Categories that you have or always will avoid

[AlinaX]

Well, it's certainly true that non-con stories rarely explore the victim's traumatic response to being betrayed by their own body.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I'll write in pretty much any category if its a story I want to write. I don't really worry about experience or not, I just wing it. There's quite a few I haven't written in on Lit but it's more that I'm not particularly interested and I don't have any story ideas that would fit.

 

[SeraphNocturne]

Well, it's certainly true that non-con stories rarely explore the victim's traumatic response to being betrayed by their own body.

I'm not surprised by this. Because that sense of realism doesn't typically fall into the category of erotic.

 

[SeraphNocturne]

Many people here seem to have an extreme attitude about what non-con is.

Secretive voyeurism and forced feminization could also be considered non-con in the sense that they’re non-consensual, but then again, we have other categories for those kinks.

Then there’s also the proliferation of instances in other categories in which a character doesn’t ask for permission or give adequate time for the recipient to back out before trying a particular act, but the recipient is completely fine with it anyway.

Honestly when it comes to NC/R, there are ample grey areas to be found but the bottom line remains... I think most of us who do indulge are very well aware of the taboo surrounding it and any instances of it, be it inadvertent depiction in another category or otherwise. Separating fiction/fantasy from reality is a real saving grace in the category. At least that's how I look at it.
I'm quite accustom to kink-shaming when it comes to the topic at this point... even still, I don't try to push my point of view on anyone, I certainly wouldn't appreciate if someone did that to me. At the end of the day 'agreeing to disagree' seems the most graceful way to approach it.

 

[BarracudaSwordfish]

I always thought I would avoid I/T as I assumed it was parent/child or sis/bro based. I currently have cousin story on the go which I find quite hard to categorise as there are all sorts of other kinks and fetishes in there. I did a bit of digging on old threads and it seems it is destined to go in I/T anyway as it becomes a trump category for any family related tales.

So it looks like I'll be published in I/T soon. Maybe I'll put a disclaimer in there although the title 'My Perfect Cousin' does give the game away slightly!

Oh and sorry to mention the 'trump' word at the moment. Sounds like he is more a candidate for non-con...

 

[Djmac1031]

This thread has me thinking on things...

I suppose if I put my mind to it, I could write a Gay Male story.

I mean, is there really that much difference in pretending to know what goes on in a gay man's head anymore than I TRULY know what goes on in a woman's when she's having sex?

The rest is still pretty much Insert Tab A into Slot B.

And any romance / interactions would be more or less the same concepts, except perhaps having to deal with how "out" or not either of them are.

I've already dabbled in some lesbian stuff, although more accurately bisexual, since both women also enjoy men.

And I'm sure it reads pretty much like a straight guy fantasy of two women having sex lol.

I've written several Fantasy/Sci Fi/ Supernatural type scenarios, so I suppose Non Human isn't entirely out of reach for me. But again, I'd want a unique idea, or at least a unique spin on a classic trope.

I've never published in Romance, but I feel at least a few of my stories have romantic themes or elements.

My story Mya Watches posted in E/V but could easily have fit in just as well in Mature.

Toys & Masturbation? I'm sure I could write something there. Again I've explored both in other stories already.

Transgender/ Crossdressing - not even sure why they're interconnected. Two VERY different things. Neither I'd feel comfortable writing. Not because I have problems with either, but because there's no way I could even fake either experience.

Non English- sorry, ignorant American here, barely speak my own language properly sometimes .

Non Erotic? - never say never I suppose.

How To - probably not. Like I'm an expert on anything lol.

Letters & Transcripts: I already wrote a Letter format story but since it was incest themed it went there.

I'm sure I've missed something but...

 

[djrip]

A lot of my writing strays into non-con territory, and I often dip into the category when reading too. I back out of stories that give off rape-glorification vibes, but there is a lot of eroticism in being forced to endure what we would never dare in reality.

The issue is justifying an actual rape kink by adding some crap about the woman (and it’s always a woman) cumming, or saying thank you afterwards. That’s just bullshit.

If you want to play rape games, knock yourself out. I have done incest roleplay and I can tell the difference between that and real incest. But if you want to write a realistic rape (which is a violent act even if no hitting is involved) and then say the woman enjoyed it, you have a tenuous grip on reality.

