What's unique or different about your style?

[RainyDayPen]

At this point I am feeling like kink-specific stories do better shorter and much more focused on one kink.

Romantic stories in all categories I think do better longer.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

One thing I find funny is someone claiming that rating doesn't tell you anything. Literotica ratings are one of the few objective measures you'll find in the writing world. It tells you how much readers of that category enjoyed the story. "Oh, but it wasn't well-written." Lots of readers don't care if a story is well-written. Or more precisely, how much they enjoyed a story is not determined by how well-written it is. Bad-mouthing story ratings comes across as sour grapes to me.

I wish that ratings told us something meaningful about our work. They don't. All they tell us is popularity. Popularity has nothing to do with quality. You even admit this yourself.

Lots of readers don't care if a story is well-written. Or more precisely, how much they enjoyed a story is not determined by how well-written it is.

I'll go further. Not just lots - most readers don't. And I've never blamed the readers for that. My point is and always has been that most of the authors here think that a better score means better quality. As their scores get higher over the months they take it as a sign that their writing is better. Not necessarily at all. All it means is that their writing is getting more popular. Popularity has nothing to do with quality, or at least so scant little that we can't quantify it in the scores.

Even Simon admitted further up that if he wants a good story he goes somewhere else. He comes here to be titilated. The smut ratio has to be higher, otherwise he's bored. Well, if you up the smut, it's always at the expense of plot because you can't write both at the same time. That means less character development, less motive, less twists. He reviewed my story and the basic gist was, 'high quality, not erotic = score low'. Then he continues to argue adamantly that quality writing gets better scores. These are mutually exclusive statements - either that or he is stating that I am the only good writer here who isn't very good. Once the smut ratio gets over 40 or 50% it starts getting very difficult to maintain interesting nuanced plot.

Most high scoring stories aren't really stories, they're fantasies. They have no plot. They have cardboard characters. I've never said that there is anything wrong with that.

And when I assert this notion, usually some one attacks me for it. They tell me what an awful cunt I am and then check my story page and defiantly claim that since I have no Red Hs and they have a bunch, that proves that they are clearly a much better writer than I. Then I check their page and read one of their pieces, and it's a plotless fantasy with little description apart from measurements, no immersive setting whatsoever, and a unicorn woman who for no motive other than simple horniness let's some hapless gameless faceless guy get laid - a total litverse cookie cutter - and I know the truth about who really is better than who. I don't have to out anyone because it's not important and I'm not a cunt, but of course I myself I'm always fair game around here, so troll away if it pleases your ego. (although in fairness, no one has trolled me in this particular thread - yet).

Justin Bieber is staggeringly popular. Is he good? Of course not. Katy Perry? No. Cardi B? Fuck no! Can Keanu Reaves act? Hell no! Wynona Ryder? No! 50 Shades of Grey is the whipping boy of erotica on this forum. Sparkly vampires rolled the eyes of thousands - and sold millions. Popularity is not the least bit equated with quality. It's proven time and time again that the masses can't discern the finer points of art. Why should they? The masses can't be experts in everything, just like I can't fix a car, I'm useless at plumbing, hell I have trouble installing software and mowing my lawn. There's nothing wrong with me or the masses, but it's just foolish to ignore the truth. This is not being pedantic, it's being realistic. It;s being honest about my art with myself. It never pays to fool yourself. If you think that you're good because you got a 4.7, don't fool yourself. 4.7 does not mean that your work is good. 4.7 does not mean that your work is bad neither. All that 4.7 means is that your work is popular.

If the scores were any meaningful indication of quality then I would begin to care about them. Don't kid yourself.

Readers come here looking for something specific. If you give it to them and they find it in your story (and hopefully easily) they will score you well. If they don't find it in your story they will hit the back button or in rare instances score you poorly.

If someone is looking for bro/sis and you give them bro/sis, they will score you well. If you give them mom/son instead, maybe not. That's about it.

If someone is looking for anal and you give them a booty bent over lubing herself, he'll score you well.

If someone is looking for BBC and your IR story gives them a white guy and a Thai doll, you won't get a good score for it. They'll probably click away.

