AwkwardMD and Omenainen Review Thread

[StillStunned]

I'd be interested in a review of one of my stories, either the first instalment of The Rivals (https://literotica.com/s/the-rivals-ch-01-dark-encounters) or else my standalone story Fun with Fingers (https://literotica.com/s/fun-with-fingers).

 

[dara1833]

@AG31
Twelve Maxbridge Street

Before going into the story, I question your reason for asking for a review. You seem pretty self-assured with statements like “you just need to accept the premises which underlie my stories,” or “I’ll just ignore what you have to say if I don’t like it,” or “this is just my style and I purposefully don’t give characters backstories or personalities or feelings.” So, fair enough, you’ve set out to write insert tab A into slot B instruction manual-type erotica. How’s that working for you? If you’re so convinced it’s the way to go, why are you asking for a review? Following your muse and fulfilling your own artistic vision is absolutely the thing to do for personal satisfaction, but this kind of defiant “I’m doing what I’m doing so take it or leave it” approach doesn’t really sound like you’re open for suggestions, which is all we do.

Deleted most of that for brevity.

I got a lot out of that (the whole thing). And I'm not even the author.

 

[AG31]

@AG31
Twelve Maxbridge Street

Before going into the story, I question your reason for asking for a review.

I'm continually on the lookout for likeminded people, for whom my stories ring a bell. I have found a dozen or so over the years, and their fine tuning suggestions are like nuggets of gold. Hence my continual quest for reviews.

You are clearly not one of those people, but you did read my story with great attention, and for that I'm grateful.

You asked a lot of questions, which you may have intended to be rhetorical, but I can't resist an intelligent conversation, so I'm going to attempt to answer them.

you’ve set out to write insert tab A into slot B instruction manual-type erotica. How’s that working for you?

It's working well. Very satisfying, both to write it and to find like minded people.

If you’re so convinced it’s the way to go, why are you asking for a review?

See above.

What makes erotica erotic? I think erotica’s main point is to delve into the emotions and feelings of the characters.

That's one respected school of thought. Another is that sometimes (always?) erotica's main point is to elicit arousal on the part of the reader. It's what makes it different than literature or romance. I certainly don't expect my stories to elicit arousal in a lot of readers. But, yes, in like minded ones.

by the end of the story you’re so enamored with your main character that you spin out of thin air this whole relationship for him to have.

This isn't exactly a question, but I'm glad you brought it up. I'm aware that the ending of Maxbridge runs counter to everything I claim to be interested in. I'm still puzzled as why it popped up. It just did. I haven't done anything like it in any of my other stories. All my stories are recordings of fantasies, so I recorded it.

Does he now have someone to lovingly ass-rape him at home, so that he doesn’t need to go to get publicly ravaged by strangers anymore? Do they go to the club together? Is he now miraculously healed of these sinful urges by having a Good Woman on his side? What about her urges? Do they build their own dungeon at home? Is he a switch and can dominate her in turn, or is he purely a sub and she’s left unfulfilled with her submissive tendencies?

The answer is that Maxbridge isn't meant to answer such questions. It just draws a contrast between the BDSM venue and "real life."

You couldn’t figure out how to describe the emotions so you just gave up?

I never set out to describe the emotions. The Story of O wasn't particularly in my mind at the time, but it was clearly in my subconscious.

Why would these random office workers be into this kind of sexual thing?

To provide the occasion for humiliation.

As for you writing revision after revision, I encourage you to write something new instead.

Again, not really a question, but I'm glad for the opportunity to re-iterate that my stories are recordings of fantasies. I have no desire to sit down and try to "invent" a story. In that regard I'm not really an "author."

Thanks for the link to human resource, and thanks again for carefully reading my story and giving me a platform to explain what I'm about.

 

[AwkwardMD]

To provide the occasion for humiliation.

This is the answer the rhetorical question was assuming, and I want to underline here that story choices that are being made to serve the plot, rather than the characters, always stand out like a sore thumb.

