The State of American Education.

[ll74]

You being a dumbass is your fault. I really don’t give a fuck if anyone agrees with me or not. I certainly disagree with most of your tripe.

Lol...sounds rough

Quit lying.

 

[icanhelp1]

Lol...sounds rough

Quit lying.

LOL

 

[ll74]

LOL

You didn't earn your position.

Sorry you need to blame someone else for it.

(Not really, I don't care)

Be an alpha male and accept your failure.

Right?

 

[Emerson40]

The problems with the US education system is many-faceted and has been going on for a long time. We’re talking decades.

One of the big ones of course is finances. It’s not only a lack of finances that is an issue, but it is a biggy. In times of economic downturns funding and budgets allocated to education are some of the ones that are usually slashed first, and funding is rarely restored or increased when economies improve. This results in less school staff and teachers, fewer programs and resources for students, and even deterioration of the school itself, as maintenance funds are just not there. All this, while costs per student are increasing, as well as the costs of running schools. State and federal governments along with local governments all have a stake in this, and all play a role in the under funding of schools and education.

Tied into this as well is teacher salaries. Although not every state has this issue , the majority of the states have seen teachers wages either decrease or remain stagnant at worst, or not increase at the rate of their similarly degreed counterparts. If the job don’t pay, their not gonna attract quality teachers.

And it’s not just about paying teachers more or throwing more money at a problem. How money is used in the education system is also a huge part of the problem. There are schools that have out of date libraries and technology, where hardware doesn’t support the current software, or the schools can’t afford the licenses for the software and platforms needed, but they have a state of the art football locker room, and field, and an oh-my-gawd-what-a-beautiful scoreboard. Of course the quarterback can’t read to a grade level four grades below his own.

You also have issues we’re funding has conditions tied to it, conditions imposed by a government who is not familiar with the region, or the needs specific to the area where the school resides.
In recent times you are also seeing conditions being placed on funding by government and those not involved in education, conditions motivated by political or religious beliefs. Funding conditional on not teaching accurate American history, as far as pilgrims and treatment of Indians, or slavery, for instance. Another is not educating students about evolution. Public educational funding should not be conditional on political or religious agendas, but has been.

Another issue is standardized testing. When funding has been tied to results of tests, you’ve seen schools lower standards in order to improve the appearance of results, or even outright lie about results, in order to obtain funds.
This is also led to teachers not having flexibility with the curriculum and instead having to ‘teach to the test’. Good test results being the ultimate goal, instead of quality education, and unfortunately test results don’t provide an accurate measure of overall learning or quality of curriculum. And because of this, students aren’t benefitting from learning about, or being exposed to methods of independent learning, which help them with comprehension, cognition, and memory.

Classroom sizes (number of students) as well as school closures are also big issues. Plenty of studies out there that demonstrate that smaller class sizes result in better student learning, especially in the K - 12 years.
Yes, there are usually limits on class sizes, but these too become a challenge when looking at accommodating budgetary constraints, or having to cut other programs like P.E. or the arts.
You also have situations where due to class sizes and numbers, students are being ‘passed’ onto the next grade for learning, instead of being held back or summer schooled. This results in almost half of students who actually graduate and receive a diploma not being able to competently read, comprehend, or solve math problems.

Some schools operate much the same as a mill…

Teacher tenure is also a hot-button issue. On one hand tenure brings experience, and protection from personal or politically motivated firing, and the ability to advocate for students and quality education. On the other hand tenure provides an environment where bad or ineffectual teachers are difficult to get rid of, or there is no pressure to perform or improve, and complacency sets in, and teaching standards are just maintained, at the barest minimum.

Parents are part of the problem as well. Many parents don’t know their kid’s teachers, or get involved in the school. Too many parents treat school like a daycare, or a place to assume some of their parental responsibilities. Learning doesn’t stop in the classroom, especially in the upper grades and in post-secondary school, but there are parents who don’t take interest to make sure homework is being done, or assisting with it if needed.

