Religion & Politics

[gordo12]

Isn't this problematic? Doesn't it stack the deck in a way that is contrary to freedom of speech and artistic freedom?

On the one hand, it's OK for an author who has anti-religious views to write a story about characters who are burdened and oppressed by their religion, and to narrate a story of how they become sexually liberated from it.

On the other hand, it's NOT OK for an author with pro-religious views to write an erotic story about how following the teachings of the religion may be affirming or liberating to that character and give the character sexual happiness.

It seems to me that what's sauce for the goose must be sauce for the gander.

Many, many stories that are allowed here proselytize in one way or another. Why limit what people can proselytize about?

I sort of understand the site's policy about religious and political topics, but only sort of, and I don't agree with it, because I think it's too limiting. The fact of the matter is that religion and politics are such huge parts of people's everyday lives, AND both are so deeply intertwined with the subject of sexuality, that to ban them from having a role in erotic stories is incredibly and unreasonably limiting, in a way that, IMO, excessively limits artistic and erotic expression.

Funny you should mention that. There's been a debate with a Coolaid drinker over the last few days on another board.

Here's a portion of her initial post:

"Folks, the Bible is the inspired word of God. It was penned by men but the Author is Holy Spirit of God. God did NOT lose anything. Satan has been deceiving people since the time he deceived Eve in the garden. 'Did God really say...' Satan wants to put doubt in your mind and he has done a good job at it, as we can see by the number of non-believers. This is just another deception from the pit of hell. Look what the article says......."

It goes on ad nauseam for quite a while. Every answer she gives is based on the same crap. It's obvious someone has poured that crap into her head, and she doesn't know how to respond otherwise, never mind an erotic story. The non-believers she refers to are the people disagreeing with her, of which there were many.

Is it right that this kind of garbage is censored here? Maybe not fair but it is someone else's property.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Isn't this problematic? Doesn't it stack the deck in a way that is contrary to freedom of speech and artistic freedom?

On the one hand, it's OK for an author who has anti-religious views to write a story about characters who are burdened and oppressed by their religion, and to narrate a story of how they become sexually liberated from it.

On the other hand, it's NOT OK for an author with pro-religious views to write an erotic story about how following the teachings of the religion may be affirming or liberating to that character and give the character sexual happiness.

It seems to me that what's sauce for the goose must be sauce for the gander.

Many, many stories that are allowed here proselytize in one way or another. Why limit what people can proselytize about?

I sort of understand the site's policy about religious and political topics, but only sort of, and I don't agree with it, because I think it's too limiting. The fact of the matter is that religion and politics are such huge parts of people's everyday lives, AND both are so deeply intertwined with the subject of sexuality, that to ban them from having a role in erotic stories is incredibly and unreasonably limiting, in a way that, IMO, excessively limits artistic and erotic expression.

I don't know if this is right or not but I've always assumed that time religion rule basically serves two purposes.

1. To prevent missionary types posting Road to Damascus bait and switch stories. I.E. 2k words about how Monique is going to become a stripper to pay her bills then, just as she's about to walk on stage for the first time, the Angel of the Lord appearing and saying 'Don't do that' and solving all her problems.

2. To prevent stories which cross or skirt the line into religious hatred. The interracial category is already fairly dodgy for some of it's portrayals without going into 'Mwa-ha-ha my religion allows me to do this to you, the poor helpless (presumably) white woman'

More nuanced critiques of religion are probably okay.

I'd argue that atheists can proselytize as much as the religious. The difference is that most religions have strictures about porn and sexual activity. Presumably it's possible and permissible for a Christian to write a nice story about a couple who wait for marriage before having sex for them first time and for whom this is a positive experience. The more liberal might have no problem writing a chikka-boom scene at the end, but those are, in my experience, the ones who are less likely be proselytizing in the first time. Take the sex scene out and it's probably looks a lot more like it doesn't belong here.
Whereas the typical atheist will have no problem giving the audience what it came for in between lectures.