Em

So, I feel like I've learned a lot about cuckolding and humiliation kink from NTH in the past few months. And, I've said this before, but I see a lot of similarity between those stories and nonconsent stories. Guys who want to fantasize about being humiliated and losing their wives to better men are looking for stories that treat that as real, to imagine it being real. But the vast majority do not want it to really be real. If they want it in their real life at all, they want to role play it.

And I think women who want to fantasize about being raped are probably similar - they want to read about a woman being raped, not one who is role playing it. They want to read about loss of control, being forced to do something. At least, I think so; Alina? And, as they are trying to get off, not study sociology, they probably often want to read about the victim being overwhelmed by pleasure, not feeling depressed and dealing with shitty cops who don't believe her. But they don't want to be raped for real; if they want that kink in real life at all they probably want to role play it at most.

So, it's not a tenuous grip on reality, it's a firm grip on fantasy.

I'm curious, Em, if you feel differently about noncon stories written by women than those written by men? My one attempt focused on the victim and was from her perspective. I feel like the point is to serve the women who have that kink, so I didn't focus on the perpetrator(s). It was also not realistic at all; I feel like realism is antithetical to eroticism in some contexts, especially incest and nonconsent.

 

[HopelessDreams]

If they are OK with it. Then that’s consent, albeit retrospectively.

In fiction it feels similar, but this is a dangerous attitude to apply to real life, because what if the recipient didn't want it and doesn't give the retrospective consent?

 

[Rob_Royale]

Letters & Transcripts: I already wrote a Letter format story but since it was incest themed it went there.

That was a good call. I did a short story that was a transcript of a found audio recording and put it in L&T. It hasn't been seen much sadly. I may talk to Laurel about moving it to mature.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I could never write Gay male, Transgender, or cross dressing.

As a straight CIS male, I don't know that I'd be able to capture those kinds of tales honestly.

Lol.

As a likewise straight CIS male, I've had several women and a couple of gay guys say I've written fellatio way better than they ever could.

For my transgender story I did the sensible thing and asked StickyGirl for advice, which was freely given (she then borrowed my trans character and wrote her own story around her, which is the best tribute I can think of).

And if an EB story doesn't at some point feature a fabulous dress, it's only because it's already been taken off. I blame my daughter, who did some modelling as a teenager, and was fully into Alexander McQueen.

Back on topic, I stay away from LW, Non-Con, Mind Control, Inter-Racial.

Last time I counted, I think I've written in more than half of the Lit categories.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'm curious, Em, if you feel differently about noncon stories written by women than those written by men?

If it’s a realistic depiction of an actual rape, with some crappy post hoc justification that she actually enjoyed it. Then I couldn’t care less the gender of the author. It’s bullshit and trying to pretend that you don’t get off on the idea of destroying another human being physically and emotionally.

If you want to write rape play, have fun with that and live with the delusion that you could actually cope with being raped, let alone enjoy it. But I won’t complain about your kink.

If you want to describe actual rape as stimulating for the woman being violated, then a) you are messed up about the reality of the act and b) you are denigrating the trauma suffered by a large number of women at the hands of men. I hope you enjoy that as much as you should.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

In fiction it feels similar, but this is a dangerous attitude to apply to real life, because what if the recipient didn't want it and doesn't give the retrospective consent?

I was taking about fiction. IRL, no woman is going to be raped and afterwards say “wow I really got off on that” that’s just rapist apologia.

Em

 

[Euphony]

I could never write Gay male, Transgender, or cross dressing.

As a straight CIS male, I don't know that I'd be able to capture those kinds of tales honestly.

Certainly if you don't feel it, you shouldn't write it (because it will likely show) but I disagree with any absolution with this premise.

I am generally okay with the researched exploration of experiences outside the author's direct sphere. Large swaths of fiction are exactly that and plenty of worthy art has sprung forth from an often frowned upon endeavor.

At some point we reach the crossroads lack of representation v. the quality of that representation. I believe in the power of earnest, researched art to inspire other creatives closer to the experience to share their own tales. (sometimes just seeing a thing can be done helps others do the things that are far too often not done/shared.)

In reading on less served audiences/topics/groups here I've seen plenty of attempts that dabble in inauthenticity but the readership is buoyed enough by the simple act of representation, an even inauthentic but earnest attempt has its transgressions "forgiven" and ends up a net postive.

