McCarthy’s Big Win Forces Biden & Dems to the Table

[JohnEngelman]

The Republicans want draconian cuts that would be a disaster for the economy, and the Democrats don't.

What you say is true. Defaulting on the national debt would be a greater disaster for the economy.

The least bad alternative for Biden would be to let the Republicans make the drastic cuts, explain that he is doing so under duress, and then say "I told you so" when the pain begins.

The Republican Party is united by race, but divided by class.
Usually this is not a serious problem because for most people most of the time loyalties of race, nation, and ethnicity are stronger than loyalties of class. However, this time the cuts demanded by Congressional Republicans will hurt the white working class people who vote Republican.

 

[JohnEngelman]

He would be a lot more popular if he stopped pretending there was any potential of compromise whatsoever, and took matters into his own hands. He does have that option, and reportedly is considering it.

I wish what you say is true, but I doubt it. If one feels something strongly, it is easy to over estimate the people who feel the same way. It is easy to underestimate the difficulty of converting others to one's persuasion.

Biden needs a comfortable margin in the polls to beat Trump because of Trump's advantage in the Electoral College. Right now he does not have one. If Trump survives his rape verdict I do not think Biden, who I voted for in 2020, and will again, can stop him.

 

[YDB95]

The least bad alternative for Biden would be to let the Republicans make the drastic cuts, explain that he is doing so under duress, and then say "I told you so" when the pain begins.

No, that's not the "least bad" alternative. He would look like a weakling who let the bullies win at everyone else's expense, and rightly so.
He only needs four Republican defectors in the House to support a more sensible bill, and he's actively trying to do that as we speak, campaigning in places like the Hudson Valley where the local representative is a relatively sane Republican. Give credit where it's due.

The Republican Party is united by race, but divided by class.
Usually this is not a serious problem because for most people most of the time loyalties of race, nation, and ethnicity are stronger than loyalties of class. However, this time the cuts demanded by Congressional Republicans will hurt the white working class people who vote Republican.

That's been the case since Reagan at least, but racism trumps all (pun intended) every time. No reason to think it'll be any different this time.

 

[JohnEngelman]

No, that's not the "least bad" alternative. He would look like a weakling who let the bullies win at everyone else's expense, and rightly so.
He only needs four Republican defectors in the House to support a more sensible bill, and he's actively trying to do that as we speak, campaigning in places like the Hudson Valley where the local representative is a relatively sane Republican. Give credit where it's due.

I hope you are right. A default on the debt and a second Trump presidency would be disasters. Trump is a dangerous, evil man. He has a large and fanatical constituency.

 

[Comshaw]

You're making a crucial error here: you're assuming the Republicans care about doing right by the country. They don't. If anything, they'd welcome "throwing the economy of the country into chaos" because it would improve their chances of beating Biden.

For that matter, you're also falling into the age old trap of "the truth is always somewhere in between". It usually is, but not always: sometimes one side is right and the other is wrong. The Republicans want draconian cuts that would be a disaster for the economy, and the Democrats don't.

If you'll be so kind as to read my post again you'll find I didn't make any "critical error". I didn't assume anything. I stated that they could have if they wanted to. And they could have. The Republicans could have had the bill already and passed by the end of January., But they sat on their thumbs and frittered away the next 3 1/2 months. That's on them and they could have done it but didn't want to.

As far as "the truth is always somewhere in the middle". In this instance, I neither said nor implied that. I agree the cuts the Republicans want should not happen. And I also know this is not the time to be negotiating such cuts. But what have the Democrats done other than to state they will not budge off their position of a clean debt ceiling raise?

What you fail to consider or understand is two things: the Democrats aren't just doing this to save those programs the Republicans want to do away with. They are also using this as a vote getter. And sometimes, when the stakes are high enough and the repercussions are heinous enough, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong. It only matters how much damage is done. Our ENTIRE political system is shit and has been for some time. The crazy ass Trumpers have taken the Republican party and because of that the Democrats refuse to listen to ANYTHING coming from that side.