If someone is looking for an abusive Dom and you give them a caring Dom, they'll vote you down.

If someone comes here looking for story and plot and characters with nuance and depth and you give them that, they will score you well.

Which one of these examples is looked for the least? (hint: it's the last one)

 

[StillStunned]

4.7 does not mean that your work is good. 4.7 does not mean that your work is bad neither. All that 4.7 means is that your work is popular.

It doesn't even mean that. Take two of my stories. "The Countesses of Tannensdal" is rated 4.9. "Too Cold Not to Fuck" is 4.54.

Except "Countesses" was published three weeks ago and has 10 ratings from 1100 views. "Too Cold" has been up for 14 hours, and has 609 ratings from 24k views. Guess which is the long, "artsy" story that I spent a fortnight writing, and which is the 1500-word stroker that I tossed off before breakfast on Saturday?

 

[SimonDoom]

Even Simon admitted further up that if he wants a good story he goes somewhere else. He comes here to be titilated. The smut ratio has to be higher, otherwise he's bored. Well, if you up the smut, it's always at the expense of plot because you can't write both at the same time. That means less character development, less motive, less twists. He reviewed my story and the basic gist was, 'high quality, not erotic = score low'. Then he continues to argue adamantly that quality writing gets better scores. These are mutually exclusive statements - either that or he is stating that I am the only good writer here who isn't very good. Once the smut ratio gets over 40 or 50% it starts getting very difficult to maintain interesting nuanced plot.

Most high scoring stories aren't really stories, they're fantasies. They have no plot. They have cardboard characters. I've never said that there is anything wrong with that.

It's more subtle than this. You're not completely wrong, but you're not quite right, either.

Titillation and good story are not mutually exclusive, for me. I come to Literotica for erotic stories. I don't come here for non-erotic stories. That doesn't mean I don't care if they are good stories. I want them to be good erotic stories.

"Smut ratio" isn't what makes a story erotic, to me. The data do not support you, as I've indicated.

The data indicate that longer stories tend to have higher scores. That indicates that readers favor stories that have more than just nonstop sex. They like characters and buildup. This correlation is pretty strongly established.

My own personal observation, which I have no way of objectively conveying, is that you are wrong. I see a correlation between higher scores and better stories. It's not a perfect correlation, but it's a correlation.

All things being equal, people want both a good story and good eroticism. They are intertwined.

Your story, to me, just wasn't erotic. And I think it slipped through the cracks of what people are looking for here. Not that they don't want quality, but they just don't want quality if it doesn't also give them the sexy thrill they want. These are not exclusive things.

Stories that win contests tend to be longer, more complex, and with more intricate buildup and character. I just placed in the top three in the Halloween contest today. My story is over 16,000 words and is not a simple stroker. It placed in the top 3 out of 213, and contest stories are likely to be somewhat better than average.

I have said this and I believe, it, completely: pick 100 standalone stories at random with a score of 4.7 and 100 standalone stories at random with a score of 4.2, and the 4.7 stories will be better by conventional literary standards, not just smut factor. I'm absolutely certain, based on 20 years of reading, that I would conclude this. My guess is that most other discriminating readers would feel the same way, including you.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Titillation and good story are not mutually exclusive, for me. I come to Literotica for erotic stories. I don't come here for non-erotic stories. That doesn't mean I don't care if they are good stories. I want them to be good erotic stories.

I think the sticking point where we differ is that you believe that since you appreciate higher quality writing and that it makes a piece more enjoyable read, that somehow means that the masses also appreciate quality writing. They don't. People like you and me and several others here in the AH appreciate this, well ... because we're authors. But out there in the murky sea of the litverse, we are the small minority.

Again, this is not a pedantic view. It is just realistic. There is no shame in thousands of (usually men we all seem to agree, even though the lit data does not reflect gender in any way - so yes you can draw conclusions without proper data, we do it all the time) people with one hand on the mouse and another on their bits as they search for something to satisfy their kink.

The data indicate that longer stories tend to have higher scores. That indicates that readers favor stories that have more than just nonstop sex. They like characters and buildup. This correlation is pretty strongly established.