Another problem plaguing American schools is safety. The easy one to point out is school shootings, but let’s leave those for the multiple threads already covering the topic. Problems like bullying and sexual assault are serious problems occurring in elementary schools, and college and university campuses alike, and both have seen substantial increases - we’re talking multiples of 100% increases - over the last 15 to 20 years. When taking into account that the majority of assaults are not reported, numbers are staggering.

Politicians are aware of this as well, especially when you look at how over the last 20, 30 years there has been a shift and growing divide in how voters vote, with educated young people with college and post-graduate degrees voting Democrat versus those with less formal education voting Republican. Trump recognized this and even tried widening the divide, declaring “I love the poorly educated!” in his run towards becoming the GOP Presidential nominee. If one were to look at the ratio of poorly educated that make up his base of support, he definitely read the room well and played to his audience.

Verbose post I know, but really only the tip of the iceberg when looking at what it wrong with the American education system.

 

[icanhelp1]

You didn't earn your position.

Sorry you need to blame someone else for it.

(Not really, I don't care)

Be an alpha male and accept your failure.

Right?

LMFAO, a presumptuous dumbass at that.

 

[PaxNurgle]

The problems with the US education system is many-faceted and has been going on for a long time. We’re talking decades.

One of the big ones of course is finances. It’s not only a lack of finances that is an issue, but it is a biggy. In times of economic downturns funding and budgets allocated to education are some of the ones that are usually slashed first, and funding is rarely restored or increased when economies improve. This results in less school staff and teachers, fewer programs and resources for students, and even deterioration of the school itself, as maintenance funds are just not there. All this, while costs per student are increasing, as well as the costs of running schools. State and federal governments along with local governments all have a stake in this, and all play a role in the under funding of schools and education.

......

Verbose post I know, but really only the tip of the iceberg when looking at what it wrong with the American education system.

^your post, above should have been the original post of the thread. Well thought out, informative, and intelligent. Not someone spewing baseless paranoid ranting about "indoctrination" or "Marxism taught in schools" or other such nonsense, but rather, hitting on the real issues plaguing the American school system.

I would agree that standardized testing has caused far more problems than it has solved. Many schools simply focus on getting students to pass a test- rather than how to think critically and analytically.

In my opinion, if people are upset that schools are "Indoctrinating our kids" I actually think it means they are doing a good job. Not because they are "indoctrinating" kids, but rather, they are doing the opposite! They are teaching kids to think critically. And that means that kids are equipped to realize that the narrow, often bigoted religious and anti-scientific values their parents have tried to indoctrinate them with are, in many cases, deeply flawed.

You say, "Public educational funding should not be conditional on political or religious agendas, but has been." In other words, Icanhelp/Chobham(or whichever screen name he is using at the moment) wants public schools to do the exact thing he is criticizing them for- he wants public schools to teach HIS political and religious agenda.

 

[ll74]

LMFAO, a presumptuous dumbass at that.

You're the one who is lying.

If you lost your job it's because you're a dumbass.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

https://i.redd.it/84suf3p1qiea1.jpg

 

[icanhelp1]

You're the one who is lying.

If you lost your job it's because you're a dumbass.

Is that you FUZZYNUTS?

 

[ll74]

Is that you FUZZYNUTS?

Good deflection. Keep working on that.

I've never been anyone else.

 

[icanhelp1]

Good deflection. Keep working on that.

I've never been anyone else.

Neither have I,

You just can’t handle the fact that someone with better credentials, better test scores and more qualified can lose to a minority with less qualifications, much lower test scores. Affirmative action was racist just like you! It’s a form of reverse discrimination in its rawest form. I had one shot and that shot was taken from me and literally given away because some bleeding heart liberal bureaucrat played the racist card. The thing I didn’t do is cry in my beer. I pulled it together and found another career field.

 

[ll74]

Neither have I,

You just can’t handle the fact that someone with better credentials, better test scores and more qualified can lose to a minority with less qualifications, much lower test scores. Affirmative action was racist just like you! It’s a form of reverse discrimination in its rawest form. I had one shot and that shot was taken from me and literally given away because some bleeding heart liberal bureaucrat played the racist card. The thing I didn’t do and that’s cry in my beer. I pulled it together and found another career field.