 

[ronde]

That's mild compared to the stuff I've written in my stories. You're fine.

It's the non-proselytizing that's important.

I totally agree. It's enough that the characters speak to each other about religion even to the point of attempting to convert them. That just makes for interesting characters. No story should ever speak directly to the reader.

 

[ElectricBlue]

The fact of the matter is that religion and politics are such huge parts of people's everyday lives, AND both are so deeply intertwined with the subject of sexuality, that to ban them from having a role in erotic stories is incredibly and unreasonably limiting, in a way that, IMO, excessively limits artistic and erotic expression.

I think the site does it to avoid shit storms, same as with politics. A subtle, thoughtful writer has no problems with the site's policy, because they've got something intelligent to say, and approach the topic with sensitivity and sensibility (for example, Bramblethorn, their post up above).

But it in my head, these topics and the "rights" that go along with them, often come down to, can someone explain to me the erotic element? Because it's Lit erotica, not Lit religiosa.

 

[gordo12]

I think the site does it to avoid shit storms, same as with politics. A subtle, thoughtful writer has no problems with the site's policy, because they've got something intelligent to say, and approach the topic with sensitivity and sensibility (for example, Bramblethorn, their post up above).

But it in my head, these topics and the "rights" that go along with them, often come down to, can someone explain to me the erotic element? Because it's Lit erotica, not Lit religiosa.

It's quite possible to write erotic stories while intertwining religion into them. I have several currently unpublished.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think the site does it to avoid shit storms, same as with politics. A subtle, thoughtful writer has no problems with the site's policy, because they've got something intelligent to say, and approach the topic with sensitivity and sensibility (for example, Bramblethorn, their post up above).

But it in my head, these topics and the "rights" that go along with them, often come down to, can someone explain to me the erotic element? Because it's Lit erotica, not Lit religiosa.

I suspect the policy is worded broadly and vaguely precisely to give them the discretion to reject stories that raise these problems. I haven't tried anything religious yet but I've got one in the works that incorporates religion, but certainly not in a way that one would call proselytizing.

 

[PennameWombat]

Two of my stories have had religious elements as fairly key items in the settings.

City of Angels has a key scene set in a church where a wild orgy occurs inside of the building and on the church grounds, the police show up and it makes the national news. It's set in 1963 in Los Angeles (thus, the title.) The orgy was engineered by the FMC hypnotizing the congregation (after arranging for all children to go get ice cream), who was an alien 'body snatcher' who'd taken over the body of a 23 year old woman who was a member of the congregation. She wanted to cause something 'wild' enough that'd get national news coverage so her separated mate (a male alien body snatcher) would suspect where she was and come to check it out, but she didn't want large numbers to get physically hurt (as opposed to their dignities being hurt), she worried that'd get too much police investigation. Although the specific church, the First Presleyterian Church of the Divine Pompadour, is, uh, fake, enough trappings make clear it's some sort of Christian sect. That sect makes the odd appearance in a few other stories, but generally only quick mentions.

Only comment specific to that scene, from Anonymous:

Very different from what I normally read. I liked it. The church scene was the most enjoyable. I like the way you think. Nothing is sacred and nothing is unacceptable.

My other story where religion is a key aspect is Ladonna's Quandary, where the title character is a deeply closeted lesbian married to a man and being pursued by another woman (who isn't fully out herself, as it's set in 1986). It's never mentioned, but anyone familiar will easily recognize Ladonna is practicing LDS (aka, Mormon, although her name is a blazing hint to that). The ultimate scene involves Janice making Ladonna keep her garments on while they fuck and engage in light bondage. One of my lower rated stories, but the only relevant comment is "took too long to get to the lesbian D&S." That's not wrong, per se, but much of the story is Janice (domme) breaking down Ladonna's resistance and encouraging her lesbian sub nature to break through. So whether it's that, or some other weaknesses, not entirely sure.