No, it is not. Length does not necessarily correlate to plot. Even less does length equate quality. Hardly. How many of these longer stories that score well have you actually measured the quality of, or even the smut ratio of?

For the masses tastes, if you give too much plot, they start scrolling. Talk to them. They tell you that they do.

My own personal observation, which I have no way of objectively conveying, is that you are wrong. I see a correlation between higher scores and better stories. It's not a perfect correlation, but it's a correlation.

Well, I've seen enough 4.8s that 'stink' to know that that is not true.

All things being equal, people want both a good story and good eroticism. They are intertwined.

Totally disagree. People like you and me want this. We are the minority. The masses want strokers.

I have said this and I believe, it, completely: pick 100 standalone stories at random with a score of 4.7 and 100 standalone stories at random with a score of 4.2, and the 4.7 stories will be better by conventional literary standards, not just smut factor. I'm absolutely certain, based on 20 years of reading, that I would conclude this. My guess is that most other discriminating readers would feel the same way, including you.

No, I can't disagree more. Like I said, I've read more than enough 4.6s and 4.8s that 'stink' and a enough 3s that were brilliant to know otherwise.

Other than N/N where plot and characters are actually in the brief (readers searching there are looking for story) and maybe a bit in SF/F where world building and setting (actual non-kinky elements) are fairly required for the brief, by and large the readers are looking for kinky smut and if your plot or your imagery gets in the way of that, making them scroll too much, they hit the back button.

 

[SimonDoom]

No, I can't disagree more. Like I said, I've read more than enough 4.6s and 4.8s that 'stink' and a enough 3s that were brilliant to know otherwise.

Other than N/N where plot and characters are actually in the brief (readers searching there are looking for story) and maybe a bit in SF/F where world building and setting (actual non-kinky elements) are fairly required for the brief, by and large the readers are looking for kinky smut and if your plot or your imagery gets in the way of that, making them scroll too much, they hit the back button.

We disagree, but I see no way to appeal to objective data for either of us to convince the other. I take you at your word that you see things differently.

 

[JohnSm123]

What is it about your style that sets you apart from others? The bit that makes your followers come back for more, and recognise you in each new story?

My style: I gave up before even finishing my first story, because I couldn't find names for my characters.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Call them Ted, Bill, Amanda and Sue. Call them Fred and Ethel and Ricky and Lucy. Call them feller and guy, girl and female. Names are names. The story is the thing.

Get back to writing and get 'er done!

My style: I gave up before even finishing my first story, because I couldn't find names for my characters.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

My style: I gave up before even finishing my first story, because I couldn't find names for my characters.

No, you stopped writing because someone criticized the names of your characters.

The hero of The Princess Bride was named Westley ffs! Srsly: Westley.

If you have a story to tell that you feel strongly about, write it. If someone criticizes it, big deal. Even Casablanca got a bad review or two. Grow a pair (balls or tits, your choice) and go write it. You won't regret it.

 

[djrip]

My style: I gave up before even finishing my first story, because I couldn't find names for my characters.

Could always follow the lead of a classic anime, Project A-ko. Also starring B-ko and C-ko.

 

[JohnSm123]

Could always follow the lead of a classic anime, Project A-ko. Also starring B-ko and C-ko.

Actually, many of my original name choices were from medieval animes. But ever since that beta reader told me the names were anachronistic (and some users on forums agreed with that person), I can't shake off the feeling my name choices are laughable.

 

[MillieDynamite]

D-ko got kicked out because she was such a gee-ko.

Could always follow the lead of a classic anime, Project A-ko. Also starring B-ko and C-ko.

 

[8letters]

I wish that ratings told us something meaningful about our work. They don't.

I think how enjoyable my stories are is very meaningful.

All they tell us is popularity.

No. Views = popularity, Rating = enjoyment. There are plenty of 5.00 rated stories out there with very few reads.

Popularity has nothing to do with quality. You even admit this yourself.

What is a quality story to you might be unreadable glop to me. This may sound crazy, but I don't think authors are a good judge of the quality of their own work.

:
Readers come here looking for something specific. If you give it to them and they find it in your story (and hopefully easily) they will score you well. If they don't find it in your story they will hit the back button or in rare instances score you poorly.

