McCarthy’s Big Win Forces Biden & Dems to the Table

[adrina]

Compromise for what? Not honoring our debts? Pffft.

 

[ll74]

2033 the estimated debt will be 51.2 trillion, the interest will = the military budget. Both parties need to get their heads out of their asses and save our children’s future.

And the debt will still need to be paid.

Budget negotiations are when you negotiate budgets.

This is when they pay the bills.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

2033 the estimated debt will be 51.2 trillion, the interest will = the military budget. Both parties need to get their heads out of their asses and save our children’s future.

1. Barack Obama
   $9.3 trillion over 8 years
   ($1.1 trillion per year)
2. Donald Trump
   $7.8 trillion over 4 years
   ($1.9 trillion per year)
3. Joe Biden
   $3.7 trillion over 2 years, 3 months
   ($1.6 trillion per year)
4. George W. Bush
   $4.9 trillion over 8 years
   ($0.6 trillion per year)

So when you look at the list, Obama leads, but then again he had to spend his way out of Bush's banking collapse. One that Bush could have avoided.

Biden using the current trajectory ( high interest rates double or triple of his predecessors) , could exceed both Obama and Trump, but lets not forget Trump set the trajectory, then COVID hit, making the fuck up Trump started worse.

80% of the US debt was created by these four, and it will keep growing, add in climate change, and you guys are fucked....

 

[Veroe]

It's a win for McCarthy because he had to navigate a minefield to even get the votes in his own caucus to pass it, Many Republicans said this was the bare minimum they'd agree to which doesn't really bode well for negotiating with the Dems or the whitehouse when you're already standing on your own redline.

Also this pretty much is a messaging bill since there's no way it's going to pass the senate.

It does change things that Biden would be negotiating with McCarthy rather than McConnell on this.

 

[ll74]

It's a win for McCarthy because he had to navigate a minefield to even get the votes in his own caucus to pass it, Many Republicans said this was the bare minimum they'd agree to which doesn't really bode well for negotiating with the Dems or the whitehouse when you're already standing on your own redline.

Also this pretty much is a messaging bill since there's no way it's going to pass the senate.

It does change things that Biden would be negotiating with McCarthy rather than McConnell on this.

McCarthy didn't negotiate anything. The bill is what he was told to do.

The GOP was united because they knew it wouldn't pass and would actually be something they could tell their constituents about.

When the rubber meets the road, that one vote to.eliminate the speaker will rear it's ugly head.

 

[icanhelp1]

Calling a 22% cut to VA health care as a "victory" is a weird flex.

IMHO, our own brain-damaged veteran war hero BotanyBoy will likely need MOAR VA health care in the years ahead, not less.

I don’t believe for one minute that BotBoy relies on the VA.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I don’t believe for one minute that BotBoy relies on the VA.

Yes you're pretty gullible.

 

[YDB95]

There will not be any cuts to veteran benefits.

Then it won't be this bill that ends up getting signed.

 

[Chobham]

Which one pays the bills?

And which one created a debt ceiling?

Congress pays the bills AND sets the debt ceiling.

 

[ll74]

Congress pays the bills AND sets the debt ceiling.

So close, yet somehow missed the mark.

Wonder why

Maybe answer the second question and I'll add one - what is the debt ceiling (amount) based on?

I'll even go further - what happens to the dollar if the US defaults? The economy? The global economy? The global currency?

And finally, what happens to all of the above if the debt ceiling is raised and the bills are paid?

It's so odd that one party is always the one who uses the debt ceiling to attach conditions.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...never-really-held-the-debt-limit-hostage.html

Ok, not really odd.

 

[Chobham]

So close, yet somehow missed the mark.

Wonder why

Maybe answer the second question and I'll add one - what is the debt ceiling (amount) based on?

I'll even go further - what happens to the dollar if the US defaults? The economy? The global economy? The global currency?

And finally, what happens to all of the above if the debt ceiling is raised and the bills are paid?

It's so odd that one party is always the one who uses the debt ceiling to attach conditions.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...never-really-held-the-debt-limit-hostage.html

Ok, not really odd.

Read the Constitution.

He who collects the money (makes tax law) and he who writes the checks (spending authorization) makes the rules. Period. Full stop.