I have a few other characters who are church-going, but it's usually just background for them, even as it colors their behavior here and there. I don't really have plans to go deeper than these, if I ever get around to the intended sequel to the latter it'll continue to play on the Mormon environment. But I don't directly criticize or compliment the religion, just how it plays into the environment - which could possibly be taken as a criticism, I guess.

I've also used politics as background, but not much more than that.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It's quite possible to write erotic stories while intertwining religion into them. I have several currently unpublished.

Yes, of course you can, I'm more intrigued as to what the erotic elements arriving from religion are, per se. For me, being an atheist, there are none - or they're minor, since I don't do guilt and I don't do churches and what comes with them. That's my curiosity, of those who find religious elements erotic (if people do find such themes erotic). That's all it is, curiosity - it would never occur to me to write such themes.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Isn't this problematic? ...
On the one hand, it's OK for an author who has anti-religious views to write a story about characters who are burdened and oppressed by their religion, and to narrate a story of how they become sexually liberated from it.

On the other hand, it's NOT OK for an author with pro-religious views to write an erotic story about how following the teachings of the religion may be affirming or liberating to that character and give the character sexual happiness.

It seems to me that what's sauce for the goose must be sauce for the gander.

In principle, yes.
It should be possible for someone to write a story describing 'the joy of the freshly-shriven" and the presumably similar joy of coming together in a way approved of by the relevant deity. Which, by extension from the opposite, should be fine on Lit.

And unlike you, I think it would be accepted, if someone could and did write that. It's just that given the strictures of most religions, people almost never do, and that it's a very hard thing to describe.

And there's less likely to be a story there. Rebellion against religious or other rules, there's a story. Doing as you're supposed to and ending up with happy married sex? Not a story. You'd need some temptation to rebel against the rules, and then, the really hard bit, to convince a reader that sticking to the rules, waiting for marriage, whatever, was the more erotic choice.

Better choice, sure. More erotic? Tricky.

It's always harder to write the good guys. Not only does the devil have all the best tunes (I've just started watching Lucifer - the soundtrack is outstanding), but all the best tropes.

One reason Good Omens is an amazing book and series is that the angel Aziraphale is portrayed convincingly: a bit prim, superficially old-fashioned and slightly stuffy, but those are features of his character, not because he's on the side of Good. He's a very rare character, ditto Michael Sheen's ability to act him. The demon Crowley is also perfectly portrayed, but it's a far easier role.

I'm tempted to try writing such a story - inspired by a devout friend describing the naughty feeling of holding hands with her betrothed before they got married, and then eventually a wedding day and figuring out sex. It works as a romantic story, but making waiting erotic? Can tropes from edging and chastity kink stories get repurposed? Not sure.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I like my characters to have depth and breadth, resembling actual people in the real world.

If religion or politics have a legitimate role to play in the story or with character development, they will be present.

 

[SimonDoom]

Yes, of course you can, I'm more intrigued as to what the erotic elements arriving from religion are, per se. For me, being an atheist, there are none - or they're minor, since I don't do guilt and I don't do churches and what comes with them. That's my curiosity, of those who find religious elements erotic (if people do find such themes erotic). That's all it is, curiosity - it would never occur to me to write such themes.

The obvious one is that religion, or traditional religions at least, have many rules regarding sexual activity that make many activities forbidden or taboo. That creates tension, which can be erotic. This works differently for different readers. Some readers and writers find the element of taboo and the forbidden deliciously erotic, and they seek it in stories. I think you are less that way. You seem relatively unconflicted, and this element holds less appeal for you than it does for me, for instance. I wasn't raised religious, either, but I was raised with enough sense of inhibition and with the idea that "some things just aren't done" that this theme has a lot of appeal for me as an exploration of rebellion and self-liberation.

I enjoy the theme of personal, individual liberation appealing in erotica, and both politics and religion can play obviously antagonistic forces in stories with that theme.