From TV Tropes - 'The Idiot Ball':

A moment when a normally competent character suddenly becomes incompetent — knowingly or otherwise — which fuels an episode, a plot line, or any number of smaller threads.

Coined by Hank Azaria on Herman's Head: Azaria would ask the writing staff, "Who's carrying the idiot ball this week?" This is generally not a compliment. Frequently, the person carrying the idiot ball is acting Out of Character, misunderstanding something that could be cleared up by asking a single reasonable question, or not performing a simple action that would solve everything. It's almost as if the character holding the ball is being willfully stupid or obtuse (or impulsive) far beyond what has been established as "natural" for them. Frequently, it's only because the story (and by extension, the writers) need them to act this way, or else the chosen plot/conflict for the episode won't happen.

An author that does not understand their characters is going to be prone to this kind of self-serving choice. Readers notice these kinds of things. They may not have the TV Tropes link handy like I do, but they pick up on it when an author isn't doing the work.

As we've talked about in numerous reviews, our way of doing things isn't the only way to success. I would encourage you to look into one of the most successful authors on Lit in silkstockingslover, or the much newer-but-destined-to-be-popular danilonglegs. They engage their readers on a different level, and at least in SSL's case her readership is rabid and loyal.

Good luck with your future writing.

 

[AG31]

Alana Pt. 01
@dara1833

You have used the name “Alana”, which by itself tells us very little and is not very striking or interesting.

@seraph_nocturne

One does have to have a clear picture of one's audience. There's no erotica story that will appeal to all erotica readers. It so happens that a title like Alana does have a potential following. Omenainan and AwkwardMD don't agree with me that The Story of O is a classic, but tons of other people do, and it is an example of the signals a subtle title can send out.

I for one am drawn to such titles. If it were Stephen or Brad, I'd read it in a minute.

 

[dara1833]

@seraph_nocturne

One does have to have a clear picture of one's audience. There's no erotica story that will appeal to all erotica readers. It so happens that a title like Alana does have a potential following. Omenainan and AwkwardMD don't agree with me that The Story of O is a classic, but tons of other people do, and it is an example of the signals a subtle title can send out.

I for one am drawn to such titles. If it were Stephen or Brad, I'd read it in a minute.

As the writer of Alana I agree with you. I want to repeat that I have found the stuff here very helpful and they are very good about saying theirs is not the only way. But they do seem to emphasize what is popular (two writers recommended above are said to be very popular) and exciting (write sex scenes in short sentences). I write what I've experienced. I've screwed the same guy 2000 times and my experience of sex now often is he hikes up my nighty (I've given up undies) and does me in two minutes. Not very exciting but very real and I get off on it because I love him. The name Ulysses tells us nothing but I re-read the last 50 pages with no punctuation and find it masterful.

 

[AG31]

As the writer of Alana I agree with you. I want to repeat that I have found the stuff here very helpful and they are very good about saying theirs is not the only way. But they do seem to emphasize what is popular (two writers recommended above are said to be very popular) and exciting (write sex scenes in short sentences). I write what I've experienced. I've screwed the same guy 2000 times and my experience of sex now often is he hikes up my nighty (I've given up undies) and does me in two minutes. Not very exciting but very real and I get off on it because I love him. The name Ulysses tells us nothing but I re-read the last 50 pages with no punctuation and find it masterful.

It's good to hear your perspective. You might be interested in skimming my recent request for a review,
https://forum.literotica.com/thread...n-review-thread.1516126/page-34#post-97583947 ,

Omenainen's reply,
https://forum.literotica.com/thread...n-review-thread.1516126/page-34#post-97618040

and my reply to Omenainen,
https://forum.literotica.com/thread...n-review-thread.1516126/page-34#post-97619466

 

[AwkwardMD]

Please take this into private messages.

 

[AG31]

Please take this into private messages.

Why?

 

[AlinaX]

Please.

 

[AG31]

Please.

??????

 

[AwkwardMD]

Why?

Because I asked nicely.

 

[AG31]

Because I asked nicely.

