Titles that omit "Part 1"

[AlinaX]

There once was a poet whose rhyme
Was considered a poetical crime
Though its lines counted four
It begged for one more

 

[Voboy]

There once was a poet whose rhyme
Was considered a poetical crime
Though its lines counted four
It begged for one more

Stop it with your "ploys."

 

[SimonDoom]

There once was a poet whose rhyme
Was considered a poetical crime
Though its lines counted four
It begged for one more

But the last line was left to a mime.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Stop it with your "ploys."

It's trickery and deceit, is what it is.

 

[MillieDynamite]

The "issue" in this thread appears to be what you do with the very first chapter, and some bizarre notion that writers are maliciously "tricking" readers into reading something. Whereas 99% of the time it's more likely writers trying to figure it all out.

This may be the ISSUE of the thread, but it isn't an issue on the site. None of us are trying to deceive the readers about anything other than to make them believe we are better writers than we might be. Speaking only for myself, of course.

 

[Duleigh]

So what do you think: Is it a problem or just a personal peeve?

You didn't mention if the first installment is a complete story. Was there a satisfying climax? Was the plot resolved? I have done this several times but each time the story was complete, and the second story in that setting may or may not have a number 2 just to keep it in order. I have a series of stories that are kept in order by their names being in alphabetical order. I mostly do this because I never planned on writing a second or third installment, it's just a complete story that I enjoyed writing and wanted to keep writing about those characters in that setting.

Was the story incomplete? Was the story intentionally left hanging so follow-on chapters were needed? Yeah that's wrong but is it a problem? Does it effect your writing? You can always vote and leave a comment and hopefully the miscreant will change his/her way.

 

[TheArsonist]

You didn't mention if the first installment is a complete story.

Second sentence of the original post, mate:

(And I'm not talking about self-contained stories that are later extended, but stories where the first installment is clearly incomplete, "to be continued.")

Regarding whether some of these first chapters were ever intended as standalones…

I can't understand how you'd possibly be able to confidently make that statement unless you were the writer involved, but you do you.

Because it is often pretty obvious whether a story is complete or not. Much like how you would normally notice if a book is missing some pages. Of course, not every case is unambiguous (to take a specific example, here's one from a couple of days ago that I think is probably the intro to a series, but that could conceivably be a standalone as well), but if you take a look at a few "Chapter Ones" posted to the site, I think you will be forced to agree that even without the chapter number in the title, you would (in many cases) know by the end that the story was meant to be continued.

You're talking to some of them now, and most are telling you you're probably wrong. If you were just going to ignore opinions that don't conform to yours, then why post the thread?

Nobody posting here has apparently ever written and posted a story that fits the criteria, so why should they know more about the motives of those who do?

I'm perfectly willing to discuss the issues that arise from the situation, but yeah, I'm going to dismiss those claiming that the situation does not exist (especially given that a number of you don't seem to have a particularly firm grasp of what it is).

No, I don't. But if you see that as a valid reason to downvote, then you're right: that's fair enough.

All right, that's kind of the issue I wanted to discuss. I'm curious why you don't think spending time reading what you reasonably believe to be a self-contained short story, only to find after several pages that it is nothing of the sort, but the opening of some longer saga that is going to be a much greater reading commitment (and which may not be out yet), is disappointing and annoying to a reader.

The upshot is that unless writers come here, to the AH, or know that they can PM Laurel to clarify things? They're never going to know what the site allows them to do, no matter how many stories they post. And, as far as they're concerned, that's fine with them: they've written the story. It's done. They're on to the next story. The idea of backtracking and adding a numeral to a title just to satisfy TheArsonist is unlikely to occur to them, especially if they're unaware they can do so.

Well, I'm not really so concerned with renaming the first chapter once the second comes out, because I think by that time the damage is already done: my point is that it should have been titled "Ch. 1" from the start. (Or in some other way signaled that it was in fact the first installment of an upcoming/prospective series.)

Will you agree that if an author intends to write a series, or posts a story that they consider incomplete, they should indicate this up front in the first installment, either in the title or the intro, for the sake of readers?