Now, other interested parties can come forth, make their case and negotiate. That's how it works. But if a bill raising the debt limit, regardless of what other conditions are contained therein, lands on the presidents desk and he decides to throw a tantrum and veto it, it is HE that is putting the "full faith and credit of the United States" at risk, not congress.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Then it won't be this bill that ends up getting signed.

No, of course not. But instead of a “clean” debt ceiling increase with no strings attached that Democrats have been calling for, the Democratic-controlled Senate will now have to choose between negotiating with the GOP-controlled House or creating a shit show. McCarthy accomplished what many people thought he couldn’t. It came down to the wire and in the end, he unified his fragmented and razor thin majority to produce a bill that ties the debt ceiling to reasonable, modest spending controls.

 

[Lazaran]

Biden will cross his line in the sand (ie “clean debt ceiling increase) and negotiate with Republicans on compromise legislation. There will not be any cuts to veteran benefits.

Quoted for posterity and stupidity.

Going on BabyBoobs past record of being WRONG about EVERYTHING, I have zero doubts that BabyBoobs is WRONG this time as well.

I’m so confident that I’ll make BabyBoobs a bet:

If a clean debt ceiling increase doesn’t pass (not attached to the budget) and President Biden caves to “republican” terroristic negotiation tactics by including the debt ceiling increase in the budget, then I will never post here again ( this is the only account I have ever had here and ever will have) AND I will vote for whoever the “republican” nominee is in 2024.

If that ^ doesn’t happen, then BabyBoobs has to stop posting here forever AND vote for the Democratic nominee in 2024.

Will BabyBoobs accept the terms of my bet???

BabyBoobs

 

[adrina]

Quoted for posterity and stupidity.

Going on BabyBoobs past record of being WRONG about EVERYTHING, I have zero doubts that BabyBoobs is WRONG this time as well.

I’m so confident that I’ll make BabyBoobs a bet:

If a clean debt ceiling increase doesn’t pass (not attached to the budget) and President Biden caves to “republican” terroristic negotiator tactics by including the debt ceiling increase in the budget, then I will never post here again ( this is the only account I have ever had here and ever will have) AND I will vote for whoever the “republican” nominee is in 2024.

If that ^ doesn’t happen, then BabyBoobs has to stop posting here forever AND vote for the Democratic nominee in 2024.

Will BabyBoobs accept the terms of my bet???

BabyBoobs

Nah he'll just lie and create another alt.

 

[ll74]

Read the Constitution.

He who collects the money (makes tax law) and he who writes the checks (spending authorization) makes the rules. Period. Full stop.

Now, other interested parties can come forth, make their case and negotiate. That's how it works. But if a bill raising the debt limit, regardless of what other conditions are contained therein, lands on the presidents desk and he decides to throw a tantrum and veto it, it is HE that is putting the "full faith and credit of the United States" at risk, not congress.

Answer the question - who created the debt ceiling?

The bill they passed puts conditions on raising the debt ceiling...conditions which McCarthy knows are DOA.

You're not arguing in good faith here....you know Congress stalled by not actually giving the white house a budget or any conditions for negotiation while the President clearly spelled out his starting point. This whole thing is performative by the House because that's all they know how to do....play games.

 

[ll74]

Read the Constitution.

He who collects the money (makes tax law) and he who writes the checks (spending authorization) makes the rules. Period. Full stop.

Now, other interested parties can come forth, make their case and negotiate. That's how it works. But if a bill raising the debt limit, regardless of what other conditions are contained therein, lands on the presidents desk and he decides to throw a tantrum and veto it, it is HE that is putting the "full faith and credit of the United States" at risk, not congress.

Here's the thing, McCarthy and the GOP can't even agree on a budget proposal, yet they expect the President to negotiate one. So they add conditions to a limit that is arbitrary.

It's a game that the President has said, clearly, that he won't play.

 

[Chobham]

Here's the thing, McCarthy and the GOP can't even agree on a budget proposal, yet they expect the President to negotiate one. So they add conditions to a limit that is arbitrary.

It's a game that the President has said, clearly, that he won't play.

They passed the fucking bill dude. That IS an agreement on their part.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

They passed the fucking bill dude. That IS an agreement on their part.