If someone is looking for bro/sis and you give them bro/sis, they will score you well. If you give them mom/son instead, maybe not. That's about it.

If someone is looking for anal and you give them a booty bent over lubing herself, he'll score you well.
:

I always roll my eyes at people who say it's easy to get a good rating in some category. If it's easy, why don't you write a highly-rated bro/sis or anal story?

 

[MillieDynamite]

I've told you before the names don't matter. The story matters. Just write, edit, publish.

Actually, many of my original name choices were from medieval animes. But ever since that beta reader told me the names were anachronistic (and some users on forums agreed with that person), I can't shake off the feeling my name choices are laughable.

 

[8letters]

Actually, many of my original name choices were from medieval animes. But ever since that beta reader told me the names were anachronistic (and some users on forums agreed with that person), I can't shake off the feeling my name choices are laughable.

I use the SSA baby names website. I figure out what year I want my character be born in and then start searching for names.
https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/

 

[MillieDynamite]

Obi-Wan Kenobi isn't a stellar name, nor is Luke Skywalker, or any other name in Star Wars. They're made up, gobbledegook names.

Actually, many of my original name choices were from medieval animes. But ever since that beta reader told me the names were anachronistic (and some users on forums agreed with that person), I can't shake off the feeling my name choices are laughable.

 

[JohnSm123]

I've told you before the names don't matter. The story matters. Just write, edit, publish.

If they didn't matter, that person wouldn't have brought it up.

 

[SimonDoom]

Obi-Wan Kenobi isn't a stellar name, nor is Luke Skywalker, or any other name in Star Wars. They're made up, gobbledegook names.

Absolutely. We take the names for granted now, and accept them as canonical, but can you imagine the early meetings between George Lucas and the money/production people, pitching the story, over beers, and one of them says, "'Obi-wan Kenobi'? George, what kind of fucking name is that?"

 

[JaxRhapsody]

My style: I gave up before even finishing my first story, because I couldn't find names for my characters.

Yeah, you're school on a sunday, aieght...

 

[Fatdog25]

Or you could just Google "medieval name generators", pick one, figure out how it works, and then go from there. I did this for my story "Devil Woman" for the Karaoke Challenge. Nobody has questioned my choices. Yet.

Names are names. If somebody doesn't like it, highlight the comment and make fun of them in the snarky comment thread.

I'm going to speak from experience here: Getting a negative comment will not kill you. My first one sucked. Every other one I've ever gotten has sucked. But I didn't die. Those with a valid point became lessons, the rest were read and forgotten.

As far as beta readers, they don't have the final say in your story. You do. Exercise it.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

What is a quality story to you might be unreadable glop to me. This may sound crazy, but I don't think authors are a good judge of the quality of their own work.

Oh, you're assuming that I'm talking about my own work. I have not been talking about my own work (other than Simon's review of my piece) not once have I mentioned my own scores or how I feel about them.

This is about the writers in general claiming and believing that since they get a high score, their story must be high quality. The truth is that your story might be high quality, it might not be. The only thing that the high score tell you is that it's popular.

Hits do not tell popularity. Hits tell visibility. If you're new, chances are regardless of quality of your work or how popular it might score, hits will be low because barely anyone will see it. Nobody knows you. The more people know an author and the bigger the following, the more visibility as reputation follows, you get more hits. Your first story might score 4.6 but with only 15 votes and 3k views. Then after 5 years, you develop a following and you old stories start getting hit more. The score doesn't move very far from 4.6 but the hits go way up to 50k, not because the story resonates more with the masses (the story hasn't changed a comma in 5 years) but that it took the masses 5 years to find it. It has become more visible through reputation and links of your other work.

We hear all of these things here in AH all the time.

"I'm so happy with the Red H. I'm more successful than I thought."

"I only scored 4.3. I guess it's not that good."

"My scores aren't getting any higher. I'm thinking about quitting."