So I didn't make an error and I didn't miss anything. I'm just not a blind follower of either side.

Comshaw

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

And here we are. May 10th. Clock ticking. A debt ceiling increase bill approved by the House of Representatives. Senate MIA.

 

[YDB95]

A debt ceiling increase bill approved by the House of Representatives.

For the sole purpose of throwing red meat to their base and fooling the likes of you.

 

[Comshaw]

And here we are. May 10th. Clock ticking. A debt ceiling increase bill approved by the House of Representatives. Senate MIA.

Which should have been passed in January IF the Republicans were doing their job as they should have. May 10th with no resolution in sight is on them.

Comshaw

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

For the sole purpose of throwing red meat to their base and fooling the likes of you.

Like it or not, a bill has passed the House.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Which should have been passed in January IF the Republicans were doing their job as they should have. May 10th with no resolution in sight is on them.

Comshaw

The House passed a bill that raises debt ceiling on April 26. The Senate has done nothing. They can’t even pass a “clean” bill that the president and senate majority leader are insisting on. They will eventually come to grips with reality and the standoff will end.

 

[Lazaran]

BabyBoobs doesn’t even know what day it is.

BabyBoobs



Also: And here we are. MAY 12th. Clock ticking. STILL no “big win” for Weaker mccarthy and the “republicans” from the DOA (Dead On Arrival / Default On America) bill.

BabyBoobs

 

[JohnEngelman]

The national debt only became a problem after 1980 when Congressional Republicans began to cut taxes for the rich.

I voted for Joe Biden, and I will in 2024. Nevertheless, I think he needs to compromise with the Republicans on this issue.

He would only be able to win on this issue if he won the 2020 election by a landslide, and if many Congressional Republicans knew that many who voted for them also voted for Biden.

If the United States defaults on the debt the results will probably be worse than what happened after the Stock Market Crash of 1929. Back then the United States was a creditor country. Now we are a debtor country. Back then the U.S. population was homogeneous. Now we are heterogeneous. Diversity is not a source of strength. It is the ultimate reason for the political polarization that has cost the Federal Government the credibility it had in 1964.

Finally, the United States had a Republican president in 1929, and a Republican Congress, so the Republicans were blamed for the Great Depression. Now we have a Democrat president and a Democrat House of Representatives, so the Democrats will be blamed for the collapse of the U.S. economy.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

Of course, unrestrained Congressional spending on social issues had nothing to do with it.

Just innocent victims, hapless bystanders...


:nods:

 

[VinnyVeritas]

... and of course, those cuts absolutely tanked the economy ushering in decades of abject depression...


Mainly the depression in those who wished to spend even more than they were taking in and when revenues actually went up, they did spend, spend, spend spend and left the debt to their grandchildren. Didn't bother them now one whit because their largess with play money garnered them many thank-you votes.

 

[Comshaw]

The House passed a bill that raises debt ceiling on April 26. The Senate has done nothing. They can’t even pass a “clean” bill that the president and senate majority leader are insisting on. They will eventually come to grips with reality and the standoff will end.

Again, they could have, should have had the bill done in January. They knew what they wanted. Instead, with a deadline hanging over the process they tarried for 3 months before passing it. You defend them for that, but expect the Senate to pass a bill in 17 days? Why the double standard? Shouldn't the Senate have as long to do it as the House? Personally, I think they should have been at the reconciliation stage months ago. But then I try to expect my government to operate efficiently. I guess politics and efficient aren't two words that go together.

Comshaw

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Now we have a Democrat president and a Democrat House of Representatives, so the Democrats will be blamed for the collapse of the U.S. economy.

Minor correction. We don’t have a Democrat House. Dems have a small majority in the Senate, GOP has a small majority in the House.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

And the State of Senility holds the keys to the White House.


