LW Has Turned Into a Misogynist Wasteland

[NoTalentHack]

I second Tilan’s suggestion to write the story from the “other man’s” point of view.

I wrote 2 LW stories from the other man’s POV (Office Wife and Intervention Wife). Both have the red H. I think that POV is more fun anyway, because I’m not a fan of melodrama. Of course neither story is that BTB nonsense. In both cases the cheaters thrive.

This is actually good advice, and I'd agree. imhapless published Bed, Breakfast, and Beyond this week, and, while it only has a 4.14 score at time of writing, that's still really good for a story where the wife is seduced into leaving her husband, especially when the husband isn't a cheater. I even wrote a comment on it that hasn't been added yet to the effect of how well he had taken a typical LW story, "rich, attractive, younger man sweeps wife off of feet and steals her from her unsuspecting husband," changed the POV to the younger man, and managed to have people commenting on how sweet and cute it was. If it had been from the husband's POV, I'm sure it would have done better scorewise, as a man who "had done nothing wrong except worked too hard had his wife stolen from him," so it was fun seeing it flipped around.

 

[Lifestyle66]

This is actually good advice, and I'd agree. imhapless published Bed, Breakfast, and Beyond this week, and, while it only has a 4.14 score at time of writing, that's still really good for a story where the wife is seduced into leaving her husband, especially when the husband isn't a cheater. I even wrote a comment on it that hasn't been added yet to the effect of how well he had taken a typical LW story, "rich, attractive, younger man sweeps wife off of feet and steals her from her unsuspecting husband," changed the POV to the younger man, and managed to have people commenting on how sweet and cute it was. If it had been from the husband's POV, I'm sure it would have done better scorewise, as a man who "had done nothing wrong except worked too hard had his wife stolen from him," so it was fun seeing it flipped around.

I've also noticed and mentioned in other threads in the AH; the cheater stories told from the other guy's POV seem to rate higher among the LW audience. Maybe that's due to moving the reader out of the husband/wife conflict where the usual cheating wife story either tries to justify her feelings and actions or forces the husband into a position of justifying his next steps.

I wrote my story "Lifestyle Ch. 13 - Single Swingers" from another guy's POV as he interacts with the swinger couple. I used the third party first-person POV, so the wife could independently (outside of her husband's influence) prove that she's never going to "cheat" on her husband outside of their agreed swinging activities. But it didn't do as well at 2.54 with 71 votes, probably because I'm still trying to justify the husband's and wife's attitudes in becoming swingers. It's a story which is still just about others have fun with sex.

Writing an LW cheating wife story from the lover's POV when saying "I got laid, and here's how I did it. Learn from my example!" might be what some of the trolls are looking for in LW. They want an instruction manual for "How to Be a Bull."

 

[SirBurnInside]

As we've discussed here, there are those in the LW readership you can't avoid if you post there, and they are very much into "Monogamy-only"!!!

That makes me laugh given the category clearly advertises it contains - Married extra-marital fun: Swinging, sharing & more...

Maybe they see the title Loving Wives and assume that means "perfect 1950's housewife lovingly cooking her doting husband his dinner, bringing him newspaper to read at the table and dutifully lying there in missionary position under the covers with the lights out at bed time"

You know, just like mummy and daddy didn't do...

 

[lc69hunter]

In a very generalized viewpoint, the main difference between the two main camps within LW, is that one group equates love with monogamy, and if you step out of the bounds of that, you didn't really love your spouse. And the other group does not necessarily equate the two, depending upon the scenario.

For me, it quite often depends upon the egregiousness of the offending party.

IRL, my wife and I felt that a random one-off was not a threat to the marriage or the relationship, but an affair or online romance was. It was our line.

 

[Lifestyle66]

That makes me laugh given the category clearly advertises it contains - Married extra-marital fun: Swinging, sharing & more...

Maybe they see the title Loving Wives and assume that means "perfect 1950's housewife lovingly cooking her doting husband his dinner, bringing him newspaper to read at the table and dutifully lying there in missionary position under the covers with the lights out at bed time"

You know, just like mummy and daddy didn't do...

In several of my swinger stories, I've pointed out the LW category description "Extra-marital FUN, swinging and more". But it seems some are still slow learners.

I have my next swinger series chapter in progress, where I'll try ONCE AGAIN to explain the differences between a faithful married couple having communication and trust issues, and a healthy swinger relationship with the attitude "it's JUST sex, not love, so get over it!"

I was prompted by the "Liberation; for Him or Her" stories (described above), where the wife is now using a swinger club to fix their marriage. So, I'm adding to my story how a swinger club CANNOT be used to fix a marriage.