Or the best: "My new story was 4.7 this morning and I was so excited and now it's down to 4.4. I lost my Red H! I thought I was good, now I'm bummed. I hope they sweep those bad votes out." This one is great because it's a dead giveaway for ego driven writing. It is assumed that any downvote can't possibly be legit and needs to be sweeped out, while at the same time any 5 vote is never question as fully merited. Obviously the writer's opinion of the work is high. They're just upset and pouting that the masses don't agree with them. It's a total ego sulk. As soon as they realize this and stop sulking, they'll be a better and more satisfied writer.

If a writer treats their work like a video game, do the task and collect the high score reward, then their writing is becoming an ego-driven addictive behavior, and if it continues in that direction, like any other addiction, eventually it will stop being satisfying and leave you empty.

If you truly love writing, write from your heart. Connecting with your audience will matter, absolutely, but sitting back waiting for their approval and affirmation so that you can have that chuffed feeling so you can say that it makes you good is a totally different thing. That's your ego stepping forward. Know the difference and you will be a happier better writer.

 

[alohadave]

Actually, many of my original name choices were from medieval animes. But ever since that beta reader told me the names were anachronistic (and some users on forums agreed with that person), I can't shake off the feeling my name choices are laughable.

It's an excuse for you to give up. You've been encouraged by many people and you continue to act like this beta reader has any kind of power (and they do because you stopped writing because of their comment).

The beta reader is not writing the story, you are. Fuck them and fuck their opinion.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If they didn't matter, that person wouldn't have brought it up.

Fuck them.

How badly do you want to write the story? Did you ask them to suggest names more appropriate? There are dozens of name lists online at your fingertips - for every nationality. Fuck, you can look up lists of Elven names or Klingon names ffs! Google, click, scroll, browse, indulge in decadent name shopping.

If someone else doesn't like your names, they can write their own story. This is your story. If you want to write it, go write the fucking thing. You literally will not regret it!

But if all you want is sympathy and attention, go away. The literary world doesn't have time to send the wa-a-a-ambulance for your butthurt feelings. There's too much stuff out there to read and too much stuff yet to be written. Multiple people have offered you tons of advice and encouragement and all you're doing is continue to whine while your ego basks in the attention when we keep wiping your tears. Here's some news for you: IT'S A DRAG!

We've tried to help you. You don't want the help. You want to cry. You don't want to write. You want everyone to coddle you and say "aww, poor baby."

If you want to write, you will write. Come back when you have something to share and it will get read here, guaranteed. If you want to pout, go pout. Somewhere away from me. I wiped your tears once, I offered a hand to help you up. I won't be fooled a third time. Tough love, my child.

 

[RainyDayPen]

@JohnSm123 hey there, I get you, writing is really tough sometimes. It makes me nervous to share a part of myself with all these strangers. It's a vulnerable thing to do. It's easy to spiral and think you're no good. It takes a lot of trial and error to find your voice and your style. Try writing something just for yourself or your romantic parter. Just mess around with some ideas and you'll hopefully figure it all out. Message me if you want someone to talk to about writing or anything.

 

[mirafrida]

One thing I find funny is someone claiming that rating doesn't tell you anything. Literotica ratings are one of the few objective measures you'll find in the writing world. It tells you how much readers of that category enjoyed the story. "Oh, but it wasn't well-written." Lots of readers don't care if a story is well-written. Or more precisely, how much they enjoyed a story is not determined by how well-written it is. Bad-mouthing story ratings comes across as sour grapes to me.

One place i think ratings really break down is in the implicit promise to help you find stuff you will like. In practice, I've found ratings to be of very little help in that regard, and i believe it steers readers wrong.

Theoretically, sure, you raise your odds of liking something by choosing the more popular. But I've become pretty skeptical that this is actually the case for most people on Literotica.

The simple rating just compresses out too much information. It boils the infinite variety in human tastes down into a lowest common denominator. And likewise, it mashes together so many different factors that can drive popularity (topic, kink, writing mechanics, artistry, edge, etc.), offering no way to separate them out again to match your personal preferences.

So, like, if most readers don't care if a story is well-written, but you do, well good luck making use of those ratings.

It's sort of like saying "size ten shoes are our most popular, so give this pair a try." I don't know, maybe most people really are 'size 10' in erotica consumption. But I'm less sure that's true than i used to be - and I'm definitely size 7 or 13.