Why did you ask?

 

[AwkwardMD]

Why did you ask?

Some people have this thread on watch, for learning purposes, which is something Omenainen and I built over time. You are triggering notifications for others for your own attention. Please stop.

 

[AG31]

Some people have this thread on watch, for learning purposes, which is something Omenainen and I built over time. You are triggering notifications for others for your own attention. Please stop.

OK. I get it. But I think it's very relevant information for people requesting reviews to undersand your biases.

 

[AwkwardMD]

OK. I get it. But I think it's very relevant information for people requesting reviews to undersand your biases.

There are 34 pages of posts, reviews, and feedback that establish our criteria. We are a known quantity.

 

[AG31]

One technical aspect: please use lubricant when inserting things into the anus.

I'm telling the truth when I say I don't mind negative observations. Usually they're helpful.

Even though you gave me a thoroughly negative review, I wanted you to know that all was not for nought. I've added lubricant to the story. Thanks!

 

[AwkwardMD]

Even though you gave me a thoroughly negative review, I wanted you to know that all was not for nought. I've added lubricant to the story. Thanks!

Okay

 

[dmallord]

Good Morning AwkwardMD,

Please consider looking at:

Mom Unlocks the Shyness Enigma
Sexologist Overcomes Jimmy's Shyness – Mom is His Reward.
09/30/2023 in Incest/Taboo Stories

HOT 42 Favorites 25.8k Views 4.57 / 653 Votes 22 Comments Approximately 10,680 MS Words

I see your analysis as very informative and would appreciate your candid take on this story. It has mixed comments that leave me puzzled. I'll put some of those below. The last two are puzzling to me and I'm not sure what all of that means.

I'm attempting to become a better writer without any particular background in literature or storytelling. My posts on Lit are the closest thing to writing I have ever attempted. I'd use commentary as a means of feedback, but that doesn't hold much promise as those are few and far between and seldom provide direction. This story's results have surprised me. In two days, it had more views and votes than most of my other writings have had in two years of posting on Lit. I recently had the help of a grammarian in editing a number of stories. He has helped my vocabulary and other errors dramatically.

Comments:

Anonymous 4 days ago

Didnt like it. It is 3 pages long and I stopped after a page and a half.


********** 5 days ago

It was well written, and certainly a bit "different" dmallord. However, forgive me if I say I don't think it merits an 'H' rating. Bravo anyway!

********** 4 days ago

That was fun! You built your story like a puzzle, revealing bits and pieces of what was going on as the story progressed, like when you yada yada yadaes the anal sex with mom, only to revisit it in his thoughts, explaining what went down. Or UP!

While this story doesn’t say Part One anywhere, I definitely think it needs a Part Two- ... Please consider it!

********** 4 days ago

Show, don't tell. It's the difference between "So we had sex" vs. describing the scene in detail. I like the concept though. Also, you need to make paragraph breaks more often. Reading large blocks of dense text on a computer screen/tablet/phone can be hard on the eyes.

Anonymous about 2 hours ago

A great idea for a story, but I’m afraid you’re not telling it very well. You use first person but the action is almost described outside of the character’s experience. There’s no descriptions of what an action feels like from the characters point of view. Also, the keyhole symbol is very closely tied to BDSM or master/slave dynamics, with a heavy undercurrent of misogyny - which is fine if that’s your thing, but that doesn’t fit with the characters you’re working with. It’s like you read about something online and inserted it into your story without understanding what any of it meant.

 

[AwkwardMD]

@StillStunned
Link

We both liked this one. The writing was solid. The characters were great (especially once they were in the same room). The plot was paced nicely, and compartmentalized in such a way that it let these two meet, have their moment, and move on with their lives (until chapter 2). It’s a really good setup and it really shines once they’re together, which bodes well for future installments!!

The humor worked, which is hard to do and really something you just can’t teach. You have it. Nurture that skill and it will serve you well. There were moments of emotional payoff, moral quandaries, and sexy bits! It’s really strong fantasy writing, and I was quite entertained the whole time. Well described, well paced, good execution.