 

[alohadave]

I don't understand the agony you seem to be experiencing regarding this.

Is losing some time reading an incomplete story really that distressing to you?

 

[TheArsonist]

I don't understand the agony you seem to be experiencing regarding this.

OP - It's too bad you feel this way: being angry for two days solid must be wearying.

I probably come across as more angry than I really am. Yeah, it bothers me, but it's more of a momentary irritation when it happens, and I only posted about it since it has happened quite a number of times, and my impression is that it's happening more and more.

There must be some flaw in my explanation of the issue, because I seem to have to repeat myself over and over to get across what I am actually talking about, with people repeatedly bringing up the same misunderstandings. For example, @stickygirl, you again give an example of what I am explicitly not talking about. I even quoted the specifying bit in the last post: "I'm not talking about self-contained stories that are later extended, but stories where the first installment is clearly incomplete, 'to be continued.' "

 

[AlinaX]

To me, it's self-defeating anyway. If I read a story and it ends prematurely with an invitation to continue to the next chapter, I'll probably be too irritated to do so.

Can't we just forget about this and go back to complaining about authors who have the same description for all chapters? That's what's really annoying.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I know, let's complain about authors doing it just the way they want to, from the goodness of their hearts.

You can't pick your readers, sometimes you just have to put up with them.

Popcorn, anyone?

 

[AlinaX]

Who do authors think they are anyway.

 

[Jmanchu]

I probably come across as more angry than I really am. Yeah, it bothers me, but it's more of a momentary irritation when it happens, and I only posted about it since it has happened quite a number of times, and my impression is that it's happening more and more.

There must be some flaw in my explanation of the issue, because I seem to have to repeat myself over and over to get across what I am actually talking about, with people repeatedly bringing up the same misunderstandings. For example, @stickygirl, you again give an example of what I am explicitly not talking about. I even quoted the specifying bit in the last post: "I'm not talking about self-contained stories that are later extended, but stories where the first installment is clearly incomplete, 'to be continued.' "

My thoughts on your posts here: As a writer, or someone trying to be one, is I generally write for myself first. I'm not thinking about, "what would be a good way to write this story for my readers?" "How can I make this story hook readers?" "Would I get more views if I did... this?" I'm just thinking about meat of the story as I write it, either enjoying the writing process as I do, or sometimes trudging along to get the damn thing done. And then formatting it and editing it once it's done to make sure it's readable to me. Then once it's presentable enough, publishing time.

We don't necessarily put a lot of time meticulously considering every little variable that could come up after publishing our story, since there are so many that could come up once it's ready to read. We just want to publish the written thing to get it over with. It's a learning process, and there will always something we can do better even after we've done it. I can't speak for everyone here, but I think most people who write here are like this in one way or the other.

And we know that readers have preferences and things they don't like, and that's perfectly fine. I'm the same way, even with professional fiction genres I like. There are some things that will annoy me or I find poor writing if I see it, some things annoying enough that I will absolutely drop the book and stop reading, but others won't mind.

A number of us do hear you on your thoughts that it might be good practice to point out somewhere in the start of a story (like a disclaimer) that it isn't going to be a complete part or just a teaser. Or to write it somewhere in description, or title that it's part of a larger story.

Even then, it's not necessarily something everyone is going to be thinking about when they write their stories. Like I said, it's a mostly self-learning process where we're all just trying to figure out what works best for our stories as we go along. There is no real universal guide for online stories or series that we can just consult. On that note, I need to say I have reservations about your comments here about writers doing what you find problematic with deceptive intentions or trying to pull a fast one on their readers. I highly doubt that most writers who do use teasers(and either forget or simply don't think to point out it's a teaser when they publish) actually do it for the reasons you hypothesized. You can't generalize what people are thinking for sure like they're being devious in some way if they do what you have a problem with. Just gonna point out that this might be the reason you are getting some pushback here from some of us.

I would say, protip would be to give constructive feedback to the stories you have a problem with so authors here can consider it for their future installments. Just try not to assume that they have some sort of sneaky intentions if you offer feedback. That doesn't help anyone.