Exactly right. It was by no means certain but it happened. The ball is in Democrats court to negotiate. We already know at least one Democrat in the Senate is ready to come to the table.

 

[ll74]

They passed the fucking bill dude. That IS an agreement on their part.

With conditions...yes. That is an agreement for one party which they know the President won't agree to. In reality, it's a political move, not an agreement. They could have done this months ago, when there was time to negotiate...why didn't they?

Answer the fucking question - who created the debt ceiling?

 

[JohnEngelman]

The national debt is a problem because of Republican tax cuts for the rich.

In 1945 the Second World War ended. The national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) was 114%

During Jimmy Carter's last full year in office, 1980, this had declined to 32%. The gross national debt was $908 billion.

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/national-debt-by-year-compared-to-gdp-and-major-events-3306287

The national debt as a percentage of GDP had declined during the Korean War and the War in Vietnam.

During this time the top tax rate never got below 70%, and was often much higher.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

During his 1980 debate with President Carter Ronald Reagan said that he could cut taxes, raise military spending, and balance the budget by 1983 "if not sooner," without cutting popular domestic spending programs.

In 1983 the national debt was $1,377. This represented 37% of GDP.

During Reagan's eight years in office he cut the top tax rate to 28%. During his last full year in office the gross national debt was $2,602 billion. This represented 50% of GDP.

President Clinton raised taxes on the rich. During his eight years in office the national debt as a percentage of GDP declined from 61% to 55%.

George W. Bush cut taxes for the rich, while starting two expensive wars he could not win. Donald Trump cut taxes for the rich again, while again raising military spending. In 2020, during Trump's last full year in office, the per capita GDP had grown to 129%. In 2022, after two years of President Biden, this had declined to 123%.

Congressional Republicans are using the rise in the national debt, for which the GOP is responsible, as a reason to cut domestic spending programs that they never liked, but which are popular with the voters.

The voters have a different idea. For years popular opinion surveys have indicated majority support for a more progressive tax system.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pol...wxMS40LjAuMi41LjGYAQCgAQGwAQo&sclient=gws-wiz

 

[Chobham]

You keep repeating that mantra but taxes collected increased, substantially, after each of those tax cuts AND the portion payed by the top quintile increased as well. The problem is, and always has been, spending.

 

[Lazaran]

Nah he'll just lie and create another alt.

Of course BabyBoobs wouldn’t honor the bet.

That’s part of the beauty of it.

 

[Chobham]

With conditions...yes. That is an agreement for one party which they know the President won't agree to. In reality, it's a political move, not an agreement. They could have done this months ago, when there was time to negotiate...why didn't they?

Answer the fucking question - who created the debt ceiling?

Fuck the president, seriously, fuck'em. The debt ceiling will be reached somewhere between July and Sept. Plenty of time to negotiate.

In case you don't understand what's happening, Congress is gong back to the regular budget process. That means that EACH dept. of the government will have it's own separate spending authorization, no more omnibus spending bullshit. The debt limit increase set the framework and conditions under which congress AND the president will deal with those issues.

Congress sets the debt limit, I've already answered that question.................twice.

 

[JohnEngelman]

You keep repeating that mantra but taxes collected increased, substantially, after each of those tax cuts AND the portion payed by the top quintile increased as well. The problem is, and always has been, spending.

What matters is that Republican tax cuts for the rich are responsible for the rise in the national debt.

Republicans used to believe in balanced budgets. What happened to that.

This is the effect of tax cuts for the rich during the Reagan administration:

 

[ll74]

The national debt is a problem because of Republican tax cuts for the rich.

In 1945 the Second World War ended. The national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) was 114%

This is a dumb take. The problem is that average Americans oversimplify the budget, the debt, the debt ceiling and the deficit. They try to frame it around their own home budgets, which is dumb.

Republicans and Democrats have both contributed to the deficit and debt. The economic ebbs and flows have eased and exacerbated that from time to time....allowing it to be more and less of a political hit button issue.

The debt ceiling is an arbitrary limit on spending set by the folks who spend the money. They can set it much higher so it's not as stopping point, but they like to keep it at a level so they can use it for campaigns.