I wish representation for ethnicities, genders (and fluidity), trans, poly, and all manner of fetishes had their respective categories (even they even are allotted a proper one) had Lit bursting at the seams.

But I don't believe this is so and, while it's easier not to be offended as an outsider to whatever group is a stories focus, I feel there is some value in simply having more of all of it in the public sphere to both meet any under served need and help the fruition of more "proper" authentic more.

I bristle at the exploitive but attempts to explore the commonality of our different experiences has me more likely to reach for my reading glasses than my pitchfork.

I struggle enough to find hats here that properly fit my head (and I have some of the most mainstream interest to satisfy) I can't imagine what it must be like if I didn't have the power of sheer volume helping me.

More quality art submissions and we can debate how authentic a thing is rather than defeat earnest attempts before they have any chance of seeing the light of day.

Writing is an incredibly self-defeating past time and less fuel for those particular fires makes sense to me.

 

[Djmac1031]

Certainly if you don't feel it, you shouldn't write it (because it will likely show) but I disagree with any absolution with this premise.

If you scroll a bit, you'll see that I changed my stance on this slightly, at least when it comes to gay male stories.

Because I do agree, it's just a matter of willpower, research and effort.

But I also agree we need to FEEL it to make it work, and not just write it to somehow prove we can.

My newest story has some BDSM elements in it; something I've never personally delved into, have zero experience with.

But I was inspired by a particular idea and, with much help from a friend far more familiar with the subject, set out to write a version that was as honest to my style and views as I could make it.

It's gotten a very nice reception so far, and I've yet to get the complaint "it's not REAL BDSM."

 

[Euphony]

It's not difficult at all to understand. Many people in general are quite horrified by this category, it falls into a very dark taboo whether fantasy/fictional or otherwise, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Personal preference is just that... what some find fascinating others wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Of all categories most people tend to avoid, I don't find it hard to understand the psychological aspect of many wanting to steer clear of NC/R all together.

Non-con is like other muddled categories where those in less mainstream classifications often must reside along side the fetishists.

It's a matter of "agreement of (role) play" where the two participants are operating off an agreed upon script but a ill-pairing can lead to unfulfilling experiences or down right scary interactions (it's a spectrum, the double edge sword of non-con being it's driver and it's deadly dagger.)

Interracial has similar agreed scripts issues where you have a large portion of the cat. wanting simple (lacking) representation of themselves and their sex lives and fetishists celebrating more the physical traits, old tropes about the naughtiness/impurity of the act, essentially in substitution of the person.

Such incongruence exists in even mundane day to day interactions and couplings so surely it has plenty of examples here.

It can be a bit of a tightrope walk finding someone who celebrates your inherent X quality but treats it as a wonderful enrichment to the whole of who you are.

Non-con is more of a car wreck b/c the nature of human beings to be drawn to violence/fear inducing disaster and its higher stakes when scripts are mismatched.

An author who writes well those conflicts and balancings I find to be particularly skilled, no matter the category.

 

[EmilyMiller]

It's gotten a very nice reception so far, and I've yet to get the complaint "it's not REAL BDSM."

Cause you wrote it beautifully. Then, as you say, you were interested and did some research.

Last time I said something like, I have male gay l friends, but… I got crucified.

My issue with writing male gay porn is a) No experience - sure I love cock sucking and anal sex, but I don’t assume that makes me au fait with the gay male experience and the emotions tied up in that - pretty sure both are qualitatively different for a girl; b) it doesn’t turn me on - back when I used to live and breathe porn, I tried some gay male stuff and it left me cold - maybe I picked poorly.

I did go through a pre-op female transsexual phase (and kinda, but not really, wrote a fantasy vaguely adjacent to that), but that felt (and looked) very different to gay male sex.

Again, depending on your definition, I’m gay too. Then the B in LGBTQ+ is always silent.

Em

 

[Euphony]

If you scroll a bit, you'll see that I changed my stance on this slightly, at least when it comes to gay male stories.

Because I do agree, it's just a matter of willpower, research and effort.

But I also agree we need to FEEL it to make it work, and not just write it to somehow prove we can.

My newest story has some BDSM elements in it; something I've never personally delved into, have zero experience with.

But I was inspired by a particular idea and, with much help from a friend far more familiar with the subject, set out to write a version that was as honest to my style and views as I could make it.

I hope you didn't feel any of it was personal.