You're kidding, right? You're the one claiming someone else kicked you out of your job only because of affirmative action.

I'm just calling you out because I know you're full of shit. You lost your job because your employer decided they made more money without you.

Sorry you feel that you need to blame it on the black peeps.

 

[icanhelp1]

You're kidding, right? You're the one claiming someone else kicked you out of your job only because of affirmative action.

I'm just calling you out because I know you're full of shit. You lost your job because your employer decided they made more money without you.

Sorry you feel that you need to blame it on the black peeps.

I never said someone kicked me out of my job, I said affirmative action kept me from getting my dream job. Your such a liar. I also never blamed it on black peeps you racist. They used the system and why not? My beef is and was with affirmative action which is racist and reverse discrimination.

 

[ll74]

I never said someone kicked me out of my job, I said affirmative action kept me from getting my dream job. Your such a liar. I also never blamed it on black peeps you racist. They used the system and why not? My beef is and was with affirmative action which is racist and reverse discrimination.

Lol....

Sorry...you didn't get the job because you weren't good enough and you want to blame someone else and those people are blacks and women.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[icanhelp1]

Lol....

Sorry...you didn't get the job because you weren't good enough and you want to blame someone else and those people are blacks and women.

Thanks for clarifying.

The big lie is affirmative action, you know it and I know it.

LOL

 

[ll74]

The big lie is affirmative action, you know it and I know it.

LOL

Affirmative action is needed because of assholes like you who blame it for their own shortcomings.

 

[DeluxAuto]

The big lie is affirmative action, you know it and I know it.

LOL

It's affirmative that they smartly hired the better candidate.

 

[icanhelp1]

Affirmative action is needed because of assholes like you who blame it for their own shortcomings.

You’re being purposely stupid. Then again maybe not, maybe you’re really that stupid and don’t know it. Let me eliminate any doubt, you’re really really stupid.

 

[ll74]

You’re being purposely stupid. Then again maybe not, maybe you’re really that stupid and don’t know it. Let me eliminate any doubt, you’re really really stupid.

You're literally blaming shit on affirmative action and then telling me it's my problem.

But sure....it's my fault

 

[ll74]

You’re being purposely stupid. Then again maybe not, maybe you’re really that stupid and don’t know it. Let me eliminate any doubt, you’re really really stupid.

Here's a fun fact that you need to know

You didn't get the job because you didn't deserve the job.

But keep telling others that it wasn't your fault...it makes you feel better.

I'm sure your SO likes it too.

 

[YDB95]

I don’t suppose you can prove it’s not happening.

No, I can't prove a negative. But the 1619 Project is about raising awareness of the ongoing influence of slavery on all of American history across the board, not just in schools.

Can’t understand why you’re so anti-American, being the full blown Marxist explains a lot. You have that elitist tinge.

I can always tell when I've got you on the ropes, Ican'thelpit, that's when you play the "Why do you hate America so much?" card. Perhaps you would like to explain what makes you think people who want to make our country a more equitable and fair place are "anti-American".

I put my two daughters through college we always talked about their course selections, about what they’re being taught, always reviewed their syllabuses and discussed career paths.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/schools-1619-project-curriculum-historical-errors

https://www.educationnext.org/1619-...s-adding-new-sizzle-slavery-significant-cost/

https://www.americanrevolutioninstitute.org/fatal-flaw-of-the-1619-project-curriculum/

https://dc.medill.northwestern.edu/...derick-county-public-schools-has-the-option/7

I got as far into your links as this: "73 percent of the surveyed school board members, 53 percent of who are located in the southern region, think that 1776 should remain America’s birth year, a year the contributors of the project want to change to 1619 to mark the first enslaved Africans arriving in the U.S." That is not what the 1619 project is after, nor has any comprehensive US history course ever started with 1776. My history class in high school began in earnest with 1607.

It is, incidentally, true that Native Americans were enslaved before the first African slaves were brought over. That omission is a fair criticism of the 1619 Project. Calling it "anti-American" or claiming it's intended to make white kids feel guilty is not.