:smug:

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Again, they could have, should have had the bill done in January. They knew what they wanted. Instead, with a deadline hanging over the process they tarried for 3 months before passing it. You defend them for that, but expect the Senate to pass a bill in 17 days? Why the double standard? Shouldn't the Senate have as long to do it as the House? Personally, I think they should have been at the reconciliation stage months ago. But then I try to expect my government to operate efficiently. I guess politics and efficient aren't two words that go together.

Comshaw

Coulda woulda shouda…bottom line is that since February, the President refused to meet with McCarthy until Janet Yellen made her recent surprise announcement. The House acted. Now there is a bill on the table. Democrats continue to insist they want a “clean” debt ceiling increase, yet the Democratic controlled Senate can’t even deliver on that.

 

[ll74]

Again, they could have, should have had the bill done in January. They knew what they wanted. Instead, with a deadline hanging over the process they tarried for 3 months before passing it. You defend them for that, but expect the Senate to pass a bill in 17 days? Why the double standard? Shouldn't the Senate have as long to do it as the House? Personally, I think they should have been at the reconciliation stage months ago. But then I try to expect my government to operate efficiently. I guess politics and efficient aren't two words that go together.

Comshaw

Republicans want a non specific and complete slashing of budget, which they know isn't going to happen. Democrats have already stated a clean debt ceiling increase is their goal. If the GOP will get more specific on cuts, negotiations can move forward.....I believe this has already happened behind closed sessions...but GOP wants to milk their media bullshit before actually showing their cards.publicly

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

They're set to vote on legislation this week.

Lol

 

[Lazaran]

Has BabyBoobs figured out what day it is yet???

It’s May 12th.

Hope that ^ helps.

BabyBoobs



Also: Another twist.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/janet-yellen-sued-nage-debt-limit/

And then there’s the 14th amendment.

BabyBoobs

 

[JohnEngelman]

Minor correction. We don’t have a Democrat House. Dems have a small majority in the Senate, GOP has a small majority in the House.

The Republicans retook the House in 2011, with the largest shift of power since the 1930s.[10] However, the Democrats retook the house in 2019, which became the largest shift of power to the Democrats since the 1970s. In the 2022 elections, Republicans took back control of the House, winning a slim majority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite...took the House,House, winning a slim majority.

What you say is true.

 

[Comshaw]

Coulda woulda shouda…bottom line is that since February, the President refused to meet with McCarthy until Janet Yellen made her recent surprise announcement. The House acted. Now there is a bill on the table. Democrats continue to insist they want a “clean” debt ceiling increase, yet the Democratic controlled Senate can’t even deliver on that.

Again, you want them to pass it in 17 days when the house took 3 months to do theirs? Even the seemingly united Democrats in the Senate have their outliers to deal with and do not have enough votes to override those fringe Democrats. 17 days just isn't enough time to do the same thing the House took 90+
to do.

So the Democrats are the only ones playing games? And why should the president trust McCarthy to negotiate in good faith? What happened the last time a Democratic president did that? The Republicans agreed to a settlement, then VOTED AGAINST it when it come up for a vote. Once bitten twice shy.

Comshaw

 

[icanhelp1]

The House passed a bill that raises debt ceiling on April 26. The Senate has done nothing. They can’t even pass a “clean” bill that the president and senate majority leader are insisting on. They will eventually come to grips with reality and the standoff will end.

What reductions are these trolls talking about. The bill reduces the increase in future spending. The bill sets discretionary spending at 1.47 trillion till Mar 31 2024 and allows it to increase only 1% thereafter. The decrease is that spending doesn't increase at the rate of inflation, that's on Biden!

1. repeal renewable tax credits
2. Blocks Biden's attempt at cancelling student loan debt
3. Reclaim covid funding
4. Rescind IRS additional funding for IRS agents
5. Initiate work requirements for SNAP

All common sense initiatives.

And the debt ceiling is raised.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

...
2. Blocks Biden's attempt at cancelling student loan debt
...

He can't do that. He has to bribe his voters. Instant Veto.