"AI" Rejection

[alohadave]

I can't stand tools suggesting alternative phrasings as I type. Because then I sit there thinking about do I want that change? Or do I want to keep what I had? Maybe I like it that way, but now that I've seen it suggested I almost don't want it, just because I don't want to change it because of the suggestion. Or I don't want it, but every time I scroll past that underline catches my eye and I have to check it and decide to ignore it again. So I end up arguing with my word processor and second guessing myself instead of thinking about what I want to write.

I only run Grammarly during editing and revision. I don't need to suggesting as I type since I'm trying to get it down at that point.

During revision I'll run it and take suggestions with a grain of salt.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

If she's routinely using a bot, then she's also checking to see whether they "read as Ai" for herself.

I really appreciate that you summarized your conversation with her, it's the closest thing to an explanation we've seen. So, after you explained things, did she post your story? (If you said what happened before, sorry, I'm having difficulty keeping responses straight).

I can't stand tools suggesting alternative phrasings as I type.

I just use MS Word, and I found even those tools so intrusive I turned all of it off. I write the whole thing, and manually trigger spell check afterward.

Maybe the key is to disagree with the suggestions?

 

[SoCalAshley]

Thank you very much for sharing this. So here's what I don't understand: I've written more than 30 stories for the site and had no issues getting them published until a few days ago. My writing style has not changed in any way whatsoever, so I have no idea why a story, which happens to be the third part in a series, is now suspected of being written with the help of AI. The style of writing, and the voice of the characters, have remained consistent. I also use no kind of grammar checker whatsoever; I never have. So how can I address the issue when I have absolutely no idea why it's being suddenly flagged? It made far more sense to me to guess that a detection bot is erroneously flagging it rather than that a moderator who has approved all prior work suspects what I'm submitting now of being AI-generated.

The same thing happened to me. Chapter 4 of my story was rejected, and that chapter was written using the same program as Chapters 1–3. This has gotten completely out of hand, and I see no way to remedy a situation that wrongly accuses writers of doing something that they are not doing.

 

[DaedalusX]

Update: I went ahead and canceled the five stories I previously submitted. Focusing only on Chapter One, I went back and really worked at it in order to try... okay, I have no idea how to make it "work." I did manage to lower it down to a fracking 6th-grade reading level, (which is more than a little creepy) so... perhaps that will be the magick sauce. No clue.

I then messaged a volunteer editor, so hopefully she will accept and take a look at it/read it. Possibly, an editor's seal of approval would be enough. Again, I have no clue, but I am diligently trying.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

But why now?

I think the logical answer to "why now?" is all the press that ChatGPT and it's ilk have been getting. Over the past couple of years, there have occasionally been threads started in the AH touting the progress of these large language models, and even two-ish years ago they basically pumped out gibberish after a few sentences. It's only been this year that they were capable of putting out multiple paragraphs that held together as a coherent train of thought.

So it's only been very recently that there was even the possibility of someone using "AI" to write something that reads like a story.
Add to that any number of news articles about kids using "AI" to write papers and copy writers getting laid off because LLGs can (supposedly) do that job faster and cheaper, and you have a recipe for the owner of a mom and pop erotica website to get paranoid about being overrun by stories pumped out without human input.

Clearly, something is going awry in Laurel's method of detection. And none of the above is any comfort to people who have erroneously had stories rejected.

I don't have a solution, but I think continuing to communicate with her, and post her responses is our only recourse, or way of figuring out how to avoid her triggers.
Hopefully she'll learn, too, and recalibrate what she's suspicious of.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I wish management would give us something on this rather than letting all these poor souls dangle over rejection hell.

I definitely understand why this has become a huge issue everywhere. My question was regarding the fact that in the past six months, I've had 30+ stories approved with no issues. Someone above stated that based on conversations they've had with Laurel, it doesn't appear that she's relying on an AI detection bot, at least not primarily. So my question is, why am I now having this issue when my writing style has not changed, and also while the first two parts of the series were published with no problem? I didn't decide to go all stream-of-consciousness or experimental for Pt. 03.