What good is a degree in Black Studies? There are not enough jobs for Diversity Specialists for all the people who get degrees in Black Studies.

You're the one who brought it up, not me. My point was simply that the great majority of Black university students who you think don't belong in college are not majoring in Ethnic Studies, since there were only 500 such degrees granted in the entire country in 2020. I don't know or care what those 500 people were thinking. (Oh, and if you were anywhere near as knowledgeable of college life as you claim to be, you would know that most grads end up working in areas that have little or nothing to do with their major.)

A degree in Black Studies would be a blinking red light for most supervisors. Someone with that degree would look at American Society with attitudes of personal grievance and entitlement.

Certainly to people like you it would look that way.

In my first job as a computer programmer my computer shop hired a black programmer. It soon became obvious that he could not do his job, he did not try, and he did not care.

When I learned that the black programmer was earning twice what I was earning, I discussed the matter with our boss. Our boss told me, "When I was promoted to be the manager of this computer shop I was told that I would be evaluated in part by my ability to attract and keep black subordinates. I was also told that I was supposed to expect less from them."

I have no doubt that is how you remember it. But I don't believe for one second that your boss really said that.

If slavery is taught it should also be taught that blacks were not enslaved by whites. They were enslaved by other blacks and sold to whites.

That is taught. Just not in a way that absolves whites of all wrongdoing in the way you obviously are after.

I have read, although I no longer have the book, that Negro slaves in the United States usually lived longer and grew taller than free Negroes in sub Saharan Africa. This indicates better health.

Yes and no. The likely cause of the better health: the slave ship voyages were extremely grueling for the captives, who were chained together in poorly ventilated parts of the ship where they were given little to eat and forced to wallow in their own shit for weeks. Not at all surprisingly, a lot of them died en route. Today's Black Americans are descended from the hardiest few who survived that ordeal. Genetics being what they are, it makes perfect sense that they're healthier on average than the population at large of the poorest part of the world. It certainly does not indicate in any way that the slaves were treated remotely well in America, or that their descendents after the emancipation lived much better.

If black history is taught in K-12 schools it should also be taught that blacks have lower average intelligence than whites, and higher rates of crime and illegitimacy.

Exactly why do you want that, especially when you're always claiming not to be a racist? What on earth could be the value added of teaching that, besides giving racists an excuse to rationalize their bigotry?

It must be taught that black rates of crime and illegitimacy rose after 1963, when the civil rights legislation was signed, and the War on Poverty was declared.

As long as it is also taught that there are literally hundreds of other variables that contributed to that, starting with the tremendous racist white backlash against the civil rights movement.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Neither have I,

You just can’t handle the fact that someone with better credentials, better test scores and more qualified can lose to a minority with less qualifications, much lower test scores. Affirmative action was racist just like you! It’s a form of reverse discrimination in its rawest form. I had one shot and that shot was taken from me and literally given away because some bleeding heart liberal bureaucrat played the racist card. The thing I didn’t do is cry in my beer. I pulled it together and found another career field.

Can you prove a single one of those claims?

 

[Lazaran]

Can you prove a single one of those claims?

You can’t spell MANUfactuREd bullshit without MANURE.

ineedhelp1

 

[JohnEngelman]

Exactly why do you want that, especially when you're always claiming not to be a racist? What on earth could be the value added of teaching that, besides giving racists an excuse to rationalize their bigotry?

When did I claim to not be a racist? Anyone who criticizes the Negro race is called a racist. It does not matter that the criticisms are accurate. We are just not supposed to say anything bad about those people unless we blame ourselves for what we criticize. In other words, it is our fault that they tend to perform poorly in the class room and on mental aptitude tests. We force them to commit all those crimes, and to have all those illegitimate children that we are expected to support on welfare.

 

[JohnEngelman]

As long as it is also taught that there are literally hundreds of other variables that contributed to that, starting with the tremendous racist white backlash against the civil rights movement.

I am not surprised that there was backlash. As soon as we started passing civil rights laws they started throwing massive black ghetto riots. Their rates of crime and illegitimacy rose.