The following are very minor suggestions, because the main section of the story is pretty darn good. If you just keep doing what you’re already doing, you’ll be successful.

***

I think that you don’t fully trust that readers will accept time moving forward, linearly, along with the story. It felt like you used the word ‘now’ a lot because you were worried the readers weren’t keeping up. Trust the reader to get there on their own. It’s a huge pet peeve of mine to use now in the narrative for a past tense story: grinds my gears to no end. There are, of course, exceptions, but these aren’t it. If you struck 95% of your uses of the words now, just, and that (outside of character dialog), I think you’d find that your sentences are sharper and your narrative is tighter. Give it a try with the next one and see what you think about it.

***

This being the first installment, I understand that you were wanting to paint a bigger picture for the world these two live in, but I could have done with a touch less world building. The world building was good, don’t get me wrong, but the best parts of this chapter happened when you got these two in the same room. That was where the chemistry was happening. I think you could have shuffled some of it around a little to happen later, or in later chapters, without losing any information or painting a less compelling world around them and in doing so put your characters a bit more front and center.

Your characters are great. Let them shine.

***

Now, I think that the hook in this story is the characters, so having so much backstory before we really get to them blunts that hook, but it’s entirely possible to craft your Chapter 1 Hook out of anything. Chapter 1 of any story will get read by however many people check that category hub on the few days it’s at the top, but it’s the Chapter 1 Hook that determines whether anyone will read on.

The more purposeful you get in your storycrafting, in your authorship, the more you’ll understand the importance of a hook. Agatha Christie got to be one of the most read authors in history by writing stories about dead bodies inside of locked rooms. JJ Abrams is famous for his blackbox storytelling system, and while I abhor his films and his TV series for their universally terrible endings and conclusions I can’t deny how compelling the beginnings are.

***

Not only were the characters great, but the dialog was great, and I think you’re ready for the next level of complexity. It’s one thing to have characters who are witty and snappy, who have flaws and gaps in their knowledge base, or who are experts in some things. It’s another to have them exist in a world where people make innocent mistakes.

In this story, as in most stories, the dialog reads as a perfect back and forth. I ask you a question, and you answer that to the best of your abilities whether or not you know the answer. Then I respond, and you respond, and now we have a conversation.


“I need to know the information.”
“I will tell you the information.”
“Thank you. That will be very useful.”
“Of course.”

Your dialog is already masking this very perfunctory back and forth with a lot of style and unique voice, and the next level is to let them get it wrong sometimes.

“Do you know what—”
“It’s eleven o’clock.”
“What?”
“The time.”
“That’s not what I was going to ask.”
“It’s not?”
“No! What’s for lunch!”
“Well you’re always asking about the time. I keep telling you to buy a watch but you don’t. How am I supposed to know when you have a legitimate question?”

Now, it’s really easy to get this kind of thing wrong and fill your story with empty fluff, conversations that go nowhere, but this kind of thing can also be used to great effect to show underlying characteristics. That character B is a know-it-all who always thinks they know best and jumps to conclusions. That character A is nervous. A lot of the time, with a mistake like this, the character doing the assuming is betraying some kind of projection. They’re filling in the thing they think is important, or the thing they think character A thinks is important.

Again; this is an advanced technique, but I think you’re easily ready to have this kind of trip-up happen and use it to your advantage. Use mistakes to push interpersonal relationships along. Used sparingly, at the right moment, you can create a lot of great conflict for your characters without requiring the plot to give them things to fight about all the time. The plot can just be the plot, we’re going after the macguffin, and along the way Characters A and B can fight about which is the best noodle, and which one the wench at that last inn was flirting with, and how loud character A chews.

All these things come out through dialog and conversation. As long as you know what you’re trying to do with it, and you have some end goal in mind, it’s okay to explore a little. Readers will give you the benefit of the doubt to follow you down a rabbit hole as long as the trip pays off.