It would be bad enough if this happened to a standalone story, but now I'm worried the series finale will never get published. (Someone else here has had a series chapter rejected over and over and over again, despite their insistence to the mods that they used a grammar checker only to help with comma usage. How are we supposed to prove a negative, that we're NOT using AI?) Others who are in the middle of writing series are experiencing the exact same problem. Yes, something has definitely gone awry, and we're trying to come together in order to understand why we're getting erroneously rejected.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Thank you!!! I very much appreciate the fact that you can sympathize with this, though fortunately you haven't experienced it. Those who have understand that other writers of course don't have the solution, but it's been disheartening to be accused of being flagged because our accounts are too new, or we don't write well enough.

I've really enjoyed writing here for the past six months; it helped me through a very tough time earlier in the year. But now, I'm afraid to invest more time writing when my story might be rejected for reasons I can't possibly fathom. That being said, I do want the final part of my series published, because readers who are invested in the story deserve to know the conclusion.

I definitely sympathize with you, too. I've been lucky enough to not have run into this problem yet, but I can imagine how angry I'd be if my work was suddenly getting rejected. Sorry for taking your "why now" so narrowly.

I do hope that you can successfully post the rest of your story *and* that you get some kind of answer from Laurel.

 

[MillieDynamite]

There is one AI detector that seems to tag everything as AI. Don't remember the name of it. But if she's using the read-and-sniff test, where she reads it and sniffs out the AI, then not sure how you counter her smeller.

Thank you!!! I very much appreciate the fact that you can sympathize with this, though fortunately you haven't experienced it. Those who have understand that other writers of course don't have the solution, but it's been disheartening to be accused of being flagged because our accounts are too new, or we don't write well enough.

I've really enjoyed writing here for the past six months; it helped me through a very tough time earlier in the year. But now, I'm afraid to invest more time writing when my story might be rejected for reasons I can't possibly fathom. That being said, I do want the final part of my series published, because readers who are invested in the story deserve to know the conclusion.

 

[u1u1u1]

I really appreciate that you summarized your conversation with her, it's the closest thing to an explanation we've seen. So, after you explained things, did she post your story? (If you said what happened before, sorry, I'm having difficulty keeping responses straight).

I just use MS Word, and I found even those tools so intrusive I turned all of it off. I write the whole thing, and manually trigger spell check afterward.

Maybe the key is to disagree with the suggestions?

No, so far she hasn't posted my story. I have kicked it back to her one more time.

 

[u1u1u1]

Thank you very much for sharing this. So here's what I don't understand: I've written more than 30 stories for the site and had no issues getting them published until a few days ago. My writing style has not changed in any way whatsoever, so I have no idea why a story, which happens to be the third part in a series, is now suspected of being written with the help of AI. The style of writing, and the voice of the characters, have remained consistent. I also use no kind of grammar checker whatsoever; I never have. So how can I address the issue when I have absolutely no idea why it's being suddenly flagged? It made far more sense to me to guess that a detection bot is erroneously flagging it rather than that a moderator who has approved all prior work suspects what I'm submitting now of being AI-generated.

Heh, my story is also the third part in a series. I had some trouble with the second part but Laurel took my word for it when I said it was my own work. I ran Part 3 through three separate AI Checkers to see if they caught anything odd, which was time-consuming (could only be done 2,500 characters at a time) but did help a lot with my proof-reading and probably made the story better. I've redrafted twice now, including a very substantial edit where I cut out 2,000 words including an entire sex scene that was probably redundant. None of it has made a difference.

I think it basically comes down to, and I don't mean this insultingly, paranoia. Laurel doesn't want to be hit with a load of copyright takedown notices when OpenAI or Google or whoever notice that half of Literotica is written by their proprietary AIs. Now, I don't think any part of that's realistic, but it's a worst-case scenario that would be very difficult for Laurel, and I can understand why she would be going to great lengths to avoid it

 

[DaedalusX]

I think it basically comes down to, and I don't mean this insultingly, paranoia. Laurel doesn't want to be hit with a load of copyright takedown notices when OpenAI or Google or whoever notice that half of Literotica is written by their proprietary AIs. Now, I don't think any part of that's realistic, but it's a worst-case scenario that would be very difficult for Laurel, and I can understand why she would be going to great lengths to avoid it.