In the end, I hope to project "Learn to communicate with your spouse, and swingers are not wrong, just different. So, find what's right for you."

I expect the usual slow-learning 1-bombers but aim for this story to rise to over a 3.0. (Managing my expectations and setting goals. LOL)

 

[Lifestyle66]

In a very generalized viewpoint, the main difference between the two main camps within LW, is that one group equates love with monogamy, and if you step out of the bounds of that, you didn't really love your spouse. And the other group does not necessarily equate the two, depending upon the scenario.

For me, it quite often depends upon the egregiousness of the offending party.

IRL, my wife and I felt that a random one-off was not a threat to the marriage or the relationship, but an affair or online romance was. It was our line.

In my current work-in-progress story about swingers, I have the MC husband explaining his marriage to a friend: "...We don’t have any emotional hangups between us to complicate it. I’m not fucking some other woman to balance some score between me and Jan. And I don’t say to any other woman ‘I love you.’ It’s just sex! Jan’s attitude when she’s done, telling a guy ‘Now go fetch me a glass of wine,’ is the same thing. She’s just using the guy’s stiff dick to get what she wants; power over him and a fun time.”

It's an uphill battle with some of these readers to explain that SEX is not the problem in marriages. It's the emotions some tie to it that causes their own problems.

 

[Grendelpuppy]

That makes me laugh given the category clearly advertises it contains - Married extra-marital fun: Swinging, sharing & more...

Maybe they see the title Loving Wives and assume that means "perfect 1950's housewife lovingly cooking her doting husband his dinner, bringing him newspaper to read at the table and dutifully lying there in missionary position under the covers with the lights out at bed time"

You know, just like mummy and daddy didn't do...

It is a bizarre to me as some cabal lurking in the gay male section to castigate authors about the evils of sodomy.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Hey! I just got a new comment on my "Lifestyle Ch. 14- Keeping Score" story (published in Feb):
*********************
by Anonymous user on 3 hours ago

Swingers are are a festering boil on the ass of healthy marriage. The entire lifestyle is comprised of so-called men who can't keep their wives satisfied and women whose pussies are even looser than their morals.
*********************

I'm guessing it's from someone here who read my posts above about my next story in the series.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Morality. I've difficulty using the term concerning swinging. If two consenting adults decide that swinging is the thing for them, then it becomes moral by definition. Unless you're of the sort to let society make such distinctions.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Morality. I've difficulty using the term concerning swinging. If two consenting adults decide that swinging is the thing for them, then it becomes moral by definition. Unless you're of the sort to let society make such distinctions.

Some "Anonymous" there (and here on this thread) is one of those "slow learners."

 

[SirBurnInside]

If it were up to some people out there we'd still be burning any women accused of being witches and stoning people for their lack of morality.

Funny how some people feel they have the right to tell others what is right and wrong and how to live based on their own beliefs, but scream blue murder if the same thing is done to them.

 

[Lifestyle66]

When Anonymous posted the comment: "
by Anonymous user on 3 hours ago

Swingers are are a festering boil on the ass of healthy marriage. ..."

I wonder if the moron realized that a HEALTHY MARRIAGE of swingers or not ... is STILL a HEALTHY marriage. Swingers don't go out to destroy healthy marriages. They look for other happy swingers, not the judgmental anonymous morons.

If the anonymous moron had problems in its marriage (for whatever reason), look in the mirror! It's within the marriage that the problems began. If a couple has a problem marriage, don't blame anyone outside the two of you! Others only come in to break up a marriage after the cracks are there!

 

[NoTalentHack]

When Anonymous posted the comment: "
by Anonymous user on 3 hours ago

Swingers are are a festering boil on the ass of healthy marriage. ..."

I wonder if the moron realized that a HEALTHY MARRIAGE of swingers or not ... is STILL a HEALTHY marriage. Swingers don't go out to destroy healthy marriages. They look for other happy swingers, not the judgmental anonymous morons.

If the anonymous moron had problems in its marriage (for whatever reason), look in the mirror! It's within the marriage that the problems began. If a couple has a problem marriage, don't blame anyone outside the two of you! Others only come in to break up a marriage after the cracks are there!

The only response I would have in defense of our uncharitable anonymous is this: in ideal circumstances, and now that swinger culture has had literally generations to mature, I would agree. But there are a LOT of guys commenting that were young in the 70s, and swinging was like disco back then: lots of people were doing it, and most of them were doing it badly. I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few are thinking of it in that light, of the kinda sleazy couple that weren't so much into ethical swinging as banging every married couple they could, regardless of the consequences to the marriages.

It's easy to forget how close the past is sometimes, you know? But not for the people that lived it. Yeah, they should probably shut the fuck up, but their lived experience is their lived experience. I'm not defending them being assholes, but I do have sympathy for some of them.