 

[StillStunned]

I'm blushing. Thanks for taking the time to read my story and give such thoughtful - and useful! - feedback. I'll definitely take your suggestions on board.

In fact, in Chapter 4 of The Rivals I'd already included an instance of dialogue confusion, and it's one of my favourite exchanges of the series:

The front of his breeches was white with dust. She brushed some of it off. “What’s behind there?”

“There? That’s my– oh, you mean the door."

 

[AwkwardMD]

I'm blushing. Thanks for taking the time to read my story and give such thoughtful - and useful! - feedback. I'll definitely take your suggestions on board.

In fact, in Chapter 4 of The Rivals I'd already included an instance of dialogue confusion, and it's one of my favourite exchanges of the series:

See, I knew you were ready for this.

 

[yibala]

We both liked this one. The writing was solid. The characters were great (especially once they were in the same room). The plot was paced nicely, and compartmentalized in such a way that it let these two meet, have their moment, and move on with their lives (until chapter 2). It’s a really good setup and it really shines once they’re together, which bodes well for future installments!!

I enjoyed this story too. Sword and sorcery is my jam. I thought the setting and world-building was woven into the action really well. The dungeon delve was exquisitely described and gives a clear sense of history and place. I agree with AMD that this particular story didn't need all the cult history, but it was so interesting that it added to the story rather than detracted from it.

I love this kind of setup where I'm introduced to two characters and then they're thrown together to see what happens, and though it was satisfying, my only quibble was with Avilia's characterization. Especially as compared to Sligh, I didn't have a good grasp of what her motivation was. There were a lot of potential cues as to how she would act, but none of them bore fruit later on. Did she go into the towers (and venture in further after finding the gold disk) because she was in debt to some avaricious lord? Not that I know of. She's horny because it's been awhile and she missed her chance with the gaol guard. But was she horny enough or attracted enough to Sligh that it affected how she interacted with him? Apparently not. Is there something I knew about her that cued that she would decide to help Sligh once she knew he cared about his lizard? Not really.

Her accusation that Sligh was putting her at risk with the demon didn't seem quite honest - he did give her the gold disk before she went down, and he didn't seem to hesitate before joining her on the cavern bottom. So maybe that was a bit of disingenuousness on her part. I'm not sure if that was intentionally written or not. So, I don't know, thoughts for discussion? I just didn't feel like I fully understood why she did what she did, and since she's the primary POV, I feel like I should have. I think small details could have more sharply drawn her character, as chaotic as she is. For example, if I had seen that she was particularly affectionate with her roc, it would have paid off when she saved Sligh at the end because he loved his mount too.

Overall, fun read and I started the next one.

-Yib

 

[StillStunned]

Thanks for the thoughts. I agree, I think, with your comments on Avilia. Perhaps I was too intent on writing her as a self-reliant, carefree character that I didn't explain clearly enough what made her that way. She grows in later instalments, I think - her defining trait is that she acts without thought, but by the third story she's thinking, and by the fourth she's thinking ahead.

Both characters are great fun to write, particularly when they're together, but I'll definitely be more careful about giving Avilia a bit more depth. I suppose I'm not as good at writing strong female characters as I thought. Live and learn.

 

[yibala]

Thanks for the thoughts. I agree, I think, with your comments on Avilia. Perhaps I was too intent on writing her as a self-reliant, carefree character that I didn't explain clearly enough what made her that way. She grows in later instalments, I think - her defining trait is that she acts without thought, but by the third story she's thinking, and by the fourth she's thinking ahead.

Both characters are great fun to write, particularly when they're together, but I'll definitely be more careful about giving Avilia a bit more depth. I suppose I'm not as good at writing strong female characters as I thought. Live and learn.

If it helps, I didn't find her lacking in plausibility. I was more pointing out opportunities to cue the reader as to what drives her. I definitely like the contrast in character btw Avilia and Sligh, and the idea that she's going to do the unexpected. But I think you can surprise the reader in such a way that they look back in and realize, "of course, I can totally see why she did that!"... if that makes sense.