Religion can provide a sense of delicious ironic tension. For instance, the theme of the minister who preaches one thing but practices another with the attractive choir director with whom he is not married. I'm writing a mom-son story in which the mom purports to be a devout church goer but quotes scripture to justify advancing a relationship with son. While my story dips into the absurd, I think on a broad level it states a fundamental truth: the sexual urge will not be denied, and we'll rationalize it any way we can.

I also think that religion and politics are worthy of exploration in erotica because sexuality is inherently and inevitably political and religious. Moreover, the landscape today is more complex than some people give it credit for. For example, I think there's a widespread assumption that associates "left/liberal" political and religious views with sexual liberation and "traditional/conservative" views with sexual repression, but that's not necessarily true, especially now. Polls indicate young people today are having less sex than before, despite so-called "hook up culture." My impression is that young people today live with many more rules about what one can and can't do than I did when I was young. Things were much more free-wheeling in the 70s and 80s, although the 80s was when things started to change. Today's climate, too, creates a backdrop of tension against which erotica can be explored.

 

[ElectricBlue]

The obvious one is that religion, or traditional religions at least, have many rules regarding sexual activity that make many activities forbidden or taboo. That creates tension, which can be erotic. This works differently for different readers. Some readers and writers find the element of taboo and the forbidden deliciously erotic, and they seek it in stories. I think you are less that way. You seem relatively unconflicted, and this element holds less appeal for you than it does for me, for instance. I wasn't raised religious, either, but I was raised with enough sense of inhibition and with the idea that "some things just aren't done" that this theme has a lot of appeal for me as an exploration of rebellion and self-liberation.

Good comments, ta.

As I say, it's such a distant thing for me personally that I'd never think, "It's time I wrote a religious theme into a story" - I'd think of a dozen other themes before ever doing that.

Having said that, though, I've written several leading ladies who could best be described as lapsed Catholics who might do a bit of guilt, and one who wears a small gold crucifix on a chain at her throat, and it's not to ward away vampires.

I think there's possibly a perverse side to me that says, lets corrupt your virginal devout daughter, although I've not written any such stories. My male characters, some of them, are more likely to stand with Robert Johnson at the cross road, and make a deal with the devil.

 

[SimonDoom]

Good comments, ta.

As I say, it's such a distant thing for me personally that I'd never think, "It's time I wrote a religious theme into a story" - I'd think of a dozen other themes before ever doing that.

Having said that, though, I've written several leading ladies who could best be described as lapsed Catholics who might do a bit of guilt, and one who wears a small gold crucifix on a chain at her throat, and it's not to ward away vampires.

I think there's possibly a perverse side to me that says, lets corrupt your virginal devout daughter, although I've not written any such stories. My male characters, some of them, are more likely to stand with Robert Johnson at the cross road, and make a deal with the devil.

I've read a lot of the Bible, especially but not only the King James version, and some portions of it I've read many times, not so much for its theological teaching as for its literary importance, since I studied a lot of English and American literature in school. So it's always fascinated me. I'm also fascinated by the way seemingly simple orthodox pronouncements are susceptible to interpretation and can lead people in completely different directions.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I've read a lot of the Bible, especially but not only the King James version, and some portions of it I've read many times, not so much for its theological teaching as for its literary importance, since I studied a lot of English and American literature in school. So it's always fascinated me. I'm also fascinated by the way seemingly simple orthodox pronouncements are susceptible to interpretation and can lead people in completely different directions.

I've tried to read the Bible a couple of times. I die in a ditch every time with all the begats. It's no wonder Bishop Usher needed the 4,500 years!

 

[Bramblethorn]

Polls indicate young people today are having less sex than before, despite so-called "hook up culture."

I'm not sure how much of that is about values and attitudes to sex, though, vs. how much is about young people being unable to afford a place of their own to live and fuck outside their parents' earshot.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm not sure how much of that is about values and attitudes to sex, though, vs. how much is about young people being unable to afford a place of their own to live and fuck outside their parents' earshot.