The following is in no way a defense of anyone using AI software for any form of artistic expression. The facts presented may not be shared by the management of WKRP.

The rumor or idea that AI-assisted work can not be copyrighted in the United States is demonstrably 100% false. Federal courts have already ruled on this matter. The US Copyright Office has already ruled on this. There are thousands of books, novels, etc... that are currently copyrighted by the authors and for sale. (If not tens of thousands). Photoshop has used AI technology for many years (how do you think 90% of the auto-filters work) such as background removal. Yes, removing the background in Photoshop is an AI tool. Nearly every digital camera in existence uses AI technology. Think they do not get their photos protected before publishing or selling to a magazine/newspaper?

U.S. District Judge Beryl Howell did recently rule in US Federal Court that 100% AI-created art can not be copyrighted, since human authorship is a "bedrock requirement of copyright" based on "centuries of settled understanding." This in no way, shape, or form equates to tools such as spell-checkers, grammar checkers, etc.

It does not even cover ChatGPT used to assist in writing a synopsis, outline, or even the story itself. Here is why: If you try to have an AI program write a story 100% on its own, it will be the most boring, trite, pile of words that has ever been written. It will be a shit story/book. Period. Therefore, even if that method was used, the author would then need to go in and clean it all up, line by line, word by word. I am extremely doubtful that anyone would do that.

Instead, what people may do is this - write a chapter or twenty, then have the AI look over it, or even potentially rewrite sentences, aid with character descriptions, and so forth. In other words, a tool to assist. Go read a 100% AI-written story and I guarantee that your mind will explode into little tiny pieces. It is sooooo bad.

Besides, three of the four stories I submitted were set in the Star Wars universe, so I would never be able to get a copyright on that anyway. Trust me from first-hand experience, Disney (or as I call them pedoDisney) will litigate the living hell out of you if you attempt to use any of their IP to make a profit. So, it really can't be a copyright issue.

TLDR - If someone is doing this whole AI detector thing-a-mabob over a copyright paranoia then that is 100% fucking ignorant and dangerously stupid.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I can't actually understand the problem if, as is claimed here, human writing is getting turned down for being AI. If that's the case, and I don't doubt it, maybe it isn't worth the hassle of trying to enforce a rule that isn't enforced anywhere else. She could have you tick a box and admit you used AI to help you write it like Amazon now does. But to turn down human endeavor willy-nilly, saying it's AI when there is really no good way to determine that, makes on sense. If the stories that are being sent back really are written by humans, how can you justify tossing them out?

While I haven't used AI and don't support writers using it, I don't know how you tell what's what. If Laurel is reading them and determining they aren't written by the writer, what are the criteria she uses?

I can absolutely understand her concern about this; it must be a complete nightmare to try to navigate. But after reading about your experience in trying to get the third part of your series published, I am seriously depressed. I write here because it's fun; as long as readers enjoy the story, I know I don't have to agonize over every single sentence. I just get into the flow and write. There is no way I'm going to spend time putting my stories through faulty AI checkers that don't even work, and as you've shown, that doesn't help in any case. I was trying to write today, and I found myself scrutinizing every sentence, wondering, "Is this sentence structure going to get me flagged if I end up submitting this? Does it not sound 'human' enough?" It drains the entire writing process of every ounce of joy.

And based on other experiences I've read about here, writers have (repeatedly) stated that they didn't use AI, and then they (repeatedly) get rejected. So it comes down to a matter of trust. Someone yesterday commented that this seems to be happening to new writers, and I can understand that writers who've been submitting here for many years might be deemed more trustworthy, as they're more familiar to the mods. So will it reach the point where only long-time writers are getting published? Because compared to many others here, yes, I'm very new, and all I have is my word that I didn't use AI. If my word isn't trusted, then I may as well give up.