I think in hypotheticals so I post in hypotheticals a ton but I do see how it's easy for some things I post to be read as accusatory (it IS the wild west internet after all)

People should mostly take me as food for thought and with a grain of salt.

It's gotten a very nice reception so far, and I've yet to get the complaint "it's not REAL BDSM."

Here's my thing, so what if they did?

I'm no BDSM savant but outside of what should be normal human interaction considerations (care & concern for the happiness, well-being, and safety of each other) why is your script "wrong" and the convention "right?"

It's sex between two (or more) people you have crafted and who tell their stories through you. Sure, some conventions exist in all categories but sex is so rarely one size fits all I can't imagine condemning another's play as "wrong" without significant explanation as to why I might think that, what category conventions it runs "afoul" off.

I am all about developing an internal compass when it comes to my own earnestness in representation and using it as my main measuring tool for appropriateness of existence.

So long as you're careful not to shrug off all outside counsel, contemplation, and feedback, you should walk the author's path you feel best suits what you are trying to accomplish thematically with the work.

We think too much about others who have put far less thought into what we are trying to do. I am as guilty of this as anyone.

We need to learn to better trust ourselves not to the exclusion of others but not to the inclusion of all of the loud minority who get off on their very narrow channel of understanding being heard and made the default to the exclusion of any challenging ideas falling outside their version of "the norm" (normal doesn't exist.)

 

[Djmac1031]

I hope you didn't feel any of it was personal.

Not at all.

Here's my thing, so what if they did?

You're right of course; in the end it's subjective.

My only point on that was my fear of it coming across as somehow false, some outsider looking in and trying to interpret a lifestyle he has no true familiarity with, hasn't happened.

At least not yet. The story is only two days old lol.

 

[SeraphNocturne]

Non-con is like other muddled categories where those in less mainstream classifications often must reside along side the fetishists.

It's a matter of "agreement of (role) play" where the two participants are operating off an agreed upon script but a ill-pairing can lead to unfulfilling experiences or down right scary interactions (it's a spectrum, the double edge sword of non-con being it's driver and it's deadly dagger.)

Interracial has similar agreed scripts issues where you have a large portion of the cat. wanting simple (lacking) representation of themselves and their sex lives and fetishists celebrating more the physical traits, old tropes about the naughtiness/impurity of the act, essentially in substitution of the person.

Such incongruence exists in even mundane day to day interactions and couplings so surely it has plenty of examples here.

It can be a bit of a tightrope walk finding someone who celebrates your inherent X quality but treats it as a wonderful enrichment to the whole of who you are.

Non-con is more of a car wreck b/c the nature of human beings to be drawn to violence/fear inducing disaster and its higher stakes when scripts are mismatched.

An author who writes well those conflicts and balancings I find to be particularly skilled, no matter the category.

I agree with this.

When you have writers like George R. R. Martin making an absolute killing in the dark and gritty realm glorifying murder, infanticide, non-consensual elements and underaged brides it really lifts the eyebrows—the masses have devoured the content in written form and they really tested the limits on screen, but it’s fine, because it’s medieval fantasy. It isn’t real.

So I suppose it’s entirely subjective.

 

[Duleigh]

My list is not comprehensive (e.g. Reviews & Essays is absent as are others).

What about you?

Em

There are a few categories that I don't touch because I just don't feel moved in that direction
- Gay Male
- Transgender and Cross Dressing
- Chain stories
- How too (I did way too much of that in my tech days)
- Loving Wives
- Audio (Silent movies were designed with my speaking voice in mind)

Some I haven't touched but want to
- Non Human
- Non Erotic
- Mind Control

Some I will never touch again
- Non Consent/Reluctance (Tried it twice, never worked out)
- Interracial Sex (got really low scores for an interracial couple I wrote over 400,000 words on with a 4.9 score in Novel/Novella)

Some I have mixed feelings about
- Celebrity & Fan Fic - I love Fan Fic, I HATE Celebrity. That's why my Fan Fic ends up in SciFi with a disclaimer at the front
- Erotic Horror - I tried it, got good marks, but I lost so much sleep over it
- Group Sex - Tried it, too much work keeping the characters organized (it's easier in real life).
- Letters & Transcripts - I only tried it once, damn it was tough... but why? Ratings wasteland

I particularly like:
- Novels and Novellas - you can write anything you want and you don't lose sleep trying to determine what category to put it in
- Romance - I'm loveable
- Erotic Couplings - It's like N&N for standalone stories
- Sci-Fi and Fantasy - that's were I got my start
- Reviews and Essays - I don't enable voting on these, why? Because for me there's no creativity, I'm writing about something that exists.