 

[Lifestyle66]

The only response I would have in defense of our uncharitable anonymous is this: in ideal circumstances, and now that swinger culture has had literally generations to mature, I would agree. But there are a LOT of guys commenting that were young in the 70s, and swinging was like disco back then: lots of people were doing it, and most of them were doing it badly. I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few are thinking of it in that light, of the kinda sleazy couple that weren't so much into ethical swinging as banging every married couple they could, regardless of the consequences to the marriages.

It's easy to forget how close the past is sometimes, you know? But not for the people that lived it. Yeah, they should probably shut the fuck up, but their lived experience is their lived experience. I'm not defending them being assholes, but I do have sympathy for some of them.

The morality those like anonymous are trying to pitch isn't an "old school" or even a historic type of morality.

Looking back at the "Roaring Twenties", imagine what your grandmother or great grandmother was doing! Or read the erotic writings of "The Pearl" (written and published in London for three years in the 1880's!)

No, their moral outrage is a modern imaginary utopia pushed on those who know no better.

I'm trying to write a GOOD story to get to both the "extra-marital FUN" crowd and the "monogamous-only crowd" in LW. I'm currently at about 8.2K words in a story which I anticipate to build to between 12-15K with swingers AND a monogamous-only couple.

I challenge the Anonymous poster reading this to create an account on LitE and message me to offer to be a Beta reader of this half-done story and give me constructive input as I write this BEFORE I publish it!

 

[SirBurnInside]

I'm pleasantly surprised to see that despite my story in LW sitting on a score of 2.78 it is still getting views nearly three weeks after it was published.

I know 'views' aren't the same as 'reads' but in the last 24 hours it added 249 views so despite the low rating people are still opening it which is encouraging, because if only a handful actually read and enjoy it I'll be happy with that.

It at least show that you don't have to take down your LW stories if the ratings are low due to the 1* bombers, as whilst you may not get the maximum numbers of readers possible, those searching tags will open up even the lowest scoring stories.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I'm pleasantly surprised to see that despite my story in LW sitting on a score of 2.78 it is still getting views nearly three weeks after it was published.

I know 'views' aren't the same as 'reads' but in the last 24 hours it added 249 views so despite the low rating people are still opening it which is encouraging, because if only a handful actually read and enjoy it I'll be happy with that.

It at least show that you don't have to take down your LW stories if the ratings are low due to the 1* bombers, as whilst you may not get the maximum numbers of readers possible, those searching tags will open up even the lowest scoring stories.

I just opened "Watching Amanda", and I'll read the 14.6K words today (not just skim).

The description is "Cuckold husband watches as his wife is fucked by young lover."

One word of advice/observation: I routinely browse the new entries to LW. I skipped over yours when it was published, because as soon as I see words like "Cuck", "Slut", or "Whore" in the description, I get a negative judgmental vibe from the author. (Those are the words used by the 1-bombing haters in LW.)

Minus that one word in the description, I would probably have read your story within a day or two of publication. So, ask yourself: "Did that one word serve any purpose in the description to attract more readers?"

 

[lc69hunter]

I just opened "Watching Amanda", and I'll read the 14.6K words today (not just skim).

The description is "Cuckold husband watches as his wife is fucked by young lover."

One word of advice/observation: I routinely browse the new entries to LW. I skipped over yours when it was published, because as soon as I see words like "Cuck", "Slut", or "Whore" in the description, I get a negative judgmental vibe from the author. (Those are the words used by the 1-bombing haters in LW.)

Minus that one word in the description, I would probably have read your story within a day or two of publication. So, ask yourself: "Did that one word serve any purpose in the description to attract more readers?"

I agree. I can enjoy a good sharing or cuckold type story, but the abusive words and actions will turn me off very quickly. They are not needed to make a good story.

 

[djrip]

I just opened "Watching Amanda", and I'll read the 14.6K words today (not just skim).

The description is "Cuckold husband watches as his wife is fucked by young lover."

One word of advice/observation: I routinely browse the new entries to LW. I skipped over yours when it was published, because as soon as I see words like "Cuck", "Slut", or "Whore" in the description, I get a negative judgmental vibe from the author. (Those are the words used by the 1-bombing haters in LW.)

Minus that one word in the description, I would probably have read your story within a day or two of publication. So, ask yourself: "Did that one word serve any purpose in the description to attract more readers?"

I'd say it depends of if the story emphasizes humiliation of the husband or not.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I'd say it depends of if the story emphasizes humiliation of the husband or not.

