the ordinary. I've had several exchanges that resolved queries - in particular, how to set up collaborative stories so that both author accounts can be used.

And where a story went astray once - she found it, identified a glitch (that I'd made, which is why it got lost), referred it back for me to fix, and had it published within twelve hours.

Yes, yes she will. I might've gotten a lil carried away there, or just didn't think completely. Either way I was wrong.

 

[onehitwanda]

So... why was it necessary to pull them?

Yeah, this is worrying.

 

[nice90sguy]

Right now the site can't trust you with your work, is the problem, not the other way round. It's up to you to either try and work to gain that trust, or (understandably) just say "fuck you" and post on another site.

 

[Rustyoznail]

The interesting thing is Laurel specifically noted Prowritingaid as an issue. I use it, and some of it's suggestions are... Terrible. If someone decided to use all the recommendations, then it would look like a partially AI generated story.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Thank you for pointing this out. The point is, my stories were pulled in troves with no explanation except for a form rejection. I did hear from Laurel via DM, and she was very kind and polite. I do think she was planning to look over my stories again, but as I'm leaving the site, I deleted them once they'd been rejected, again, without explanation. There was no way I was going to try to resubmit 31 stories that were pulled simultaneously.

And yes, that's my question as well: Why was it necessary to pull them? If she can go back over previously published , works and decide that those now read like AI, and then reject them en masse, then how can she be trusted not to do this again? In my reply to her, I did explain that the stories are no longer available because I deleted them after they were rejected all at once. I also asked for an explanation for that.

Honestly, I don't think our past experiences are really tge greatest of help and can only go so far. All of this is a new paradigm. At the very least, now we know she probably has a checker for it. We're trying, but this isn't as cut as dry as grammar, or under 18 characters rejections. At best, all there is, is speculation. I've never even heard of her pulling pretty much somebody's whole library for any reason. Well... other than me, when she pulled several of my submissions for an entirely different reason that doesn't apply here.

People tried to help, but I guess as far as you go, it's a moot point. There's other places you can publish, I'm on other sites myself. They'll say Lit doesn't have much competition- it does, just not a lot. Some of them just aren't direct competition, Like Wattpad or AO3. All these sites have their issues and eventually, if not already, this ai plague will effect them all, except the ones that don't mind it. I'd say Laurel is just doing what she can, despite the site being what it is, I wouldn't be quick to call her a tyrant. Either way; good luck in your ventures of getting your work out there... we all need that shit, especially being at risk of being victims of the ai fuckery.

 

[nice90sguy]

I bet if your stories read the way your posts do, you'd get them past lit's AI checker just fine.

 

[nice90sguy]

Funnily enough I just ran that story through https://copyleaks.com/ai-content-detector. It disagrees with you. But of course it is an AI, so I guess it's biased.

 

[alohadave]

This is literally the beginning of one of your stories:

"I have all the canine qualities, good and bad. I suppose if had to be specific as to breeds, I'd be a German Shepherd or a Border Collie..."

That is some of the worst shit I've ever read. And it definitely sounds like you used Chat GPT to write it.

You are just a nasty person all around.

And I want to know why my stories were immediately pulled after being reported, with a form rejection that stated they contained AI content.

You stated before that they were pulled for copyright, not AI. Get your story straight.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

That's the thing: when has she ever pulled anyone's entire library for any reason? (Well, she left 4 of mine up, so about 18%? Math isn't my strong suit.) This is unheard of. And it happened after I made a thread here yesterday morning trying to get more information about the AI allegations situation. I know correlation does not equal causation, but the timing felt very suspicious to me.

I've said in other threads that I'm sure this is a nightmare situation for her to navigate. And I'm sure she has to weed through a ton of submitted AI-generated garbage; unfortunately, that problem will only grow worse, I suspect. But I do feel that once a story is published here, and it's gained votes and favorites and comments, it should only be pulled in the most exceptional circumstances. I had 31 of mine pulled at once, with nothing but a form rejection. A story I submitted to the holidays contest was among those.

Yeah, that might be a coincidence. She isn't petty like that. I've seen her interactions in the forums and if she was, there are members that wouldn't be here now, or at least the account they gave her the business with. I don't think she's done this before. Even reported stories may not get pulled. This whole thing is weird and it really sucks you went through it. The only reason mine got pulled is I broke a rule and either it took her ten chapters to catch it, or it to get reported. I'm certain you're right, it will get worse. AI shit has already been prevailent as is, now it's really hitting. The art stuff is catching up and got to the point where Amazon is scrutinizing ai book covers, from what I read somewhere.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I get where she's coming from, and it is entirely possible I selected some of Pro-WritingAid's Generative suggestions by accident (it was so long ago I can't remember). I'm just glad they're back and there is a way for me to get the third part up.

Even though I probably should, I don't use any of that shit.