 

[Voboy]

Nobody posting here has apparently ever written and posted a story that fits the criteria, so why should they know more about the motives of those who do?

I'm perfectly willing to discuss the issues that arise from the situation, but yeah, I'm going to dismiss those claiming that the situation does not exist (especially given that a number of you don't seem to have a particularly firm grasp of what it is).

I have. I already told you that.

All right, that's kind of the issue I wanted to discuss. I'm curious why you don't think spending time reading what you reasonably believe to be a self-contained short story, only to find after several pages that it is nothing of the sort, but the opening of some longer saga that is going to be a much greater reading commitment (and which may not be out yet), is disappointing and annoying to a reader.

Then go ahead and downvote it. That's your prerogative. Two of us have told you that. As for what I think? I've already told you that I'm operating on the assumption that most of these writers you're so unhappy about aren't meaning to mislead you. They don't feel bad about "disappointing" you because they honestly don't know that they are doing so. And how on earth would they?

Do you give these people feedback and ask them? Because I'm beginning to think that's what you ought to be doing.

...my point is that it should have been titled "Ch. 1" from the start. (Or in some other way signaled that it was in fact the first installment of an upcoming/prospective series.)

Will you agree that if an author intends to write a series, or posts a story that they consider incomplete, they should indicate this up front in the first installment, either in the title or the intro, for the sake of readers?

I've explained this to you twice now: many of us don't intend to write a series when we write a story that we later decide merits a sequel. I've done it twice myself. I don't know why you dismiss that.

I think most writers who intend to write a series DO label their first entry "Ch 1." I don't know why they wouldn't, if they've already got additional chapters waiting to post. So that's why I imagine many (if not most) writers who don't label a Chapter 1... do NOT intend to write a series. Again, I'm not sure why you have a hard time with that, and I'm not the only one.

We're going in circles here. My advice is twofold: reach out to the writers who offend you and explain yourself, or downvote the stories. You're clearly not getting any satisfaction here in this thread, and that's a pity. But I'm not sure how else to simplify this for you.

 

[Duleigh]

We need a thread jacking... Did anyone catch Dungeons & Dragons Honor Among Thieves?

 

[Voboy]

We need a thread jacking... Did anyone catch Dungeons & Dragons Honor Among Thieves?

Know what I had a problem with?

It's obviously going to spawn a sequel. So they should have called it Dungeons & Dragons I.

It annoys me.

 

[bumpercars]

I feel like there's a valid argument to be made about chapter breaks lining up with story arcs, whether they're big or small.

Someone was using Lord of the Rings as an example earlier. In Chapter 1 of Fellowship, Bilbo escapes his party and decides to leave the ring behind. There's more to the story, sure, but something changed for the characters and the world in that chapter.

If I write a chapter of a story that's just character introduction or setting introduction and nothing changes for the people or the world, then I'm probably starting the story too early. If I'm reading Arsonist's argument correctly, that's a big part of their frustration - a chapter in which nothing really happens isn't ideal in a large work, but it's rougher if you expected a standalone work.

I don't know how prevalent a pattern this is, but I've read published books that don't complete any major story arcs because they're saving it for the sequel, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's happening here too.

 

[alohadave]

We need a thread jacking... Did anyone catch Dungeons & Dragons Honor Among Thieves?

It was better than I thought it would be. Much better than the one from 20 years ago at least.

 

[Duleigh]

If I'm reading Arsonist's argument correctly, that's a big part of their frustration - a chapter in which nothing really happens isn't ideal in a large work

Actually exposition is a vital part of a story, it's Piece #1 of the entire framework.

Like D&D-HAT Chris Pine's whole plea in front of the parole board was exposition, and who told Michelle Rodriguez that covering her acreage with tattoos was appealing? Was it Vin "Groot is my best work" Diesel?

 

[bumpercars]

Duleigh,

I said that chapters where nothing happens are not good. Edgin's plea before the parole board is notable in that things happen in his recounting (a heist gone wrong) and things also happen in the moment (an escape gone right).

Exposition is necessary and good, but it can and should be balanced with the other needs of the story, and forward motion is one of those needs.