Agreed. That's partially why I do think that the true "cuck" stories belong better in Fetish, because what's shown in those is less about sharing than it is about the husband's humiliation kink. There's always going to be some overlap there, though, especially in the "it was my first time sharing her" types of stories.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I'd say it depends of if the story emphasizes humiliation of the husband or not.

I was just pointing out that the author should consider the choice of words in the title and description.

What are you trying to achieve? And are you proactively advertising a judgmental attitude? What was the purpose of that one word?

 

[SirBurnInside]

Like with a lot in my stories, there is much room for improvement when it comes to the short description I give to it when posting.

In truth, I didn't give it much thought by my overriding concern was letting any potential reader know the story involved a man into the cuckold lifestyle hence why I worded it as I did.

In future, when I do other stories in the various categories, I will for sure think longer about how I sum it up to attract readers as per the suggestions.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Like with a lot in my stories, there is much room for improvement when it comes to the short description I give to it when posting.

In truth, I didn't give it much thought by my overriding concern was letting any potential reader know the story involved a man into the cuckold lifestyle hence why I worded it as I did.

In future, when I do other stories in the various categories, I will for sure think longer about how I sum it up to attract readers as per the suggestions.

I just finished your story "Watching Amanda". I'll give it a 4 because it's not a BTB story and it is well written.

Now for the bad news: If you think this story is just "Extra-marital fun, sharing, or more" just because they say they are married and use the term husband a lot, I think you've failed to understand the categories. This reads more like a parody of a Loving Wife story.

This mature couple's relationship has evolved within the last few months to one of Dom/sub, with the wife taking pleasure in humiliating her husband and even ordering him to humiliate himself (ordered to send the pics of her). The story's constant refrain of humiliation is one of an S&M relationship. Just because they are married and he shares his wife doesn't negate the fact that she's the Sadist and he's the masochist. In S&M relationships where one is beaten with a cat-o-nine tails, the one receiving the beating can enjoy it. But it's still S&M.


In those LW stories which constantly refer to the white wife taking a BBC, commenters rightfully said it belongs in Interracial. And just starting a story saying a couple are swingers, if they go to a club and the rest of the story is the husband sucking and being fuck by other guys, it's not a swinger story. It would belong in Gay Male.

Notice that your latest story is about humiliation in the description and is in Fetish and doing MUCH better with the rating. "Watching Amanda" should have been in Fetish or BDSM, so the story is being punished for a "bait & switch" by saying she's a Loving Wife.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I'd say it depends of if the story emphasizes humiliation of the husband or not.

The word "cuckold" was the least of the issues. It goes so far with the repeated humiliation aspect of their relationship as to be more S&M. But it is well written, and I gave it a 4. It just belongs in a different category, due to the almost single-minded focus on the humiliation.

 

[lc69hunter]

The word "cuckold" was the least of the issues. It goes so far with the repeated humiliation aspect of their relationship as to be more S&M. But it is well written, and I gave it a 4. It just belongs in a different category, due to the almost single-minded focus on the humiliation.

I agree with @Lifestyle66 on this. Cuckolding and sharing rarely have the aspect of humiliation and an evil cunt of a wife. Those belong in Fetish or BDSM, and FLR's, and just have cuckolding as an offshoot. These things show up in current cuckolding stories because of a decade of porn depictions. In my younger days, I spent about seven years in the "lifestyle", (for want of a better term). I saw NO chastity devices or cages, the only humiliation being gentle teasing and humiliation by the wife, (except for creampies) and she loved him and generally was very protective of him and his feelings

 

[Lifestyle66]

In several of my swinger stories, I've pointed out the LW category description "Extra-marital FUN, swinging and more". But it seems some are still slow learners.

I have my next swinger series chapter in progress, where I'll try ONCE AGAIN to explain the differences between a faithful married couple having communication and trust issues, and a healthy swinger relationship with the attitude "it's JUST sex, not love, so get over it!"

I was prompted by the "Liberation; for Him or Her" stories (described above), where the wife is now using a swinger club to fix their marriage. So, I'm adding to my story how a swinger club CANNOT be used to fix a marriage.

In the end, I hope to project "Learn to communicate with your spouse, and swingers are not wrong, just different. So, find what's right for you."

I expect the usual slow-learning 1-bombers but aim for this story to rise to over a 3.0. (Managing my expectations and setting goals. LOL)

Well, my latest chapter of the Lifestyle series in Loving Wives posted last night (Lifestyle Ch. 15 - Unleashing), and true to form, the 1-bombers are having a field day with this one. It's now eleven hours later, and the story stands at 1.45 with 20 votes!!! So, setting my personal goal at 3.0 for this story might have been overreach.

But I'll be interested if I can get any comments from those "haters of misogynistic stories" crowd on what they think of these characters.