 

[DaedalusX]

Yes, these are 100% real screenshots of tests run. All I know is that James Madison was a bad dude. Yes, that is a section of the US Constitution of the United States flagging as AI-generated. Shit, now I am getting pinged by SkyNet asking me my location... gotta run.

 

[DaedalusX]

Am I revealing that I'm old by admitting that I snorted upon reading WKRP?

Yes. Hahahaha.

 

[Euphony]

I'm the opposite because I have no idea what it means

It was a fictional radio station on a 70s sitcom.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Not one episode of WKRP was actually live-action, it was all AI-generated. You can tell by how smart the blonde was and how outrageously big her titties were.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yes, these are 100% real screenshots of tests run. All I know is that James Madison was a bad dude. Yes, that is a section of the US Constitution of the United States flagging as AI-generated. Shit, now I am getting pinged by SkyNet asking me my location... gotta run.

That's because the dumb machine learned that by rote when it was learning. Of course it "thinks" Grandpappy is AI, because that's its own beginning.

The cynics amongst us will say the original content is meaningless bullshit, too, but that's a whole other argument. @SimonDoom, you're needed in the watchouse, the natives are getting restless.

 

[XerXesXu]

That's because the dumb machine learned that by rote when it was learning. Of course it "thinks" Grandpappy is AI, because that's its own beginning.

Probably. If you scrape the internet, The Declaration of Independence and Shakespeare are going to be cited more than most other writings, and maybe the detector operationalises the frequency as a property of AI writing.

I've played around with AI Detector Tool, and it seems satisfied that I'm human, but it did red-flag one sentence in a sea of green in one sample of dialogue. 'I did not.'

I don't really know what to make of that. Just three words, and I would guess they're at least as likely to appear in human writing as in AI. But maybe that's the point, it occurs just frequently enough in scraped material to make the cut to be flagged as AI by the detector.

 

[MillieDynamite]

How does one put digital bandaids on digital nipples?

Pretty sure I read that they made her wear Band-Aids over her nipples so they wouldn't show through her shirt on television.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

Update: I went ahead and canceled the five stories I previously submitted. Focusing only on Chapter One, I went back and really worked at it in order to try... okay, I have no idea how to make it "work." I did manage to lower it down to a fracking 6th-grade reading level, (which is more than a little creepy) so... perhaps that will be the magick sauce. No clue.

I then messaged a volunteer editor, so hopefully she will accept and take a look at it/read it. Possibly, an editor's seal of approval would be enough. Again, I have no clue, but I am diligently trying.

Writing should have the goal of hitting a reading level between 6th grade and 8th grade. Just because you graduate high school or college, doesn't mean you want what you read for pleasure to be post graduate level. In fact, many people with high educations, don't want to concentrate on a story like it is a technical manual on brain surgery.

 

[DaedalusX]

Writing should have the goal of hitting a reading level between 6th grade and 8th grade.

I acknowledge and concur. However, it's disheartening to feel compelled to oversimplify matters. In recent times, there's been an excessive trend towards accommodating the most basic levels of comprehension, which is concerning.

***

My bad, I meant to say that I understand and agree. It just pains me to "dumb down" anything. There is far too much catering to the lowest common denominator in recent history. /s

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

And also, readers who follow you and enjoy your writing specifically because you wrote in your personal style might be disappointed at the sudden change in that style. I imagine that most of us write fairly consistently from story to story, and readers come to expect that consistency in our work.

I'm trying very hard to become a better writer without wander away from cuckold, cheating wives, or horror (which seems an odd assortment for a write, doesn't it?)

 

[SamBomb]

Clearly something changed in their process lately and it's very frustrating.

I wish we knew what it was, no way anyone could read my story and say it's AI, so they have some computer screening that is BS.

 

[JordanGlover]

I'm having a similar problem. My story has been rejected because of AI. I have not changed my writting style and other stories from the same series did not have an issue at all getting published. Hope there is better clarifiction then the canned response that appears everyone is getting.

 

[JordanGlover]

Thanks Warbler, I will check it out. Its so frustrating and making me get low energy on writting.