Possibly. But I have children in their 20s and I'm skeptical of the narrative "we don't have the same opportunity to be self-sufficient that you did." Where sex is concerned, if people really want it, they can find a way. That's always been true.

Another change that's occurred is the willingness of parents to allow their stay-at-home children to have partners stay the night, so I'm not sure how much of an impediment living at home is.

I realize there's a tendency to look at one's past with rose-colored glasses, but my conversations with my kids about their experiences lead me to believe that young people today must navigate a lot more "you must do this/you can't do that" than I did at the same age. I think people who entered adulthood in the 1970s and 1980s enjoyed the sweet spot of being told "you are adults and it's up to you to figure it out."

 

[Grendelpuppy]

So long as you don’t suggest that bitches who cheat on their abusive husbands shouldn’t be burnt, then you should be fine.

Em

Your going to love my newest story "WHO ARE THE BITCHS WHO GET BUTNED, if it passes moderation. It is the ultimate BTB story.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Your going to love my newest story "WHO ARE THE BITCHS WHO GET BUTNED, if it passes moderation. It is the ultimate BTB story.

From stuff you have said before, is it a parody?

Em

 

[Grendelpuppy]

From stuff you have said before, is it a parody?

Em

Absolutely!!!

This one as well:

https://literotica.com/s/the-case-of-the-vindictive-cuckold

 

[RetroFan]

Oddly enough, I got a negative comment the other day about a Fetish story series I published way back in 2014 and set in 1994 called 'Spoiled Princess Hates Camping'. The basic premise of the story is that a spoiled rich girl Madison from New York goes camping with her country relatives (no-nonsense aunt and uncle and three cousins two male and one female) from Pennsylvania in the New Jersey Pine Barrens, where Madison is completely out of her element. There the family meet a brash young Australian guy from Melbourne Australia and his best mate from Christchurch New Zealand, and it ends up with the Australian nailing Madison and the New Zealand guy nailing the cousin Kate.

Throughout the story an un-named male character with no dialogue appears, a 60-something Christian wowser who is referred to as 'The Christian Man', and he gets freaked out by various incidents involving the girls and the two guys from Down Under, such as the Australian putting on a pantomime villain style laugh in the woods to freak Madison about the Jersey Devil and the man thinking that homosexuals are in the area, running away while crossing himself and reciting the Lord's Prayer.

There is plenty that one could find offensive about 'Spoiled Princess Hates Camping' - but this reader was appalled that I was mocking a Christian man in the story and using him for cheap entertainment and laughs. Very strange indeed.

 

[ElectricBlue]

There is plenty that one could find offensive about 'Spoiled Princess Hates Camping' - but this reader was appalled that I was mocking a Christian man in the story and using him for cheap entertainment and laughs. Very strange indeed.

What's a fine Christian fellow doing reading smut on Lit, in Fetish, what's more? A fine example of moral hypocrisy, I'd have thought.

 

[ronde]

What's a fine Christian fellow doing reading smut on Lit, in Fetish, what's more? A fine example of moral hypocrisy, I'd have thought.

I have found that there are more than a few people who profess to be believers to anyone who will listen but maintain a secret life and that's not counting the TV evangelists.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I have found that there are more than a few people who profess to be believers to anyone who will listen but maintain a secret life and that's not counting the TV evangelists.

Precisely my point; hypocrites, the lot of them.

 

[gordo12]

I have found that there are more than a few people who profess to be believers to anyone who will listen but maintain a secret life and that's not counting the TV evangelists.

One thing my years in the financial industry taught me was when someone starts making a lot of noise about being Christian, I start checking to see if I've still got my wallet.

 

[XerXesXu]

Inspirational.

I've completed my next 750-word story: 'A Most Surreal Religious Experience."