 

[MelissaBaby]

BTW, were would a prostitution story go on Lit?

Every time the subject of categories come up, I suggest that there should be a Sex Work category.

 

[Djmac1031]

Every time the subject of categories come up, I suggest that there should be a Sex Work category.

I put my story The Deal With Lara, about an older gentleman who meets and winds up creating omline content with a young sex worker in Erotic Couplings because basically it was the only category for it really.

It did well. But yeah, a specific Sex Worker category would be a nice place to put those more specific type stories.

 

[Duleigh]

I put my story The Deal With Lara, about an older gentleman who meets and winds up creating omline content with a young sex worker in Erotic Couplings because basically it was the only category for it really.

It did well. But yeah, a specific Sex Worker category would be a nice place to put those more specific type stories.

I like the idea but I can only imagine the new breed of trolls.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I have the stated goal of wanting to write a story in every category (except illustrated, audio and non-English). I'm probably not going to have too much difficulty getting there. I am finding some categories more difficult to write for than others, but it's amazing how, in a category that you'd previously struggled with, you suddenly get hit by inspiration. For example:

Non-human - I thought this was going to be the most difficult one of all because mostly I have no interest the whole sparkly vampire, rugged werewolf, impossibly graceful elf type stories. Just give me a good old fashioned sexy human. I was finally hit with inspiration for a story about sex with an alien being really really alien and came up with something where the NonHuman tag was completely justified. I also have one in the works about transforming into faries, where the draw isn't so much being a sexy fairy with sexy wings, so much as it is about playing with scale - e.g. making love in a bed which is the size of a football pitch.

Loving Wives - this shouldn't be a problem to write for. I am married after all. And while I'm pretty confident my wife hasn't cheated (yeah, I know, we all say that until...) I can see the emotional importance of the topic. But the BTB style of story seems fairly miserable (yes, again, I know, cathartic) and the RAAC Cuck stories just seem like they don't have an emotional climax to me - there's the theory of writing that says that all stories are about the MC's unfulfilled need - LW stories are about the MC's wife's unfulfilled need and while the typical LW story end with her being fulfilled many stories struggle (IMHO) to twist this into some kind of resolution from him - yes I know there's a lot more you can do in this genre but it doesn't come easily. That said, I'm actually writing one at the moment and my salvation was stumbling on a historical story that I read and went 'That's a LW story right there!' We'll see how it turns out.

Non-Consent - another one I have a partially completed draft for. I decided the other day just get something quick written in this category sticking to the well-worn tropes. I managed to get as far as:

1) heroine is sexually frustrated with husband
2) heroine is fantasizing about a hot guy
3) heroine is alone with guy,
4) guy says 'you and me babe, how about it?'
5) heroine thing to herself 'am I going to?'
6) guy makes moves
7) heroine says 'that's good, but I really shouldn't',

Upto this point everythings nice and steamy. Then we have.

8) guy crosses the line
9) heroine says 'actually, no I'm out'
10) guy says 'no your not'
11) heroine runs
12) guy overpowers heroine.

This part is exciting as a piece of writing, but then I stopped because, as a man writing, the next part is a real minefield to navigate. Every further sentence I write, I'm thinking about 'what does this sentence say about me' and 'what does my heroines next action say about my attitude to women'. I could of course bin it and goes down the old 'woman forces man' route, but I'm not absolutely convinced that's going to lead to a raft of other problems.

 

[Djmac1031]

This part is exciting as a piece of writing, but then I stopped because, as a man writing, the next part is a real minefield to navigate. Every further sentence I write, I'm thinking about 'what does this sentence say about me' and 'what does my heroines next action say about my attitude to women'. I could of course bin it and goes down the old 'woman forces man' route, but I'm not absolutely convinced that's going to lead to a raft of other problems.

These are exactly the reasons why I personally won't write Non Con again.

I wrote something I didn't think at the time was NC but at the end realized that's exactly what I wrote.

I wound up tacking on a completely different ending that turned it into Role-play instead.

But yeah, it's a wormhole I no longer feel comfortable exploring.