(Also, I agree with the thread that Honor Among Thieves was delightful.)

 

[Seadog777]

We need a thread jacking... Did anyone catch Dungeons & Dragons Honor Among Thieves?

They made a D&D movie???

I admit I'm LONG LONG LONG out of practice and haven't played it in 30 years, so did I miss something???

 

[bumpercars]

Seadog777,

They did, and it's quite good. I think it's still in the theater but they also started streaming it on Paramount plus.

D&D 5th edition is also decent, although there are a lot of other good RPGs out there these days too.

 

[djrip]

I have. I already told you that.



Then go ahead and downvote it. That's your prerogative. Two of us have told you that. As for what I think? I've already told you that I'm operating on the assumption that most of these writers you're so unhappy about aren't meaning to mislead you. They don't feel bad about "disappointing" you because they honestly don't know that they are doing so. And how on earth would they?

Do you give these people feedback and ask them? Because I'm beginning to think that's what you ought to be doing.



I've explained this to you twice now: many of us don't intend to write a series when we write a story that we later decide merits a sequel. I've done it twice myself. I don't know why you dismiss that.

I think most writers who intend to write a series DO label their first entry "Ch 1." I don't know why they wouldn't, if they've already got additional chapters waiting to post. So that's why I imagine many (if not most) writers who don't label a Chapter 1... do NOT intend to write a series. Again, I'm not sure why you have a hard time with that, and I'm not the only one.

We're going in circles here. My advice is twofold: reach out to the writers who offend you and explain yourself, or downvote the stories. You're clearly not getting any satisfaction here in this thread, and that's a pity. But I'm not sure how else to simplify this for you.

Ok now even I am getting annoyed with people misunderstanding the issue. You said you posted a story you didn't intend to be the first part of a series, and then continued it. Arson is talking about stories that end with "To Be Continued" or end in some way that is obviously incomplete or a teaser. Those are two different things. People are going in circles because they aren't paying attention to what's being said.

I agree with most here that this issue is not worth worrying about. But I could imagine that some authors are gaming the system in this way intentionally as Arson suspects. We all know that a standalone story gets better engagement than a ch. 1. SilkStockingLover said, in think in a how-to piece or an interview on here somewhere, that she avoids ch. # series, preferring to give each part of a series a unique name, making them alphabetical so they appear in order on her story page. Explicitly because she gets better engagement that way. Now that's not trickery because I think she generally puts info in the text of the story at the beginning about how it relates to other parts. But it is avoiding ch. # explicitly because that hurts engagement.

 

[Jmanchu]

Ok now even I am getting annoyed with people misunderstanding the issue. You said you posted a story you didn't intend to be the first part of a series, and then continued it. Arson is talking about stories that end with "To Be Continued" or end in some way that is obviously incomplete or a teaser. Those are two different things. People are going in circles because they aren't paying attention to what's being said.

I agree with most here that this issue is not worth worrying about. But I could imagine that some authors are gaming the system in this way intentionally as Arson suspects. We all know that a standalone story gets better engagement than a ch. 1. SilkStockingLover said, in think in a how-to piece or an interview on here somewhere, that she avoids ch. # series, preferring to give each part of a series a unique name, making them alphabetical so they appear in order on her story page. Explicitly because she gets better engagement that way. Now that's not trickery because I think she generally puts info in the text of the story at the beginning about how it relates to other parts. But it is avoiding ch. # explicitly because that hurts engagement.

Yeah, I think his main gripe is when people don't point it out in their stories in any way and that leaves him annoyed when it comes as a surprise.

It was better than I thought it would be. Much better than the one from 20 years ago at least.

I've seen that first one. It was terrible.

 

[mirafrida]

I agree with the OP, at least inasmuch as that this is a real issue and not just a made-up peeve. I like to read complete stories. I don't read serials. It has certainly happened to me that I'll start reading something with no "Part 1", thinking it's a complete story, and suddenly find that it ends in the middle. I don't downvote anything, as a rule, nor do I assume bad faith on the part of the author. But I do find it annoying and (whether intentionally or through ignorance) rude.